(01-27-2017, 03:57 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:(01-27-2017, 02:55 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:(01-27-2017, 02:23 PM)taramarie Wrote:(01-27-2017, 08:23 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:I am curious. In what way do you see the alt right not being evil? This would include the likes of the KKK, neo nazis, white supremacists keep in mind. I am very curious as to what you think about that.(01-27-2017, 12:35 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: I no longer think liberals are evil. I am now exceedingly tolerant vis a vis social concerns / minority rights / etc. I no longer think globalism is all bad (it just needed reform). I no longer associate with Birchers, League of the South, Skousenites, etc, etc. I don't think it would be wise to fire most of the State Department. So many other things.
As far as I can tell, now you think the alt right is evil. That's not being tolerant; it's just redirecting your intolerances to a different group..
The term "alt-right" was fairly nebulous and basically referred to a grab-bag of political ideologies of the right that were loosely organized on the Internet in the 2000s-2010s. Not just various flavors of white supremacists, but monarchists, Paleocons, religious traditionalists, integralists, libertarians and anarcho-capitalists of various stripes, random kids on 4chan, nationalists, a bunch of different Russian bloggers, etc. Basically everyone who was neither a progressive nor a Republican. When Breitbart was talking about making Breitbart a forum for the AltRight, this is what he was referring to.
During and after the 2016 election, this name was rebranded (out of confusion/political purposes to tar populism with the Nazi brush) to mean specifically white supremacists, and nerdy media whore Richard Spencer welcomed the free publicity (in reality, his "rallies" attracted fewer attendees than the DC convention of grown men who like watching My Little Pony, and the KKK has maybe 3000 members in the entire country, small enough to fit in a single high school). But, because of this, people are now convinced there is a massive white supremacist movement in the country, ensconced in the White House, and taking orders from the Fascist Internationale based out of the Kremlin, when in reality there is simply a surge of populism in Western countries due to dissatisfaction with the status quo (some of it tied to immigration, some to deindustrialization, etc.).
But labeling it a new Axis of Evil sounds cooler.
I have no idea whether or not Duginism or its Western derivatives have had any uptake with you personally. In any case, the problem is not those few thousand complete whackos you alluded to. The problem is a much larger number of former (yes, I mean it, former) Conservatives who have embraced, either knowingly or unwittingly, elements of the Duginist program. That is crap. It is a wrong turn. It is a tiny step in the direction of a Pan movement. You seem to think it can't happen here or maybe you are a person who has to see something in retrospect to fully validate it. Imagine how different the past century might have been if people didn't take such a wait and see attitude about what Paul R. Johnson refers to as "The Monsters."
The Duginist program? Foundations of Geopolitics? I'm impressed, I didn't know you READ RUSSIAN, 'cause it ain't available in English. I certainly don't. Seriously, this is embarrassing. I mean, this is like John Birch Society Global Communist Conspiracy stuff. You have no evidence that Dugin is actually orchestrating anything anywhere, or that any of these different movements (Le Pen's FN, Fillon's desire for rapprochement with Russia, the Trump campaign, Brexit, etc.) have been in any way influenced by National Bolshevism, you've just taken a bunch of stuff you read on Wikipedia and cobbled together a narrative that reinforces your pre-existing fixation on the need for WWIII. You haven't actually changed, you've merely shifted the justifications you're using towards the same end.
I'm not saying "It Can't Happen Here", I'm saying that going on about "TRUMP IZ HITLER" is stupid, sloppy thinking. The NYT was against amnesty for illegal immigrants as late as 2000, Bill Clinton took plenty of harsh stances against violent crime and illegal immigration, Trump's whole campaign was just a less articulate reboot of the Buchanan one back in the 90s, that there is no evidence of his antisemitism, anti-LGBTQAIABCDEFG, or anything else. More violence was used AGAINST Trump supporters (see Chicago, San Jose, etc.) than has been used by them against others. There's no Nazi movement afoot, just a moral panic by people who are so used to pushing the Overton Window to the left that any movement in the opposite direction, however minor, is treated as an existential threat.