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(11-30-2020, 11:04 PM)Einzige Wrote: (11-30-2020, 10:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Einzige Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:39 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:06 PM)Einzige Wrote: Yes, because voting for an eighty year old Irish Catholic and his police informant Vice Presidential nominee will magically cause America to change from being an exploitative capitalist hyperpower.
The Republicans and the Democrats are functionally interchangeable. It was, for example, Bill Clinton who signed the Statist, totalitarian apparatus of Immigration and Customs Enforcement into being, and Obama who paved the way for Trump's camps by being the Deporter-in-Chief.
Show me a country that functions as a country without immigration laws and their enforcement. Obama had a choice and he chose to be as close to an American President as you could be or get away with politically because he understood where we were at as a nation at the time and he understood that he needed the wealth of an entire nation to bank on and borrow against at the time. The moderates are more or less interchangeable which is why the moderates are more or less on their way out and becoming extinct.
I do not care how other countries function, for I aim at the abolition of all countries and all borders. Thank you though for your acknowledging that Obama was just another conservative bourgeois hack.
He was probably the best Liberal bourgeois hack that America has seen in office to this point. I think Hollywood should have gave him an Oscar to go along with his Noble Peace Prize.
Left-liberalism in the United States- social liberalism or social democracy in Europe - is just a way of defending certain segments of Capital. And Obama wasn't even particularly liberal in American historical and cultural terms.
You believe that he's far more radical than he let on. I'm telling you that he was as conservative as he was in office. Certainly much more conservative than right-wingers like Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford.
American's are all conservatives at the core when it comes to survival and protecting whatever it is that we directly associate with our way of life. Obama is no different than any other American in that regard. He's lived off racism and directly benefited from racism his entire life. His wife is no better than him in that regard. She's just prettier. Trump represented a direct threat to the end of the Liberal/Democratic way of life and represented a change to the way that the government conducts it's business.
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(11-30-2020, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 11:04 PM)Einzige Wrote: (11-30-2020, 10:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Einzige Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:39 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Show me a country that functions as a country without immigration laws and their enforcement. Obama had a choice and he chose to be as close to an American President as you could be or get away with politically because he understood where we were at as a nation at the time and he understood that he needed the wealth of an entire nation to bank on and borrow against at the time. The moderates are more or less interchangeable which is why the moderates are more or less on their way out and becoming extinct.
I do not care how other countries function, for I aim at the abolition of all countries and all borders. Thank you though for your acknowledging that Obama was just another conservative bourgeois hack.
He was probably the best Liberal bourgeois hack that America has seen in office to this point. I think Hollywood should have gave him an Oscar to go along with his Noble Peace Prize.
Left-liberalism in the United States- social liberalism or social democracy in Europe - is just a way of defending certain segments of Capital. And Obama wasn't even particularly liberal in American historical and cultural terms.
You believe that he's far more radical than he let on. I'm telling you that he was as conservative as he was in office. Certainly much more conservative than right-wingers like Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford.
American's are all conservatives at the core when it comes to survival and protecting whatever it is that we directly associate with our way of life. Obama is no different than any other American in that regard. He's lived off racism and directly benefited from racism his entire life. His wife is no better than him in that regard. She's just prettier. Trump represented a direct threat to the end of the Liberal/Democratic way of life and represented a change to the way that the government conducts it's business.
Lmao.
1. I actively despise the American way of life. I am,as a fact of birth, American. A lot of the working-class people I know express at a bare minimum a preference for European social welfare (I would go far, far further).
2. America is an intrinsically racist organization because it is a capitalist one.
3. Trump governed right in line with the neoliberal consensus, blocking meaningful systemic reform to the economic system. There's little difference between himself and Biden.
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(11-30-2020, 11:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 02:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-29-2020, 11:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-29-2020, 06:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't know who the younger House leaders are who are at least as progressive and competent at mobilizing action as Pelosi is. Invoking age alone does not describe what is happening, or the skill of the leaders. I don't know a young leader who can run for Pelosi's slot and win a broad mandate to lead the Party or be speaker. AOC will not be elected now, and I don't know if Ro Khanna can do it or is willing. Who else is there? Who will step up? A Gen Xer Democrat is more likely to be a spineless moderate.
McConnell is also a Silent and remains at the Republican helm. So that's no better for them, age wise.
Our government remains at a stalemate, but that is not due to the leadership, but to the voters. They voted for this. It's all on them. Voters today, when they vote for a senator, do not know who they are voting for. This year, they voted for McConnell or for Schumer, and even if the Democrats win two Georgia runoffs, McConnell will still win (though not as handily).
Only if progressive Democrats win a Senate majority can they make DC and PR a state and thus end the Republican Senate dominance. Only then can they reduce or take down the filibuster and reform the court/add liberals. Until they can do this, thanks to the voters' decision, we are stuck in 1981. Maybe forever. In which case, the USA will not be the world's leader; China will be. The USA may decline or split apart, and there will be no hoped-for second turning. Only continued decline.
You voted for Biden and the return to the status quo. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. I hope the Democrats are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on its watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too.
YOu voted for Trump and McConnell and the status quo. No, REGRESSION. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. Because your vote for national decline makes that inevitable. I hope the Republicans are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on their watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too..
I voted for America to remain American for the most part like 70 some million other Americans. We both got what we wanted in this election, we both got a clueless and relatively worthless/powerless Democrat in office. We all know the Democratic machine won the election for Biden and we all know how little effort that it took for him personally to win the election.
America is a nation of immigrants. You voted against America.
America was a nation of immigrants at one time (a little over a century ago). We still are in some ways today but we are mainly a nation of Americans today. America isn't going to survive with an open door policy and a government that doesn't care about how much money it spends/wastes on propping up the world. Hey, if you're lucky, you'll live long enough to see what it's like live off the streets like most of the third world these day. If you're not, you'll die and be born in some shit hole and get to experience what that like. It's what you deserve and I think God will agree with me.
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(12-01-2020, 12:09 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 11:17 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:02 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 02:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (11-29-2020, 11:27 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: You voted for Biden and the return to the status quo. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. I hope the Democrats are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on its watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too.
YOu voted for Trump and McConnell and the status quo. No, REGRESSION. So, it's all on you and everyone else who voted for him. You also voted to establish China as the new world leader as well. Because your vote for national decline makes that inevitable. I hope the Republicans are prepared to deal with continued decline and the reality of a national split occurring on their watch so to speak. I think you guys did a wonderful job setting yourselves up for failure. Just so you know, I understand that we're going to take some lumps too..
I voted for America to remain American for the most part like 70 some million other Americans. We both got what we wanted in this election, we both got a clueless and relatively worthless/powerless Democrat in office. We all know the Democratic machine won the election for Biden and we all know how little effort that it took for him personally to win the election.
America is a nation of immigrants. You voted against America.
America was a nation of immigrants at one time (a little over a century ago). We still are in some ways today but we are mainly a nation of Americans today. America isn't going to survive with an open door policy and a government that doesn't care about how much money it spends/wastes on propping up the world. Hey, if you're lucky, you'll live long enough to see what it's like live off the streets like most of the third world these day. If you're not, you'll die and be born in some shit hole and get to experience what that like. It's what you deserve and I think God will agree with me.
No, it is what you deserve because of your stingy and cruel reaganomics.
If America was a nation of immigrants, that means it is ALWAYS a nation of immigrants. That is who is here, including you and me. The most "American" Americans are the Native Americans from 10,000-13,000 years ago. European settlers 100-200 years ago stole their land, murdered them, and herded them into poor reservations.
The survival of America has nothing to do with how many more come here. It has to do with whether its policies are foolish or wise. Under Reaganomics these last 40 years, American policies have been more foolish than ever in its history.
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(11-30-2020, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 11:04 PM)Einzige Wrote: (11-30-2020, 10:59 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:47 PM)Einzige Wrote: (11-30-2020, 08:39 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Show me a country that functions as a country without immigration laws and their enforcement. Obama had a choice and he chose to be as close to an American President as you could be or get away with politically because he understood where we were at as a nation at the time and he understood that he needed the wealth of an entire nation to bank on and borrow against at the time. The moderates are more or less interchangeable which is why the moderates are more or less on their way out and becoming extinct.
I do not care how other countries function, for I aim at the abolition of all countries and all borders. Thank you though for your acknowledging that Obama was just another conservative bourgeois hack.
He was probably the best Liberal bourgeois hack that America has seen in office to this point. I think Hollywood should have gave him an Oscar to go along with his Noble Peace Prize.
Left-liberalism in the United States- social liberalism or social democracy in Europe - is just a way of defending certain segments of Capital. And Obama wasn't even particularly liberal in American historical and cultural terms.
You believe that he's far more radical than he let on. I'm telling you that he was as conservative as he was in office. Certainly much more conservative than right-wingers like Richard Nixon or Gerald Ford.
American's are all conservatives at the core when it comes to survival and protecting whatever it is that we directly associate with our way of life. Obama is no different than any other American in that regard. He's lived off racism and directly benefited from racism his entire life. His wife is no better than him in that regard. She's just prettier. Trump represented a direct threat to the end of the Liberal/Democratic way of life and represented a change to the way that the government conducts it's business.
A destructive change. America is liberal and democratic, or it is NOT America, but fascism. That is what Trump tried to establish.
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Back in Bush 43’s day, there was a remnant of honor in the Republican Party. Sure, there was a touch of Neo Conservative desire to use the military now that they were the sole superpower, but it ran into proxy war insurgency. Sure they were trying a war for oil, Neo Colonialism, with the Neo conservatives and Big Oil all over the cabinet. But there were also some who wanted what was better for the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, they were poisoned early by the military tendency to xenophobia, but their thinking themselves ‘winning’ if they had a high kill count, before they started fighting for hearts and minds. If they though in terms of military force and profit from oil, they were in their own perverse ways fighting for a strong America.
But then the first black president was elected, and the racist part of the Republican Party led them to go into full scale obstruction mode. Obama wasn’t given too much chance to be liberal. He was lucky to get Obamacare through before the congress locked down. Trump was still reacting to that instinct. Everything Obama was to be undone. It was as if he were out to prove that everything Obama was reprehensible.
Obama also had an agenda to be a good person. Between Obama and Trump, it became clear that the pigment of one’s skin didn’t say a lot about character. If Obama dedicated much of his energy to being a good president, a good man, the contrast with Trump may have cemented the difference between the two.
Now they have for the moment another white male president. The blackmailer In chief is out of office, though he may take a good part of his base with him. Note how folks like Classic and Xenakis are still lapping up his perspective. The Republicans may or may not still be Trump’s party, still the party of obstructionism, with domestic spending treated as socialism and un American. Thus, the working man and minorities are the enemy, much to be trampled on.
I am most curious to see if the Republican obstructionism is still dominant, with the Georgia elections and going into the mid terms. At some point you would think they would be more concerned with helping America than hurting Democrats. The racists and elites made their point. They maximized the division of wealth, and presented skin pigmentation as more important than the people.
Will they be able to project the old values and win? Will enough people who switched over in rejection of Trump stick. Will the old progressive time of tax and spend liberalism make America great again?
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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(12-01-2020, 05:53 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Back in Bush 43’s day, there was a remnant of honor in the Republican Party. Sure, there was a touch of Neo Conservative desire to use the military now that they were the sole superpower, but it ran into proxy war insurgency. Sure they were trying a war for oil, Neo Colonialism, with the Neo conservatives and Big Oil all over the cabinet. But there were also some who wanted what was better for the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, they were poisoned early by the military tendency to xenophobia, but their thinking themselves ‘winning’ if they had a high kill count, before they started fighting for hearts and minds. If they though in terms of military force and profit from oil, they were in their own perverse ways fighting for a strong America.
But then the first black president was elected, and the racist part of the Republican Party led them to go into full scale obstruction mode. Obama wasn’t given too much chance to be liberal. He was lucky to get Obamacare through before the congress locked down. Trump was still reacting to that instinct. Everything Obama was to be undone. It was as if he were out to prove that everything Obama was reprehensible.
Obama also had an agenda to be a good person. Between Obama and Trump, it became clear that the pigment of one’s skin didn’t say a lot about character. If Obama dedicated much of his energy to being a good president, a good man, the contrast with Trump may have cemented the difference between the two.
Now they have for the moment another white male president. The blackmailer In chief is out of office, though he may take a good part of his base with him. Note how folks like Classic and Xenakis are still lapping up his perspective. The Republicans may or may not still be Trump’s party, still the party of obstructionism, with domestic spending treated as socialism and un American. Thus, the working man and minorities are the enemy, much to be trampled on.
I am most curious to see if the Republican obstructionism is still dominant, with the Georgia elections and going into the mid terms. At some point you would think they would be more concerned with helping America than hurting Democrats. The racists and elites made their point. They maximized the division of wealth, and presented skin pigmentation as more important than the people.
Will they be able to project the old values and win? Will enough people who switched over in rejection of Trump stick. Will the old progressive time of tax and spend liberalism make America great again?
Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.
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(12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.
Obama wasn't LBJ. In the middle of the unravelling, no one was going to be able to get away with spending to benefit the worker. We had got out of the habit. Maybe the crisis will cure it, maybe not.
Still, common wisdom is to reject violence except as a last resort. There is a feeling among many people that we have not reached the last resort. Well, maybe the Boogaloo Bois. Maybe the Wolverine Watchmen. Maybe the Marxists. But most see us as nowhere near the last resort.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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(12-01-2020, 06:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.
Obama wasn't LBJ. In the middle of the unravelling, no one was going to be able to get away with spending to benefit the worker. We had got out of the habit. Maybe the crisis will cure it, maybe not.
Still, common wisdom is to reject violence except as a last resort. There is a feeling among many people that we have not reached the last resort. Well, maybe the Boogaloo Bois. Maybe the Wolverine Watchmen. Maybe the Marxists. But most see us as nowhere near the last resort.
Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?
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12-01-2020, 06:42 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2020, 07:09 AM by Bob Butler 54.)
(12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?
From my perspective, the wars that developed from September 11th that destabilized the Middle East were an attempt at a conservative led crisis. A version of the old values was pushed in using war as a means of profit. They ran into an insurgent proxy war and failed. This was a bit early perhaps, but the real crisis is not an attempt to push the old values. September 11th may have felt like Pearl Harbor for a while. but after years of the American military being burned out the battle eventually got looked at on its own merits. They were not going to deny Bin Ladin a place to train. They were not going to reinstitute colonialism. Failed.
It seems most people on this site don't even view it as a crisis. A major attempt at changing American values failed, the traditional rejection of violence in a crisis happened, no more massive numbers of boots on the ground, and people just wanted to forget about it. Instead, it is hard to argue that we didn't revert to unravelling mode. There were seemingly unending debates between two sets of values and neither triumphed.
I would count the early years of the crisis alignment of generations as a continuation of the unravelling. It is only when the trigger event occurs that you get into the heart of the crisis. That would be the appearance of COVID, and later the Black Lives Matter protests. It is only when the new administration commits itself to handling the primary conflict of the crisis that the regeneracy is fully taking place. That looks to happen on February 20th. After that, the crisis is truly underway.
Now you may interpret the theory differently. I admit to taking considerable liberties, the better to match the theory with what actually happened.
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CNN has an attorney currently working Trump's lawsuits to overturn the results of the election as having issued a call for violence. The specific forms of violence are straight from the Agricultural Age. He called for Krebs to be drawn, quartered then shot. Sill, it is an tick or two up the spiral of rhetoric.
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(12-01-2020, 06:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?
From my perspective, the wars that developed from September 11th that destabilized the Middle East were an attempt at a conservative led crisis. A version of the old values was pushed in using war as a means of profit. They ran into an insurgent proxy war and failed. This was a bit early perhaps, but the real crisis is not an attempt to push the old values. September 11th may have felt like Pearl Harbor for a while. but after years of the American military being burned out the battle eventually got looked at on its own merits. They were not going to deny Bin Ladin a place to train. They were not going to reinstitute colonialism. Failed.
It seems most people on this site don't even view it as a crisis. A major attempt at changing American values failed, the traditional rejection of violence in a crisis happened, no more massive numbers of boots on the ground, and people just wanted to forget about it. Instead, it is hard to argue that we didn't revert to unravelling mode. There were seemingly unending debates between two sets of values and neither triumphed.
I would count the early years of the crisis alignment of generations as a continuation of the unravelling. It is only when the trigger event occurs that you get into the heart of the crisis. That would be the appearance of COVID, and later the Black Lives Matter protests. It is only when the new administration commits itself to handling the primary conflict of the crisis that the regeneracy is fully taking place. That looks to happen on February 20th. After that, the crisis is truly underway.
Now you may interpret the theory differently. I admit to taking considerable liberties, the better to match the theory with what actually happened.
Covid was just the trigger that marks the beginning and you just elected Hoover/Chamberlain in my opinion. Thank God, we have the freedom to split with the Democrats and place them on ignore and turn a blind eye to the violence and social unrest that occurs in their little blue countries/ strongholds/city states. We'll get to see how many Democratic believers are left after several years of steady decline, hyper inflation and increasing numbers of people with no values who are pretty much free to do whatever they want with little to no concern about the consequences for their actions. We're already seeing it now. We'll see who is on the greedy side and see who the fools are as well.
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12-01-2020, 01:40 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2020, 01:46 PM by Einzige.)
(12-01-2020, 01:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (12-01-2020, 06:42 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?
From my perspective, the wars that developed from September 11th that destabilized the Middle East were an attempt at a conservative led crisis. A version of the old values was pushed in using war as a means of profit. They ran into an insurgent proxy war and failed. This was a bit early perhaps, but the real crisis is not an attempt to push the old values. September 11th may have felt like Pearl Harbor for a while. but after years of the American military being burned out the battle eventually got looked at on its own merits. They were not going to deny Bin Ladin a place to train. They were not going to reinstitute colonialism. Failed.
It seems most people on this site don't even view it as a crisis. A major attempt at changing American values failed, the traditional rejection of violence in a crisis happened, no more massive numbers of boots on the ground, and people just wanted to forget about it. Instead, it is hard to argue that we didn't revert to unravelling mode. There were seemingly unending debates between two sets of values and neither triumphed.
I would count the early years of the crisis alignment of generations as a continuation of the unravelling. It is only when the trigger event occurs that you get into the heart of the crisis. That would be the appearance of COVID, and later the Black Lives Matter protests. It is only when the new administration commits itself to handling the primary conflict of the crisis that the regeneracy is fully taking place. That looks to happen on February 20th. After that, the crisis is truly underway.
Now you may interpret the theory differently. I admit to taking considerable liberties, the better to match the theory with what actually happened.
Covid was just the trigger that marks the beginning and you just elected Hoover/Chamberlain in my opinion. Thank God, we have the freedom to split with the Democrats and place them on ignore and turn a blind eye to the violence and social unrest that occurs in their little blue countries/ strongholds/city states. We'll get to see how many Democratic believers are left after several years of steady decline, hyper inflation and increasing numbers of people with no values who are pretty much free to do whatever they want with little to no concern about the consequences for their actions. We're already seeing it now. We'll see who is on the greedy side and see who the fools are as well.
On the flipside, weren't you fucking morons preaching the gospel of hyperinflation under Obama? I'm pretty sure Ron Paul and the pretend libertarians of the day were true believers the impending Weimarization of the country.
In truth - very little will change in terms of American social relations, aside from tinkering at the edges. Nothing ever changes in terms of American social relations, except that the ruling class gets a little more inclusive every year.
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(12-01-2020, 06:14 AM)Einzige Wrote: (12-01-2020, 06:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.
Obama wasn't LBJ. In the middle of the unravelling, no one was going to be able to get away with spending to benefit the worker. We had got out of the habit. Maybe the crisis will cure it, maybe not.
Still, common wisdom is to reject violence except as a last resort. There is a feeling among many people that we have not reached the last resort. Well, maybe the Boogaloo Bois. Maybe the Wolverine Watchmen. Maybe the Marxists. But most see us as nowhere near the last resort.
Lol, 2008 is the middle of the unraveling now? And that justifies the continued embrace of neoliberalism by the Democratic Party in 2020?
2008 is when people realized that they needed to turn off the fans and clean them, so to speak. That is when the Unraveling was proved unsustainable. Unraveling politics had bungled the response to Hurricane Katrina, the speculative boom in real estate depended upon people believing that real estate values could only rise and could never go down... and by then it was terribly overpriced, especially when bad loans underpinned the absurd prices for misplaced housing. Think of southern California's "Inland Empire" which should have remained agricultural instead of having schlock housing built upon it.
Other Crises have typically shown themselves as some speculative bubble bursts, as in 1857 and 1929. So it was in 2008. Speculative bubbles devout capital and divert it from job-creating plant and equipment to investments whose value depends upon a fantasy of always-rising prices. Any commodity, any consumer good, any real estate, and any joint-stock share can be overpriced. When people come to the realization that they have been had, there is no buyer, and people realize suddenly that their delusion of wealth is precisely that, and some new era of easy money from buying stuff and doing no real good for people becomes an obvious sham.
2008 is the mass realization that the Unraveling was over. The party mood (and I could make the case that the last Unraveling could be marked around 1980, when pop music quit pretending to have any high purpose and that young adults started using the word "party" as a verb) was shaky by 2005, and it was over in 2008. The idea among elites that nothing mattered except their power, indulgence, and enrichment and that anything that got in the way was a great affront to some cosmic reality (economic elites are often the worst swine) didn't go away.
Those elites were able to induce the first Crisis-era government with Democratic majorities in both Houses of Congress to rescue the assets of the elites from ruin. Maybe we had learned from the last one that the economy could not start to recover until the financial system stabilized. America's economic elites still believed that no human suffering is in excess so long as it allows their maximal power, indulgence, and gain, and those elites pushed impatience with the recovery and organized the Tea Party and lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.
I am satisfied that our economic elites are no better than those in Germany in the early 1930's, and that many of them would be satisfied for easy profits from wars for profit, monopolization of all business, privatization on the cheap to profiteers, establishment of captive markets in conquered countries, and perhaps even slave labor. Markets may be rational if competitive, but economic elites despise competition.
We are still sorting things out. That is Crisis.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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12-01-2020, 02:10 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-01-2020, 02:11 PM by Einzige.)
Quote: those elites... lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.
Hilarious. Examples of these "lavishly funded"Marxists, please?
.
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(12-01-2020, 02:10 PM)Einzige Wrote: Quote: those elites... lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.
Hilarious. Examples of these "lavishly funded"Marxists, please?
.
Senators Pat Toomey and Ron Johnson seem obvious enough.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(12-01-2020, 02:12 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (12-01-2020, 02:10 PM)Einzige Wrote: Quote: those elites... lavishly funded mirror-image Marxists to supplant Democrats.
Hilarious. Examples of these "lavishly funded"Marxists, please?
.
Senators Pat Toomey and Ron Johnson seem obvious enough.
What? Are you accusing them of being Marxists or something? Bizarre.
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(12-01-2020, 01:37 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Covid was just the trigger that marks the beginning and you just elected Hoover/Chamberlain in my opinion. Thank God, we have the freedom to split with the Democrats and place them on ignore and turn a blind eye to the violence and social unrest that occurs in their little blue countries/ strongholds/city states. We'll get to see how many Democratic believers are left after several years of steady decline, hyper inflation and increasing numbers of people with no values who are pretty much free to do whatever they want with little to no concern about the consequences for their actions. We're already seeing it now. We'll see who is on the greedy side and see who the fools are as well.
I don't see you as a big advocate of the elite, of messing up the working man, of weakening unions, of cutting benefits, about sending jobs abroad. Neither are you a racist, hating people because of their skin color. Neither are you a Neo-conservative, advocating the use of war to make a profit. Neither have you been a loud advocate of COVID, about killing lots of people because you think lots of death is neat.
And yet, you are still Republican.
People are amazingly willing to disregard facts rather than change their mindset and values. You have demonstrated this as much as anyone. You are not the worst of those locked in the red universe, not by a long shot.
Biden has promised to commit himself to fighting COVID, elitism, racism and global warming after Trump placed himself on the wrong side of all four. Hoover in declining government regulation and correction of the economy, Chamberlain in declining to contain autocratic military aggression, ignored the major issues of their time. Given the major crisis level issues, Hoover, Chamberlain and Trump failed to engage. They found reasons to stick with what had been always done before. They tried to maintain the status quo.
I don't know how well Biden will keep his promises. I just know he will attempt to confront the problems. This makes George III, Buchanan, Hoover and Trump as kindred in remaining the same, in clinging with not solving problems. It lumps George Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Churchill together with Biden in trying to solve problems. I know Biden hasn't earned that place yet. Those are mighty names. He hasn't become that tightly linked to the new values and given the credit for the forces of history. He isn't who I would have chosen for the role. Still, he is heading in the right direction.
We'll see how determined you are to head the wrong way, to leave the very real crisis problems unaddressed. The violence of the Black Lives Matter protests has already faded. The Proud Boys and Wolverine Watchmen seemed the last big violent groups. COVID is getting close to overloading the hospitals. Getting out of the economic difficulties almost requires attacking the tremendous inequality in wealth.
We'll see if the folks that shifted over to the blue perspective shift back after Trump is no longer in the White House. We'll see if Trump stays gone, or keeps the base as a hostage to bring the Republican Party down. The regeneracy starts January 20th. We'll see how the crisis flows from there.
But for a favorable place in the history book, I would say Biden has landed in the better position.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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(12-01-2020, 05:56 AM)Einzige Wrote: (12-01-2020, 05:53 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Back in Bush 43’s day, there was a remnant of honor in the Republican Party. Sure, there was a touch of Neo Conservative desire to use the military now that they were the sole superpower, but it ran into proxy war insurgency. Sure they were trying a war for oil, Neo Colonialism, with the Neo conservatives and Big Oil all over the cabinet. But there were also some who wanted what was better for the Iraqi people. Unfortunately, they were poisoned early by the military tendency to xenophobia, but their thinking themselves ‘winning’ if they had a high kill count, before they started fighting for hearts and minds. If they though in terms of military force and profit from oil, they were in their own perverse ways fighting for a strong America.
But then the first black president was elected, and the racist part of the Republican Party led them to go into full scale obstruction mode. Obama wasn’t given too much chance to be liberal. He was lucky to get Obamacare through before the congress locked down. Trump was still reacting to that instinct. Everything Obama was to be undone. It was as if he were out to prove that everything Obama was reprehensible.
Obama also had an agenda to be a good person. Between Obama and Trump, it became clear that the pigment of one’s skin didn’t say a lot about character. If Obama dedicated much of his energy to being a good president, a good man, the contrast with Trump may have cemented the difference between the two.
Now they have for the moment another white male president. The blackmailer In chief is out of office, though he may take a good part of his base with him. Note how folks like Classic and Xenakis are still lapping up his perspective. The Republicans may or may not still be Trump’s party, still the party of obstructionism, with domestic spending treated as socialism and un American. Thus, the working man and minorities are the enemy, much to be trampled on.
I am most curious to see if the Republican obstructionism is still dominant, with the Georgia elections and going into the mid terms. At some point you would think they would be more concerned with helping America than hurting Democrats. The racists and elites made their point. They maximized the division of wealth, and presented skin pigmentation as more important than the people.
Will they be able to project the old values and win? Will enough people who switched over in rejection of Trump stick. Will the old progressive time of tax and spend liberalism make America great again?
Obama didn't want to be an LBJ-style social democrat and was never going to govern that way even if the Democrats kept both houses.
He wanted to be like him or FDR but he couldn't get away with it back then or today or tomorrow for that matter. The racists and the elites made their point by backing Biden. Evidently, Trump was to much for them to handle. Like I said, racism is to lucrative for the party of racism ( The Democratic party) to let go of these day. Poverty is also to lucrative for them to let go of as well. Climate change to lucrative as well. There's a few trillion riding on climate change right now and a few trillion more riding on propping up failing institutions and Democratic run governments/states. You better get up to speed and figure out where the other half of the country is at compared to where you and every other Liberal fool is at these days. According to you and every other Liberal fool, the dumb people like me shouldn't be here jarring with highly intelligent people like yourself. We're supposed to be backwards or old fashioned and supposed to be ignorant/dumb and not as well advanced technology wise. I laugh to myself every time a dumb Liberal tells me that these days.
As far the Republicans, the Republicans can help their fellow Americans by proving their worth to them by hurting the Democrats, or for better terms, playing the same fucking game as the lowly Democrats have been playing the entire 3T. YOU FUCKED YOURSELF AND HALF THE COUNTRY DOESN'T CARE THAT YOU AND EVERY OTHER DEMOCRATIC VOTER FUCKED YOURSELVES. Do you pay any attention to the dumb fuckers on your side these days? YOUR ENTIRE SYSTEM IS BASED ON AMERICA REMAINING TOGETHER AND YOUR DUMB FUCKERS ARE STILL OUT THERE PISSING OFF HALF THE COUNTRY AND GETTING BENT OUT OF SHAPE WHEN THE OTHER SIDE REACTS TO THEIR SHIT WITH EQUAL KIND. Like I said, I could care less about the Democrats and I could care less about the Democratic influenced portion of the Republicans as well. They can live under tyranny and get used to the idea of having no say or power to do much of anything like they do now forever. Like I said, we won't be fighting over slavery this time around like you still seem to think these days.
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