Democrats organize to fight back

[playwrite]

(11-22-2016, 02:49 PM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 07:56 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 01:15 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: That's what happens when the government runs something.

I don't hear Canadians and Brits complain about spiraling healthcare costs.

I roll my eyes at all the BS excuses why single payer can't work in the US when it works just fine elsewhere.

People have to get over their fear of "government rationing" of healthcare. The market is itself a form of rationing, one based on the ability to pay, and which by it's very nature fucks over the poor.

That's odd because Canadians are in fact complaining about spiraling health care costs. It's really been quite a shit show for them over the past few years.

A problem with reading comprehension ey?

It's not about spiraling costs; its about the number of hospital beds that should be maintain with a large part of the medical sector (but not the hospitals themselves, of course) arguing that there are both more efficient AND EFFECTIVE ways of dealing with much of the population's illnesses.

It's a little more complicated than it being just a money problem; best that most Libertarians stay clear to avoid any embarrasesment.

[Odin]

(11-22-2016, 04:31 PM)taramarie Wrote: hmm different to NZ

The mindset of people like Galen and Waren is that no system is perfect and without fault (except their Lord God Free Market) and so it is best to do nothing.

[playwrite]

(11-22-2016, 04:04 PM)Galen Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 02:49 PM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 07:56 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 01:15 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: That's what happens when the government runs something.

I don't hear Canadians and Brits complain about spiraling healthcare costs.

I roll my eyes at all the BS excuses why single payer can't work in the US when it works just fine elsewhere.

People have to get over their fear of "government rationing" of healthcare. The market is itself a form of rationing, one based on the ability to pay, and which by it's very nature fucks over the poor.

That's odd because Canadians are in fact complaining about spiraling health care costs. It's really been quite a shit show for them over the past few years.

Then there are the waiting lists.  Eric the Obtuse hasn't actually talked with anyone from Canada about the actual state of their health care system.  Here is how it actually works:



Nothing like living in a socialist paradise.

The wait list meme is sophmoric horseshit.

Here's that and some other of your favorites -

5 Myths About Canadian Health Care

Wait times are a means to control costs.  If you want shorter wait times, then you either have to accept higher costs or other cost-control measures.   This is true in any nation, including the USA, using any health delivery system to the masses.  This is way it is hilarious that Trump and the GOP are promising only the goodies (no precondition, coverage for kids up to 26 on their parents' plan, etc) of Obamacare without any of costs (mandate, taxes on tanning booths, etc).

Maybe, just maybe, if we all grow up and get real, we might be able to actually solve some of our problems.

[Galen]

(11-22-2016, 04:47 PM)playwrite Wrote: The wait list meme is sophmoric horseshit.

Here's that and some other of your favorites -

5 Myths About Canadian Health Care

Wait times are a means to control costs.  If you want shorter wait times, then you either have to accept higher costs or other cost-control measures.   This is true in any nation, including the USA, using any health delivery system to the masses.  This is way it is hilarious that Trump and the GOP are promising only the goodies (no precondition, coverage for kids up to 26 on their parents' plan, etc) of Obamacare without any of costs (mandate, taxes on tanning booths, etc).

Maybe, just maybe, if we all grow up and get real, we might be able to actually solve some of our problems.

Lets see, that is from AARP which has been trying to loot the young for years.  I doubt any of them have actually been to Canada where Crowder actually went there and filmed what went on.

[Eric the Green]

(11-22-2016, 04:47 PM)playwrite Wrote: Maybe, just maybe, if we all grow up and get real, we might be able to actually solve some of our problems.

Yes. From what I've seen, not only have we not been growing up in the last 36 years, we've been regressing. We're hooked on something; I don't know if it's kool-aid, or what may be in it; but who knows. TV, deceptive memes, religion, fattening food, spectator sports, financial gambling, right wing talk radio, internet social media....... but at any rate, people who are hooked, don't generally get real or more mature......

[Copperfield]

(11-22-2016, 04:41 PM)playwrite Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 02:49 PM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 07:56 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-22-2016, 01:15 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: That's what happens when the government runs something.

I don't hear Canadians and Brits complain about spiraling healthcare costs.

I roll my eyes at all the BS excuses why single payer can't work in the US when it works just fine elsewhere.

People have to get over their fear of "government rationing" of healthcare. The market is itself a form of rationing, one based on the ability to pay, and which by it's very nature fucks over the poor.

That's odd because Canadians are in fact complaining about spiraling health care costs. It's really been quite a shit show for them over the past few years.

A problem with reading comprehension ey?

It's not about spiraling costs; its about the number of hospital beds that should be maintain with a large part of the medical sector (but not the hospitals themselves, of course) arguing that there are both more efficient AND EFFECTIVE ways of dealing with much of the population's illnesses.

It's a little more complicated than it being just a money problem; best that most Libertarians stay clear to avoid any embarrasesment.

You clearly didn't read Odin's post or the article for that matter since the vast majority of it was about, you know.... The rising costs of the Canadian national healthcare system and government rationing. It's an article chock full of terms like budget deficits, limited resources, cutting services, underfunding, etc.

Again though, we already get it. We already know you are a parasite and shill. You've got some special interests buried up to the hilt in your mouth. It's nice that you've started to admit it publically at least but there really isn't any need to continue with your usual chickenhead dance at the same time.

[Eric the Green]

BREAKING: Nationwide voting restrictions prevented MILLIONS from voting

Sign our petition urging Congress to take immediate action to restore the Voting Rights Act:
ADD YOUR NAME →

The 2016 election was the first Presidential Election in 50 years without the Voting Rights Act.

After the Supreme Court gutted basic protections to our innate right to vote, Republicans set to work guaranteeing that Democratic-leaning voters wouldn’t be able to cast their ballots.

And it worked.

A shocking new report analyzing this year’s election revealed widespread and significant voting problems across the country.[1]
WISCONSIN: 300,000 registered voters lacked the photo ID necessary to cast their ballots.

Trump won Wisconsin by only 27,000 votes.

NORTH CAROLINA: 158 fewer polling locations in 40 predominantly African American districts.

African American turnout decreased by 16% in North Carolina.

These voting problems are the DIRECT result of the Supreme Court gutting the Voting Rights Act in 2013. Since then, the Court has allowed states to pass their own election rules without federal approval.

And predictably, budgets were slashed and urban neighborhoods that consistently vote Democratic were hit significantly harder than rural, Republican-leaning areas.

That’s why we’re calling on Congress to restore the Voting Rights Act, so everyone has the opportunity to participate in our Democracy:
Click here to sign the petition →

This November was one of the most consequential elections in modern history.

And Republican elected officials managed to steal it -- and elect one of the most unqualified Presidents in U.S. history -- by suppressing the Democratic vote.

We cannot afford to let this happen again.

Voting is one of the most fundamental components of a healthy democracy. And unless Congress restores the Voting Rights Act, millions of Americans will continue to be robbed of this basic right.

We’re collecting 25,000 signatures to DEMAND Congress restore the Voting Rights Act immediately. Will you sign on?
ADD YOUR NAME →

http://go.turnoutpac.org/Protect-The-Right-To-Vote

Thanks for standing up for democracy,

- The Progressive Turnout Project

[Eric the Green]

(11-23-2016, 04:14 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-23-2016, 03:39 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: BREAKING: Nationwide voting restrictions prevented MILLIONS from voting

Sign our petition urging Congress to take immediate action to restore the Voting Rights Act:
ADD YOUR NAME →

The 2016 election was the first Presidential Election in 50 years without the Voting Rights Act.

After the Supreme Court gutted basic protections to our innate right to vote, Republicans set to work guaranteeing that Democratic-leaning voters wouldn’t be able to cast their ballots.

And it worked.

A shocking new report analyzing this year’s election revealed widespread and significant voting problems across the country.[1]
WISCONSIN: 300,000 registered voters lacked the photo ID necessary to cast their ballots.

Trump won Wisconsin by only 27,000 votes.

NORTH CAROLINA: 158 fewer polling locations in 40 predominantly African American districts.

African American turnout decreased by 16% in North Carolina.

These voting problems are the DIRECT result of the Supreme Court gutting the Voting Rights Act in 2013. Since then, the Court has allowed states to pass their own election rules without federal approval.

And predictably, budgets were slashed and urban neighborhoods that consistently vote Democratic were hit significantly harder than rural, Republican-leaning areas.

That’s why we’re calling on Congress to restore the Voting Rights Act, so everyone has the opportunity to participate in our Democracy:
Click here to sign the petition →

This November was one of the most consequential elections in modern history.

And Republican elected officials managed to steal it -- and elect one of the most unqualified Presidents in U.S. history -- by suppressing the Democratic vote.

We cannot afford to let this happen again.

Voting is one of the most fundamental components of a healthy democracy. And unless Congress restores the Voting Rights Act, millions of Americans will continue to be robbed of this basic right.

We’re collecting 25,000 signatures to DEMAND Congress restore the Voting Rights Act immediately. Will you sign on?
ADD YOUR NAME →

http://go.turnoutpac.org/Protect-The-Right-To-Vote

Thanks for standing up for democracy,

- The Progressive Turnout Project

Wouldn't the SCotUS simply invalidate any new act of this type?

It looks like a shot in the dark. Probably, and congress now wouldn't pass it anyway.

[Odin]

[Warren Dew]

Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

[pbrower2a]

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

Giving fascism another chance is as much a blunder as giving convicted serial killer Gary (Green River Killer) Ridgway another chance.

Would you have any problem if the fist were smashing the symbol of the Khmer Rouge of Iraqi Ba'athism?

[tg63]

(11-22-2016, 04:53 PM)taramarie Wrote: ...
Well, they're partly right. No system is perfect. But I know how it works here and some places universal healthcare does work. Just comparing how it works in Canada is a poor argument. It is different in different places. I was confused about how someone was saying he could not get a family doctor. Here in NZ just go see someone. Just walk in and get the doctor to draw out blood and send it off to the clinic. I did not understand that tbh. That is what I have always done and I have had it done at hosp and just by walking in to different clinics. Here in NZ we also have pharmacies which are open all days of the week as well as clinics so you can see doctors at all hours as well as of course the hospital. Different system evidently. It is not all the same and population size helps.

that's how it is for me too.  I've been in situations where I didn't yet have a family doctor after a recent move, so I just went to the clinic.  easy peasy.

btw, I live in Canada.

[Eric the Green]

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

I notice you do like to turn things upside down. Are you a gymnast?

[Copperfield]

(11-25-2016, 04:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

Giving fascism another chance is as much a blunder as  giving convicted serial killer Gary (Green River Killer) Ridgway another chance.

Would you have any problem if the fist were smashing the symbol of the Khmer Rouge of Iraqi Ba'athism?

Nah, I suspect he's simply suggesting that once you declare violence against any ism as acceptable, then all you have to do is declare any folks you don't like as being believers in that ism. Instant license to beat, rape, pillage and kill.

Kind of like when we first started declaring wogs we didn't like as being terrorists, then that definition slowly started to creep toward other undesirables. That is exactly the attitude of brownshirts.

[Warren Dew]

(11-25-2016, 04:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

Giving fascism another chance is as much a blunder as  giving convicted serial killer Gary (Green River Killer) Ridgway another chance.

Would you have any problem if the fist were smashing the symbol of the Khmer Rouge of Iraqi Ba'athism?

Of course I'd have a problem.

Why is it so foreign to some people these days that for free speech to exist, people have to be free to express points of view one disagrees with?

[pbrower2a]

(11-26-2016, 12:28 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

Giving fascism another chance is as much a blunder as  giving convicted serial killer Gary (Green River Killer) Ridgway another chance.

Would you have any problem if the fist were smashing the symbol of the Khmer Rouge or of Iraqi Ba'athism?

Of course I'd have a problem.

Why is it so foreign to some people these days that for free speech to exist, people have to be free to express points of view one disagrees with?

I think that the Germans are little less free because they can no longer say Sieg heil! or Heil Hitler!, put up a Nazi flag, use Nazi symbolism, make the Nazi salute, or deny the Holocaust. Even KKK activities in Germany are on the borderline of tolerance because of the similarities between Nazism and Ku Kluxism.

A hard fist smashing a hammer-and-sickle (you know what I associate that symbol with) would trouble me little. A hard fist smashing a Magen David  would be much more problematic.

...I did have to deal with someone accusing me of being a homosexual child molester on the old site. My mother had just died of Parkinsonism, and I had much care-giving responsibility for her. I had to quit a job that I liked (substitute teaching) to take on those responsibilities that simply ground me down. That creep accused me of molesting boys. At the worst possible time in my life, I was accused of odious deeds that would keep me from holding a job that I did well and liked. There's hardly a stronger rush than influencing a child's life for the better. Child sexual abuse, something utterly unthinkable and inexcusable, would make that impossible.

I had no problem with the accusation of homosexuality. Even if it wasn't quite legal where I lived it was tolerated. Homosexuals were busted only if they did something that would be illegal if straight people did it -- especially molesting children. Now that I have a diagnosis of Asperger's, I can now say that I would rather be a homosexual than have Asperger's.

I became sympathetic about gay rights once I was gay-bashed. I saw the problem not that people might think me homosexual (I'm well described as a male lesbian -- men, yuck!) but instead that they think it acceptable to beat and humiliate gays. That did it! I was going to do everything possible to support the entry of gays and lesbians, people who have no more choice of being such than they have of their genetic material, into the mainstream so long as they act honorably. The creep figured that because I thought same-sex marriage and adoption by same-sex couples were OK, I was for child molestation. No, I am on the same side on child molestation with mainstream gays and lesbians -- contemptuous abhorrence to the extent of wanting those perverts sent to prison for very long times.

Eventually he got taken down for such stuff. There are clear limitations to freedom of expression. Criminal speech, libel, slander, false advertising, disclosure of official secrets, child pornography, and in some places hate speech are not protected.

[pbrower2a]

(11-26-2016, 02:50 AM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

Giving fascism another chance is as much a blunder as  giving convicted serial killer Gary (Green River Killer) Ridgway another chance.

Would you have any problem if the fist were smashing the symbol of the Khmer Rouge of Iraqi Ba'athism?

Nah, I suspect he's simply suggesting that once you declare violence against any ism as acceptable, then all you have to do is declare any folks you don't like as being believers in that ism. Instant license to beat, rape, pillage and kill.

Kind of like when we first started declaring wogs we didn't like as being terrorists, then that definition slowly started to creep toward other undesirables. That is exactly the attitude of brownshirts.

The Nazis had their chance and they showed what they are. Does anyone want to be shoved into a room into which pellets of Zyklon-B are introduced? 

I'd rather shout Nazis down and humiliate them. Nazism is demonstrably wrong, and anyone attracted to it is now an evil character at worst and at best a fool who has soiled  himself by association. People who adopt the core beliefs of fascism without calling themselves fascists are fascists nonetheless. After all, if one sets illegal fires one is still an arsonist no matter what verbal legerdemain one uses to redefine oneself as someone not an arsonist.

What's so great about fascism, anyway? Oh, the body count?

[Copperfield]

(11-26-2016, 06:54 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-26-2016, 02:50 AM)Copperfield Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(11-25-2016, 04:32 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: Sounds like the same attitude the brownshirts had.

Giving fascism another chance is as much a blunder as  giving convicted serial killer Gary (Green River Killer) Ridgway another chance.

Would you have any problem if the fist were smashing the symbol of the Khmer Rouge of Iraqi Ba'athism?

Nah, I suspect he's simply suggesting that once you declare violence against any ism as acceptable, then all you have to do is declare any folks you don't like as being believers in that ism. Instant license to beat, rape, pillage and kill.

Kind of like when we first started declaring wogs we didn't like as being terrorists, then that definition slowly started to creep toward other undesirables. That is exactly the attitude of brownshirts.

The Nazis had their chance and they showed what they are. Does anyone want to be shoved into a room into which pellets of Zyklon-B are introduced?   

So did we, or is there a particular reason you conveniently overlook the fact that you currently live on land taken during a genocide that dwarfs anything the Nazis could come up with?

I get that you have a WWII fetish but your own country has done far worse and still does far worse each and every day. Your double standards are remarkable.

[Eric the Green]

It's still your country too, unless you want to pack your things and take a little hike up north.....

[Eric the Green]

Three Wisconsin precincts revise vote totals after caught padding Donald Trump’s numbers
By Bill Palmer | November 25, 2016

Even as Wisconsin officials say they’re preparing for a statewide recount of the 2016 vote totals after third party candidate Jill Stein raised enough funds to cover the cost of it, the nation is left to wonder whether it might result in Hillary Clinton being named the winner of the state. But before the recount has even begun, evidence of either gross negligence or foul play has been exposed in three Wisconsin precincts – which had resulted in quite a number of phantom votes given to Donald Trump – and the vote totals have been revised accordingly.

The story goes like this: after Wisconsin posted its voting totals, various internet users who looked at the numbers noticed the same discrepancy. Three precincts in Outagamie County were each claiming that more people had voted in the presidential race than had voted at all. That’s not possible, of course. So after it became a minor online controversy, those precincts each revised their totals. The result: more than a thousand imaginary votes for Donald Trump came off the board from those three precincts alone, as first noted by Dan Solomon of Fast Company.

Here’s the explanation which local officials offered to an ABC News affiliate to explain the discrepancy: “In order to give election returns to the Outagamie County Clerk’s office as quickly as possible the Chief Inspector added together the votes from the election machine tapes. An error was made while keying the numbers on the calculator during this process resulting in an incorrect number of votes reported on Election night.”

But for this to be believed, one would have to accept that the same honest error was made in three precincts – and that in all of them, Donald Trump was a huge beneficiary of that math error. Moreover, Hillary Clinton’s vote totals didn’t change at all in these three precincts. It was simply a matter of three precincts padding Donald Trump’s totals with imaginary votes that they now acknowledge never really existed. How many more Wisconsin precincts may have used the same method to boost Trump, with tallies that weren’t so immediately recognizable as being phony? The upcoming statewide recount should provide answers.

http://www.palmerreport.com/news/three-w...mbers/228/