March 15 will be an important day.

[Kinser79]

(04-04-2017, 11:48 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(04-04-2017, 08:44 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would expect congress to leave such a loophole.  Congress Critters as a class are largely incompetent people.  As for my credibility, it seems to me that for someone who claims no special knowledge as to the nature of currency then you're not in a position to determine my credibility on the matter.  Not that you in particular finding me credible even matters....

It still stands to reason that unless Congress has revoked the right to issue instruments of non-debt, and the treasury at least at one time could issue such instruments then the treasury still has that power.  As such if your aim is to say that the Treasury cannot issue US Notes right now then you will be needing to find a public law passed by congress stopping them.  Any EO can be undone by an other EO naturally.

What sort of instrument, what sort of loophole, do you think exists?  Only a limited number of Greenbacks were authorized, and they were printed and spent to fight the Civil War.  Given inflation, even if the Treasury could print that amount again, it would not be enough to make a dent in the modern debt.  Silver Certificates are no longer authorized.  Now, just because every specific type of certificate you have mentioned can't be used, I don't know the history of US currency well enough to say the door isn't open for some other type of note that is uncovered by the modern debt limit.  I just know every example you've given is bogus.  I just figure that until somebody mentions what type of note could be used, there is no such type of note.  Otherwise, why would folks use such obviously incorrect examples?

Your best argument is that Congress critters are incompetent.  Well, I won't too much argue that point.  I'm not pleased with Congress critters either at this point.  However, this is an ever so generic argument that could be used to say there is a way to get around anything Congress does.  "Washington is incompetent" is a red Reaganesque unraveling meme.  It is commonly held by many red leaning folk.  It's a prejudice, a mildly vile stereotype, yet an important part of the modern red-blue divide.  Important, but not a proper authorization for printing notes.

So perhaps we're in values lock.  I don't believe Congress would accidentally give the power of the purse to the executive.  You do.  I do know Congress has played budget chicken before, and the executive hasn't yet started the printing presses without permission.  Trump is the sort of guy who might try it.  We'll see.

1.  Article 1, Section 8, Clause 5 of the US Constitution grants Congress the power to coin money.  In the case of US Notes the Treasury did so directly.

2.  Given that our issue is largely deflation driven I don't think inflation is an issue until such time as the economy starts to over heat, it isn't even close to that.  Its just now starting to move in a positive direction after nearly a decade of utter stagnation.

3.  My statement about Congress Critters and their general incompetence was in response to Rags proposing that they create a mechanism to control inflation wrt MMT.  I feel it prudent to point out that if they themselves cannot be trusted to control the taxing and spending to keep the right level of liquidity in the system, then any mechanism they might devise for that purpose would likewise be incapable.

4.  No it is not values lock.  If Congress at one point gave the power to release currency directly into the economy to the Treasury, then the Treasury still has that power unless Congress has passed a subsequent law revoking that power.  It is the same method by which (in Florida at any rate) stealing a horse is a capital crime but stealing a car is merely grand theft.

Old laws, loopholes and case law are all the realm of lawyers, and it is both very abstract and very real at the same time.

ETA: As to the AP. That is where the Fake News gets it fake news. CNN, MSDNC and etc are copies of a copy of a copy.