Music that represents its turning

[galaxy]

I've had this on my mind lately.

Everybody Wants To Rule The World by Tears For Fears is a very 3T song in its lyrics, for example.


Anyone have any others?

[Eric the Green]

The 2T is pretty much all I care about. Tommorrow Never Knows by The Beatles and Witchi Tai To by Everything is Everything are the greatest songs to get high by during the experience of the 2T. Quadrophenia and Lifehouse by Peter Townshend and The Who are excellent. Music to get high by also, but also to confront the struggles and missteps. Lifehouse includes most of the songs on Who's Next and at least three from Pete's solo album Who Came First, and other singles and album tracks.
http://philosopherswheel.com/ericrock.html

As for the 4T, I think none is more relevant nor more excellent than the song you can click on my signature line to enjoy. You can also start it from the beginning.

[pbrower2a]

I'll give you the classical works La Valse (Ravel), Le Sacre (Stravinsky), showing how messed up the world was, and Sibelius' Fourth Symphony for exposing how messed up the world was in the previous 3T was; Elgar's cello concerto expresses the post-WWII recognition of tragic, pointless losses of human life... and Gershwin's Concerto for Piano and Hindemith's Kleine Kammermusik as examples of how brash the same time could be.

In the last completed 4T, Shostakovich's brutal fourth symphony expresses the horror of totalitarianism (I can interpret it as readily antifascist as hostile to Stalinism); his Fifth shows the idea that after a great struggle the world can achieve a glorious new future (in view of where he composed it, the Marxist ideal of Communism), and his Seventh is titled the "Leningrad" symphony... for a good reason. For extreme  optimism near the end of WWII I offer Prokofiev's Fifth symphony, Copland's Appalachian Spring ballet score, and Bartok's Concerto for Orchestra and third piano concerto (paradoxically he was dying of leukemia, but he still had his hope). Classical composers could no longer write like that after the Holocaust and the nuclear attacks on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Nearly eighty years later we still live under that shadow, and Classical composers could no longer write with such optimism.

Maybe our reticence about a ferocious 4T reflects memories that some of us have assumed in learning from our elders.

[JasonBlack]

Song from the 2T/3T cusp. I can see why a lot of y'all aren't a fan of the idealist/reactive cuspers. This song is a good example of the narcissistic hedonism of a reactive...but with the preachy condescension of an idealist. Like...really? You were irresponsible and got knocked up and now you're...literally giving your father a lecture? Way to combine the worst of two generations 

(PS: this forum doesn't have a single good laugh emoticon? come on man! lmao)

[pbrower2a]

Madonna is a competent musician with a vile persona. Richard Wagner exemplified that, too.

Did you notice that the lead-in sounded much like music by Vivaldi only to morph into a techno-beat?

It is clear that Madonna exemplifies the Idealist type of extreme narcissism. In reality, blue-collar Boomers like the character that Madonna portrayed were always humbled quickly; she could get away with narcissistic rebellion because of her economic success telling people what they wanted to hear. "Papa, don't preach" -- but without the wedding ring, you are putting that baby up for adoption because you can't take care of it. That was the norm in blue-collar America: if necessary you learn the basic lessons the hard way if necessary. That's how the blue-collar working class operates. If a boy, get independence quickly (even if one is not economically ready for it) from Mommy and daddy, and if a daughter, get married early and have lots of children -- or at least that is how it used to be. That broke down because except for the skilled-labor part of the working class, whose sons typically get into a union apprenticeship and whose daughters expect a husband fitting that pattern, could only find work that does not bring a living, as in shopping malls, fast-food places, hotels and motels, and amusement parks (later casinos) as Big Business sent jobs overseas and the politicians endorsed that. The well-paying factory jobs disappeared.

I recall Howe and Strauss calling the Boom generation of trends -- but all of them negative. Boomers started out with few problems, but the tail end had much to be desired. Educational attainment weakened; drug use, alcoholism, and criminal offenses soared. Maybe some of the late-wave Boomers had the arrogance without the virtues to justify the arrogance. On the other side, some Boomers remained eternal teenagers, like Michael Jackson. Madonna seems to have taken care of herself better (well, she is 64), part of which is pacing herself. Michael Jackson burned himself out rather than recognizing that he can't operate 24/7, and died at age 50 because he could never leave the teenager pace. X got hit hard with rising rents and costs of college education while opportunities vanished. With so many people working longer, harder, and for low wages we could beat inflation back.

Children need genuine parents, and childhood must end before one can be competent at raising a child. Raising a child is not easy and never has been -- especially with the poverty that became the norm for so many people who had no cause to expect it.

[David Horn]

(09-10-2022, 09:54 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: (PS: this forum doesn't have a single good laugh emoticon? come on man! lmao)

No, but it does have

[JasonBlack]

I'm refreshed to see y'all agree with me on this one.

[pbrower2a]

(09-10-2022, 09:54 PM)JasonBlack Wrote: Song from the 2T/3T cusp. I can see why a lot of y'all aren't a fan of the idealist/reactive cuspers. This song is a good example of the narcissistic hedonism of a reactive...but with the preachy condescension of an idealist. Like...really? You were irresponsible and got knocked up and now you're...literally giving your father a lecture? Way to combine the worst of two generations 

(PS: this forum doesn't have a single good laugh emoticon? come on man! lmao)

After writing what I said... of course I despise Madonna's stage personality. She has talent and a solid work ethic. 

At least her persona is keeping the baby... although I endorse abortion rights, I still dislike abortion.  Then again, I don't like amputation, but there are circumstances under which such is a necessity, as is so with abortion.  I would try to talk someone out of an abortion for a trivial reason such as a means of holding onto a well-paying career and not putting it on hiatus. 

Narcissism is common in the entertainment industry as it isn't in, for example, manufacturing. Indeed working in some of the most debasing work around, public-contact jobs or domestic service jobs that require the crushing of any self-esteem and individuality, and perhaps any reasonable hope of improving one's lot in such work except by doing something else -- like working in a factory, where one is not obliged to smile frequently as an endorsement of personal misery. I can tell you about my experiences as a retail sales clerk in a department store after graduating from college... stagflation was on, and the sorts of jobs that I exp0ected to open didn't . I worked for a company that had people working for near-minimum-wage (indeed I got one pay raise solely because the minimum wage caught up with that employer's pay) in competition with each other for slight advantages on the job. The company had headquarters in Arkansas, and it was not Wal-Mart. This company broke people down, reminding them at every turn that they were expendable losers whose lives would be shattered if they quit and the insight that everyone is a thief if the opportunity arises, and if you get caught you will be prosecuted. Its ownership had the audacity to believe that its employment of anyone was an act of consummate charity instead of a mere financial transaction. 

Anyone vulnerable in any way to the shattering of self-esteem will be exploited economically and emotionally, whether by a pimp or a particularly-vile employer.    One is told that one is worthless and that one's survival is an act of charity by some rapacious exploiter. 

Somewhere between the extreme debasement of life working for a pathological employer in which one is constantly told that one barely deserves to live and the extreme narcissism of people exempt from economic competition must be a healthy optimum. We know what extreme narcissism does when it is Donald Trump or Jeffrey Epstein -- or numerous plutocrats and corporate bureaucrats who set rigid, low glass ceilings for everyone else so that nobody has a chance after ever doing genuine work. These people are little better than how I found the self-image slave-owning planters  who believed themselves the benefactors of their two-legged machinery. I came to the conclusion that if there ever were to be a revolution these people would be the first to go between the firing squad and the wall. (By the way -- should there ever be a revolution against an exploitative elite, then we will need a free-wheeling capitalist system, as a welfare state takes time to develop and needs a strong economy behind it to work, and because the bureaucratic elites of the old regime will have no way to live except in their old way, if mouthing some new 'revolutionary' slogans while being little changed).
 
We are out of balance. The class struggle is real, and even if the plutocrats and executives allow us some cute trinkets, empty entertainment, and an occasional trip to the casino or amusement park (whorehouse coming soon!) as breaks from the numbing boredom we are still the oppressed proletariat in mindless, joyless, loveless lives. 

Maybe we go back to the pattern of the 1950's in which people could start in the mail-room or on the assembly line, prove some competence and dedication, and get ahead in life.

[Eric the Green]

The heart of the Awakening was the awakening experiences that people had, with a large number of them among people of all ages concentrated in the summer of 1966 just when this song came out.

The Byrds are known to have created the "first psychedelic song" Eight Miles High, but it was only obliquely related to psychedelics, being about an airplane flight and when you touch down, whose elaborate musical passages were inspired by John Coltrane and Ravi Shankar. But this song 5D puts it right out there, at the right time, in original words and music, and it can be a psychedelic experience, or not; maybe just a spiritual awakening.

[JasonBlack]

3T 

[Eric the Green]

I feel so privileged to have come of age in a 2T rather than a 3T. The musical difference says it all

Not bad for the 3T tho The cops are hugely afraid of these dudes, they might have a gun, so they kill 'em. 4T too!

[JasonBlack]

(09-13-2022, 04:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I feel so privileged to have come of age in a 2T rather than a 3T. The musical difference says it all

Not bad for the 3T tho The cops are hugely afraid of these dudes, they might have a gun, so they kill 'em. 4T too!

I've been a degenerate fan of rap music since I was about 12 (the more violent, the better). I may think they are vile in terms of practice and character, but....I have never once believed that BLM didn't have a point lmao.

[JasonBlack]

early 2T (1966)

[pbrower2a]

(09-13-2022, 04:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I feel so privileged to have come of age in a 2T rather than a 3T. The musical difference says it all

Not bad for the 3T tho  The cops are hugely afraid of these dudes, they might have a gun, so they kill 'em. 4T too!

In the 2T for a Boom audience, popular musicians often put some didactic content into their creations. That ended in the late 1970's with disco, which is pure, unadulterated hedonism in music perfect for copulation and nothing else. (Does anyone have any positive thing to say about disco?)

Had I been born six years later -- well, there was Barack Obama, who is about as good a political leader as one can be if one is a Reactive. But at least he got to see the world and got a worthy perspective from that. He learned to respect more traditions than his potentially-confusing collage of a Midwestern white American mother and an African father. He got to see what did not work and what did, and he caught on before he was fully adult. He was smart enough and motivated enough to do the best possible with his intellectual prowess, which was to be an attorney. He was either going to be a rackets-busting DA or a no-nonsense "do the crime and do the time" judge, or be a uniquely-competent politician in elective office. He did not fully connect to the mainstream of slave-descended African-Americans until he married his wife.

Sure, he is squeaky-clean, but that is practical. 

What would I be as X? Probably the sort of person who thinks that the only book that can do one any good (aside from "How to Make the Sale", "How to Manage Your Finances", or "How to Avoid Legal and Marital Trouble") is a bank book. I would likely find that the best way to meet banal dreams is to sell used cars in a tote-the-note car lot. I would probably never discover classical music because I would recognize that the only cultural virtue is marketability.  Classical music might have intellectual appeal, but few people make a living by reaching for the stars. If I were a creative person in media I might see the merits of reality TV or schlock-jock radio.   

Sure, I would be wise enough to avoid legal problems that might drain my personal assets through legal costs and might be scared enough of  AIDS and divorce costs to avoid cheating. No drugs or drunk driving, and no philandering, though. 

If in a survival job I would be one of those able to hide his feelings while crying underneath, much like Charlie Chaplin's "Tramp" character. If you can't laugh, you will cry or you will want to kill someone. Crying about one's situation in a crude plutocracy is one way to get fired. Suffer as necessary, but always put on that big, bright "Happy to Serve You" smile even if you hate the schmucks and bastards making life miserable. If I had children I would tell them all about the dreary reality of capitalism while feigning consent. What else is possible? He who owns the gold makes the rules for the Common Man, and the only alternative is Stalinism, Maoism, or the Khmer Rouge. I'd likely be pragmatic about feminism and race... well, some things cost nothing.  

I doubt that I could convince any Millennial kids of the desirability of my compromises for anything other than survival. They would recognize neoliberal economics for what it is. Given a chance, they would turn to something less characteristic of the law of the jungle. Knowing that electronic entertainments are a trap I would rather that they get involved in music -- violin or video games? They get the violin. Piano, viola, or cello is OK. Musicians get connected to something nobler than mindless entertainment. Even those in high-school band (which is not at all individual except to meet responsibilities).  I'd tolerate the grinding drudgery of playing scales and etudes, but at some point one hears something delightful. That's worth it. OK, Albert Einstein didn't make a career as a violinist (reputedly he was quite good at it), but he chose a different direction.

[Eric the Green]

(09-14-2022, 12:05 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-13-2022, 04:00 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I feel so privileged to have come of age in a 2T rather than a 3T. The musical difference says it all

Not bad for the 3T tho  The cops are hugely afraid of these dudes, they might have a gun, so they kill 'em. 4T too!

In the 2T for a Boom audience, popular musicians often put some didactic content into their creations. That ended in the late 1970's with disco, which is pure, unadulterated hedonism in music perfect for copulation and nothing else. (Does anyone have any positive thing to say about disco?)

Not me. Some people in the T4T/Generations universe have done so.

The thing about the 2T popular music for the Boomer audience, especially in the 1963-1973 period, is not only didactic content or other lyrics, but the musicianship and the arrangements of the music were frequently top-notch. Not always, but often. Certainly it was in the music I like from the period, such as the 5D one above. The orchestras and the session musicians as well as the lead and bass guitarists and keyboard players heard in these records were as sensitive and talented as in the classical music genre or the big band era. Some of them actually came from the big bands, like those who created the Motown Sound. There was a large group that many artists called on in the LA area, and many others in the most-musical cities in the USA and elsewhere. The best pop music from this era is not to be missed.

http://philosopherswheel.com/ericrock.html

Just one such grammy-winning record I recently posted elsewhere is this escapist classic written by Fred Neil and performed excellently by singer-songwriter Harry Nilsson, a song very representative of the 2T-- especially as the theme music for the iconic oscar-winning movie Midnight Cowboy. You can scarecly find a more sensitive and evocative orchestral backing for Nilsson's amazing vocals and Neil's melody and lyrics.

[JasonBlack]

Early 2T. There is something weird about a piece that is supposed to be about nostalgia being sung by an 18 year old. It has a very idealist feel to it, but it sounds more like an older idealist singing about the 2T rather than a younger idealist in the 2T. Someone played in in the background while I was on a discord call, and immediately I thought "so this is how those boomers over on the S&H forum feel whenever we talk about the last 2T" 

Either way, I think I'm starting to see what you mean about the "real" 2T ending in the 70s. I actually like some of the music of the early 2T best because it combines the passion and idealism of the coming era with the unpretentious poise and modesty of the previous era. "It was about the music" has become a tired cliche at this point, but in this instance, I can see why people would say that. Just good, simple singing about a meaningful topic that speaks for itself. As we move into the 80s (the transition between the 2T and 3T), Gen X really did bring in a more "reactive" flavor, ushering in the age of the celebrity and music which became increasingly aggressive and hostile rather than optimistic and passionate.

[Eric the Green]

In this above and like many other cases, the singers seemed older than in fact in turns out that they were.

[JasonBlack]

(10-19-2022, 11:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: In this above and like many other cases, the singers seemed older than in fact in turns out that they were.

That's because, up to the 1970s, people sang with big, natural, full voices. This was true in country, in pop, in blues/soul, even in opera. From there, we see a gradual shift toward people trying harder and harder to emulate the sound of whiny teenagers. Homelanders have made this even worse, to the point where it's considered trendy to play up awkwardness and almost take pride in one's inability to hold normal, adult conversation.

[David Horn]

(10-19-2022, 03:53 PM)JasonBlack Wrote:

(10-19-2022, 11:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: In this above and like many other cases, the singers seemed older than in fact in turns out that they were.

That's because, up to the 1970s, people sang with big, natural, full voices. This was true in country, in pop, in blues/soul, even in opera. From there, we see a gradual shift toward people trying harder and harder to emulate the sound of whiny teenagers. Homelanders have made this even worse, to the point where it's considered trendy to play up awkwardness and almost take pride in one's inability to hold normal, adult conversation.

No, the sound of choice is reedy, not infantile.  It's singing and breathing at the same time, and intended to sound plaintiff.  Rememeber, we live in a time that has everyone on the couch, because we're all so stressed and mentally challenged.  Personally, it's OK on some songs and irritating on others.

[pbrower2a]

Crisis Era: Great Patriotic War/WWII. Shostakovich turned the Austrian-German symphonic tradition that included Beethoven, Bruckner, Brahms, and Mahler against the Nazi fascists in his Seventh "Leningrad" Symphony.





Much derided after the Second World War for bombastic excess, it fit the time.

Shostakovich is the closest thing to Beethoven in the 20th century. So his works are uneven; Beethoven did have his Wellington's Victory and Opus 49 piano sonatas, too. 

If it does not have a formal program it has one barely beneath the surface, being written under the most politically-charged time ever, the early successes of the Wehrmacht onslaught upon the Soviet Union. The opening theme suggests a peace-loving Soviet Union minding its own business and creating Socialist progress (ahem!) before a banal theme ("Ich gehe ins Maxim") from Lehar's operetta Merry Widow begins innocuously enough, becoming louder and darker, suggesting a growing menace that does worse and worse farther away from the Soviet peoples until it suggests the sheer brutality of Nazi tanks and dive bombers. Shostakovich adds the musical equivalent of agonized moans in case people don't get the message. The moans are not so blatant as they express horrors of the Nazis elsewhere, but as the music depicting aggression suggests increasing proximity, they also get louder. Ultimately this all stalls at Leningrad, the second-largest city of the Soviet Union in a horrific siege. 

Aside from the very Russian, balletic introductory and closing theme the first movement is a parody of the Austrian-German symphonic tradition; Soviet people maintain their humanity while the Nazis show none. Russia of course became a big player in classical music in the latter part of the 19th century, too. You didn't expect Shostakovich to neglect Tchaikovsky as part of the symphonic heritage, did you?

But with the stalling of the war at the gates of Leningrad along comes the famine and the shelling. The second movement develops into an unforgettable, ominous Dance of Death suggesting the medieval horrors of war, famine and plague (shelling!), with a powerful, and undeniably Russian (musical) resistance to the inexorable wave of the future that the Nazis saw themselves. Except for famine, the British had just experienced this in the Blitz, so they could relate to this.    

The third movement begins with a Bach-like chorale (the Nazis couldn't twist Bach as they could Wagner and even Beethoven) that intersperses with with string figurations. Victory will happen, and when it does the world will revert to a civilized one in which even the Germans relish peace. The Soviet peoples will return to the inevitable progress of Socialism in victory and peace. Even the very German -sounding music In the end the very German theme from Viennese operetta is transformed into something benign and even noble.

(You need not like Communism and especially Stalinism, let alone the brutality of the Red Army to hear this symphony as I do). 

But the struggle has but begun, and Nazi evil meets the inevitable resistance of the peoples of the Soviet Union (and others!) Shostakovich says with music what Sir Winston Churchill said would be done: that the corrosive evil that is Hitlerism would be purged completely from the Earth once and for all. Was Shostakovich doing with music what Churchill did with words? Such is my interpretation. 

This work is paradoxically a symphony derived from the German symphonic tradition turned against the perverts in the Reichskanzlei. the Oberkommando der Wehrmacht, the SS and Gestapo, and of course the administration of the KZ-lager. The Nazis had nothing musical as a response.