The stench of moral decay, especially in politics, is creeping across America

[msel]

The stench of moral decay, especially in politics, is creeping across America

https://www.courier-journal.com/story/op...962399001/

[Hintergrund]

No shit, Sherlock.

[David Horn]

When lying and cheating are successful strategies, moral decay is almost a given. New leadership that sets a higher moral tone can reverse that, but it takes a long time to get there. That only means that it should have begun long ago, but now is better than never.

[pbrower2a]

(09-06-2019, 08:41 AM)David Horn Wrote: When lying and cheating are successful strategies, moral decay is almost a given.  New leadership that sets a higher moral tone can reverse that, but it takes a long time to get there.  That only means that it should have begun long ago, but now is better than never.

We need only go back to the integrity of Obama for President -- but it takes more than the President. It will also take a public that rejects demagogues who make contradictory but nebulous promises, business administrators who care about customers and subordinates, politicians who head constituents more than they heed lobbyists. journalists who put objective truth above a rigid agenda, and perhaps even creative people who inculcate the idea that destructive behavior ruins the destructive person. Education? Very simply, we need to teach that there is more to life than quick thrills, chemical highs, sex, material indulgence, bureaucratic power, and mind-numbing entertainment.

I think of the honor codes of the Service Academies, worded differently but meaning much the same: "Do not lie, do not cheat, and do not steal; do not tolerate lying, cheating, and stealing by others". It seems obvious for any professional (except perhaps in marketing/sales): accountants, engineers, teachers, physicians, pharmacists, research scientists... It can be difficult to obey at times, but it can save lots of problems.

[Hintergrund]

(09-06-2019, 08:41 AM)David Horn Wrote: New leadership that sets a higher moral tone can reverse that, but it takes a long time to get there.

Politicians don't have to be perfect people, just a bit better than the rest. Or at least be perceived that way by their voters. You see how this drags down standards.

(09-06-2019, 05:16 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: It will also take a public that rejects demagogues who make contradictory but nebulous promises, business administrators who care about customers and subordinates, politicians who head constituents more than they heed lobbyists. journalists who put objective truth above a rigid agenda, and perhaps even creative people who inculcate the idea that destructive behavior ruins the destructive person. Education? Very simply, we need to teach that there is more to life than quick thrills, chemical highs, sex, material indulgence, bureaucratic power, and mind-numbing entertainment.

Sounds like life in a High.

[pbrower2a]

(09-09-2019, 04:58 AM)Hintergrund Wrote:

(09-06-2019, 08:41 AM)David Horn Wrote: New leadership that sets a higher moral tone can reverse that, but it takes a long time to get there.

Politicians don't have to be perfect people, just a bit better than the rest. Or at least be perceived that way by their voters. You see how this drags down standards.

(09-06-2019, 05:16 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: It will also take a public that rejects demagogues who make contradictory but nebulous promises, business administrators who care about customers and subordinates, politicians who head constituents more than they heed lobbyists. journalists who put objective truth above a rigid agenda, and perhaps even creative people who inculcate the idea that destructive behavior ruins the destructive person. Education? Very simply, we need to teach that there is more to life than quick thrills, chemical highs, sex, material indulgence, bureaucratic power, and mind-numbing entertainment.

Sounds like life in a High.

Maybe this time we will go to a High due alone to cultural change and not because our cities look like Hamburg, Dresden, Warsaw, Hiroshima, or Nagasaki at the end of the last Crisis Era. We have been slow to congeal as a people in this Crisis, perhaps because our elites still wallow in ways of the 3T even if they force Crisis-style sacrifices upon the rest of us. 

Hypocrisy has a proclivity for implosion. If Donald Trump does something incredibly stupid, then we might end this Crisis with a scenario in some ways parallel to Seven Days in May , if not for the pretexts in the book and the movie. The President having the Air Force refuel at his resort for above-market rates and commit airmen to stay at overpriced Trump hotels? I doubt that that is going down well in the Air Force.

[Anthony '58]

The problem in America is that everyone is conditioned to think about "morals" only in terms of sex, sex, sex - which is what is causing Millennials to fill the ranks of the "nones."

[Ragnarök_62]

(11-09-2019, 05:44 PM)Anthony Wrote: The problem in America is that everyone is conditioned to think about "morals" only in terms of sex, sex, sex - which is what is causing Millennials to fill the ranks of the "nones."

It goes further than that.  The US has tons of hangups and moral panics about all sorts of stuff. There's sex, drugs, SJW horseshit,and social conservative horseshit. I rather doubt Millies have a monopoly on any of the above crap.

[pbrower2a]

(11-09-2019, 05:44 PM)Anthony Wrote: The problem in America is that everyone is conditioned to think about "morals" only in terms of sex, sex, sex - which is what is causing Millennials to fill the ranks of the "nones."

Morals include:

•  not victimizing vulnerable people -- the elderly, children, the handicapped, and the poor
  
•  integrity in business dealings 
  
•  not becoming a public charge (Work, dammit!)
  
•  staying sober enough to function, and not giving in to addictive drugs
  
•  insisting upon rational discourse in politics, academia, and news reporting
  
•  honesty in public dealings
  
•  avoiding reckless sex
  
•  thrift (it is far easier to avoid ethical compromises if one has assets)
  
•  recognizing quality education (even if only as trade school) as desirable in its own right
  
•  limiting exposure to mind-rotting entertainment
  
•  personal charity
  
•  refraining from racism and religious bigotry... and sexism
  

There might be more, but I question whether any of these is unduly controversial.  It falls short of the egocentric motto "Do what thou wilt" of Aleister Crowley, and, regrettably , many figures of politics and entertainment 

I'd like to see more social equity, but our whole economic system and the command-and-control techniques of our moneyed elite seems to have the fear of destitution as its equivalent of the slave-master's lash.

[David Horn]

(11-09-2019, 06:23 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(11-09-2019, 05:44 PM)Anthony Wrote: The problem in America is that everyone is conditioned to think about "morals" only in terms of sex, sex, sex - which is what is causing Millennials to fill the ranks of the "nones."

It goes further than that.  The US has tons of hangups and moral panics about all sorts of stuff. There's sex, drugs, SJW horseshit,and social conservative horseshit. I rather doubt Millies have a monopoly on any of the above crap.

Excellent point. Millies have an innate sense of right and wrong that's either a bit too perfect (see wokeness as the prime example) or distorted by their less than ideal life experience.  In a way, these can be melded together and reworked into a new moral code that actually values decency and punishes misbehavior in accordance with the damage it inflicts on society in general and individuals in particular.  Of course, can is not the same as will.  

This 4T may play out on that battlefield.  If so, it beats the hell out of fighting on a real one.  I would like to be around to see it.

[newvoter]

You know that you live in the Twilight Zone when the US is a
bankrupt warmongering police state and Americans look you in the eye and say that the USA is a peaceful and free country with a balanced budget.

[pbrower2a]

(02-28-2021, 05:28 AM)newvoter Wrote: You know that you live in the Twilight Zone when the US is a bankrupt warmongering police state and Americans look you in the eye and say that the USA is a peaceful and free country with a balanced budget.

We have replaced a wannabe despot with a far-more conventional President. America has a huge comparative advantage in military adventures, and all that stops America from seeking Lebensraum is the ethical values of about half the population. Donald Trump may have wanted a war for profit and for his glorification, but a large enough part of the public -- and quite possibly the Joint Chiefs of Staff -- could stop such.  

We have had dangerous trends toward a police state with Dubya and more recently Trump. OK, it is easy for me to pooh-pooh the whining of outright criminals with the crude "Don't do the crime if you don't want to do the time". If drug traffickers and other criminals feel the heat -- then such is good. It is best that people with the proclivity to do insidious plots to murder family members in insurance and inheritance fraud either find other ways to achieve their ends or question the desirability of what they dream.

[newvoter]

Wow.

Americans think that Biden will restore the Bill of Rights, end the wars, and pay off the US debt.

[Eric the Green]

"Moral decay" was built into the USA's founding documents and procedures and there's never been a time without it. And so, "decay" from what? The age of kings and emperors?

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-28-2021, 03:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: "Moral decay" was built into the USA's founding documents and procedures and there's never been a time without it. And so, "decay" from what? The age of kings and emperors?

The age of kings and emperors was the Agricultural Age. Under Marx's scheme, that would have ended with bourgeoisie revolutions that created the Industrial Age. That had already happened in most of Europe and America as Marx wrote in the mid 1800s. After that, the proletariat would revolt to institute a new age where the revolutionaries become saints and brought about Marx's worker's paradise, the equivalent of the Information Age.

Unfortunately the Marxist movement was badly tainted by the culture. If a culture was still badly autocratic, the leaders of the Marxist revolution remained autocratic too. You got a Stalin or Mao.

Of course, I think democratic culture can transform through nonviolence in the Information Age. That makes Marx obsolete.

[newvoter]

Wow.

Americans are so retarded today that they say the US government only spends money on welfare.

Americans scream Stalin invaded France in 1940 before Germany did.

Americans say Nazis don't exist.

Americans say that the US never had black people before today.

Americans insist that the USPS is wonderful because stamps are cheap, but Americans are simply unable to understand that the USPS receives subsidies from American taxpayers.

Americans swear that the US doesn't have any churches.

Americans insist that the US always had food stamps.

Americans swear a country will die without debt.

Americans say that the USA always had TSA groping.

Americans scream that the government should force companies to give food to the homeless.

Americans swear that the US does not have a Ponzi economy because you can buy products online with a smartphone.

Americans insist the US is not at war with any country now.

Americans swear that the US debt doesn't need to be paid back.

https://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/p...do-p7.html

Americans scream tyranny that happened 2 weeks ago is no longer relevant.

http://f2bbs.com/thread/154776/1#bottom

Americans say certain tyranny today under Socialism is better than Capitalism that leads to possible tyranny tomorrow.

Americans scream that the elites want to crash the economy so the USA will be a free country again.

Americans have become so batshit insane now that they would rather insult the messenger who warns of the dangers of tyranny instead of criticizing the government that is enslaving them.

Americans swear tyranny is wonderful if you live in a society.

Americans say anyone who loves freedom is a Commie.

Americans swear anyone who hates tyranny is a reactionary.

Americans insist that living in North Korea would be better then living in South Korea.

[Bob Butler 54]

Hmmm...  I already used Acirema for Classic's fantasies.  Do I have to spell it sideways somehow to have a word for your impression?  I'll give you a clue.  America is quite diverse.  Saying all Americans believe one thing will generally be simplistic.

[newvoter]

Americans scream that they are resisting tyranny, wars, and debt, but do you see any protests?

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-28-2021, 10:21 PM)newvoter Wrote: Americans scream that they are resisting tyranny, wars, and debt, but do you see any protests?

The BLM protests are out of season.  If Biden doesn't take major legislative action before the weather warms up, the protests will start again.  I seem to remember the racists protesting at the capital on January 6.  With the high security at the Washington DC and state capitols and the legal actions pending, they haven't decided on a new stratagy.

Oh, people are letting each other know they care enough.  With the new administration the protest level may be coming down.  If the unraveling Republican policy was to not change, to not solve the problems, the crisis Democratic policy of solving the problems seems to have cut way back on the need to protest.

Keynes proposed spending in bad times, paying down in good.  Voodoo proposes stimulating all the time, and they wonder why the economy collapses after they hold the White House for a while.  The parties seem to agree on the spending in bad times part.  We'll see what happens when the economy recovers.

[Einzige]

Quote:the crisis Democratic policy of solving the problems

Lol. Did you hear about the new vaccine resistant strain of COVID?