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(05-15-2019, 02:22 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Indeed. American Boomers tend to be especially preachy, especially narcissistic, and especially one track minded. Thankfully my grandparents mostly raise me and I was also heavily influenced by my Xer cousins so while I got some of that Millie conditioning I was able to see it for the propaganda it was.
Also my mother hated my jeans while growing up. Looking back on it now they were pretty goofy but given the climate where I live tight jeans would be uncomfortable by default. Given the heat of Florida loser clothing is preferred almost always.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNCO
How come I was able to see things as propaganda despite being a Millie myself? Things just flashed into my head and it went "LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. THIS CONTRADICTS THIS. THIS RESULTS IN SOMETHING BAD. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE." What kind of upbringing causes this?
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(05-15-2019, 02:26 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:22 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Indeed. American Boomers tend to be especially preachy, especially narcissistic, and especially one track minded. Thankfully my grandparents mostly raise me and I was also heavily influenced by my Xer cousins so while I got some of that Millie conditioning I was able to see it for the propaganda it was.
Also my mother hated my jeans while growing up. Looking back on it now they were pretty goofy but given the climate where I live tight jeans would be uncomfortable by default. Given the heat of Florida loser clothing is preferred almost always.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNCO
How come I was able to see things as propaganda despite being a Millie myself? Things just flashed into my head and it went "LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. THIS CONTRADICTS THIS. THIS RESULTS IN SOMETHING BAD. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE." What kind of upbringing causes this?
The way you describe it leads me to believe it wasn't upbringing. But rather the autism that caused that.
As for an upbringing solution the key is to teach kids how to separate truth from nonsense. That isn't always easy and sometimes adults have difficulty doing it. For example my mother is absolutely convinced that the Russians somehow hacked the election even though it is physically impossible for them to do so given the decentralized nature of the American Presidential election.
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(05-15-2019, 02:29 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:26 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:22 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: Indeed. American Boomers tend to be especially preachy, especially narcissistic, and especially one track minded. Thankfully my grandparents mostly raise me and I was also heavily influenced by my Xer cousins so while I got some of that Millie conditioning I was able to see it for the propaganda it was.
Also my mother hated my jeans while growing up. Looking back on it now they were pretty goofy but given the climate where I live tight jeans would be uncomfortable by default. Given the heat of Florida loser clothing is preferred almost always.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JNCO
How come I was able to see things as propaganda despite being a Millie myself? Things just flashed into my head and it went "LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. THIS CONTRADICTS THIS. THIS RESULTS IN SOMETHING BAD. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE." What kind of upbringing causes this?
The way you describe it leads me to believe it wasn't upbringing. But rather the autism that caused that.
As for an upbringing solution the key is to teach kids how to separate truth from nonsense. That isn't always easy and sometimes adults have difficulty doing it. For example my mother is absolutely convinced that the Russians somehow hacked the election even though it is physically impossible for them to do so given the decentralized nature of the American Presidential election.
I think it was my autism and my parenting. I was raised to be practical and how to sort out BS at a young age. I was also taught a lot of practical skills, realities, and how things were early. I can't relate to having NPC parents that put kids on Ritalin or divorced because they wanted to find themselves.
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(05-15-2019, 02:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:18 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 01:13 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-15-2019, 12:58 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I think the use of the word 'hero' is misplaced. Would one call a soldier in the Wehrmacht a hero? Probably not. Civic fits them better and by and large civic generations were raised to be obedient. It is that obedience that allows them to do heroic things should they have good leadership, and horrific things if they have poor leadership.
But then again everyone knows that it is the Nomads that clean up the mess that the Idealists make. The Civics are only tools to this end.
As to NPCs...the vast majority of humans are in fact what I'd classify as NPCs. Many I don't even think have an internal monologue worth listening to.
Agree. I cant stand that lame term they have for those of us who are civics. I prefer civic. Far more accurate. Also agree I feel I was raised to be a tool modelled to an older generations ideal way of thinking and thing is, for the most part I agree with them. They did a good job no doubt. I just do not like the hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do....stuff like that.
As for what was taught to society, I don't really agree with their morals. I don't agree with the notion of maturity or anything like that. I don't believe "two wrongs don't make a right" or anything like that. I thought most of what is said by society is impractical bullshit and doesn't deal with the real bad guys the right way. I'm kind of just drifting through the 4T. I just wanna escape until the whole thing is over with. I'm autistic and a lot of this "You have to listen because I say so" just makes me roll my eyes. I don't understand my generation's obsession with maturity as if that value really means anything if you lose against a bully. To me, values have no meaning if they result in something negative. Negative results = stupid value. If being mature gets you run over IMO maturity is a stupid value.
I feel for you that you have had certain things happen in your life which caused so much anger frustration and negativity in you anyway which is saddening but I try keep that at a distance as I already have cptsd to deal with. Perception goes a long way. That said, I have no idea really what boomers over there as a whole taught their civics. I only have hearsay and that is not much really. To me the 4T is what we make of it really. My mother also said you have to listen because I say so too which makes zero sense or logic to me. I understand my generations obsession with maturity. Maybe something you could look into if interested. We agree on values have no meaning if it results in negativity. But my main thing is values also have no meaning if one does not follow through with putting words into action. Totally disagree with maturity being a stupid value. Being immature and taking problems out on others due to being an immature whiner is stupid in my books and nothing to be admired. You can at least have a conversation with a mature person who has a grip over their emotions and perhaps some mature insight.
I had parents that calmly discussed things with me and logic, reasoning, and debate were a part of my household. Whenever someone says "Listen because I say so." without giving a logical explanation, my instinct is not to listen. As for maturity, I think it results in a worse world because it makes the bullies of the world very cocky since nobody challenges them. If nobody challenges them they can do anything to people. The mature people are the ones keeping the world bad because the bad people of the world go unpunished.
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Then you are quite lucky indeed. As for divorcing to "find oneself" I've never related to that. I've only ever seen divorce used for truly irreconcilable differences though. If it is a choice between divorce or open abuse of either, divorce is preferable. Divorcing to "find oneself" merely indicates that the person attempting to find themselves doesn't know who they are (and I'd likely consider them to be an NPC).
Ritalin is a useful medication when used correctly. However, it is often over used because the problem with schooling is that it isn't geared toward the male mind. Ever notice that all the kids with ADHD (which is probably a bullshit diagnosis anyway given how it is described in the DSM) all have penises? Boys are not supposed to sit in one seat for eight hours and play quietly. Our evolution requires the male to be rambunctious so that he will be able to fight and hunt and etc. That is also probably why male achievement is lacking in the West too.
In before "Hurr, Durr Prager U" 
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(05-15-2019, 02:59 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:18 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 01:13 AM)taramarie Wrote: Agree. I cant stand that lame term they have for those of us who are civics. I prefer civic. Far more accurate. Also agree I feel I was raised to be a tool modelled to an older generations ideal way of thinking and thing is, for the most part I agree with them. They did a good job no doubt. I just do not like the hypocrisy. Do as I say, not as I do....stuff like that.
As for what was taught to society, I don't really agree with their morals. I don't agree with the notion of maturity or anything like that. I don't believe "two wrongs don't make a right" or anything like that. I thought most of what is said by society is impractical bullshit and doesn't deal with the real bad guys the right way. I'm kind of just drifting through the 4T. I just wanna escape until the whole thing is over with. I'm autistic and a lot of this "You have to listen because I say so" just makes me roll my eyes. I don't understand my generation's obsession with maturity as if that value really means anything if you lose against a bully. To me, values have no meaning if they result in something negative. Negative results = stupid value. If being mature gets you run over IMO maturity is a stupid value.
I feel for you that you have had certain things happen in your life which caused so much anger frustration and negativity in you anyway which is saddening but I try keep that at a distance as I already have cptsd to deal with. Perception goes a long way. That said, I have no idea really what boomers over there as a whole taught their civics. I only have hearsay and that is not much really. To me the 4T is what we make of it really. My mother also said you have to listen because I say so too which makes zero sense or logic to me. I understand my generations obsession with maturity. Maybe something you could look into if interested. We agree on values have no meaning if it results in negativity. But my main thing is values also have no meaning if one does not follow through with putting words into action. Totally disagree with maturity being a stupid value. Being immature and taking problems out on others due to being an immature whiner is stupid in my books and nothing to be admired. You can at least have a conversation with a mature person who has a grip over their emotions and perhaps some mature insight.
I had parents that calmly discussed things with me and logic, reasoning, and debate were a part of my household. Whenever someone says "Listen because I say so." without giving a logical explanation, my instinct is not to listen. As for maturity, I think it results in a worse world because it makes the bullies of the world very cocky since nobody challenges them. If nobody challenges them they can do anything to people. The mature people are the ones keeping the world bad because the bad people of the world go unpunished.
You are lucky. My mother and my partners mother are crazy and tend to say "listen because I say so." Its gross and im sick of lack of logic. It is controlling and I despise it. That's not maturity. That is arrogance.
Yes so I deal with people who want to force their beliefs on me by being pushier back. I will get louder and louder until they walk away and let me have my opinion. I have zero tolerance for any bullshit people telling me I can't think one way or another. I have no time to be told "You must think this because I say so."
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(05-17-2019, 07:18 PM)taramarie Wrote: (05-17-2019, 06:59 PM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:59 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: (05-15-2019, 02:28 AM)taramarie Wrote: I feel for you that you have had certain things happen in your life which caused so much anger frustration and negativity in you anyway which is saddening but I try keep that at a distance as I already have cptsd to deal with. Perception goes a long way. That said, I have no idea really what boomers over there as a whole taught their civics. I only have hearsay and that is not much really. To me the 4T is what we make of it really. My mother also said you have to listen because I say so too which makes zero sense or logic to me. I understand my generations obsession with maturity. Maybe something you could look into if interested. We agree on values have no meaning if it results in negativity. But my main thing is values also have no meaning if one does not follow through with putting words into action. Totally disagree with maturity being a stupid value. Being immature and taking problems out on others due to being an immature whiner is stupid in my books and nothing to be admired. You can at least have a conversation with a mature person who has a grip over their emotions and perhaps some mature insight.
I had parents that calmly discussed things with me and logic, reasoning, and debate were a part of my household. Whenever someone says "Listen because I say so." without giving a logical explanation, my instinct is not to listen. As for maturity, I think it results in a worse world because it makes the bullies of the world very cocky since nobody challenges them. If nobody challenges them they can do anything to people. The mature people are the ones keeping the world bad because the bad people of the world go unpunished.
You are lucky. My mother and my partners mother are crazy and tend to say "listen because I say so." Its gross and im sick of lack of logic. It is controlling and I despise it. That's not maturity. That is arrogance.
Yes so I deal with people who want to force their beliefs on me by being pushier back. I will get louder and louder until they walk away and let me have my opinion. I have zero tolerance for any bullshit people telling me I can't think one way or another. I have no time to be told "You must think this because I say so."
Yes you can tell them how you feel. But I learned being louder does not make them hear you the way you wish them to. Only makes them deafer to it actually. My partner, his mother is one such person and she is very irrational, wilfully ignorant and one hell of a temper and imagination. She loves making up conspiracy theories about people around her which I have no tolerance for. She is EXACTLY the sort of person who fits the "you must think this because I say so." Which attempts to strip people of their freedom which boils my blood. Unfortunately she never listens and I have learned that what would only stop her is taking my partner by the hand, getting up and walking out of her life till she realizes (if she is capable of learning) that if she will not stop being an asshole, she will end up pushing people out of her life and will be all alone. That it will not be tolerated. Having that power to stop, get up, and walk away from toxic people is I find the most powerful message. You still will retain all of what you believe, think and feel, your freedom intact and you took it with you while leaving others to their own issues and refuse to be a part of it.
My goal is to punish the other person for trying to do this to me. Some people are simply too stupid to learn. If the other person gives up and leaves me alone my goal has been met IMO. I think a lot of people are bad in the world just because no one stands up to them to punish them.
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(05-15-2019, 12:58 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: But then again everyone knows that it is the Nomads that clean up the mess that the Idealists make. The Civics are only tools to this end.
Everyone who read S&H and understood them, anyway.
Also, if some "Prophets" have a good image, it's because they had competent Nomads working for them to make pragmatic daily decisions. Without the Eisenhowers and Pattons, FDR would have stayed a useless talker.
(05-15-2019, 01:39 AM)taramarie Wrote: The boomers here from my experience have firm ideals they wish to push onto others and as a child they had stated over and over that we were the generation who would clean up the messes of the generations before us and we were their hope.
It seems to me that they deserve someone to tell them that they have no right to make any moral judgements unless they'll go in sackcloth for the rest of their life.
(05-15-2019, 01:39 AM)taramarie Wrote: They didn't like drugs, anything sexually suggestive, and us doing anything considered dangerous.
After they didn't leave anything out when they were younger.
(05-15-2019, 02:18 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: If being mature gets you run over IMO maturity is a stupid value.
No one should disagree with that.
(05-15-2019, 02:26 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: How come I was able to see things as propaganda despite being a Millie myself? Things just flashed into my head and it went "LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE. THIS CONTRADICTS THIS. THIS RESULTS IN SOMETHING BAD. LOGIC DOES NOT COMPUTE." What kind of upbringing causes this?
I also suspect that you Asperger might have to do sth with it. (Maybe all those Boomers out there hate autism/Asperger because ppl with it tend to say the blunt truth? I'm talking about the anti-vacc crowd.)
(05-15-2019, 02:29 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: As for an upbringing solution the key is to teach kids how to separate truth from nonsense.
Few parents do that. Maybe autism/Asperger folks intuitively understand if something isn't logical? No wonder the "NT" drive them crazy.
(05-15-2019, 02:59 AM)taramarie Wrote: You are lucky. My mother and my partners mother are crazy and tend to say "listen because I say so." Its gross and im sick of lack of logic. It is controlling and I despise it. That's not maturity. That is arrogance.
Agree 100%.
(05-15-2019, 03:16 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: In before "Hurr, Durr Prager U"
Well, they aren't all wrong.
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