I Apologize to My Fellow Americans

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-28-2017, 08:34 AM)Galen Wrote:

(01-28-2017, 07:47 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-28-2017, 03:34 AM)Galen Wrote:

(01-27-2017, 06:30 PM)taramarie Wrote: and when i say infringe on others rights i mean other Americans rights. Say in the case of the religious baker who did not want to serve gays. That is what i mean. But dismiss me if you want. I know what i stand for.

A libertarian, other than Gary Johnson, would say that was his right to choose who he does business with.  I would say he is being stupid but again libertarians in general don't see any particular need to protect the stupid from themselves.  Customers can also choose to boycott this baker over the issue and libertarians wouldn't have any particular problem with that either.

Now, I would disagree that Gary Johnson is the only libertarian who is not a bigot.  It is possible to believe in the financial notion of unencumbered free markets and the political principle of small non-interfering government without being a bigot.  In this, I believe Galen should speak for himself.

You really don't understand do you?  Libertarianism recognizes the right of free association which also means that people have the right to choose who they don't associate with.  There is no double think involved here.  It is simply not the government's place to tell people who they may or may not associate with.  If people truly are bigoted then no amount of external force will change this.  Indeed, it will create resentment that will eventually express itself in a violent manner most likely.

I'm not particularly an expert in libertarianism. I guess I'll have to ask others on the forum who think of themselves as libertarian to confirm or deny Galen's assertion. Does libertarian thought necessarily demand the right to discriminate? Is bigotry an inherent aspect of libertarianism?

I do understand that forcing bigots to respect the rights and equality of others is a long slow tedious process. It will indeed create resentment. However, it is part of US culture to push the long slow tedious movement towards equality. Over the years, the United States has applied external force to the Confederates, the KKK, Hitler's Nazis, the segregationists of the mid 20th Century, those who believed in a cultural imperative to keep females in a inferior role, and more recently in those with irrational prejudiced against those with non-traditional gender relationships.

The bigots of any era will be able to convince themselves of their inherent superiority and their right to keep others in their place. Sometimes, the places the minorities belonged were in gas chambers or dangling from southern trees. Those who object to such hatred and bigotry have for centuries been applying 'external force' and have made tremendous changes. This generation's bigots seem unable to comprehend this history, which makes them no different from prior generations of bigots. As a fundamentalist cannot allow himself to comprehend evolution, a bigot will engage in double think to believe their own hatreds and prejudices are somehow different than what has come before.