What was the last 1T like?

[JasonBlack]

Like most millennials, I clash a bit with boomers over a few issues, but at the same time, from what I do know about the immediate post war period...it's hard not to empathize a little. When you consider that societal values tend to spawn most intensely in a 2T, and that Civics tend to pass on values primarily from the Idealist midlifers around when they were growing up, it means not only strongly enforced conformity, but growing up with values originating 3 turnings (like 60-70 years) ago. 

So I guess the question is: what was it like back then? Did you like it better then? Better now? In what ways did you feel constrained?

[pbrower2a]

1 America was full of confident WWII veterans good at many thing -- like organizing almost anything material or social. To be sure, the war veterans did not all share the same experience in the war: most came back none the worse for wear, but some had problems from crippling to disfigurement to psychological hurt. Such is war.

2. Americans were building big to meet unmet needs, but with much more caution about finances. Loans depended upon savings. People were encouraged to buy modest houses and cars on credit, but not to furnish houses lavishly or go on long trips. Loans were cheap for housing due to the VA loans, but big-ticket furnishings bought on credit came with heavy interest payments through a finance company. It was wise to save for a sofa or even a refrigerator. Layaway was a commonplace way of arranging to pay now to get later (it may have been effectively a no-interest loan to a merchant, but it was safer than risking repossession.

3. The difference between management and worker pay was perhaps as low as ever. Most executives had worked on an assembly line or in the mail room, so they might know what life was like. Contrast the situation today, when executives might make a thousand times as much as the lowest-paid worker at a plant.

4. The factory was the most reliable means out of poverty for those of average education by the standard of the time. Still, with GI benefits a recent GI might be able to attend college cheaply. Liberal-arts education paid off about as well as technical education because most problems in industry were questions of human relations... and not technical.

5. Working women were largely members of disadvantaged minority groups (blacks or Hispanics, often as "domestics"; in San Diego in 1951, half of the black female high school graduates expected careers in domestic work), widows; lesbians very much in the closet who were never going to marry; young women working in a place in which they might find a husband as a meal-ticket); women married to questionable husbands such as alcoholics and gamblers; wives of small-business owners -- including farmers; wives of men going through law or medical school; or wives of men starting out in sales on a purely commission basis (in the first couple of years one starves at such work). To be sure there were female professionals in various activities who had held their jobs since the 1920's, but young women were not getting jobs in such fields as scientific research. Women were being hired in low-paying professions such as social work, nursing, and teaching in the female "ghetto".

6. Educational standards were high in part because talented women were more likely to become teachers.

7. Race relations ranged from indifference to hostility. "Jim Crow" was still the ruler of "Ku Kluxistan". Up North, redlining ensured that blacks would be consigned to overpriced, substandard housing. There was some controversy about Filipina, Japanese, and later Korean war brides, but much less than involving black people and white people "race-mixing". White and Hispanic? If it wasn't obvious it was accepted.

8. Divorce still had stigma. There was no Pill, so philandering posed the risk of an unwelcome child... and a divorce.

9. Science and technology were beloved as a source of economic miracles.

10. The Red Scare was on. Homosexuals were seen as perverts worthy of persecution. Atheism was suspect, as godlessness was strongly associated with Communism.

11. Small towns and small business still thrived. Note well, though: the Silent were founding few businesses other than professional practices. They were not (unless "ethnic") founding restaurants; they were not starting stores, banks, or manufacturing plants. The Lost had done well enough at that as faute a mieux.

12. Far fewer choices were available in entertainment. Burlesque was dying. Cinematic releases had to meet a strict code. Radio was still AM only, but one could listen to very different programs at night. Television didn't become readily available until about 1949, and then everything was VHF channels 2-13. How many of those one got depended upon what city one lived in. How many channels?

Seven in New York City and Greater Los Angeles. Buffalo got that many because it is close to Toronto.
Six in Seattle-Tacoma and Dallas-Fort Worth after the two cities' markets consolidated.
Five in San Francisco, Phoenix, Chicago, St. Louis, Minneapolis-St. Paul, Denver, Portland (Oregon), and San Diego (but three of those would be broadcasting in Spanish)
Four in Boston, Philadelphia, Washington, Pittsburgh, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, , Detroit, Milwaukee, Memphis, Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, San Antonio, Tucson, and Sacramento
Three in Albany, Rochester, Cleveland, Columbus (Ohio),  Omaha, and Baltimore
Two in Toledo, Lansing, and Dayton
One in Austin (Texas) and San Jose...

If you lived near Fresno, Bakersfield, South Bend, or Fort Wayne you were out of luck. Or supremely lucky if you considered television the "idiot screen".

13. Cheap paperback books had become commonplace. LP records were supplanting costly "78's".

14. The Interstate Highway v system had yet to fully supplant the dangerous two-lane Blood Alleys between cities except where there were early toll expressways.

15. Polio was a dreaded part of life early but practically exterminated late in the 1T.

16. Pop music was best described as "unchallenging". It started to differentiate in the 1950's. The youth trend was often whimsical, reflecting Silent tastes.

17. The most powerful distinction in social class was mostly in taste and formal education, and not as now between wealth and either deprivation and debt. Contrast the bus driver "Ralph Kramden" with the engineer "Ward Cleaver".

18. Real estate went from very expensive (little new housing was built during the Great Depression or World War II) to relatively cheap. (Look at how things are today; relatively little low-cost housing has been built since the 1990's).

[Eric the Green]

(03-16-2022, 12:11 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: Like most millennials, I clash a bit with boomers over a few issues, but at the same time, from what I do know about the immediate post war period...it's hard not to empathize a little. When you consider that societal values tend to spawn most intensely in a 2T, and that Civics tend to pass on values primarily from the Idealist midlifers around when they were growing up, it means not only strongly enforced conformity, but growing up with values originating 3 turnings (like 60-70 years) ago. 

So I guess the question is: what was it like back then? Did you like it better then? Better now? In what ways did you feel constrained?

Good question. I guess my opinion would be pretty obvious. But these days I have a bit of nostalgia for those 1T times; there was a certain stability and reliability about those days, simpler and easy to understand. These days, in our current 4T, so much that is new bewilders me, and I don't know the culture here in the USA any better than someone from Russia or even Mars, unless it's the older stuff. And the constant social and tech changes get to me, and the tendency to prefer virtual life to real life disturbs me. I don't think I like the current times any better than the 1T time. We're even supposed to be able to make important and beneficial world and institutional changes in a 4T, and that's still being blocked after 40 years of stagnation. These times are downright infuriating, and we are all at severe risk. At least in the 1T, the times were a drag, but they were comfortable, at least if you were a white and middle class young guy. Although, come to think of it, the nuclear cloud was darkening over our heads in the 1T, and that cast a shadow.

But I so much preferred the 2T times, and the early 3T times, to the 1T time. I did feel stifled to an extent during the 1T, and I was occasionally pilloried for being not the macho man type. Only certain kinds of people were accepted then, and others either were put into the closet or afraid to be their real selves. The 2T was very liberating. People burst forth with new life and could let things flow. The pop culture was great, so much better than either today or during the 1T time, and life and the people you met were more interesting than before. I felt a part of something going on that was bigger. Real genuine concerns were raised and futures were envisioned. From Oct.1962 to Sept.2001, peace on earth seemed to be a developing trend.

In the 1T, the horizons of our imagination were extremely limited about what we could aspire to or learn about. The stiff macho image of male pop stars and other phony straight types in both sexes was very noticeable and unattractive, just as the contrast between extreme sexual party pop culture and sexual suppression is so noticeable in these times and in the late 3T. In the 2T times, the pop culture was incredibly rich and genuine, beyond anything I could have imagined before it happened, and it made me feel those were my times. Later on in the 2T, I also felt some pressure to be more liberated than I was, and some people wanted from me more than I was often willing or able to accept or allow. In the 1T there was pressure to conform; in the 2T there was pressure to be groovy, hang loose and be wild. But on the whole, of course, I'd live in a 2T and would rather stay there.

[JasonBlack]

Quote:But these days I have a bit of nostalgia for those 1T times; there was a certain stability and reliability about those days, simpler and easy to understand.

I think there is a tendency for Idealists to underappreciate the structure and sense of community of their youth, while there is a tendency for Civics to underappreciate the individualism of their youth. My hope for this 4T is that we find a way to return to normalcy without crushing so much individualistic expression in the process.

[David Horn]

(03-16-2022, 12:11 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: Like most millennials, I clash a bit with boomers over a few issues, but at the same time, from what I do know about the immediate post war period...it's hard not to empathize a little. When you consider that societal values tend to spawn most intensely in a 2T, and that Civics tend to pass on values primarily from the Idealist midlifers around when they were growing up, it means not only strongly enforced conformity, but growing up with values originating 3 turnings (like 60-70 years) ago. 

So I guess the question is: what was it like back then? Did you like it better then? Better now? In what ways did you feel constrained?

I noted Eric's response to this, and share much of it.  I'll try to stick to the 1T.

It was safe and wide open at the same time.  Even as a preteen, I could leave home on a sunny summer morning, and not be expected back before lunch; leave again and return for dinner.  Where I went and what I did was pretty much on the honor system, though stay at home moms all tended to watch-out for children in general.  On the other hand, by my teen years, I noted the lack of openness.  Sex? Sh-h-h-h, not discussed except as a guide to how babies were made -- and none to graphically.  We had many girls get pregnant due to lack of what to do to prevent it, and lack of available birth control in any case.  TV, radio and recorded music were clean as a whistle.  Too sanitary; too boring!

[tg63]

I think what's missing in some of these comments is that it really depended on who & where you were. If you were part of what was considered the majority, it was good times. But if you weren't - think of black kids growing up in Mississippi or gay kids growing up pretty much anywhere - it was a very different story.
Who will be the disaffected this time around? I'm thinking of people who have had a few generations of success working in manufacturing or oil& gas, who aren't tech-literate, & who have been able to have a comfortable standard of living. I don't see them doing too well in the coming 1T.

[Eric the Green]

(03-16-2022, 11:32 AM)tg63 Wrote: I think what's missing in some of these comments is that it really depended on who & where you were. If you were part of what was considered the majority, it was good times. But if you weren't - think of black kids growing up in Mississippi or gay kids growing up pretty much anywhere - it was a very different story.
Who will be the disaffected this time around? I'm thinking of people who have had a few generations of success working in manufacturing or oil& gas, who aren't tech-literate, & who have been able to have a comfortable standard of living. I don't see them doing too well in the coming 1T.

Yes, I alluded to this, and it's getting worse now in some red states like Florida, Texas, Idaho, Missouri. These Republicans have restarted the culture wars in a big way, actually threatening the lives of those who care for transgender children and outlawing teachings about LGBTQ people in schools, not to mention banning books that teach about the past harmful behavior by the USA toward blacks and others. They are also pushing the abortion issue hard, which has always been Topic A in the culture wars.

Will the red states be allowed to recreate the conditions that existed in the previous 4T and 1T? Republicans (with frequent Democratic Party compliance) have already created the most unequal and impoverished developed nation in the world over the last 40 years of neoliberal free-market trickle-down economics ideology in power. Policies that help people be economically and socially mobile have dried up over this time, and the 4T is supposed to be a time when this is remedied to some extent. One or two senators have blocked the recent proposal that would make a start toward this, and toward fair taxation to implement this without more debt.

[JasonBlack]

(03-16-2022, 11:03 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-16-2022, 12:11 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: Like most millennials, I clash a bit with boomers over a few issues, but at the same time, from what I do know about the immediate post war period...it's hard not to empathize a little. When you consider that societal values tend to spawn most intensely in a 2T, and that Civics tend to pass on values primarily from the Idealist midlifers around when they were growing up, it means not only strongly enforced conformity, but growing up with values originating 3 turnings (like 60-70 years) ago. 

So I guess the question is: what was it like back then? Did you like it better then? Better now? In what ways did you feel constrained?

I noted Eric's response to this, and share much of it.  I'll try to stick to the 1T.

It was safe and wide open at the same time.  Even as a preteen, I could leave home on a sunny summer morning, and not be expected back before lunch; leave again and return for dinner.  Where I went and what I did was pretty much on the honor system, though stay at home moms all tended to watch-out for children in general.  On the other hand, by my teen years, I noted the lack of openness.  Sex? Sh-h-h-h, not discussed except as a guide to how babies were made -- and none to graphically.  We had many girls get pregnant due to lack of what to do to prevent it, and lack of available birth control in any case.  TV, radio and recorded music were clean as a whistle.  Too sanitary; too boring!

And so began the cycle of parenting troubles of which Gen X was the recipient. This is an interesting point from my perspective, because it means we need to take some of the blame off of boomers and place in onto the Silent and GI for not preparing young boomers of childbearing years with the tools to handle things responsibly. As it takes a village to raise a child (one of the few things HRC said which I wholeheartedly agree with), so too must the village as a whole be blamed when negligence in child rearing occurs.

[Eric the Green]

(03-16-2022, 03:03 PM)JasonBlack Wrote:

(03-16-2022, 11:03 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-16-2022, 12:11 AM)JasonBlack Wrote: Like most millennials, I clash a bit with boomers over a few issues, but at the same time, from what I do know about the immediate post war period...it's hard not to empathize a little. When you consider that societal values tend to spawn most intensely in a 2T, and that Civics tend to pass on values primarily from the Idealist midlifers around when they were growing up, it means not only strongly enforced conformity, but growing up with values originating 3 turnings (like 60-70 years) ago. 

So I guess the question is: what was it like back then? Did you like it better then? Better now? In what ways did you feel constrained?

I noted Eric's response to this, and share much of it.  I'll try to stick to the 1T.

It was safe and wide open at the same time.  Even as a preteen, I could leave home on a sunny summer morning, and not be expected back before lunch; leave again and return for dinner.  Where I went and what I did was pretty much on the honor system, though stay at home moms all tended to watch-out for children in general.  On the other hand, by my teen years, I noted the lack of openness.  Sex? Sh-h-h-h, not discussed except as a guide to how babies were made -- and none to graphically.  We had many girls get pregnant due to lack of what to do to prevent it, and lack of available birth control in any case.  TV, radio and recorded music were clean as a whistle.  Too sanitary; too boring!

And so began the cycle of parenting troubles of which Gen X was the recipient. This is an interesting point from my perspective, because it means we need to take some of the blame off of boomers and place in onto the Silent and GI for not preparing young boomers of childbearing years with the tools to handle things responsibly. As it takes a village to raise a child (one of the few things HRC said which I wholeheartedly agree with), so too must the village as a whole be blamed when negligence in child rearing occurs.

Since the pill and greater openness arrived at least by the mid-1960s, what David mentioned about pregnancy and birth control applies most to the older cohort of boomers such as himself who were teenagers during the late 1T, as well as to Silents and GIs before them. Even the mid-range boomers like me who reached their teen years in the 2T and then child-bearing and marriage age soon after (although I myself did not do those) had more advantages in these regards. And once the 2T started, the boring music, TV and radio went away in a flash. In spite of growing up in the late 1T, the oldest boomers however emerged as better educated, more optimistic, and more "well-bred" and "well behaved" and less prone to youth problems than the younger ones, and the best of them were good leaders.