Super-elders

[Bill the Piper]

People who stayed engaged beyond their generational time. I think they can be a beneficial influence, since they are the only ones to have already seen a turning before.

Conrad Adenauer (Missionary), basically re-created Germany during the last 1T.
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher (both GI), did some tidying up after the Countercultural revolution in the early 3T. Although they represented the crudest type of Civic materialism, so I don't see them as good super-elders.
John Paul II (GI), led the Catholic Church throughout the entire 3T (1980-2005)
Benedict XVI and Francis (both Silent), Popes during the current 4T
Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden (Silent). Influenced the Democratic Party during the current 4T.

Also, which boomers do you see as being super-elders during the 1T?

[pbrower2a]

(01-05-2019, 08:04 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People who stayed engaged beyond their generational time. I think they can be a beneficial influence, since they are the only ones to have already seen a turning before.

Conrad Adenauer (Missionary), basically re-created Germany during the last 1T.
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher (both GI), did some tidying up after the Countercultural revolution in the early 3T. Although they represented the crudest type of Civic materialism, so I don't see them as good super-elders.
John Paul II (GI), led the Catholic Church throughout the entire 3T (1980-2005)
Benedict XVI and Francis (both Silent), Popes during the current 4T
Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden (Silent). Influenced the Democratic Party during the current 4T.

Also, which boomers do you see as being super-elders during the 1T?

Early-wave Boomers start turning 76 this year. Does anyone want to guess who stands to live to 90?

Boomers are the lightest smokers in any generation since -- what, the Transcendental Generation? The GI generation has left the Silent clues on how to stay around in very old age: stay active, intellectually and physically, and stay relevant.

Take note also that a year from now the youngest GIs start turning 60. Do not fool yourself: sixty is old.

[Bill the Piper]

(01-05-2019, 08:20 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Early-wave Boomers start turning 76 this year. Does anyone want to guess who stands to live to 90?

It was more about who has the right mindset to stay relevant during the 1T.

Quote:Take note also that a year from now the youngest GIs start turning 60. Do not fool yourself: sixty is old.

What??? The youngest GIs are 92, if you accept 1927 as their final year.

[Eric the Green]

(01-05-2019, 08:20 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(01-05-2019, 08:04 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People who stayed engaged beyond their generational time. I think they can be a beneficial influence, since they are the only ones to have already seen a turning before.

Conrad Adenauer (Missionary), basically re-created Germany during the last 1T.
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher (both GI), did some tidying up after the Countercultural revolution in the early 3T. Although they represented the crudest type of Civic materialism, so I don't see them as good super-elders.
John Paul II (GI), led the Catholic Church throughout the entire 3T (1980-2005)
Benedict XVI and Francis (both Silent), Popes during the current 4T
Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden (Silent). Influenced the Democratic Party during the current 4T.

Also, which boomers do you see as being super-elders during the 1T?

Early-wave Boomers start turning 76 this year. Does anyone want to guess who stands to live to 90?

Boomers are the lightest smokers in any generation since -- what, the Transcendental Generation? The GI generation has left the Silent clues on how to stay around in very old age: stay active, intellectually and physically, and stay relevant.

Take note also that a year from now the youngest GIs start turning 60. Do not fool yourself: sixty is old.

You mean the oldest Gen Xers? 1961 - 2021.

Old is no longer necessarily old; it depends on how your life goes and how you live it.

I think it's A-OK if Xers fool themselves into thinking they are young (to use a word form 1961). They have been fooled as a generation by much worse. A handsome actor GI fooled them.

[Eric the Green]

(01-05-2019, 08:04 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People who stayed engaged beyond their generational time. I think they can be a beneficial influence, since they are the only ones to have already seen a turning before.

Conrad Adenauer (Missionary), basically re-created Germany during the last 1T.
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher (both GI), did some tidying up after the Countercultural revolution in the early 3T. Although they represented the crudest type of Civic materialism, so I don't see them as good super-elders.
John Paul II (GI), led the Catholic Church throughout the entire 3T (1980-2005)
Benedict XVI and Francis (both Silent), Popes during the current 4T
Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden (Silent). Influenced the Democratic Party during the current 4T.

Also, which boomers do you see as being super-elders during the 1T?

Reagan and Thatcher no indeed, and no good for "tidying up" the counter-culture too. Reagan was the lead suppressor of it starting from his days running for Governor of California (I know, I was there). Just my inevitable 2 cents.

But yes they can be beneficial, I agree. 

I especially liked how a 93-year old veteran of the French Resistance helped spark the Arab Spring 2010-2011 era revolts around the world including Occupy Wall Street and the Bernie Sanders campaign with his short book Indignez-vous! (Time for Outrage!), a 32-page pamphlet authored by 93-year-old Stéphane Hessel

https://muse.jhu.edu/article/538792/summary

The old generation can do their best by keeping the original spirit of their youth alive and transmitting it again to the next incarnation of their archetype, as Hessell did. If they make it to 90, they can as Hessell did help to open the turning in which they came of age; thus Hessell helped launch the fourth turning in 2008-2011 which he hoped would keep alive the tradition he played his part in during the previous fourth turning in World War II.

So, the real question, especially for boomers, is what boomers will be super-elders in the next 2T, not the next 1T. Who cares about a 1T anyway? Boomers don't. They care about a 2T. We've been in a stagnant 1T-like condition for 40 years now. We need a new 2T pretty soon. Prophets are supposed to be disappearing but not absent in a 1T.

Lack of fortitude, disciple and character seem a problem for boomers, once often spoiled in childhood and materialistic in middle age. So who will the super-elder boomers be? Besides me, maybe? Well, let's see: who has not been burned out by the first 2T so much, or by the obesity epidemic later, so that they can still make it to the next one? Late wavers, probably, like Terry McAuliffe and Mitch Landrieu. They are healthy and vibrant. Bill McKibben, leader of 350.org. Climate change is going to be around a while; he'll be needed. Leaders in the environmental climate movement also include Al Gore. Ellen DeGeneres seems like a good bet, and Oprah Winfrey. Bill Gates is rich enough to keep himself young if he wants to, but he's not exactly buff and brawny. A number of other boomers also have led the way with the new high tech, such as Berners-Lee, Schmidt, Wozniak, etc., and are still influential. Barack Obama is an Xer by S&H dating, but he seems like a good bet.

That's a good question, food for further thought. They probably won't live much longer after 90; Mr. Hessell died soon after his sensational best-selling tome.

Looking through this list is a good start,
http://all-quote.com/a/baby-boomers-who-...est-impact

[Bill the Piper]

(01-05-2019, 08:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: So, the real question, especially for boomers, is what boomers will be super-elders in the next 2T, not the next 1T. Who cares about a 1T anyway? Boomers don't. They care about a 2T. We've been in a stagnant 1T-like condition for 40 years now. We need a new 2T pretty soon. Prophets are supposed to be disappearing but not absent in a 1T.

In Strauss & Howe's book, they discuss how eightyish Transcendentals inspired the young missionaries.

Obama might be influential during the 2T, he was born in the early 60s, so he might still be alive in 2050. But he is so popular with Millennials, so will the young rebels against the Millennial world-order want to listen to him? What could he have to say that Millennials won't say?

Quote:Looking through this list is a good start,
http://all-quote.com/a/baby-boomers-who-...est-impact

Yay, Bush is the winner! He can be a super-elder during the 1T, if he follows his father's lead and lives beyond 90. And it's not illogical to imagine 100-year-old Dubya speaking to excited young neo-Missionaries in 2046. Isn't that great to see an ancient warrior, who fought terrorists back in the Industrial Age?

Stephen King, as a cultural super-elder? Would the new prophetic generation see some spiritual truth in his writings?

Judge yourself, you're better at this than a Nomad/Civic hybrid like me:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stephen_King

[Eric the Green]

(01-07-2019, 07:50 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote:

(01-05-2019, 08:08 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: So, the real question, especially for boomers, is what boomers will be super-elders in the next 2T, not the next 1T. Who cares about a 1T anyway? Boomers don't. They care about a 2T. We've been in a stagnant 1T-like condition for 40 years now. We need a new 2T pretty soon. Prophets are supposed to be disappearing but not absent in a 1T.

In Strauss & Howe's book, they discuss how eightyish Transcendentals inspired the young missionaries.

Obama might be influential during the 2T, he was born in the early 60s, so he might still be alive in 2050. But he is so popular with Millennials, so will the young rebels against the Millennial world-order want to listen to him? What could he have to say that Millennials won't say?

Quote:Looking through this list is a good start,
http://all-quote.com/a/baby-boomers-who-...est-impact

Yay, Bush is the winner! He can be a super-elder during the 1T, if he follows his father's lead and lives beyond 90. And it's not illogical to imagine 100-year-old Dubya speaking to excited young neo-Missionaries in 2046. Isn't that great to see an ancient warrior, who fought terrorists back in the Industrial Age?

Stephen King, as a cultural super-elder? Would the new prophetic generation see some spiritual truth in his writings?

Judge yourself, you're better at this than a Nomad/Civic hybrid like me:
https://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Stephen_King

Don't get me started on Bush. No, the neo-con vision is not what we need. We don't need to start wars for no reason and go conquer other countries for oil and a false vision of America spreading democracy around the world. That approach is discredited forever more. More democracy in the world is a good goal and, within limits, multi-lateral enforcement of international law and order. But the New American Century Bush sponsored is over.

But imagine the alpha-wave prophets will see much value in the words of their previous prophet forebears like Obama and Stephen King.

"I understand where Bill Maher is coming from when he says, basically, the world is destroying itself over a bunch of fairy tales about talking snakes and men who are alive inside fishes. I'm very sympathetic to it, but at the same time, given the cosmos that we're living in, it's very persuasive, the idea that there is some kind of first cause that's running things. It might not be the god of Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye, it might not be the god of al-Qaida, and it might not be the god of Abraham, but something very well could be running things. The order of the universe as we see it, the interlocking nature, and the way things work together, are persuasive of the idea that there may be some overarching first cause."

Sounds good to me.

[pbrower2a]

With the Lost -- entertainers Jimmy Cagney, Maurice Chevalier, and George Burns. Pianist Artur Rubinstein. Arnold Toynbee, historian.

Did anyone see Mary Poppins Returns? I noticed two very old Silent entertainers in Angela Lansbury and Dick Van Dyke, both born in 1925. Dick Van Dyke can still dance -- at age 92, at the least. Angela Lansbury can still act. We are still talking of people on the GI/Silent cusp, people who have done what GIs did to reach older ages than any previous generation in greater numbers.

[Bill the Piper]

(01-07-2019, 01:51 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: But imagine the alpha-wave prophets will see much value in the words of their previous prophet forebears like Obama and Stephen King.

"I understand where Bill Maher is coming from when he says, basically, the world is destroying itself over a bunch of fairy tales about talking snakes and men who are alive inside fishes. I'm very sympathetic to it, but at the same time, given the cosmos that we're living in, it's very persuasive, the idea that there is some kind of first cause that's running things. It might not be the god of Jerry Jenkins and Tim LaHaye, it might not be the god of al-Qaida, and it might not be the god of Abraham, but something very well could be running things. The order of the universe as we see it, the interlocking nature, and the way things work together, are persuasive of the idea that there may be some overarching first cause."

Sounds good to me.

I cannot believe in any fictional deity of puny human mythologies, but there probably is some cosmic spirit. Olaf Stapledon called Him Star Maker. The universe is fine-tuned for life, the only alternative is ridiculous multiverse theory.

Nice to hear Stephen King believes in Star Maker as well.

[gabrielle]

(01-05-2019, 07:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I think it's A-OK if Xers fool themselves into thinking they are young (to use a word form 1961). They have been fooled as a generation by much worse. A handsome actor GI fooled them.

I recall the older generations also being fooled by him.  He pretty much won by a landslide, and Gen X was only a very small portion of the voting population, after all.  The oldest Gen Xers were only 23 in 1984, the Gipper's re-election year.

[gabrielle]

(01-05-2019, 08:04 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: People who stayed engaged beyond their generational time. I think they can be a beneficial influence, since they are the only ones to have already seen a turning before.

Conrad Adenauer (Missionary), basically re-created Germany during the last 1T.
Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher (both GI), did some tidying up after the Countercultural revolution in the early 3T. Although they represented the crudest type of Civic materialism, so I don't see them as good super-elders.
John Paul II (GI), led the Catholic Church throughout the entire 3T (1980-2005)
Benedict XVI and Francis (both Silent), Popes during the current 4T
Bernie Sanders and Joe Biden (Silent). Influenced the Democratic Party during the current 4T.

Also, which boomers do you see as being super-elders during the 1T?

Nancy Pelosi (Silent)

[Eric the Green]

(01-09-2019, 09:39 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(01-05-2019, 07:47 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I think it's A-OK if Xers fool themselves into thinking they are young (to use a word form 1961). They have been fooled as a generation by much worse. A handsome actor GI fooled them.

I recall the older generations also being fooled by him.  He pretty much won by a landslide, and Gen X was only a very small portion of the voting population, after all.  The oldest Gen Xers were only 23 in 1984, the Gipper's re-election year.

The point being that Gen X has largely adopted his ideology in the years since, and they were fooled as they came of age. People form their political attitudes starting at age 14. But yes, people in older generations were also fooled. Originally in his time the Boomers were the least supportive of him. Younger Xers of course were less susceptible.

But if Xers want to be fooled that 60 years old is still young, that's OK by me. Boomers too. That may be a good way to be fooled again.

[Bill the Piper]

Reagan beat the Soviet Union in the arm race. This is something to be proud of. But his worship of money, lack of yearning for a utopia, were definitely negative traits.

There are definitely many Xers who still believe in Reaganism, look at markhumphrys.com (an Irish bloke!). On Personality Cafe I also saw American Xers who view the world in a similar way.

[gabrielle]

(01-10-2019, 08:25 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Reagan beat the Soviet Union in the arm race. This is something to be proud of. But his worship of money, lack of yearning for a utopia, were definitely negative traits.

Certainly.  And it's easy to see why people were fooled, he had a rather charming demeanor (contrast that with our current president).

Quote:There are definitely many Xers who still believe in Reaganism, look at markhumphrys.com (an Irish bloke!). On Personality Cafe I also saw American Xers who view the world in a similar way.

Mainly older, white male Gen Xers.  "As a generation," to use the phrase in Eric's original statement, Gen X is more divided.

[Hintergrund]

Whether Konrad Adenauer or Ludwig Erhard (who revived the market economy) were better for post-war Germany, that's the question.

Pope Francis, Bernie and Biden are overrated. They promise a lot and have no plan how to hold it.