I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT!

[playwrite]

(11-15-2016, 06:51 AM)Bronsin Wrote: I vote YES for a Calexit too! Go on and GTFO LOL.

That new countries economy would collapse within days once they figured out that all the money they get right now in Fed assistance would be cut off. That all the power they get from Hoover Dam would just double in cost. All the improvements to roads and welfare would be gone.  Once they had to be fully sustainable financially, and figured out that illegals don't pay taxes, they won't have any money to operate on. Commiefornia is nothing more than a big welfare state, and will stay that way as long as liberals are in charge of it.

Democrats always view their future in reference to dreams instead of reality.

You are obviously not one of our new bright lights on the forum so I'll try to help you out a tad.  If the words are too big, there is this thing called "google" you can use to help educate yourself.  Try it; it can open whole new worlds for you.

This is a chart indicating how much each state gets back in federal expenditure for each dollar a state sends to Washington.  It is on a per capita basis so as to normalize and allow accurate comparisons across states (again, use google if any of this is a little difficult for you).



As you might be able to comprehend, CA is around the bottom 1/4 of states relying much on the feds.  

Also on a per capita basis, CA is actually in the bottom 10 states in using federal money for social services. 

Most federal dollars in CA are going to defense expenditures (SD Naval Base, Camp Pendleton, numerous AF bases), massive R&D (UC system including Lawrence Livermore, Silicon Valley), port facilities and incredible shipping infrastructure (SF, LA, SD and Inland Empire hub), and massive federal land holdings.  It would be difficult if not impossible for left-behind Red states to duplicate that capacity and the lack of being able to tap into CA's dynamism would greatly add to the likelihood of you all remaining pretty backward far into the future.  My bet, however, is you probably wouldn't notice.

[Eric the Green]

Let's hope Bronson has some ability to read.

[Bronsin]

I can read just fine, and if you would like to leave the U.S., then get to steppin'. Nobody is forcing you to stay. And take all those idiot protesters with you while you're at it. They really make your cause look like a farce. The best entertainment I have had in years is watching these dumbshits implode! Mission accomplished!!!! Laffin'.................

[Eric the Green]

(11-15-2016, 05:06 PM)Bronsin Wrote: I can read just fine, and if you would like to leave the U.S., then get to steppin'. Nobody is forcing you to stay. And take all those idiot protesters with you while you're at it. They really make your cause look like a farce. The best entertainment I have had in years is watching these dumbshits implode! Mission accomplished!!!! Laffin'.................

I'm glad you're havin fun. But CA leaving isn't going to get rid of protesters, silly boy. They are all over. Can't you read?

[Ragnarök_62]

(11-15-2016, 02:31 PM)playwrite Wrote: <snip>


As you might be able to comprehend, CA is around the bottom 1/4 of states relying much on the feds.  

Also on a per capita basis, CA is actually in the bottom 10 states in using federal money for social services. 

Yeah, but blood red Oklahoma gets even less $$$$ than California, man. It's on that graphy thingie up above.

[Galen]

(11-15-2016, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 05:06 PM)Bronsin Wrote: I can read just fine, and if you would like to leave the U.S., then get to steppin'. Nobody is forcing you to stay. And take all those idiot protesters with you while you're at it. They really make your cause look like a farce. The best entertainment I have had in years is watching these dumbshits implode! Mission accomplished!!!! Laffin'.................

I'm glad you're havin fun. But CA leaving isn't going to get rid of protesters, silly boy. They are all over. Can't you read?

I am pretty sure that he can and the protesters are all in the heavily Democratic urban areas that went for Hillary.  In other words, you are annoying your own people.  From the point of view of flyover country its just a bunch of Millies having a hissy-fit.

[playwrite]

(11-16-2016, 12:30 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 02:31 PM)playwrite Wrote: <snip>


As you might be able to comprehend, CA is around the bottom 1/4 of states relying much on the feds.  

Also on a per capita basis, CA is actually in the bottom 10 states in using federal money for social services. 

Yeah, but blood red Oklahoma gets even less $$$$ than California, man. It's on that graphy thingie up above.

Yep, and you all keep that oil flowing to CA and they'll let the Chinese keep your WalMarts stocked (with a surcharge of course).  That's how it works  between countries.  

[playwrite]

(11-16-2016, 03:06 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 05:06 PM)Bronsin Wrote: I can read just fine, and if you would like to leave the U.S., then get to steppin'. Nobody is forcing you to stay. And take all those idiot protesters with you while you're at it. They really make your cause look like a farce. The best entertainment I have had in years is watching these dumbshits implode! Mission accomplished!!!! Laffin'.................

I'm glad you're havin fun. But CA leaving isn't going to get rid of protesters, silly boy. They are all over. Can't you read?

I am pretty sure that he can and the protesters are all in the heavily Democratic urban areas that went for Hillary.  In other words, you are annoying your own people.  From the point of view of flyover country its just a bunch of Millies having a hissy-fit.

And so did the t-baggers start in their Red zone backyards.

Everybody gets a turn in the barrel eventually.

[Galen]

(11-16-2016, 01:49 PM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 03:06 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 05:06 PM)Bronsin Wrote: I can read just fine, and if you would like to leave the U.S., then get to steppin'. Nobody is forcing you to stay. And take all those idiot protesters with you while you're at it. They really make your cause look like a farce. The best entertainment I have had in years is watching these dumbshits implode! Mission accomplished!!!! Laffin'.................

I'm glad you're havin fun. But CA leaving isn't going to get rid of protesters, silly boy. They are all over. Can't you read?

I am pretty sure that he can and the protesters are all in the heavily Democratic urban areas that went for Hillary.  In other words, you are annoying your own people.  From the point of view of flyover country its just a bunch of Millies having a hissy-fit.

And so did the t-baggers start in their Red zone backyards.

Everybody gets a turn in the barrel eventually.

Funny thing about the Tea Party protests, which were very large, is that they cleaned up after themselves and didn't destroy property.  The Occupy protests left quite a mess when they were done and the current set of protests have destroyed quite a bit of property and left a mess behind.  In a rural area these people would have ended up in jail but in Portland for some reason the prosecutor is not pressing charges.

[Ragnarök_62]

(11-16-2016, 01:47 PM)playwrite Wrote: <snip>

Yeah, but blood red Oklahoma gets even less $$$$ than California, man. It's on that graphy thingie up above.

Yep, and you all keep that oil flowing to CA and they'll let the Chinese keep your WalMarts stocked (with a surcharge of course).  That's how it works  between countries.  

Oil?   Naw, that's so 20th century.

The oil's about to run out, so we gots windfarms...



http://en.openei.org/wiki/Map_of_Wind_Farms   <-   a US map of windfarms.


Walmart?   Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft~~~~~~~~~   Actually, 2nd hand stores that have used Walmart junk are a far, far better deal.  That's how it goes down here in down and out Oklahoma.  We're too fucking poor to rely on Walmart as the first place to get our stuff.


And of course, house prices match the wages here.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Per...ect/12_zm/

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Alv...ect/13_zm/

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/New...rect/9_zm/

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Shi...ect/14_zm/





Wanna buy some of our little pink houses for investments?   They're cheap.  Like less than a year's rent in NYC.

[Eric the Green]

California’s Democrats Are Ready for Political War
“We’re going to do everything in our power to protect our people and our values.”
James Nash
Bloomberg Businessweek
November 18, 2016 — 5:00 AM PST

The Republicans are about to control Congress and the presidency for the first time in a decade, and they have an ambitious agenda. They’ve promised to undo Obamacare, deport undocumented immigrants, and roll back environmental regulations. The Democrats who run the state government in California aren’t happy. Immediately after the election, state Senate President Kevin de León and his Assembly counterpart, Anthony Rendon, both Latinos from Southern California, sent out a scathing statement in English and Spanish assuring all 39 million Californians that they were ready for political war. “Today, we woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California,” they wrote. “We will lead the resistance to any effort that would shred our social fabric or our Constitution.”

Democrats have dominated all branches of California’s government since 2011, when Jerry Brown succeeded Arnold Schwarzenegger as governor. With the largest economy in the U.S. and the sixth-largest in the world, the state enjoys greater independence from Washington than most. It was the first state to adopt its own vehicle emissions standards, in 2002. In 2012, California created the only state-level cap-and-trade system for limiting greenhouse gas emissions after Republicans in Congress rejected a national model. California, which has more undocumented immigrants than any other state, offers them driver’s licenses as well as financial aid for college. It has imposed some of the country’s strictest background checks on firearms purchases. It’s one of three states to provide paid family and medical leave and one of five that require employers to offer paid sick leave. “This is unlike anything we’ve seen in modern political history,” says de León. “We’re going to do everything in our power to protect our people and our values as Californians.”

Hillary Clinton won more than 61 percent of the state’s vote, a higher share than President Obama won in 2012. Voters approved ballot measures decriminalizing recreational marijuana use, restricting ammunition purchases, and increasing taxes on the rich. The national election triggered a resurgence of California secession fantasies, this time under the hashtag #Calexit—a reference to Brexit, Britain’s vote to leave the European Union.

State Democrats say there’s plenty they can do short of leaving the U.S. California has long been a net contributor to Washington’s coffers, receiving an estimated 78¢ in federal spending in return for every dollar it sends, according to a study by the Washington-based Tax Foundation, a nonprofit think tank that provides analysis of federal and state tax policies. That gives state leaders potential leverage when it comes to complying with policies it doesn’t like, starting with the deportation of undocumented immigrants.

From January 2014 to September 2015, California released immigrants considered deportable under federal law in more than 11,000 instances, rather than keeping them in custody for federal agents, according to U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement data obtained by the Texas Tribune. The next state on the list, New York, released people in fewer than 2,000 cases.

On Nov. 14, Los Angeles Police Department Chief Charlie Beck said he won’t reverse long-standing department policy blocking officers from doing immigration enforcement, despite Donald Trump’s threats to cut federal funding to so-called sanctuary cities, which offer residents protection from federal agents. “We are not going to work with Homeland Security on deportation efforts,” Beck said. “That is not our job, nor will I make it our job.” San Francisco Mayor Ed Lee has also publicly affirmed his commitment to remaining a sanctuary city, and his office has begun drawing up contingency plans for dealing with a loss of federal funding, says City Controller Ben Rosenfield.

One of the biggest points of contention between Sacramento and Trump’s Washington will be climate change. The incoming president has called global warming a hoax “created by and for the Chinese in order to make U.S. manufacturing noncompetitive.” He’s also pledged to withdraw from the 2015 Paris Agreement, the first legally binding global deal to reduce carbon emissions, and to shred Obama’s Clean Power Plan, which sought to control emissions from power plants.

Governor Brown has devoted himself to strengthening California’s carbon pollution rules, already the nation’s toughest. “We will protect the precious rights of our people and continue to confront the existential threat of our time—devastating climate change,” Brown said in a statement that also referred to finding common ground with Trump and the GOP where possible. Oakland Mayor Libby Schaaf says cities should be willing to uphold the Paris commitments at the local level. “You have 70 percent of the world’s greenhouse gas emissions coming from cities,” she says. “If all mayors agree to take action, we can actually render federal action irrelevant.”

California’s Democrats are also exploring ways to ensure continued access to health care. The Affordable Care Act guarantees federal subsidies for 90 percent of the 1.4 million residents insured by Covered California, the statewide health exchange, and about 5.5 million more Californians now have insurance via the Medicaid expansion made possible by the 2010 law. A repeal, as Trump and Republicans have pledged, would cost the state more than $15 billion in federal subsidies a year, according to the nonprofit Urban Institute. “In theory, California could implement its own universal health-care program,” says California’s insurance commissioner, Dave Jones—though doing so, he warns, would require significant state tax increases.

One area where Trump may be able to override state objections is his plan for a border wall, although much of California’s border with Mexico is already lined with high fences and motion sensors. Yet there are plenty of policies that Trump won’t be able to disrupt. Take abortion rights: If Roe v. Wade, the 1973 U.S. Supreme Court ruling that legalized abortion nationwide, were to be scrapped by a new court majority, the issue would revert to states. California leaders have taken steps to expand access to the procedure, and could make the state a haven for women seeking abortions if Roe were to fall. And some ideas that Trump has endorsed, like stop-and-frisk law enforcement policies, are determined at the local level, not by Congress. Says Mayor Schaaf: “I think it is wise to not react too much to things that have not yet occurred, but rather to be prepared and strengthened in the event that they do.”

The bottom line: More than 61 percent of Californians voted for Clinton, and state Democrats say they’ll block Trump’s policies.

[Eric the Green]

(11-16-2016, 05:50 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote: Naw, that's so 20th century.

You know, now that the rest of Amerikkka has voted to return to the values of the 18th century, or worse, the fact that the 21st century never began is more firmly etched in my mind. We failed to enter the 21st century on Dec.12, 2000 when the Supreme Court selected a dufus from Texas as our president. Since then we've had just over one year total of Democratic progressive rule in Washington, and most states have reverted to the 18th century Republicans. Now the rest of Amerikkka has actually voted to go on a backward track again full speed ahead for at least another 4 years.

New gadgets do not a new century make, if we keep going backward socially and politically.

We'll have to do the best we can with the new energy sources. The tools for entering the 21st century are available, and the minority of flyover country and the majority that includes the coasts will have to make do as best we can until, perhaps in the 2020s, the USA has another chance to enter the 21st century.

The rest of the world is ambiguous too. Europe was well on its way, until our 2008 crash sent it back on its heels. The 2011 Arab Spring Revolution inspired revolts and protests against tyranny across the world, but they have borne little lasting fruit and unleashed several brutal civil wars, which have also help pushed Europe backward and more regressive because of the migration crisis (which I predicted, I keep reminding you; I have to pinch myself to realize that I got this so right, so long ago).

Tyranny has returned to The Phillippines, and right-wing corruption controls Brazil. Still, there's a lot more freedom and justice in the world than there had been in much of the 20th century. But in the USA, we are going backwards rapidly now, and only California stems the tide.

[playwrite]

(11-16-2016, 04:38 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 01:49 PM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 03:06 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 05:06 PM)Bronsin Wrote: I can read just fine, and if you would like to leave the U.S., then get to steppin'. Nobody is forcing you to stay. And take all those idiot protesters with you while you're at it. They really make your cause look like a farce. The best entertainment I have had in years is watching these dumbshits implode! Mission accomplished!!!! Laffin'.................

I'm glad you're havin fun. But CA leaving isn't going to get rid of protesters, silly boy. They are all over. Can't you read?

I am pretty sure that he can and the protesters are all in the heavily Democratic urban areas that went for Hillary.  In other words, you are annoying your own people.  From the point of view of flyover country its just a bunch of Millies having a hissy-fit.

And so did the t-baggers start in their Red zone backyards.

Everybody gets a turn in the barrel eventually.

Funny thing about the Tea Party protests, which were very large, is that they cleaned up after themselves and didn't destroy property.  The Occupy protests left quite a mess when they were done and the current set of protests have destroyed quite a bit of property and left a mess behind.  In a rural area these people would have ended up in jail but in Portland for some reason the prosecutor is not pressing charges.

You measure the validity of a protest by its tidiness???

How bizarre and sophmoric.

I guess one of the reasons that Libertarians can't sell their junk.

[playwrite]

(11-16-2016, 05:50 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 01:47 PM)playwrite Wrote: <snip>

Yeah, but blood red Oklahoma gets even less $$$$ than California, man. It's on that graphy thingie up above.

Yep, and you all keep that oil flowing to CA and they'll let the Chinese keep your WalMarts stocked (with a surcharge of course).  That's how it works  between countries.  

Oil?   Naw, that's so 20th century.

The oil's about to run out, so we gots windfarms...



http://en.openei.org/wiki/Map_of_Wind_Farms   <-   a US map of windfarms.


Walmart?   Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffft~~~~~~~~~   Actually, 2nd hand stores that have used Walmart junk are a far, far better deal.  That's how it goes down here in down and out Oklahoma.  We're too fucking poor to rely on Walmart as the first place to get our stuff.


And of course, house prices match the wages here.
http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Per...ect/12_zm/

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Alv...ect/13_zm/

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/New...rect/9_zm/

http://www.zillow.com/homes/for_sale/Shi...ect/14_zm/





Wanna buy some of our little pink houses for investments?   They're cheap.  Like less than a year's rent in NYC.

Yea, I know.

And it looks like we're going to need another 4 years of reality before we get everyone to seriously ask why.

You know, Mellencamp wrote that song when Ray-gun was in office; it was a protest song.  Timely, once again, and, unfortunately, likely more so in the coming four years.

I saw him and Kid Rock do a very long version at the Concert for NYC - just a month after 9/11.  It made my day then, the coming together overriding the shared horror; today, I realize how naive I was.

[playwrite]

Eric, you're going to like this; others here, not so much -

California versus Trumpland

Quote:California is now the capital of liberal America. Along with its neighbors Oregon and Washington, it will be a nation within the nation starting in January when the federal government goes dark.

In sharp contrast to much of the rest of the nation, Californians preferred Hillary Clinton over Donald Trump by a 2-to-1 margin. They also voted to extend a state tax surcharge on the wealthy, and adopt local housing and transportation measures along with a slew of local tax increases and bond proposals.

In other words, California is the opposite of Trumpland.

The differences go even deeper. For years, conservatives have been saying that a healthy economy depends on low taxes, few regulations, and low wages.

Are conservatives right? At the one end of the scale are Kansas and Texas, with among the nation’s lowest taxes, least regulations, and lowest wages.

At the other end is California, with among the nation’s highest taxes, especially on the wealthy; toughest regulations, particularly when it comes to the environment; most ambitious healthcare system, that insures more than 12 million poor Californians, in partnership with Medicaid; and high wages.

So according to conservative doctrine, Kansas and Texas ought to be booming, and California ought to be in the pits.

Actually, it’s just the opposite.

For several years, Kansas’s rate of economic growth has been the worst in the nation. Last year its economy actually shrank.  

Texas hasn’t been doing all that much better. Its rate of job growth has been below the national average. Retail sales are way down. The value of Texas exports has been dropping.

But what about so-called over-taxed, over-regulated, high-wage California?

California leads the nation in the rate of economic growth — more than twice the national average. If it were a separate nation it would now be the sixth largest economy in the world. Its population has surged to 39 million (up 5 percent since 2010).

California is home to the nation’s fastest-growing and most innovative industries – entertainment and high tech. It incubates more startups than anywhere else in the world.
 

In other words, conservatives have it exactly backwards.

Why are Kansas and Texas doing so badly, and California so well?

For one thing, taxes enable states to invest their people. The University of California is the best system of public higher education in America. Add in the state’s network of community colleges, state colleges, research institutions, and you have an unparalleled source of research, and powerful engine of upward mobility.

Kansas and Texas haven’t been investing nearly to the same extent.

California also provides services to a diverse population, including a large percentage of immigrants. Donald Trump to the contrary, such diversity is a huge plus. Both Hollywood and Silicon Valley have thrived on the ideas and energies of new immigrants.

Meanwhile, California’s regulations protect the public health and the state’s natural beauty, which also draws people to the state – including talented people who could settle anywhere.

Wages are high in California because the economy is growing so fast employers have to pay more for workers. That’s not a bad thing. After all, the goal isn’t just growth. It’s a high standard of living.

In fairness, Texas’s problems are also linked to the oil bust. But that’s really no excuse because Texas has failed to diversify its economy. Here again, it hasn’t made adequate investments.

California is far from perfect. A housing shortage has driven rents and home prices into the stratosphere. Roads are clogged. Its public schools used to be the best in the nation but are now among the worst – largely because of a proposition approved by voters in 1978 that’s strangled local school financing. Much more needs to be done.

But overall, the contrast is clear. Economic success depends on tax revenues that go into public investments, and regulations that protect the environment and public health. And true economic success results in high wages.


I’m not sure how Trumpland and California will coexist in coming years. I’m already hearing murmurs of secession by Golden Staters, and of federal intrusions by the incipient Trump administration.

But so far, California gives lie to the conservative dictum that low taxes, few regulations, and low wages are the keys economic success. Trumpland should take note. 

The investment in higher education caught my eye.  I'm familiar with what was happening under the previous GOP leadership in Virginia to the historically important and academically excellent University of Virginia where even the previous Republican AG was going after climate research scientists at the school.  Fortunately, three years ago, Virginia went back to the Dems and they turned it around.

Not so in North Carolina, where both UNC and Duke have been under both fiscal and cultural attacks.  These very very fine schools are starting to drown in the cesspool of anti-intellectualism attacks.  It looks like the a-hole GOP governor is going down (he's still refusing to concede), but the state's legislation will remain a cesspoll.  It remains to be seen if the new Dem governor can turn things around; I know the famous RTP that drives a lot of the state's economy has lost a lot of luster because of this.

[playwrite]

This is also very insightful -

Donald Trump lost most of the American economy in this election

Basically, the counties that Trump won, while much more numerous, only provide about 1/3 of the Nation's economic output, while Clinton's provides 2/3's, as visualized here -

[img][/img]

Or, as noted -

Quote:With the exceptions of the Phoenix and Fort Worth areas, and a big chunk of Long Island, Clinton won every large-sized economic county in the country.

I believe if they had measured economic growth, change in GDP over 10-30 years, the Clinton counties would likley represent at least 80% if not 90% of that growth. And what is interesting about this is -

Quote:But it's not the case that the counties Clinton won have grown richer at the expense of the rest of the country -- they represent about the same share of the economy today as they did in 2000. Instead, it appears that, compared to Gore, Clinton was much more successful in winning over the most successful counties in a geographically unbalanced economy.

 - in other words, it is not that Silicon Valley and NYC have gotten relatively richer, and they always go Blue, it is that she's dropped more of the less-rich counties and to a lesser degree added more of the more-rich counties.

This is obviously derived from the White Working Class (WWC) revolt of former Obama voters turning to Trump, the Trumpocrats, from their frustration from falling behind.   This is the meme that has grown out of the election and with Trump's COMBINED margin of just 107,000 votes (or just 0.09% of the national votes) in PA, MI, and WI giving him the Electoral College win, it is the correct walkaway from the election (imagine if just 54K of those 107K had voted the other way, just 0.045% of the national total votes - we'd be talking about how Bubba was measuring the drapes at the WH).  

Here's the rub, however, for those WWC - 

Quote:There's a downside, though, for a candidate such as Trump, whose economic appeal was rooted in a promise to restore coal, manufacturing and other jobs lost in the shifts of the past several decades.
That task will be difficult, Muro has written, in part because manufacturers have grown substantially more productive in recent years, meaning they probably won't be adding millions more workers even if Trump pursues major changes in trade policy that result in more goods being made in the United States.
"The prescription isn't that helpful," Mark said. "We're going to have a lot of questions about how to translate the political geography into actually helpful policy."

What most people don't get is that the trade deficit is about 3% of US GDP.  Whatever Trump can elicit out of his coming trade wars has to be measured by how much he negates or even reverses that deficit.  But the amount of upside to it is pretty tiny compared to total US GDP. 

And the manufacturing jobs coming back?  Is the actual work going to be done by a couple thousand newly-hired assembly workers on the floor or by robots run by a few technicans?  This past September, the US produced more goods than any month in its history - where's all the jobs that use to manufacture less, a lot less?

As to boosting GDP and jobs in the energy sector, does anyone believe coal is still economically viable?  Is there demand for even more surplus oil or gas reserves on the markets now or far into the future?  Really???  Maybe we can blow a big energy bubble bigger than the housing bubble, but in the end... Pop!

That brings us to infrastructure. Lord knows we need it.  But, some folks have already caught onto the Big Con that's coming -

Bernie Sanders Calls Out Donald Trump Over Infrastructure Plan

Basically, Trump's plan is a scam - huge tax credits to other 0.1%ers to take over public assets and rent them back out (e.g., road tolls) to the public.  It's not going to be Flint Michigan like public works projects but probable some sport stadiums and maybe some casinos.

Details here -

Build He Won’t

You know, it's true that there's a lot of angry by WWC from feeling left behind, and much of it is justifiable.

It is also true that people often do really very stupid things when they are angry.

Its going to be fun watching a lot of WWC rationalize and get manipulated by Bannon and the neo-Confederates.  It took 9/11, the Iraqi invasion based on lies, and the Great Recession to shake some sense in them.  What will it take this time, and how long will their memory last?  Eight years seems to be about the limit.

[Eric the Green]

Boy, toll roads, with Trump's name on them. And stadiums. Certainly another incentive for me to stay home in CA and the West Coast, or maybe flyover to the East (with possible stops in Denver and Chicago), and not venture into forbidding, gun-totin,' hillbilly, red-neck, anti-hippie, anti-intellectual, reactionary, feudal/tribal/medieval-style toll and tariff-collecting Trumpland, with his name posted everywhere-- the absentee landlord of the place. I won't even be able to drive there without paying through the nose; not to mention maybe getting shot in some open-carry state, or run off the interstate by a big rig. Here, we just have a few tolls to go over a few bridges. And the money doesn't go to Trump and his cronies. I have more in common with most other nations than I do with Trumpland; only places like the Congo or Saudi Arabia would be more alien to me. It's too bad; I like to travel and see how the other half lives. But now I have to PAY for that dubious pleasure? Not to mention put my life and limb in danger?

Yes, I know there are dangerous places in Chicago I wouldn't want to go to either. But you can have Trump's Detroit and Milwaukee.... enough black folks there didn't even bother to get out and vote to keep from being absorbed into orange menace land......

OK Odin, care to take the bait?

[Bob Butler 54]

(11-22-2016, 02:37 PM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. CA sounds similar to NZ "California is far from perfect. A housing shortage has driven rents and home prices into the stratosphere.""But overall, the contrast is clear. Economic success depends on tax revenues that go into public investments, and regulations that protect the environment and public health. And true economic success results in high wages."

Do you have industries that clutter around different zones?  We have a lot of Big Oil near Texas, cause that's where the bulk of the oil is.  Coal and Iron built a bunch of industries, in the midwest area now known as the Rust Belt.  An awful lot of high tech companies built up around MIT and Stanford.  As various industries grow and fade, so do vast parts of the United States.

[Galen]

(11-22-2016, 10:58 AM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 04:38 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 01:49 PM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-16-2016, 03:06 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-15-2016, 11:58 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I'm glad you're havin fun. But CA leaving isn't going to get rid of protesters, silly boy. They are all over. Can't you read?

I am pretty sure that he can and the protesters are all in the heavily Democratic urban areas that went for Hillary.  In other words, you are annoying your own people.  From the point of view of flyover country its just a bunch of Millies having a hissy-fit.

And so did the t-baggers start in their Red zone backyards.

Everybody gets a turn in the barrel eventually.

Funny thing about the Tea Party protests, which were very large, is that they cleaned up after themselves and didn't destroy property.  The Occupy protests left quite a mess when they were done and the current set of protests have destroyed quite a bit of property and left a mess behind.  In a rural area these people would have ended up in jail but in Portland for some reason the prosecutor is not pressing charges.

You measure the validity of a protest by its tidiness???

How bizarre and sophmoric.

I guess one of the reasons that Libertarians can't sell their junk.

Not necessarily but it tells me that I am not dealing with a bunch of spoiled snowflakes throwing a fit so I might be more inclined to listen.  The Tea Party protesters were tired of having all of their money stolen by the government and wasted.  Not wanting to be looted seems like a good reason to protest.

[playwrite]

(11-22-2016, 03:14 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 02:37 PM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm interesting. CA sounds similar to NZ "California is far from perfect. A housing shortage has driven rents and home prices into the stratosphere.""But overall, the contrast is clear. Economic success depends on tax revenues that go into public investments, and regulations that protect the environment and public health. And true economic success results in high wages."

Do you have industries that clutter around different zones?  We have a lot of Big Oil near Texas, cause that's where the bulk of the oil is.  Coal and Iron built a bunch of industries, in the midwest area now known as the Rust Belt.  An awful lot of high tech companies built up around MIT and Stanford.  As various industries grow and fade, so do vast parts of the United States.

That makes it sound simply like the luck-of-the-draw, primarily a result of natural resources.  They may have been true at one time; and it may also be true that being natural resouce rich, pulls a Russia or Saudia Arabia or a Texas or Wyoming towards a dictatorship or oligarchy.

That's old school (pun intended).

Today, it is much more about allowing/investing in creativity and intellectual reality as well as freedom - all very dependent on having if not promoting diversity.  If there is the political and cultural (or, as you would say, the values) that can happen just about anywhere.  Gov. Tomblin is trying to make that happen in West Virginia; we should all wish him luck and promote his success as an alternative to what the Orange Anus has in store.