06-05-2020, 11:52 AM
(06-02-2020, 10:27 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:(06-02-2020, 09:11 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: Interesting points, Bob Butler 54. I recall a thread (but not the title) in the paleo 4T site which listed 4Ts for various countries. There were a handful of 4Ts which had wars, but that apparently were not Crisis wars. Perhaps a similar mechanism that like you described applied to those 4Ts.
Robert Hendrickson, Rector, Saint Philip’s Episcopal Church, Washington DC Wrote:This is an awful man, waving a book he hasn’t read, in front of a church he doesn’t attend, invoking laws he doesn’t understand, against fellow Americans he sees as enemies, wielding a military he dodged serving, to protect power he gained via accepting foreign interference, exploiting fear and anger he loves to stoke, after failing to address a pandemic he was warned about, and building it all on a bed of constant lies and childish inanity.
Over on the current event threads, I tried to work out a new Information Age pattern of what would happen if we went though a crisis generational line up without a trigger. A while ago I dropped that, and assumed the virus was the trigger. Perhaps it is a trigger light, that produces a crisis light or no crisis. Time will tell.
I do suspect that Trump will fit the pattern of the bad president that demonstrates that the old values don’t work anymore, akin to Buchanan and Hoover. This could well shift us firmly to the new values. If so, that will be crisis enough to traumatize the new silent generation, to have us reluctant to war again, to keep the cycles more or less as S&H saw them.
But I also see the Consciousness Revolution as transformational, as changing society as only crises used to. It was done then though protest and legislative change, not through a crisis war. It was not a religious revival as earlier awakenings were. It was far more about secular protest and politics. It was different from the prior awakenings.
If we had no crisis, if the generation after the civics was not traumatized, if the problems that were argued about by the red and the blue were left hanging there, I’m not sure what would happen. I was working towards the next group of prophets becoming the Green Generation, adapt ecological values, and the problems left unsolved by the nonexistent crisis could again be solved through protest and legislation, we could wind up with a new Information Age pattern. The transformation would take place in the awakening primarily through legislation.
But then along came COVUS. If not a crisis as spectacular as the US Civil War or World War II, it could be a sort of half crisis sufficient to make us sigh with relief after we solve it and generate a high.
When the COVID started to dominate, I saw the crisis issue being whether the virus was strong enough to force a scientific response. The election was to be a referendum on whether the politicians were expected to honor the science. Once the blues got in, they could do their whole agenda.
We then had the culture of racial police murders bringing in the possibility of culture change. Is enough enough? The referendum was on how to shift the culture of state approved killings into the police serving and protecting all.
On Maddow’s show tonight, the had the Episcopal bishop on, the head of the church that was used as a prop by Trump recently. He naturally has a moral and religious slant on things, being a bishop and all. The teachings of the Bible are to love one’s neighbor and to shun violence. He made a case that this was a moral crisis, a battle for the soul of the nation. It hardly mattered if you were Catholic, Protestant, Jew, Muslim or other, it was clear what was good and right.
Rachel didn’t have time to have an economist on, to talk about the recession going on depression which is also threating the nation. You might add that to your list.
I don’t know if that is crisis enough for you. At least all the issues line up fairly well. It hardly matters if you are looking for renewed respect for science, renewed respect for racial relations, a recovered economy or renewed morals, the new values are clearly for all of the above. And if the combination is not a full scale crisis by the standard of the Industrial Age, close enough. It will keep the next generation traumatized, the next turning sort of a high, and the cycles limping along still close to the classic S&H Industrial Age pattern.
If not, if COVID is not a real trigger, if there is no other trigger, if the next generation is not traumatized, it all becomes rather a muddle. I’m seeing our combined virus, police, moral and economic problems as quite enough crisis for me, though.
To paraphrase Dickens… “More? Oliver wants more?”
(06-05-2020, 11:40 AM)Isoko Wrote: Bob,
To be honest, you cannot blame Trump for the covid response as all of the Western governments offered initially the same response. Originally they wanted to go for herd immunity but decided on a quarantine (which I think will prove in the long run to be ineffective) at the last minute. So I think blaming Trump is not quite fair in this regards.
As for Biden, honestly I'd prefer Trump over him because Biden is just a boring old man who is losing his mind. At least with Trump he is entertaining with his tweets.You never know, the American electorate night also think the same ala the silent majority.
Biden is definitley losing his mind. They are propping the guy up for five minute spotlights, but I'm rather certain he will not last through 2024.
Politics aside, Trump seems completely unhinged at this point. The man just had military come and and gas a crowd of peaceful protestors, including a couple of priests, in order to get some clownish photo op. He's being called out by just about everyone and apparently is even losing big chunks of his evangelical support.
I'm feeling very confident that Trump unravels at some point and Joe Biden could sleepwalk to victory without showing his face. The kind of old fashioned beatdown we haven't seen in my lifetime.