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The Partisan Divide on Issues
#21
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tru...jc_7q-xX0Q

I grew up in rural, small-town America — and I can tell you the real reason why people love Donald Trump.
When I tried to debunk one old friend's conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton recently, he replied, 'You've forgotten where you came from'


Larry Womack, California
1 day ago

I grew up in a small town in California, with a population of just over 2,000. When I was in the third grade, my classroom had exactly one black student. It was an election year: George H W Bush versus Michael Dukakis. When the traditional student poll was held, she was the only student who said she preferred Dukakis. Other students pressured her until she changed her vote to Bush.

It’s hard to overstate the small-town social pressure to conform. When a childhood friend posted a hoax story about Hillary Clinton on Facebook recently, I directed him (without comment) to a Snopes piece debunking it. His response was, “You’ve forgotten where you came from.” Then he unfriended me. For many in rural America, it’s downright logical to deny objective reality on any particular issue. Supporting a Democrat might mean a better standard of living in some ways. But, it will also come at a personal cost.

People especially value the opinions of those who model success in their daily lives. Donald Trump spent years playing a successful businessman in a game show that many of these people watched regularly. To them, he’s practically a hometown success story. Of these, there are too few. Between 2008 and 2017, 99 per cent of America’s job and population growth was in metropolitan areas. Rural Americans are being left behind.

So, when those rural Americans are not coming up with ways to make their own problems worse, they’re looking for out-groups to blame. Like the minorities who live in those thriving urban centers, and have an increasingly equitable share of power in Washington, DC. Rural voters are far more likely to believe that black and Latinx people are abusing government assistance programs, for example. The racist resentment is vast, and a growing body of research has found that support for Trump is fueled almost entirely by hatred of out-groups: In 2016, the strongest predictors of Trump support were bigotry and lack of education.

All of this is coded in political language, of course — which is why simply being female, or a person of color, is enough for voters to view a candidate as more left-of-center than their actual policy positions. To far too many, the word “liberal” has become a slur for anyone who doesn’t look like them.

If you asked rural Americans how they felt about people of any particular minority group, most would pride themselves on having an unassuming, open-minded acceptance. And, for the most part, that is true on a personal level. But, to them, racism is a Klansman in a movie. It isn’t a contemporary power structure, or an implicit bias that gets black teenagers killed. They don’t see that. They can, on the other hand, see themselves struggling. They just very earnestly do not get it. The minorities they do know are — like that little girl in my third grade class — pressured to fit in, to stay quiet. They’re not talking much about racism.

All of this is exacerbated by the fact that rural teens are stubbornly less likely to pursue higher education than their urban counterparts, even as the low- and middle-skill jobs in their areas disappear.

So, Trump’s attitudes really aren’t any different from the actual feelings of many rural Americans. How can they condemn him for it? Even if they don’t agree, they can identify him with people they love, in spite of those attitudes. He is their father, their uncle, their boss — and his re-election slogan may just as well be, “I don’t see what’s so racist about that.”

It isn’t just Trump’s ignorance that should bother people, of course. It’s also the allegations of corruption against him. It is telling that, in one recent survey, the people least convinced by Trump’s anti-corruption rhetoric seemed to be Romney-Clinton voters. But they tend to live in the suburbs. Rural folk wisdom dictates that all politicians are corrupt to the core, and that anyone who believes otherwise is disgustingly naïve. Once, when my mother expressed contempt for Trump’s corruption, my father groaned back, “They all do it.” My father is a Democrat, but I’m afraid to ask outright whom he voted for. I’m not sure I could look at him the same way.

It will surprise no one who has lived in rural America, or pays attention to Trump’s tweets, that Trump voters are more likely to believe conspiracy theories. Institutions like science, education and government are run, after all, by liberals. Many Americans will see a story in the newspaper as less trustworthy than the meme or obvious hoax site shared by someone they know.

Add to the equation a steady diet of fringe media with no accountability itself and you have a rural population that largely believes Trump is no more guilty of corruption than the Clintons, the Obamas, the Bushes, or anyone else. The perception is that he is just being given a hard time because he happens to be one of them.

Because, you know who looks nothing like Trump — or rural America? Every politician and media figure who criticizes, fact-checks, or objectively speaks about Trump. Those people look like the smart aleck who grew up and left town, or like the woman from corporate who laid that poor racist uncle off. They think they’re better than them. Those people, to rural America, are Liberals, with a capital L. In this very piece I insulted them. Why should they trust me?

Rural America supports Trump because they believe that urban elites hate him — and they believe that urban elites hate them, too. And I don’t think they’ll turn on him in significant numbers until they stop seeing him as one of their own.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#22
(11-26-2019, 01:03 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/tru...jc_7q-xX0Q

I grew up in rural, small-town America — and I can tell you the real reason why people love Donald Trump
When I tried to debunk one old friend's conspiracy theory about Hillary Clinton recently, he replied, 'You've forgotten where you came from'


Larry Womack, California
1 day ago

I grew up in a small town in California, with a population of just over 2,000. When I was in the third grade, my classroom had exactly one black student. It was an election year: George H W Bush versus Michael Dukakis. When the traditional student poll was held, she was the only student who said she preferred Dukakis. Other students pressured her until she changed her vote to Bush.

It’s hard to overstate the small-town social pressure to conform. When a childhood friend posted a hoax story about Hillary Clinton on Facebook recently, I directed him (without comment) to a Snopes piece debunking it. His response was, “You’ve forgotten where you came from.” Then he unfriended me. For many in rural America, it’s downright logical to deny objective reality on any particular issue. Supporting a Democrat might mean a better standard of living in some ways. But, it will also come at a personal cost.

People especially value the opinions of those who model success in their daily lives. Donald Trump spent years playing a successful businessman in a game show that many of these people watched regularly. To them, he’s practically a hometown success story. Of these, there are too few. Between 2008 and 2017, 99 per cent of America’s job and population growth was in metropolitan areas. Rural Americans are being left behind.

Probably because the manufacturing jobs that allowed one to live reasonably well in rural America have largely disappeared. There might be one big industrial employer that youth seek and get after marking time as workers in stores, restaurants, or nursing homes... and after getting a job with that industrial employer they see themselves set for life. The cost of living is low, and 'family life' is more satisfying than urban indulgences including intellectual life. Adults who grew up as kids in that small town still have attachments to their old high school, where they expect their sons or daughters to undergo the civic rituals of high-school athletics before themselves marking time in a restaurant or store until a job appears in the town's big employer. Tradition is comforting even if it has little formality behind it. 

Then some bean-counters far away decide that the company would be more profitable as an importer than as a manufacturer. The bug employer shuts down its operation in town, and the well-paying jobs disappear.   

The problem with Trump's appeal is that his success does not mean that he is creating jobs. Apartment complexes have lots of work available when being built, of course -- but they are hardly large-scale employers. 


Quote:So, when those rural Americans not coming up with ways to make their own problems worse, they’re looking for out-groups to blame. Like the minorities who live in those thriving urban centers, and have an increasingly equitable share of power in Washington, DC. Rural voters are far more likely to believe that black and Latino people are abusing government assistance programs, for example. The racist resentment is vast, and a growing body of research has found that support for Trump is fueled almost entirely by hatred of out-groups: In 2016, the strongest predictors of Trump support were bigotry and lack of education.


So it isn't economic distress? Trump did advocate tariffs that would supposedly make a reversion of big corporations from being importers to being manufacturers. Tariffs are a raw deal, dirty taxes that raise the cost of living and the cost of doing business.     


Quote:All of this is coded in political language, of course — which is why simply being female, or a person of color, is enough for voters to view a candidate as more left-of-center than their actual policy positions. To far too many, the word “liberal” has become a slur for anyone who doesn’t look like them.


As the late Lee Atwater said, you might not get away with using a certain word that rhymes with "trigger", but you can talk about other things allegedly specific to white people as virtues and to non-whites as alleged vices. If it is welfare, then white people generally do not admit to it. I have calmly used a SNAP card as if I would have used an "American Impress" Card. 

Here's the dirty little secret. Middle-class blacks care about poor blacks, on the whole; middle-class Hispanics care about poor Hispanics on the whole. Well-off white people do not care about poor white people. Often the cause is distance, in that white people in  Greater Indianapolis don't spend much time in rural Kentucky. 


Quote:If you asked rural Americans how they felt about people of any particular minority group, most would pride themselves on having an unassuming, open-minded acceptance. And, for the most part, that is true on a personal level. But, to them, racism is a Klansman in a movie. It isn’t a contemporary power structure, or an implicit bias that gets black teenagers killed. They don’t see that. They can, on the other hand, see themselves struggling. They just very earnestly do not get it. The minorities they do know are — like that little girl in my third grade class — pressured to fit in, to stay quiet. They’re not talking much about racism.

All of this is exacerbated by the fact that rural teens are stubbornly less likely to pursue higher education than their urban counterparts, even as the low- and middle-skill jobs in their areas disappear.

They are struggling, but they are trained not to see it as a class struggle. Such, after all, is godless communism. These people think that when they get the chance that they will kiss up to the power elite of America. 


Quote:So, Trump’s attitudes really aren’t any different from the actual feelings of many rural Americans. How can they condemn him for it? Even if they don’t agree, they can identify him with people they love, in spite of those attitudes. He is their father, their uncle, their boss — and his re-election slogan may just as well be, “I don’t see what’s so racist about that.”

It isn’t just Trump’s ignorance that should bother people, of course. It’s also the allegations of corruption against him. It is telling that, in one recent survey, the people least convinced by Trump’s anti-corruption rhetoric seemed to be Romney-Clinton voters. But they tend to live in the suburbs. Rural folk wisdom dictates that all politicians are corrupt to the core, and that anyone who believes otherwise is disgustingly naïve. Once, when my mother expressed contempt for Trump’s corruption, my father groaned back, “They all do it.” My father is a Democrat, but I’m afraid to ask outright whom he voted for. I’m not sure I could look at him the same way.

The politicians of course are from elsewhere -- like New York City, San Francisco, Chicago, or Boston. Bill Clinton may have been born and raised in Arkansas, but he became a city-slicker while in college. Rural America is becoming less relevant as a source of nationwide politicians. It's the same within states, too. The greater the difference that people are by culture from the politicians, the more likely they are to project their dark dreams upon them. Such applies as much to bankers and creative people as to politicians.

Quote:It will surprise no one who has lived in rural America, or pays attention to Trump’s tweets, that Trump voters are more likely to believe conspiracy theories. Institutions like science, education and government are run, after all, by liberals. Many Americans will see a story in the newspaper as less trustworthy than the meme or obvious hoax site shared by someone they know.

The kinship bond is stronger than logic and objective reality. The narrow community is more reliable than the bigger one. This said, the small-town newspapers increasingly avoid national news because it simply wastes space that can be applied to the nearby bust of a meth lab or a local sex offender. As one newscaster once put it, "If it bleeds it leads". Word-of-mouth from people that one knows and trusts means more to some people than does something emanating from a giant city.   

Quote:Add to the equation a steady diet of fringe media with no accountability itself and you have a rural population that largely believes Trump is no more guilty of corruption than the Clintons, the Obamas, the Bushes, or anyone else. The perception is that he is just being given a hard time because he happens to be one of them.

Like other confidence men, Donald Trump has found the trick of making people who seem neglected feel important, making people who get no respect for their wisdom seem astute, making lonely people feel that they have a friend, and making people who seem ordinary feel special. Instead of fleecing people for their life savings to invest in a pill that can make gasoline out of water, Donald Trump has fleeced them with an economic ideology that will hurt the salt-of-the-earth types even more, and with a foreign policy likely to result in a war that turns their kids into cannon fodder. 

Trump is not one of them except for in no way being an intellectual. This man is probably less learned than our last President who did not have a college education; Truman was an avid reader, and he learned what he had to know at the time throughout his political career. His behavior is inconsistent with someone who takes the moral teachings of Jesus seriously. He seems to cadge together the ethics of Aleister Crowley and the ideology of Ayn Rand, both of whom were as obnoxious, elitist, wicked city-slickers as people can be. Trump is the sort of person who forgets that beef and milk come from cows. He is not the sort that I would expect to attend regular church services unless a camera is rolling.  

Quote:Because, you know who looks nothing like Trump — or rural America? Every politician and media figure who criticizes, fact-checks, or objectively speaks about Trump. Those people look like the smart aleck who grew up and left town, or like the woman from corporate who laid that poor racist uncle off. They think they’re better than them. Those people, to rural America, are Liberals, with a capital L. In this very piece I insulted them. Why should they trust me?

Rural America supports Trump because they believe that urban elites hate him — and they believe that urban elites hate them, too. And I don’t think they’ll turn on him in significant numbers until they stop seeing him as one of their own.

To which I would say -- objective truth may be inconvenient to learn and accept, but that is all that we have. That smart-aleck who went to college and became a marine biologist who could never get a job that he would like in his old home town did what is natural for smart people. The "woman from Corporate" who laid off your uncle is almost certainly no liberal, as liberals rarely get ahead in Corporate America (whose political ideology is usually mirror-image Marxism that endorses exactly what the Marxists excoriates). 

Trump is a nasty plutocrat, but he has played the contempt of working-class America for the educated middle class -- the sorts of people who think that country music is an oxymoron, who cringe when they hear bad grammar or pseudo-science, and who would rather visit Lisbon than Las Vegas.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#23
Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop!

And don't kid yourself. This is not political prejudice. VOTES MATTER. Democrats are better than Republicans, and that is not hard at all to be. Where there is no political will, the people perish. Republicans provide us with accelerating climate change. They allow the 1% to get all the breaks and keep wages low. They oppose infrastructure, social and health programs that could uplift the people based on their trickle-down economics ideology. They erode democracy and civil, worker and consumer rights. They enable extreme gun violence. Now their man is fomenting trouble all over the world and accelerating American decline with his refusal to participate in treaties and alliances.

There are many programs proposed by liberals these days to uplift the USA nation, make it more prosperous for more people and cure it of its ills. But it's clear that the reason for our ills and stagnation is not only the 1%. It is the 40%. The rural and small town and small city whites who vote 4-1 or 5-1 Republican are the reason for our ills, because they support and worship the 1% and their ideologies. The least-informed and most-prejudiced voters have a built-in advantage in our election system due to the structure of the senate and the electoral college. They must be changed in their behavior, or if possible outvoted by margins approaching at least 10%, or our country and our world will perish.

The program that is most needed is to beef up public education. Bernie's proposal to outlaw charter schools suddenly makes more sense to me, after reading this article above. It must go farther than that. I don't think we can make private or parochial schools illegal. But public education needs more support. And all schools whether public or private must be required as a condition of their certification or funding to teach hefty amounts of civics, history and social studies. Reports on PBS make it clear to me that most schools no longer teach these things. How can we have an informed citizenry, then, as Thomas Jefferson told us we must if we want a free republic? That doesn't mean the teachers need to teach liberal ideology, but white rural students and all students in the USA need to have a good background on which to base their view of the world. They must be taught to think critically and to be creative and work with others, and to respect others of all races and creeds. They must be taught that no one religion represents the USA. If that's liberal ideology, then so be it. To me it just represents the principles of the nation they are being given the right to vote in.

Also, a liberal president, government or national candidate needs to campaign aggressively in red states and counties, and do everything they can to promote genuine American principles and liberal values and the understanding of real facts in these forsaken places. Talk shows and "propaganda arms" need to be set up. Right now all they get is Shawn Hannity and Pat Robertson and folks like them screaming at them. Yes, we need liberals to use every means possible to promote and spread the liberal message and cure the red states and counties of their disease that is ruining America and the world! The red curtain needs to be breached, and red state people need to hear another message! There must be an anti-red crusade, just like the anti-red communist crusades and radio free Europe and such that helped the people there eventually rise up and throw out their tyranny. That is not about criticizing the people, just providing the facts and the world view of a free republic.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#24
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop! 

The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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#25
"you are expected to conform and vote Republican"? What kind of crap is that? Doesn't America have secret ballots?
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#26
(11-29-2019, 05:16 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: "you are expected to conform and vote Republican"? What kind of crap is that? Doesn't America have secret ballots?

I'm sure that the little black girls parents still voted for Dukakis. I mean, it's not like the liberals aren't guilty of doing/ trying to do the same thing.
Reply
#27
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop!
How many Americans like morons and how many are willing to support a bunch of morons these days?
Reply
#28
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop! 

The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.

That is a good article, David. Here's an excerpt that speaks to the idea that the Blue State is going to ultimately have a more successful 4T than the Red State will.

"The white working class constituency that would seem to be most immune to the appeal of the cultural left — the very constituency that has moved more decisively than any other to the right — is now succumbing to the centrifugal, even anarchic, forces denounced by Barr and other social conservatives, while more liberal constituencies are moving in the opposite, more socially coherent, rule-following, direction."
Steve Barrera

[A]lthough one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. - Hagakure

Saecular Pages
Reply
#29
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote: The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.
The secularism (Quasi Socialism) on the left  has been taking its tole and weakening the fabric of blue society.
Reply
#30
(11-30-2019, 01:02 PM)sbarrera Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop! 

The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.

That is a good article, David. Here's an excerpt that speaks to the idea that the Blue State is going to ultimately have a more successful 4T than the Red State will.

"The white working class constituency that would seem to be most immune to the appeal of the cultural left — the very constituency that has moved more decisively than any other to the right — is now succumbing to the centrifugal, even anarchic, forces denounced by Barr and other social conservatives, while more liberal constituencies are moving in the opposite, more socially coherent, rule-following, direction."
So, in other words, the American Left is now beginning to move to the right and aligning itself more with the American right these days too. Ah, that's not good news for the left. Hint, Bill Barr doesn't have a problem with the American left. Hint, I don't have a problem with the American Left. THE SO CALLED BLUE STATE IS DOOMED AND WILL BE GOING DOWN.
Reply
#31
(11-30-2019, 03:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote: The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.
The secularism (Quasi Socialism) on the left  has been taking its tole and weakening the fabric of blue society..... How many Americans like morons and how many are willing to support a bunch of morons these days?

Red society seems to be weakening much faster. It's now the scene of the drug abuse problem that once infected blue society. Its economy is stagnant, and red states have experienced a brain drain, a youth drain and even an elder drain for decades. Their pollution is growing, while blue states are cleaning up and getting energy efficient. The red states still hang onto enough population to keep their electoral vote advantage though.

Some red states like Texas and Georgia are doing pretty well and gaining electoral votes, because the problem with coastal blue states is not a weakening of fabric so much as a strengthening of its desirability to the point that they are unaffordable, and therefore more people are moving out. Until very recently though, CA was still adding almost as many residents as Texas, though not as much by percentage. And as Texas, Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina have added more residents, they have been trending purple. It's true that homelessness is a rising problem in unaffordable blue states like CA, but it's a side issue that does not weaken the fabric. Heavy Latino immigration in CA does pose problems for such fields as education, but in most cases the immigrants are hard workers who do most of the work and add to blue society's fabric. In CA they come from all over the world. Meanwhile red society gets fewer immigrants and misses out on the stimulus that they bring. As they lose economic vitality, red states and counties fall back on racism and religious prejudice to find scapegoats for their decline. They are turning in on themselves and their white Christian culture, and tuning out on reality.

Which side is supporting the most obvious moron ever to occupy the White House? Which side is so moronic that they actually approve of this incredible lack of intelligence and morality on the part of their celebrity dear leader? Which side values entertainment and the appeal to passion and prejudice in a president or candidate far above such virtues as dedication to law, democracy, attention to needs and civic duty?
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#32
(11-29-2019, 05:16 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: "you are expected to conform and vote Republican"? What kind of crap is that? Doesn't America have secret ballots?

Yes, and yet these areas do vote Republican by margins of 4 or 5 to one. That's conformity. If you don't agree, you keep your mouth shut and have no influence. Those 4 or 5 to 1 stats are quite verifiable in most rural and small-town, white-dominated counties in America. You can check it out. And people in those areas do not have access to much besides Fox News, Christian broadcasts and right-wing talk radio, and they are more susceptible to conspiracy theory and fake news, which they take as gospel.
"I close my eyes, and I can see a better day" -- Justin Bieber

Keep the spirit alive;
Eric M
Reply
#33
(11-30-2019, 04:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 01:02 PM)sbarrera Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop! 

The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.

That is a good article, David. Here's an excerpt that speaks to the idea that the Blue State is going to ultimately have a more successful 4T than the Red State will.

"The white working class constituency that would seem to be most immune to the appeal of the cultural left — the very constituency that has moved more decisively than any other to the right — is now succumbing to the centrifugal, even anarchic, forces denounced by Barr and other social conservatives, while more liberal constituencies are moving in the opposite, more socially coherent, rule-following, direction."
So, in other words, the American Left is now beginning to move to the right and aligning itself more with the American right these days too. Ah, that's not good news for the left. Hint, Bill Barr doesn't have a problem with the American left. Hint, I don't have a problem with the American Left. THE SO CALLED BLUE STATE IS DOOMED AND WILL BE GOING DOWN.
The article isn't saying that the left is moving to the right, but that the liberal/blue state part of society has more social cohesion, stability and success now. Success as in improving in education and income and being less susceptible to social problems like drug addiction and violence. I'm not sure where you're all-caps prophecy is coming from; it seems like wishful thinking.
Steve Barrera

[A]lthough one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. - Hagakure

Saecular Pages
Reply
#34
(11-30-2019, 03:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote: The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is understandable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.

The secularism (Quasi Socialism) on the left  has been taking its tole and weakening the fabric of blue society.

The original communists and socialists were monks and cloistered nuns, so don't try to link the two.  It's a bad fit.  If you want to argue that secularism is destroying the fabric of society, and that's covered pretty well in the linked article above, then feel free to bring some evidence.  Right now, the most stable families are among the secular elite, of course they have the resources needed to make that happen.  In general, Blue areas of the country have much lower levels of teen births and single motherhood that's unplanned.  The most fragmented in all categories: the rural poor.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Reply
#35
(12-01-2019, 10:16 AM)sbarrera Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 04:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 01:02 PM)sbarrera Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop! 

The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.

That is a good article, David. Here's an excerpt that speaks to the idea that the Blue State is going to ultimately have a more successful 4T than the Red State will.

"The white working class constituency that would seem to be most immune to the appeal of the cultural left — the very constituency that has moved more decisively than any other to the right — is now succumbing to the centrifugal, even anarchic, forces denounced by Barr and other social conservatives, while more liberal constituencies are moving in the opposite, more socially coherent, rule-following, direction."
So, in other words, the American Left is now beginning to move to the right and aligning itself more with the American right these days too. Ah, that's not good news for the left. Hint, Bill Barr doesn't have a problem with the American left. Hint, I don't have a problem with the American Left. THE SO CALLED BLUE STATE IS DOOMED AND WILL BE GOING DOWN.
The article isn't saying that the left is moving to the right, but that the liberal/blue state part of society has more social cohesion, stability and success now. Success as in improving in education and income and being less susceptible to social problems like drug addiction and violence. I'm not sure where you're all-caps prophecy is coming from; it seems like wishful thinking.
Yes it is. You weren't reading it honestly or objectively enough to figure that out. How many of us view are ourselves as white trash these days? How many of us understand the obvious difference between us and the white trash? Do you know the difference wishful thinking and clinging to stereotypes and ones personal beliefs and so on? Dude, wishful thinking requires a miracle or a major meltdown that's unlikely to occur or the complete absence of common sense or the perfect storm to occur at the exact or right time so to speak? Hint. Wishful doesn't use much logic or common sense with its reasoning or its decisions and opinions and tends to only support what it wants to hear or believes and so forth . The old blue liberal fed you a crumb of his limited knowledge of a small slice of rural American culture and you gobbled it up as truthful and applicable to all rural American regions.

The article is saying that the relatively honest, rule following, law abiding white working class voters who are commonly viewed as being most immune to the appeal of the cultural left these days are now being joined by more liberal constituencies who share the same American values and virtues as them while Barr seems to be ignoring the rural white trash constituency that you and every other clown here believes were the group that got him elected so to speak. Well moron, if you were able to listen like me, able to see what I'm able to see and able to read objectively and comprehend what's written by liberals like I did then you would come to the same conclusion that I stated in capital letters.
Reply
#36
(12-01-2019, 10:33 AM)David Horn Wrote: The original communists and socialists were monks and cloistered nuns, so don't try to link the two.  It's a bad fit.  If you want to argue that secularism is destroying the fabric of society, and that's covered pretty well in the linked article above, then feel free to bring some evidence.  Right now, the most stable families are among the secular elite, of course they have the resources needed to make that happen.  In general, Blue areas of the country have much lower levels of teen births and single motherhood that's unplanned.  The most fragmented in all categories: the rural poor.
True, the originals did it differently than their modern predecessors are doing it/attempting to do it today. How many blues would be willing to fight and die for their country these days? How many would be willing to sacrifice themselves to save a friend or a family member or a unborn baby these days? Do you really want to go there with me? I have no druthers when it comes to talking about liberal people these days. Like I've said, its hard to accuse me of getting my information about liberals from conservative groups or conservative spokesmen or radio stars when I here processing information and learning first hand. Are you to dense to figure out and an understand that's what's happening here? The psychological war blues have been waging ain't over yet buddy. Are you at the point of winning it or losing it at this point? I have my opinion but I'd like to here your opinion.
Reply
#37
(12-01-2019, 02:48 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Red society seems to be weakening much faster. It's now the scene of the drug abuse problem that once infected blue society. Its economy is stagnant, and red states have experienced a brain drain, a youth drain and even an elder drain for decades. Their pollution is growing, while blue states are cleaning up and getting energy efficient. The red states still hang onto enough population to keep their electoral vote advantage though.

Some red states like Texas and Georgia are doing pretty well and gaining electoral votes, because the problem with coastal blue states is not a weakening of fabric so much as a strengthening of its desirability to the point that they are unaffordable, and therefore more people are moving out. Until very recently though, CA was still adding almost as many residents as Texas, though not as much by percentage. And as Texas, Arizona, Georgia and North Carolina have added more residents, they have been trending purple. It's true that homelessness is a rising problem in unaffordable blue states like CA, but it's a side issue that does not weaken the fabric. Heavy Latino immigration in CA does pose problems for such fields as education, but in most cases the immigrants are hard workers who do most of the work and add to blue society's fabric. In CA they come from all over the world. Meanwhile red society gets fewer immigrants and misses out on the stimulus that they bring. As they lose economic vitality, red states and counties fall back on racism and religious prejudice to find scapegoats for their decline. They are turning in on themselves and their white Christian culture, and tuning out on reality.

Which side is supporting the most obvious moron ever to occupy the White House? Which side is so moronic that they actually approve of this incredible lack of intelligence and morality on the part of their celebrity dear leader? Which side values entertainment and the appeal to passion and prejudice in a president or candidate far above such virtues as dedication to law, democracy, attention to needs and civic duty?
Brain drain? Who appears to have an issue with brain drain or absent mindedness or a brain that can't seem to work any other way than it has been trained or taught to desire? So, who are the Latino's busting their asses and doing the bulk of the work for these days? Are they doing it for the rich people or the poor people who are no longer expected to work as hard or nearly as much as them for as little as they earn these days? In a way, I feel sorry for those poor people. So, how many of them are illegals? What's your guess? I'd say most based on what I've already seen occur in a old neighbors backyard in the past. You see, I watched as a population of Latino's was significantly reduced by about two thirds during the Obama years.
Reply
#38
(11-30-2019, 04:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(11-30-2019, 01:02 PM)sbarrera Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 10:45 AM)David Horn Wrote:
(11-27-2019, 12:31 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Certain people, such as Amy Bell, tend to call me a troll for pointing out that rural white America is the source of our lack of progress these 40 years. The conclusion is inescapable that this is indeed the source. Our country is now divided between blue, moderate-to-liberal, mostly-coastal urban areas and the rural flyover country that is loyal to its rural white territories, its religion, race, conservative culture and right-wing politics. If you live in those red territories, you are expected to conform and vote Republican. They are now called red states and counties, where the people vote Republican in margins of 4 or 5 to one. Election returns prove this beyond any doubt at all. They are locked into their views. They are poorly educated, and have no access to information, or they ignore what access they may have. Their fortunes are falling, which makes them unhappy and resentful. In some states this has resulted in opioid drug overdoses and suicides. They blame black people, welfare, taxes and liberals for their plight, even though it's actually the people they vote for who are responsible for their plight, for the most part. They vote for Republicans because they say the "urban elites" (anyone more educated than they are and who live in blue states) don't like them and insult them. They have never heard of learning a lesson and changing behavior. They are unable to do so. They don't realize that the only reason people in blue states and cities may criticize them, is because they vote Republican. If they would change their votes, people like me would have no problem with them at all. Put the horse before the cart, rural white red-state people! It's not who you are, it's how you vote. Full stop! 

The Red Rural Regions are shrinking and their economies are collapsing, for the most part at least.  Residents are now in a fully defensive crouch,, trying to preserve their lifestyles even as they wither away.  What you see here is fear and loathing.  The fear is under stable.  The loathing is part envy and part anger at being done wrong.  The harder we in Blue America push against these ideas, the stronger the adherents cling to them.  Here's a good article from the NY Times that covers a lot of it.

And don't think the GOP doesn't understand this very well.  Bill Barr is out there pitching the idea that secularism on the left is destroying the fabric of society -- essentially an anti-American act against Real America.  Never mind that the facts are on the other side.  Facts don't count these days, as you already know.

That is a good article, David. Here's an excerpt that speaks to the idea that the Blue State is going to ultimately have a more successful 4T than the Red State will.

"The white working class constituency that would seem to be most immune to the appeal of the cultural left — the very constituency that has moved more decisively than any other to the right — is now succumbing to the centrifugal, even anarchic, forces denounced by Barr and other social conservatives, while more liberal constituencies are moving in the opposite, more socially coherent, rule-following, direction."
So, in other words, the American Left is now beginning to move to the right and aligning itself more with the American right these days too. Ah, that's not good news for the left. Hint, Bill Barr doesn't have a problem with the American left. Hint, I don't have a problem with the American Left. THE SO CALLED BLUE STATE IS DOOMED AND WILL BE GOING DOWN.

A parallel was in German Jews before 1930 in that they had the economic markers characteristic of the right-wing German National People's Party (DNVP) yet distrusted the antisemitism and anti-intellectualism of a party associated with tycoons, financiers, and big landowners. If Weimar Germany had one model minority, America has several, one of which is Jews. Others include Arab-Americans, South Asians, Chinese-Americans, Japanese-Americans, Korean-Americans, Filipino-Americans, Vietnamese-Americans, Puerto Ricans, middle-class Mexican-Americans, African immigrants, Jamaican-Americans, and the native Black Bourgeoisie. All of these groups have cause to distrust the populist racism and anti-intellectualism of the GOP. 

In general, middle-class minorities are well-disciplined, well-behaved people -- which may explain their participation in formal organizations, high educational achievement, low crime rates, operation of small businesses, and willingness to uplift such poor among them. (White middle-class gentiles not in these groups are more likely to seek employment in public and private bureaucracies and do little for poor whites). The GOP has been cultivating resentment toward ethnic and religious minorities and toward educational success, which both handcuff people who have little more than the myth of white privilege. 

People who would have been in a once-large center-right ("Eisenhower Republicans" or "Rockefeller Republicans") thirty years ago have no place in a right-wing, populist party. What has happened is that the center-right has gone to the Democratic Party. It believes in enterprise, thrift, formal education, formal education, and modest behavior. If it does not go for hawkish patriotism, it is for a strong defense and a coherent foreign policy.

The Blue America of our time voted heavily for Eisenhower in the 1950's and almost as heavily (except in the Great Plains) for Obama in 2008. Consider that in 2008 Obama won only one state (North Carolina, and barely) that Eisenhower lost even once and in 2012 won only states that Eisenhower won twice. It's not that the core values of regions have changed; it is party affiliation that has changed. Richard Nixon started the Southern Strategy to woo southern whites that would not succeed until the Reagan landslides of 1980 and 1984. Note well that the anti-populist, anti-segregationist "Eisenhower/Rockefeller Republicans" have never been compatible with the politics of the racist, anti-intellectual, populist, and heavily-agrarian South. Nixon tried to build a Big Tent GOP, but a Big Tent fails when constituencies within it prove incompatible. OK, Trump has governed as if he has a Big Tent, but he has tried to force the culture of the populist South upon people incompatible with it, and that ensures political failure even without pervasive scandals.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


Reply
#39
(12-01-2019, 04:13 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:
(12-01-2019, 10:33 AM)David Horn Wrote: The original communists and socialists were monks and cloistered nuns, so don't try to link the two.  It's a bad fit.  If you want to argue that secularism is destroying the fabric of society, and that's covered pretty well in the linked article above, then feel free to bring some evidence.  Right now, the most stable families are among the secular elite, of course they have the resources needed to make that happen.  In general, Blue areas of the country have much lower levels of teen births and single motherhood that's unplanned.  The most fragmented in all categories: the rural poor.

True, the originals did it differently than their modern predecessors are doing it/attempting to do it today. How many blues would be willing to fight and die for their country these days? How many would be willing to sacrifice themselves to save a friend or a family member or a unborn baby these days? Do you really want to go there with me? I have no druthers when it comes to talking about liberal people these days. Like I've said, its hard to accuse me of getting my information about liberals from conservative groups or conservative spokesmen or radio stars when I here processing information and learning first hand. Are you to dense to figure out and an understand that's what's happening here? The psychological war blues have been waging ain't over yet buddy. Are you at the point of winning it or losing it at this point? I have my opinion but I'd like to here your opinion.

What information do you think you've garnered first hand?  I live in an exurban, extremely Red area, and the people here tend to be wonderful, one-on-one.  That said, they are uniformly unwilling to give anyone anything unless they know them personally -- even when it's in their own best interests.  I've given up discussing any of this with them, because facts, no matter how obvious, don't impact the discussion at all.  They say, "I don't believe it" or It's a lie", or they say it's true but they just don't care.  So who is waging war here, exactly?  

Saying 'the grass is green' is a simple statement of fact, not an indictment of the lawn.  It's hard to argue that this is psychological warfare, when the facts all align on one side … and it's not yours.  Are we winning with the facts?  It's hard to say.  Eventually, the facts always win, but eventually can be a long time.  The HUAC hearings in the 1950s destroyed the lives of hundreds to thousands of people with less than rock-rib rightwing political leanings.  With very few exceptions, those people were totally innocent.  Now, it's happening again, and it's a large part of the 4T this time.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
Reply
#40
(12-01-2019, 03:02 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:
(11-29-2019, 05:16 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: "you are expected to conform and vote Republican"? What kind of crap is that? Doesn't America have secret ballots?

Yes, and yet these areas do vote Republican by margins of 4 or 5 to one. That's conformity. If you don't agree, you keep your mouth shut and have no influence. Those 4 or 5 to 1 stats are quite verifiable in most rural and small-town, white-dominated counties in America. You can check it out. And people in those areas do not have access to much besides Fox News, Christian broadcasts and right-wing talk radio, and they are more susceptible to conspiracy theory and fake news, which they take as gospel.
Dude, we all have access to the national broadcast channels ABC, NBC, CBS and most likely Fox too these days. What's your opinion of the urban areas that vote Democratic by margins of 8 to 2 these days? Do you have a problem with that issue? I don't a problem with that at all and I'm pretty sure the Republicans don't have an issue with that either.
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