05-23-2016, 07:51 AM
(05-23-2016, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:(05-22-2016, 05:57 PM)radind Wrote:(05-22-2016, 05:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:I don't believe Clinton's nice words. I can't see Christians supporting the killing of unborn babies. People's action are what is relevant , so I agree the issue is how we treat each other.(05-22-2016, 05:13 PM)radind Wrote:(05-22-2016, 05:02 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Hillary says love trumps hate, and that what we need in this country is more love and kindness. It is Hillary who stands for Christian values. Trump trashes them in his every statement and behavior. That's attacking Christianity far more than any slogan that he or any Republican religious right figure might utter. Who would Jesus insult in order to make himself look strong?We have a different impression of Clinton. In my opinion both Obama and Clinton are in the secular camp and both are politicians( who say lots of things that don't believe). I think that Trump is basically areligious .
The pressure for Christians to conform to majority secular dogma is coming from the secular camp. Trump is not a good man, it is just that I see the real threat to Christian values coming from the secular majority. It is understandable that those in the secular camp don't see any threat. They agree with the Obama/Clinton agenda.
I look at the quote in your signature, and I recall Hillary's words about love and kindness and love trumps hate, and it looks to me that it's Hillary that upholds Christian values. Anything else it seems is irrelevant. Forcing people to conform to religious authority has nothing to do with Christian values. It's the way we treat people that has to do with Christian values. Christian values are about love and kindness, the things Jesus taught; not about obedience to church authority or using issues like abortion and gay rights to divide people.
The intent of my objection to abortion is not to divide people, but I do think that abortion is wrong and un-Christian.
Obedience to church authority has no significance to me. I think that many of the problems with 'Christianity' comes from the large religious organizations where bureaucracies and political power abound. I do not belong to such religious organizations. In my view each one is responsible for his own views ( secular or religious).
But don't you think the opposition to abortion is orchestrated by the Catholic and fundamentalist Christian Church authorities?
Don't you think that a feminist candidate like Hillary can support a woman's right to choose, and still be genuinely interested in love and kindness? Why would you judge a person un-Christian if they disagree with you on abortion? They might be "good Christians" in many other ways.
I understand the objection to abortion, and I think different people in the "secular camp" would have different opinions on abortion. I think this issue should be dealt with through compromise. Make the abortion pill available and then limit abortions to the first trimester. Make adoption more available. I don't think Americans should make abortion the basis for political culture wars.
There are far more important issues about which compromise cannot be made so easily, especially our oligarchical and corrupt political and economic system, climate change and pollution, police behavior and our biased and misguided justice system, and foreign policy.
As I mentioned before, I have no use for any large Christian organizations and my views are my own. I think that the rights of the unborn are being ignored and don't see how supporter of abortion could be considered Christian.
There are many things that could be done to reduce abortion, but the death of the unborn babies remains.
There are other concerns( abortion is just a clear line of demarcation). It is easy to say compromise without recognising that religious liberty has no meaning for Christians in this secular country. Calling this a 'political culture war' assumes that Christian values have no meaning for the secular camp. It is closer to a religious war in effect.
… whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is just, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is commendable, if there is any excellence, if there is anything worthy of praise, think about these things. Phil 4:8 (ESV)