Careers ruined or at risk from accusations of sexual misconduct

[Bill the Piper]

It's sad Neil deGrasse Tyson mistreated women. I enjoyed his idea of the cosmic perspective, but it didn't make him better. He doesn't practise what he preaches. But I still love the Cosmos series, and look forward to watching new episodes in spring.

[David Horn]

(01-24-2019, 04:52 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(01-24-2019, 10:30 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-23-2019, 10:16 PM)taramarie Wrote: Oh hell and seeing some of these comments probably some guys here wont believe either. So basically i was ...we will say fiddled with till i was bleeding and yes i was penetrated painfully...i was 5 years old. My mother stormed the school about it. I was cornered into a cubical in the girls toilets, locked in there, beaten up, fiddled with and threatened for months till my mother noticed the injuried and the bleeding from trauma there. So yes. That is the definition of repeated sexual abuse. I am not one of those making things up. Since age 5 i have had cptsd and it causes me to have panic attacks where i freeze, stop breathing and i black out. A few years ago i was forcefully raped repetitively too. Neither i can give "documentation" for. I was alone both times locked somewhere and its hard to provide proof when one is locked in somewhere alone and being violated and silenced out of fear. As my attackers have said, worse will come if you say anything. As a child that worse did come and it hurt.

Wow!  I'm sorry you had to experience any of this.  You're brave to share it here.  Here's hoping for better in the future.  Any form of PTSD is hard to manage, but the complex variant is the worst.

My boyfriend also went through traumatic sexual abuse. From a family member actually. For years. It has hurt him in all ways. We have been suggested by his therapist to go into tantric counselling together as it was mental and physical abuse we went through so we should experience the opposite of that, hence...tantra. But also to explore the psychological and make peace with it. So, tantra can help with that balance of the whole. We will be seeing if it is right for us first.
So hopefully there is a better future but we know that we are healing already as we bond so well already.

Best of luck to you both.

[Hintergrund]

Nassim Taleb is right: Today, any taxi driver has a safer job than a politician. Some sexual misconduct, and the career's over for the latter.

[pbrower2a]

I'd say that

(1) being a lobbyist and a former Party chair for the dominant Party in the state makes one significant, as the line between electoral politics and lobbying is thin, and

(2) risking a felony conviction is very much at risk.

This said, the thread got lost for lack of use. It is still relevant, and as the 4T gets increasingly serious, personal misconduct, especially if sexual in theme, gets increasingly-severe consequences.

Quote:Boise Police on Thursday arrested Jonathan Parker — a lobbyist and former Idaho Republican Party chairman — and booked him into the Ada County Jail on a felony first-degree stalking charge.

According to the criminal complaint, on or between May 16 and May 30, Parker “did knowingly and maliciously engage” in conduct that “seriously alarmed, annoyed or harassed (his wife) Kelly Parker.” The complaint states that Parker’s conduct included “repeatedly hiding in bushes, masturbating, disguising himself with a wig” at or near her apartment complex.

On May 30, police said they received a call about a man acting strangely near homes in the 300 block of N. Whitewater Park Blvd. Officers made contact with that man and identified him as Parker. Further investigation revealed that there is an active protection order between Parker and a woman living nearby — his wife — and Parker was then arrested.

Parker and his wife are in divorce proceedings and a temporary restraining order is in place until the divorce is adjudicated.


Parker, 39, was arraigned Friday afternoon in Ada County district court. During his video arraignment, the prosecutor told the judge that police responded to a report of a man looking into windows and fondling himself. When police arrived, they learned that Parker’s estranged wife lived in the complex.


Parker told police that he was there to scare a different female, but police said they were not able to contact this person. The prosecutor also noted that Parker’s estranged wife has previously reported him staring into her windows.


Former GOP Idaho attorney general David Leroy represented Parker during the arraignment. Leroy told the judge that the incident was a “grand misunderstanding” and that Parker had been invited to a costume party at the apartment complex.


The judge set bond at $80,000 and issued a no-contact order, which bars Parker from getting within 500 feet of his wife.


Parker’s preliminary hearing is set for 8:30 a.m. June 14.

Parker resigned from his GOP post on Feb. 18.

Read more here: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/poli...rylink=cpy

Disgusting, huh? You would think that political figures would learn from the examples of others.

[beechnut79]

(06-02-2019, 12:10 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I'd say that

(1) being a lobbyist and a former Party chair for the dominant Party in the state makes one significant, as the line between electoral politics and lobbying is thin, and

(2) risking a felony conviction is very much at risk.

This said, the thread got lost for lack of use. It is still relevant, and as the 4T gets increasingly serious, personal misconduct, especially if sexual in theme, gets increasingly-severe consequences.

Quote:Boise Police on Thursday arrested Jonathan Parker — a lobbyist and former Idaho Republican Party chairman — and booked him into the Ada County Jail on a felony first-degree stalking charge.

According to the criminal complaint, on or between May 16 and May 30, Parker “did knowingly and maliciously engage” in conduct that “seriously alarmed, annoyed or harassed (his wife) Kelly Parker.” The complaint states that Parker’s conduct included “repeatedly hiding in bushes, masturbating, disguising himself with a wig” at or near her apartment complex.

On May 30, police said they received a call about a man acting strangely near homes in the 300 block of N. Whitewater Park Blvd. Officers made contact with that man and identified him as Parker. Further investigation revealed that there is an active protection order between Parker and a woman living nearby — his wife — and Parker was then arrested.

Parker and his wife are in divorce proceedings and a temporary restraining order is in place until the divorce is adjudicated.


Parker, 39, was arraigned Friday afternoon in Ada County district court. During his video arraignment, the prosecutor told the judge that police responded to a report of a man looking into windows and fondling himself. When police arrived, they learned that Parker’s estranged wife lived in the complex.


Parker told police that he was there to scare a different female, but police said they were not able to contact this person. The prosecutor also noted that Parker’s estranged wife has previously reported him staring into her windows.


Former GOP Idaho attorney general David Leroy represented Parker during the arraignment. Leroy told the judge that the incident was a “grand misunderstanding” and that Parker had been invited to a costume party at the apartment complex.


The judge set bond at $80,000 and issued a no-contact order, which bars Parker from getting within 500 feet of his wife.


Parker’s preliminary hearing is set for 8:30 a.m. June 14.

Parker resigned from his GOP post on Feb. 18.

Read more here: https://www.idahostatesman.com/news/poli...rylink=cpy

Disgusting, huh? You would think that political figures would learn from the examples of others.

While there were many corrections that needed to be made, the unfortunate byproduct of all the crackdowns has cause political correctness to really get out of hand. Even a sincere compliment in some cases can be seen in some circles and suspicion of harassment.  Very often there could be some misunderstandings which can cause much friction and embarrassments to say the least. This does not in any way excuse obvious abusers such as Cosby and Weinstein. Yet both were able to get away with their misdeeds for many years. Even in the heady Awakening years you or I probably couldn't have. Each case should be considered on its merit.

[pbrower2a]

(06-03-2019, 12:38 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: While there were many corrections that needed to be made, the unfortunate byproduct of all the crackdowns has cause political correctness to really get out of hand. Even a sincere compliment in some cases can be seen in some circles and suspicion of harassment.  Very often there could be some misunderstandings which can cause much friction and embarrassments to say the least. This does not in any way excuse obvious abusers such as Cosby and Weinstein. Yet both were able to get away with their misdeeds for many years. Even in the heady Awakening years you or I probably couldn't have. Each case should be considered on its merit.

I have never been in the entertainment industry, but if I were I would be wary of any risk of exposure of myself. Good reason exists to keep a squeaky-clean image even in Hollywood. The most controversial thing I could imagine doing in personal life if I were in the entertainment industry would be to marry some nice Jewish woman and convert to Judaism -- because I am from an antisemitic family. Characters? Everybody does a bad guy at one time or another. Even Charlie Chaplin played a serial killer in Monsieur Verdoux. Would I have accepted a role as Frank or Jesse James? A Nazi war criminal? One of Stalin's henchmen? Pontius Pilate? Nebuchadnezzar? Sure! On such a role I would build evil into the character to the extent possible.

But with a modest-paying line of work, I would lack the money for blowing it on gold-diggers just to get some time in the sack  with them. I distrust drugs (OK, that goes with Asperger's syndrome*), so I would not use drugs as a lure. Sex with someone high on drugs doesn't sound sexy. It would be difficult to get away with such if one has responsibilities on the job. Mess with a subordinate? You will be fired!

The problem with the  entertainment industry is that there is so much money and so little personal accountability. If one is bringing money into the entertainment industry, one can get away with much -- until one risks going to prison. Cosby was an extremely-good actor in hiding his real nastiness as a person.

.........................


On the politician in question -- remember the phrase "innocent until proved guilty". But this behavior is creepy even should he not be convicted. Maybe he just has a screw loose.

*I have to put on an act just to seem normal.

[pbrower2a]

Megachurch leader busted -- child sexual abuse


PALM SPRINGS, Calif. — A placard bearing Naasón Joaquín García's name outside La Luz del Mundo church in Palm Springs greets congregants who stream in and out of the church for morning prayer and evening services each day.
García, the self-proclaimed apostle and leader of the Mexico-based church that counts 1 million followers, was arrested Tuesday in Los Angeles and charged with 26 felony counts, including child rape, trafficking and child pornography. California authorities also arrested two others affiliated with the church, and a third is at large. 

The allegations sent shock waves throughout congregations across the U.S. Church leaders issued a statement categorically denying the allegations outlined in a 19-page complaint filed by California Attorney General Xavier Becerra's office.

Congregants at the church, whose name translates to the Light of the World, on Wednesday prayed for García, and some became overwhelmed with emotion, said Anahi Medina, a longtime member of the church, who left Wednesday's prayer session about noon.

"We were crying," said Medina, 30. "Some sisters were talking in tongues. We were crying to God for him to see our hearts."

Medina, who has belonged to the church since she was a child, said prayers typically center on asking God to care for their families and others. But Wednesday, "we asked God, 'Let this all come to light and clear up and show the world this is not true.'"

from USA Today

[Hintergrund]

Good riddance.

[pbrower2a]

The Devil can cite Scripture if it serves his purposes.

[pbrower2a]

HOUSTON (AP) — A former Southern Baptist pastor who supported legislation in Texas that would have criminalized abortions has been arrested on charges of child sex abuse, accused of repeatedly molesting a teenage relative over the course of two years.

Stephen Bratton is accused of subjecting the relative to inappropriate touching that escalated to “sexual intercourse multiple times a day or several times a week” from 2013 to 2015, according to Thomas Gilliland, a spokesman with the Harris County Sheriff’s Office.

Court records show Bratton, 43, posted a $50,000 bond Saturday, The Houston Chronicle reported.


.....

Bratton, who is a father of seven, was outspoken in support of a Texas bill that would have abolished abortions and charged women with homicide if they underwent the procedure. That level of offense can be punishable by the death penalty under Texas law.

Bratton publicly testified in support of the bill in April. The measure never got a vote.

“Whoever authorizes or commits murder is guilty,” Bratton said at the hearing. “They’re guilty already in a court that is far more weighty than what is here in Texas.”

https://apnews.com/f89cd9682c3b4fa6abf56aa1a496f2b3

[pbrower2a]

SLEAZE ALERT! SLEAZE ALERT! READ AT YOUR OWN RISK!

‘LONG TIME COMING’

Jeffrey Epstein Arrested for Sex Trafficking of Minors

Jeffrey Epstein was arrested on Saturday and will appear in New York court on Monday to be charged with sex trafficking, according to multiple law enforcement sources.

Billionaire pedophile Jeffrey Epstein was arrested for allegedly sex trafficking dozens of minors in New York and Florida between 2002 and 2005, and will appear in court in New York on Monday, according to three law enforcement sources. Saturday's arrest by the FBI-NYPD Crimes Against Children Task Force comes about 12 years after the 66-year-old financier essentially got a slap on the wrist for allegedly molesting dozens of underage girls in Florida.

For more than a decade, Epstein’s alleged abuse of minors has been the subject of lawsuits brought by victims, investigations by local and federal authorities, and exposés in the press. But despite the attention cast on his alleged sex crimes, the hedge-funder has managed to avoid any meaningful jail time, let alone federal charges.

The new indictment—which, according to two sources, will be unsealed Monday in Manhattan federal court—will reportedly allege that Epstein sexually exploited dozens of underage girls in a now-familiar scheme: paying them cash for "massages" and then molesting or sexually abusing them in his Upper East Side mansion or his palatial residence in Palm Beach. Epstein will be charged with one count of sex trafficking of minors and one count of conspiracy to engage in sex trafficking of minors—which could put him away for a maximum of 45 years. The case is being handled by the Public Corruption Unit of the Southern District of New York, with assistance from the district's human-trafficking officials and the FBI.

Several of the billionaire's employees and associates allegedly recruited the girls for Epstein's abuse, and some victims eventually became recruiters themselves, according to law enforcement. The girls were as young as 14, and Epstein knew they were underage, according to details of the arrest and indictment shared by two officials.

Epstein's attorney Martin Weinberg declined to comment when reached by The Daily Beast on Saturday night. The SDNY also declined to comment.

“It’s been a long time coming—it’s been too long coming,” said attorney David Boies, who represents Epstein accusers Virginia Roberts Giuffre and Sarah Ransome. “It is an important step towards getting justice for the many victims of Mr. Epstein’s sex trafficking enterprise.
“We hope that prosecutors will not stop with Mr. Epstein because there were many other people who participated with him and made the sex trafficking possible," he told The Daily Beast.

In an era where #MeToo has toppled powerful men, Epstein’s name was largely absent from the national conversation, until the Miami Herald published a three-part series on how his wealth, power and influence shielded him from federal prosecution. For years, The Daily Beast has reported on Epstein’s alleged abuse, starting with Conchita Sarnoff's exposes on his easy jail sentence and soft treatment by the U.S. Attorney’s Office, which ultimately scrapped a 53-page indictment against Epstein. An earlier version of Epstein’s plea deal included a 10-year federal sentence—before his star-studded lawyers threatened to go to trial in a case prosecutors feared was unwinnable, in part because Epstein’s team dredged up dirt on the victims, including social media posts indicating drug use.

Meanwhile, the financier flitted among his homes in Palm Beach, New York City, and the Virgin Islands, as well as his secluded Zorro Ranch in Stanley, New Mexico, transporting young women on his private jet to facilitate the sexual abuse that’s gone unchecked by authorities, his alleged victims say.

In an announcement planned for Monday the FBI is expected to provide a number for other victims to contact the SDNY.


As early as 2003, Vicky Ward’s Vanity Fair profile cracked into Epstein’s enigmatic facade and, as Ward noted, revealed “he was definitely not what he claimed to be.” Back then, allegations of sexual abuse leveled by one accuser, Maria Farmer, and her family were excised from Ward’s piece after Epstein pressured the magazine.

Epstein’s bust comes mere months after a federal judge ruled his 2007 non-prosecution agreement (NPA)—secretly inked under former U.S. Attorney and current Labor Secretary Alexander Acosta—violated federal law by keeping Epstein’s victims in the dark. Under the sweetheart deal, Epstein dodged federal charges that might have sent him to prison for life. He instead pleaded guilty to minor state charges in Palm Beach, and served 13 months in a private wing of a county jail, mostly on work release.


The alleged victims, who sued the government for violating the Crime Victims’ Rights Act, asked the court to rescind Epstein’s non-prosecution agreement and called for the feds to hold him criminally liable. The NPA also granted immunity to Epstein’s co-conspirators, identified in the document as “including but not limited to Sarah Kellen, Adriana Ross, Lesley Groff, or Nadia Marcinkova.”
But in June, prosecutors for the government advised the judge to uphold the plea deal, saying that voiding it would “cause unintended harm to many of” the victims and jeopardize monetary settlements that more than a dozen of them received.

"If today’s report is true, it only proves that Epstein should have been charged by federal prosecutors 12 years ago in Florida. With his money, Epstein was able to buy more than a decade of delay in facing justice—but fortunately he wasn’t able to postpone justice forever," said attorney Paul Cassell, who represents multiple victims of Epstein in their lawsuit against the federal government.
"While New York prosecutors are apparently seeking to hold Epstein accountable, the fight will continue to force federal prosecutors in Florida to do the same thing," Cassell added in a statement. "While Epstein was at the head of the international sex trafficking organization, that conspiracy could not have functioned without many others playing their part. Jane Doe 1 and 2 will continue to fight for all of Epstein’s co-conspirators to be held accountable in New York, Florida, and anywhere else they committed crimes."

Epstein reportedly supplied valuable intel to federal investigators in exchange for his lenient plea deal; it’s been speculated this information may have been related to Bear Stearns executives’ alleged crimes in the lead-up to the 2008 financial crisis.

According to one Page Six report, Epstein lost $57 million in Bear Stearns’ collapse and was a victim identified as “Major Investor No. 1” in the indictment of hedge-fund managers Ralph Cioffi and Matthew Tanin. (A federal jury acquitted Cioffi and Tanin of securities fraud charges.) But in March 2019, FOX Business reported that Epstein “did not provide any meaningful cooperation to obtain his relatively light sentence in the hedge fund case or likely any case tied to the financial crisis.” Jack Goldberger, one of Epstein’s attorneys in the Palm Beach sex crimes case, told FOX of the Bear Stearns’ prosecution, “Mr. Epstein was never spoken to by any of the authorities on this subject. He was a very large investor. No more, no less.”

One former federal prosecutor on the Bear Stearns case agreed. “Bottom line, I have no knowledge of Epstein cooperating in any way in the Bear Stearns case. There was no reason to use him,” the ex-prosecutor told FOX.

Epstein’s Victims

Once a math teacher at the elite Dalton School, Jeffrey Epstein left for Bear Stearns before starting his own firm, J. Epstein & Co., which supposedly only managed the fortunes of billionaires. Les Wexner, chairman of Limited Brands, is his only known client. (In April 2019, a new accuser came forward with claims that Epstein and his alleged madame, Ghislaine Maxwell, assaulted her at Wexner’s Ohio residence in the 1990s. Epstein, Maxwell and Wexner have not commented on these allegations.)
Epstein’s financial career has always been shrouded in mystery.

Over the years, Epstein billed himself as a renowned philanthropist and pledged $30 million for Harvard’s Program for Evolutionary Dynamics. He’s palled around with a host of famous faces including Donald Trump and Bill Clinton; the latter traveled with Epstein to Africa to address issues like economic development and AIDS.

In a 2002 profile in New York, one fellow Wall Streeter described Epstein as a “mysterious, Gatsbyesque figure” who “likes people to think that he is very rich” and “cultivates this air of aloofness.” Another prominent investor added: “He once told me he had 300 people working for him, and I’ve also heard that he manages Rockefeller money. But one never knows. It’s like looking at the Wizard of Oz—there may be less there than meets the eye.”

Vanity Fair’s 2003 take on Epstein compared him to the self-made Jay Gatsby, too. “The trading desks don’t seem to know him. It’s unusual for animals that big not to leave any footprints in the snow,” one insider told the magazine.
During his high-flying finance years, Epstein also allegedly harbored a dark secret: his widespread abuse of underage girls. In 2005, Palm Beach police launched an investigation into Epstein after a 14-year-old girl told police an older man named “Jeff” had molested her at his residence, a two-story pink mansion on a dead-end street.

Authorities would discover a disturbing teen sex ring, where victims were allegedly paid to recruit other young girls to provide “massages” inside Epstein’s lair. The victims would be led to Epstein’s bedroom, and Epstein would enter and order them to remove their clothing, police said. The financier would then assault them—sometimes forcing them into intercourse with him or a young woman he described as his “sex slave”—and pay them $200 to $1,000 per visit, according to court documents.

Police say Epstein’s massages were booked with the help of his personal assistants, including Sarah Kellen, who kept a rolodex of underage girls.

But as The Daily Beast previously reported, the state attorney’s office in Palm Beach declined to pursue serious charges against Epstein (filing only a single felony count of soliciting prostitution), claiming the girls weren’t credible. The local police chief, Michael Reiter, accused prosecutors of giving Epstein special treatment and in 2006 referred the case to the FBI. By May 2007, the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Miami drafted a 53-page indictment against Epstein, alongside an 82-page prosecution memorandum. That summer, however, Epstein’s lawyers worked to unravel the case, claiming Epstein wasn’t guilty of any federal crimes.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/jeffrey-ep...ors-source

[beechnut79]

(11-29-2017, 01:40 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: This forum is for prominent persons fired, removed under pressure, or otherwise disgraced for sexual harassment.

One pattern of a Crisis Era is that certain behaviors that used to be sloughed off in an Awakening Era or an Unraveling Era are no longer tolerated. We had Bill Cosby a couple years ago; NBC, which was contemplating production of a new show with him, stopped production. The less said of Jerry Sandusky and Dennis Hastert, the better. Roger Ailes and Bill O'Reilly got dumped at FoX Propaganda Channel.

But the heads seem to be falling from the chopping block, so to speak. Harvey Weinstein, Kevin Spacey, Charlie Rose, Sylvester Stallone, John Lithgow, Matt Lauer, Garrison Keillor. Roy Moore, should he be defeated in the polls, would qualify then, as he would if expelled from the Senate. Political figures Al Franken and John Conyers hang onto political office by a thread. All so far are male and most are comparatively old. For some, their careers may have been over (Sylvester Stallone had retired from film acting).  This may be one way for younger executives to advance, the time-honored practice of greasing the skids for an older boss who isn't up to the task.  

I have yet to see giant firms in commerce cast people off for such... no investment bankers or oil barons yet. Such companies are more secretive about decisions to hire and fire. I have yet to se any prominent college professors or heads of non-profits dumped (aside from PBS and NPR which are non-profit media), either.

Don't get me wrong. Sexual harassment is not a perquisite of high office in commerce, academia, politics, or media. People are being ruined as if they were exposed as Commies during the Red Scare of the 1950s. But there seems to be more documentation now.

I suggest that we have some documentation.

Regarding your second paragraph, keep in mind that most of the major crackdowns not only on sexual harassment but also on such things as public smoking, drunk driving and animal cruelty actually manifested during the 3T, the former with the Clarence Thomas/Anita Hill saga. In the book it even said that the 3T is a time of declining tolerance for aberrant personal behavior. Some of these though may be amplified within a 4T although I had always felt that this is when we turn the corner and become more tolerant again. Example being the repeal of Prohibition during the last 4T. Though that may have occurred as a tool by which to stimulate the economy in the midst of the Great Depression.

[beechnut79]

(11-30-2017, 01:18 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-29-2017, 03:06 PM)rds Wrote: Good idea for a list.  It seems the voices of prominent liberals are being silenced.  As far as I can tell, the right wing couldn't care less if someone is a sexual fiend as long as that fiend is in favor of enriching the 1%.

This is an issue that won't die quickly.  If conservative women continue to support offenders because they support their political agenda, then they are just 20 years behind the feminists who supported Bill Clinton for the same reason ... which begs the question: is there a split in society that has actually created a schism in the saeculum?  Is the RW running on a different timeline?  If the RW is still 3T, then we have bigger problems than this, big as it is.

Yet someone I sometimes talk to, a woman BTW, has indicated the feeling that such movements as #MeToo and Black Lives Matter will lose their relevance over the long run.

[beechnut79]

(11-30-2017, 01:28 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-30-2017, 03:03 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-29-2017, 01:40 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: ... Don't get me wrong. Sexual harassment is not a perquisite of high office in commerce, academia, politics, or media. People are being ruined as if they were exposed as Commies during the Red Scare of the 1950s. But there seems to be more documentation now.

I suggest that we have some documentation.

Documentation or admission of guilt would be good.  So far, we have that for Franken and Biden.

Biden?  His only offense, if that actually qualifies as such, is his handling of the Anita Hill accusations against Clarence Thomas.  Is that a disqualifier: no!  His age, on the other hand, really is.  We may have the second case of an older President with dementia.  Trump is certainly coming apart at the seams, and we know that Reagan was failing during his second term.  Another old guy is just not in the cards.

But yet Sanders is older than either of them, and he is considered very viable although I would be very surprised if he wins. If he gets the nomination, he should definitely choose a younger candidate for VP. His own son Levi perhaps?

[beechnut79]

(12-16-2017, 04:26 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Dustin Hoffman was apparently doing this when Carter was President -- back in the Boom Awakening.

The Sexual Revolution was an unmitigated disaster for children. That's when male homosexuality expressed itself as the now-disgraced NAMbLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association)... not to say that little girls weren't prey for men, too.  The repudiation of predatory sexuality proceeded sporadically and with practical reversals through the degenerate Culture Wars when such behavior was likely to be covered up if there was no dead body with signs of sexual misconduct  lying around. Bureaucratic organizations covered up sexual harassment with insurance settlements that made the cost of doing business needlessly expensive.

Child sexual abuse was never really legal during the Boom Awakening, but it was easy to get away with. If one turned out profitable films as did Roman Polanski, one could get away with great misconduct. And let's not forget the First Fornicator, Bill Clinton.

The times are changing, and they are changing fast. Sure, we have same-sex marriage -- sure, because mainstream gays and lesbians threw the perverts in front of the bus. Not that that was wrong. Homosexuality is no more a choice than (pardon the repetition) Asperger's syndrome. I have no use for violence against gays and lesbians, having been mistaken for a homosexual and threatened with a beating. Aside from same-sex marriage and acceptance of transgender rights, we are entering a more repressive time for sexuality.

I doubt that we will quite return to arranged marriages, but there is good reason for dating sites that function in many ways like Yenta* in Fiddler on the Roof.  There might be good reason to consider dates involving co-workers, as people get to know co-workers very well. Just avoid dangerous obsession.  

The message coming out of the entertainment, news, and political sectors so clearly now may be less visible in academia and Corporate America... sexual harassment is no longer a prerogative of power. The idea that sexual harassment and exploitation demonstrate the reality of alpha males (mostly) may be repudiated. It is happening fast. Rapidly-moving events and trends show the quickening pace of a Crisis Era.

*Maybe I could have used an encounter with someone of the type back in the late '70s or early '80s. I needed to get involved with someone who would push me some and be able to say NO to me when I became a crashing bore. Probably some feminist... but any woman who got mixed up with me would have become a feminist if she wasn/t one to begin with.

I shall now attempt a breakdown in response to this post, paragraph by paragraph:

During the time Carter was President, while many considered him boring and ineffective, sexual dalliances became almost normal behavior albeit not near the extent of becoming an "anything goes" world.

I happen to be one person who misses much of the euphoria of the sexual revolution days and hope that sometimes before my days come to an end we can go back to the spirit of having fund again. Right now there is a movement to at least decriminalize if not totally legalize sex work, and if successful could prove a boom to some rural counties in states other than Nevada which has already done so. It could also make it more affordable to the masses. Right now average cost of a personal escort is from 300 to 500 dollars per hour, totally out of reach of all but the top 9 or 10 percent income wise. Am I in the extreme minority as one who misses the fervor of those freer, more swinging times?

Underage sex was already being cracked down upon more even by the last 2T. A perfect example of how we had lost our innocent was with a song titled "You're Sixteen". When the original version by Johnny Burnette topped the charts in the early 1960s it was considered an innocent song of admiration for one's girlfriend. But by the time Ringo Star did the remake of it a decade later there was all this warning that if you mess with someone that age you could go to jail. Such talk was for the most part absent when the original version was on the charts.

As for Paragraph 4, I also have been mistaken for a homo, and had the word "fag" shouted out to me a few times. Was once even propositioned by a gay hooker. Told him he had the wrong person. I too am an Aspie, but I had a different approach than you did. If I were ever going to write an autobiography the title would probably be "Ladies' Man Dreams". Am even considering creating a separate thread with this title. I long held the dream of being this man who could have a different woman on his arm nearly every night. Even with Aspergers I still managed a mock version of such during the 1970s and 1980s, when there were plenty of low budget dating services around. I did get my share of dates through these services. However, there were a significant number of cancellations and many of said dating situation were of the "one and done" variety. I did not do well, however, in social clubs. I was primarily a member of two of them and felt like I was pretty much a black sheep at both. I was called on the carpet for actions such as putting my arm around some of the women even though other men not in a steady relationship with said women seemed to be able to get away with it. Such made me feel misunderstood, and yet I did not want to isolate myself until many, many years later. You seem to have indicated on posts  here that this was the route you took when you became aware of your condition. Remember, Aspergers didn't become official until 1994. And it was five years after that before I learned why I did not have a normal growing up experience. Back then those who for some reason didn't fit in with the larger society were sent to languish in boarding schools as children and later in places such as sanitariums as adults. The former was my domain for so many years that once I finally did get the opportunity pleasure became my number one priority. Probably would still be today except that I could never afford the price tag for it. I am now wondering if it is possible to look at the situation another way and be able to find some middle ground that allows everyone to move forward with their feelings and dignity intact. I don't believe anyone can become a successful ladies' man in his 70s. Do you? And do you feel that the very term "ladies' man" is more derogatory than it once was? And does it take the trifecta of lots of money, killer good looks and designer clothes to get the job done?

[David Horn]

(07-09-2019, 09:35 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(11-30-2017, 01:18 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(11-29-2017, 03:06 PM)rds Wrote: Good idea for a list.  It seems the voices of prominent liberals are being silenced.  As far as I can tell, the right wing couldn't care less if someone is a sexual fiend as long as that fiend is in favor of enriching the 1%.

This is an issue that won't die quickly.  If conservative women continue to support offenders because they support their political agenda, then they are just 20 years behind the feminists who supported Bill Clinton for the same reason ... which begs the question: is there a split in society that has actually created a schism in the saeculum?  Is the RW running on a different timeline?  If the RW is still 3T, then we have bigger problems than this, big as it is.

Yet someone I sometimes talk to, a woman BTW, has indicated the feeling that such movements as #MeToo and Black Lives Matter will lose their relevance over the long run.

Of course they will, because they each have an absolutist image that can easily be tarnished by one contradiction.  Let's agree:  not all women are correct and honorable, nor are all people of color.  Taking the position that they are is a prescription for failure.  Both movements would do better if they admitted that they support and are strong advocates for most but not all complainants in their respective groups, but will hold those abusing their trust fully accountable.

[pbrower2a]

(07-09-2019, 10:01 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(12-16-2017, 04:26 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Dustin Hoffman was apparently doing this when Carter was President -- back in the Boom Awakening.

The Sexual Revolution was an unmitigated disaster for children. That's when male homosexuality expressed itself as the now-disgraced NAMbLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association)... not to say that little girls weren't prey for men, too.  The repudiation of predatory sexuality proceeded sporadically and with practical reversals through the degenerate Culture Wars when such behavior was likely to be covered up if there was no dead body with signs of sexual misconduct  lying around. Bureaucratic organizations covered up sexual harassment with insurance settlements that made the cost of doing business needlessly expensive.

Child sexual abuse was never really legal during the Boom Awakening, but it was easy to get away with. If one turned out profitable films as did Roman Polanski, one could get away with great misconduct. And let's not forget the First Fornicator, Bill Clinton.

The times are changing, and they are changing fast. Sure, we have same-sex marriage -- sure, because mainstream gays and lesbians threw the perverts in front of the bus. Not that that was wrong. Homosexuality is no more a choice than (pardon the repetition) Asperger's syndrome. I have no use for violence against gays and lesbians, having been mistaken for a homosexual and threatened with a beating. Aside from same-sex marriage and acceptance of transgender rights, we are entering a more repressive time for sexuality.

I doubt that we will quite return to arranged marriages, but there is good reason for dating sites that function in many ways like Yenta* in Fiddler on the Roof.  There might be good reason to consider dates involving co-workers, as people get to know co-workers very well. Just avoid dangerous obsession.  

The message coming out of the entertainment, news, and political sectors so clearly now may be less visible in academia and Corporate America... sexual harassment is no longer a prerogative of power. The idea that sexual harassment and exploitation demonstrate the reality of alpha males (mostly) may be repudiated. It is happening fast. Rapidly-moving events and trends show the quickening pace of a Crisis Era.

*Maybe I could have used an encounter with someone of the type back in the late '70s or early '80s. I needed to get involved with someone who would push me some and be able to say NO to me when I became a crashing bore. Probably some feminist... but any woman who got mixed up with me would have become a feminist if she wasn/t one to begin with.

I shall now attempt a breakdown in response to this post, paragraph by paragraph:

During the time Carter was President, while many considered him boring and ineffective, sexual dalliances became almost normal behavior albeit not near the extent of becoming an "anything goes" world.

as the 2T was morphing into a 3T, and the Carter malaise was about to give way to the flamboyant expressions of 3T indulgence as expressions of elite status or prole pretense... sexuality was as much an expression of such as was going to the mall for some mindless shopping  back then.

Quote:I happen to be one person who misses much of the euphoria of the sexual revolution days and hope that sometimes before my days come to an end we can go back to the spirit of having fun again. Right now there is a movement to at least decriminalize if not totally legalize sex work, and if successful could prove a boom to some rural counties in states other than Nevada which has already done so. It could also make it more affordable to the masses. Right now average cost of a personal escort is from 300 to 500 dollars per hour, totally out of reach of all but the top 9 or 10 percent income wise. Am I in the extreme minority as one who misses the fervor of those freer, more swinging times?

I came of age just as AIDS was beginning to ravage sexual revelers. I got scared. Who knows? With my looks (I had natural hair color -- frosted blond over dark brown -- that women would kill for when I was in my late teens and early twenties, I could carry on a conversation, and I could control myself sexually... maybe I could have been the male equivalent of a female 'escort'? I was brought up in the wrong tradition for becoming such.

A 4T is often a bleak time, and we have the inequity of a degenerate 3T with the morbid fear of a 4T, so this is a particularly-unsettling time. It is easy to wax nostalgic about any prior time  after the last 3T (not that I have ever heard anyone wax nostalgic about the 1920s except about getting their youth back). The last 4T solved lots of problems in America, which makes even it more attractive than what we now endure. Follow the prescriptions of our economic elites, and America will be a nightmare in which economic elites tell the rest of us something  like

Suffer for my greed, power, and indulgence, you peon, or you will experience even greater pain and shame than you can imagine. Don't forget to smile in adulation!... such is exactly what one gets when the ruling elite well fits the description of 'mirror image Marxism' -- believing that capitalism is a cruel, corrupt, hierarchical, and repressive order but that such is right!

Quote:Underage sex was already being cracked down upon more even by the last 2T. A perfect example of how we had lost our innocent was with a song titled "You're Sixteen". When the original version by Johnny Burnette topped the charts in the early 1960s it was considered an innocent song of admiration for one's girlfriend. But by the time Ringo Star did the remake of it a decade later there was all this warning that if you mess with someone that age you could go to jail. Such talk was for the most part absent when the original version was on the charts.

The threat of jail time was out there, but it was not automatic. Maybe it was automatic if one was an eighteen-year old black male caught with a fifteen-year-old white girl... I  remember seeing such a story about twenty years ago, The black male had been raised by a white family, so you can just imagine what his ideas of female beauty was. He would have gotten away with a fifteen-year-old black girl, as I noticed in that discussion in the long-defunct Forums of the New York Times. The system let Roman Polanski get away and apparently let Michael Jackson (and for a time) Bill Cosby get away with it. Aside from recognizing LGBT rights, the American legal system has become much less sympathetic to sexual harassment and outright rape.

Quote:As for Paragraph 4, I also have been mistaken for a homo, and had the word "fag" shouted out to me a few times. Was once even propositioned by a gay hooker. Told him he had the wrong person. I too am an Aspie, but I had a different approach than you did. If I were ever going to write an autobiography the title would probably be "Ladies' Man Dreams". Am even considering creating a separate thread with this title. I long held the dream of being this man who could have a different woman on his arm nearly every night. Even with Aspergers I still managed a mock version of such during the 1970s and 1980s, when there were plenty of low budget dating services around. I did get my share of dates through these services. However, there were a significant number of cancellations and many of said dating situation were of the "one and done" variety. I did not do well, however, in social clubs. I was primarily a member of two of them and felt like I was pretty much a black sheep at both. I was called on the carpet for actions such as putting my arm around some of the women even though other men not in a steady relationship with said women seemed to be able to get away with it. Such made me feel misunderstood, and yet I did not want to isolate myself until many, many years later. You seem to have indicated on posts  here that this was the route you took when you became aware of your condition. Remember, Aspergers didn't become official until 1994. And it was five years after that before I learned why I did not have a normal growing up experience. Back then those who for some reason didn't fit in with the larger society were sent to languish in boarding schools as children and later in places such as sanitariums as adults. The former was my domain for so many years that once I finally did get the opportunity pleasure became my number one priority. Probably would still be today except that I could never afford the price tag for it. I am now wondering if it is possible to look at the situation another way and be able to find some middle ground that allows everyone to move forward with their feelings and dignity intact. I don't believe anyone can become a successful ladies' man in his 70s. Do you? And do you feel that the very term "ladies' man" is more derogatory than it once was? And does it take the trifecta of lots of money, killer good looks and designer clothes to get the job done?

My fantasy has been clearly heterosexual, but in a long-lasting relationship. It would have been outside my ethnic group because my extended family has some real hang-ups on sex. Mostly it is to endorse an insipid culture (hick German-American) that offers little but unexamined tradition. Even the cuisine is awful.

My parents got transferred to northern California about as I was in my teens, and had I stayed there I might have gotten involved with women from a more intellectual tradition (and you can probably figure out what that meant). I found a love for classical music -- and contrary to myth, that is not part of hick-German-American life. (Hick German-Americans listen passively to country music, largely). Maybe musical structure and rich counterpoint could reach me as other music could not.

Wise people do not ratify themselves with material indulgence. Material indulgence is shallow, and it gets in the way of the life of the mind which is more satisfying. In a hard time, I need only go to the public library with some headphones, and I can listen to Bruckner's glorious seventh symphony in the knowledge of its predictable delights drawn over an hour or so -- rather rare knowledge. Material indulgence is more effective at dissipating personal assets than at creating them. I would rather own some profitable vending machines than a glitzy car and extravagant suits or costly (but witless) trips to casinos or amusement parks. I would love to have done some foreign travel, which along with economic security is all that I envy about the rich. Expensive sports cars? One way in which I might seem to brag about my intelligence is that I lost the love for vehicular speed before I was old enough to get a driver's license. I wouldn't know what to do with a sports car any more than a moron would know what to do with the collected works of Plato.

With Aspergers's, many of what are the right choices for others are catastrophic for oneself. In the tough economic times, wise career advice is often to swallow one's pride, do a miserable low-paying job, and wait your turn for an opportunity. Retail sales was one of the worst choices for me. Some people can suffer with a smile, but I am intolerant of such dishonest absurdity. I needed some competent and reliable advice, including some reasonable redirection of purpose. My parents told me to stay clear of the mental health system because of horrible things done to people. Well, I am certifiably not crazy. Maybe too rational for my own good, but that is useful in the right environment. I'm not going to get taken down by drugs and alcohol (one good thing about Asperger's is that one is not subject to addictive behavior from drugs to compulsive gambling), criminality, or driving a car at 120 mph.

So what would have been a happy life been for me? One wife, children (adopted if we don't want children to get a double dose of any genetic causes of Asperger's and become "Rain Man"), modest participation in the American consumer society, some solid investments (that fruit company operating out of Silicon Valley and the e-retailer with the name of a great river that does not flow through the USA, maybe some vending machines for soft drinks and live fishing lures, and perhaps a couple of rental properties) and I get to dress like a physician. That is an ironic choice, but physicians can get away with dressing without style. Maybe a creative hobby on the side. I'd rather paint Half Dome on an easel than climb it.

[pbrower2a]

(07-10-2019, 02:10 AM)taramarie Wrote: Figured this could be a side topic of interest that is in the similar sort of theme to the original topic. I am amused but in disbelief there are literal fossils crawling around the earth who genuinely believe this. It is another form of wishing to control women by making them seem evil. Note he doesn't say male masturbation, but FEMALE masturbation. Why is it that society wishes to control women? For what purpose other than a hard on for domination over the "lesser sex?" Why is it historically men have needed to force their control over women?

Female masturbation can apparently open ‘a portal to hell’

Yes, there is some fossilized behavior and there are fossilized attitudes out there on the subordination of women to men. Such showed itself in the persecution of real and imagined witches. Figure that elderly women going senile or poisoned by rotting grain (especially ergot) were common. They were not going to find themselves any male companionship. They might have sought magical powers because they had no real ones, and that they were were likely to have the affection of cats and to have the one implement (brooms) available. Because the typical broom handle is long, hard, and cylindrical but rounded at its end, 'riding' one might have a masturbatory connotation. Note well that the stereotypical witch was an old hag, an ugly woman past menopause, as opposed to an attractive young woman who might have value to men for bearing children. Ahem. In a world in which superstition and rigid hierarchies prevailed, any women who seemed to have any independence just for being cast-offs were easy prey for religious persecution.

Men were in literal ownership of wives, and thus had exclusive rights to sexual indulgence. Women were compelled to subordinate themselves.

There is an old Danish movie, Haxan (The Witches, 1922) that gets the essence of witchcraft largely right. Part of the "witch" problem is mental illness; part is malnutrition that compels people to eat stale rye bread tainted with ergot (note that LSD, lysergic acid, is a derivative of ergot); part is superstition and male chauvinism rampant in medieval life.






It is still relevant nearly a century later, and quite sympathetic to people who got a bad rap  and often the worst treatment possible -- burning at the stake. Witches are obviously far less evil than the brutes who prevailed in medieval Europe.

[beechnut79]

In the classic song "Turn, Turn, Turn" there is a line that goes: "A time when you may embrace; a time to refrain from embracing." It is very obvious that we have been in the latter mode for at least three full decades now. Do any of you see any indication of a turn in the other direction any time soon?

[David Horn]

(07-11-2019, 09:21 AM)beechnut79 Wrote: In the classic song "Turn, Turn, Turn" there is a line that goes: "A time when you may embrace; a time to refrain from embracing." It is very obvious that we have been in the latter mode for at least three full decades now. Do any of you see any indication of a turn in the other direction any time soon?

Since the actual source is the Book of Ecclesiastes, I'd say the pendulum has been swinging for a long time.