Does the UK disprove the Fourth Turning?

[AspieMillennial]

People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

[Warren Dew]

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

1997 is toward the end of the third turning.  I'd think that restrictive control would be indicative of a crisis period - perhaps early entry into a crisis period.

[beechnut79]

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

Relaxing restrictions is actually a 2T hallmark, free love being the most obvious example. 3Ts are actually times of crackdowns on deviant behavior, the Big Three being the major crackdowns on public smoking, drunk driving and sexual harassment, which were force fed to whatever holdouts there were. And during the previous 3T there was the all out prohibition of liquor.

[beechnut79]

(11-11-2019, 11:16 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is als ito said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

1997 is toward the end of the third turning.  I'd think that restrictive control would be indicative of a crisis period - perhaps early entry into a crisis period.

No. 1997, when the original 4T book was published, was smack dab in the middle of the 3T.

[Hintergrund]

And of course, during the Crisis things get even tougher, and during the High, usually aren't relaxed either. (Except for the spoilt "Prophet" kids.)

[beechnut79]

(11-12-2019, 04:17 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: And of course, during the Crisis things get even tougher, and during the High, usually aren't relaxed either. (Except for the spoilt "Prophet" kids.)

Looking back today, though, it seems as though life was more relaxed during the last 1T than it is today.

[Bill the Piper]

During the last 3T in America - the Prohibition.

[Teejay]

(11-11-2019, 01:04 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

Relaxing restrictions is actually a 2T hallmark, free love being the most obvious example. 3Ts are actually times of crackdowns on deviant behavior, the Big Three being the major crackdowns on public smoking, drunk driving and sexual harassment, which were force fed to whatever holdouts there were. And during the previous 3T there was the all out prohibition of liquor.

Especially when you an Apollonian Idealist generation, like the American Missionaries were, along with both the British Generation 68ers and Aussie Boomers are.

[AspieMillennial]

(11-19-2019, 02:24 AM)Teejay Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 01:04 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

Relaxing restrictions is actually a 2T hallmark, free love being the most obvious example. 3Ts are actually times of crackdowns on deviant behavior, the Big Three being the major crackdowns on public smoking, drunk driving and sexual harassment, which were force fed to whatever holdouts there were. And during the previous 3T there was the all out prohibition of liquor.

Especially when you an Apollonian Idealist generation, like the American Missionaries were, along with both the British Generation 68ers and Aussie Boomers are.

From what you describe about the crackdowns on everything during your teen years, it doesn't seem like Gen X teen years. Gen X was allowed a very high amount of freedom in the US for both their childhood and teen years. They grew up very unrestricted and wild. Gen X in the US is seen as the forgotten generation. The big restrictions that you described happening were things Gen Xers in the US never faced.

[Teejay]

(11-19-2019, 04:06 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: From what you describe about the crackdowns on everything during your teen years, it doesn't seem like Gen X teen years. Gen X was allowed a very high amount of freedom in the US for both their childhood and teen years. They grew up very unrestricted and wild. Gen X in the US is seen as the forgotten generation. The big restrictions that you described happening were things Gen Xers in the US never faced.

AspieMillennial,

I would compare the relationship between Australian Generation X equivalents and Aussie Boomers with that of the US Lost Generation and the Missionaries, rather than the American Generation X and the Boomers. Since Australia is an Apollonian (like America was during the Great Power Saeculum), not Dionysian saeculum, which America is currently in.


Therefore; Australian Boomers greatly resemble the US Missionaries (both are Apollonian Prophet Generations), if they embraced New Age Spirituality, hence the term I have coined for some Aussie Boomers as 'New Age Missionaries'.
Indeed, Australian Boomers are as anti-illicit drugs as the US Missionaries were anti-alcohol. Not to mention Australian Boomers since the 1990s have engaged in numerous crusades, like the US Missionaries did.

It is notable that the various ‘nanny state’ laws started to be introduced in the 1990s, with two main intentions, that were the following; Deny Xers the freedoms that Boomers enjoyed when they were young, also to protect their Millennial children. This crackdown on the 'bad Xers' includes measures such as various requirements in order to keep receiving unemployment benefits, such as compulsory job search requirements and even participating in 'work for the dole' projects.

[Teejay]

Britain* is certainly deep into a Crisis now, because the whole country is literally in the grip of Millennialism, which what is being described as the Brexit Revolution is just a symptom of.
 
This Millennialism started with the Global Financial Crisis, which deeply affected the British populace, it made them totally revaluate their nation’s institutions, also ideologies such as Brexit, Corbynism and Scottish Independence became popular among the population.  Indeed, I would argue that a referendum on the UK’s membership in the European Union, was enviable regardless who was in power.

Since the Brexit referendum, the population has become increasingly radical on a wide range of issues, not just wither or not the UK should remain in the European Union. Also, the Brexit revolution has gone down a path, which I don’t believe anybody anticipated when they decided to go down this road, without any idea where it would led.

*I am referring to just Great Britain here, because Ireland is on another saeculum and is now in a very early Awakening. Ireland is going through a revolution, rather it is a cultural rather than a political one which Britain is undergoing.

[Hintergrund]

(11-19-2019, 04:06 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(11-19-2019, 02:24 AM)Teejay Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 01:04 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

Relaxing restrictions is actually a 2T hallmark, free love being the most obvious example. 3Ts are actually times of crackdowns on deviant behavior, the Big Three being the major crackdowns on public smoking, drunk driving and sexual harassment, which were force fed to whatever holdouts there were. And during the previous 3T there was the all out prohibition of liquor.

Especially when you an Apollonian Idealist generation, like the American Missionaries were, along with both the British Generation 68ers and Aussie Boomers are.

From what you describe about the crackdowns on everything during your teen years, it doesn't seem like Gen X teen years. Gen X was allowed a very high amount of freedom in the US for both their childhood and teen years. They grew up very unrestricted and wild. Gen X in the US is seen as the forgotten generation. The big restrictions that you described happening were things Gen Xers in the US never faced.

'k, then explain why they became the most incarcerated generation of American history. Those X-ers who only see that they had lots of freedom were just lucky.

[Eric the Green]

Brexit = 4T UK. It's not over; Brexit is going to be hard for the UK to manage.

In circa 2025, as often happens, the UK (or England/Wales if its other parts secede by then) may get involved in whatever foreign war the US gets involved in at that time.

[Eric the Green]

(11-20-2019, 03:03 AM)Hintergrund Wrote:

(11-19-2019, 04:06 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote:

(11-19-2019, 02:24 AM)Teejay Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 01:04 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(11-11-2019, 10:41 AM)AspieMillennial Wrote: People say that the 3T is supposed to be about relaxing restrictions and having more freedoms but many more laws have been passed since 1997 to restrict freedom. Anti social behavior orders come to mind and so does the current knife control and past gun control efforts. This is also said to be a time of individualism. Yet anti social behavior orders and the very stringent laws passed are against the individual.

Relaxing restrictions is actually a 2T hallmark, free love being the most obvious example. 3Ts are actually times of crackdowns on deviant behavior, the Big Three being the major crackdowns on public smoking, drunk driving and sexual harassment, which were force fed to whatever holdouts there were. And during the previous 3T there was the all out prohibition of liquor.

Especially when you an Apollonian Idealist generation, like the American Missionaries were, along with both the British Generation 68ers and Aussie Boomers are.

From what you describe about the crackdowns on everything during your teen years, it doesn't seem like Gen X teen years. Gen X was allowed a very high amount of freedom in the US for both their childhood and teen years. They grew up very unrestricted and wild. Gen X in the US is seen as the forgotten generation. The big restrictions that you described happening were things Gen Xers in the US never faced.

'k, then explain why they became the most incarcerated generation of American history. Those X-ers who only see that they had lots of freedom were just lucky.

The "freedom" was mostly the neglect and permissiveness of parents. Latch-key kids and such. That's why Xers are self-reliant and inner-directed.

But the freedom of the 2T and the neglect led to high crime, "youth problems" and anti-social behavior, which the authors said were rising among boomers as the boomer years went on and reached the peak among core Xers. The peak happened in 1990, and soon after the US crime bill was passed. Since then neglect has declined and boomers became helicopter parents of millennial kids. Now Gen Z kids are considered to be nice and helpful.

[pbrower2a]

(01-01-2020, 04:19 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Brexit = 4T UK. It's not over; Brexit is going to be hard for the UK to manage.

In circa 2025, as often happens, the UK (or England/Wales if its other parts secede by then) may get involved in whatever foreign war the US gets involved in at that time.

Shortsighted thinking leads to suspect politics (Trump, Bolsonaro, Brexit)... suspect politics lead to economic and political messes; the 4T brings almost as a rule a messy culmination in a rejection of bad habits that got a country into a mess. Just hope that foreign powers don't have to solve the mess for you, as here: