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(05-28-2020, 07:53 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (05-28-2020, 07:21 AM)David Horn Wrote: Brazil is certainly less temperate than the US, but it's still seasonal in the social sense of the term. If it isn't the social effect of an arriving Fall, then it's a mystery to me why this is starting now. I haven't heard much about countries further south, like Argentina, Uruguay and Chile.
I had been assuming they just had less travel with Wuhan or Europe. They seem not too far behind the US. I'm no expert on Brazil, however.
... nor am I.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.
If the four cops had been arrested immediately and held pending charges, I doubt any of this would have occurred. If they had been charged with murder, it would have stopped this cold.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.
They're your racist murders, not ours. These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.
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(05-29-2020, 08:58 AM)David Horn Wrote: (05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.
If the four cops had been arrested immediately and held pending charges, I doubt any of this would have occurred. If they had been charged with murder, it would have stopped this cold.
And what would have happened when the Grand Jury returned no bill due to a premature attempt at indictment?
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(05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.
They're your racist murders, not ours. These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.
Can you guess why they are Democrat controlled? There is a long long history of prejudice which many are trying to stop. Trump has been cheerleading the violence. Simple equality could end it, but there is a culture of superiority that declines to be wiped out. As long as this persists, so will the response.
One thought I had is that the cop at the heart of it had a long list of complaints filed against him. The powers that be decided to ignore them. At this time they should review anyone with a compatible number of complaints and preemptively fire them.
Changing a culture is not easy. It has to be done.
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(05-29-2020, 10:13 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: And what would have happened when the Grand Jury returned no bill due to a premature attempt at indictment?
If they managed to pick a grand jury infected by the same racism as the cops, if said jury could honestly review the tapes and not indict, if the judge gave racist instructions that led them not to indict, then more of the city would burn.
This will not change until the underlying culture does. It seems the only way to move the underlying culture. Racism is stubborn. If you doubt it, check the nearest mirror.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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(05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-28-2020, 10:28 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The interesting thing about 4th turnings, is that they are social moments. 2nd turnings are supposed to be totally opposite, but that's not always true. Often there is some of the opposite trend within the other. They are both social moments.
The transcendentalists came out in force with their writings in the 1850s, and Whitman's poetry in the 1860s; and the romantic movement got going in Europe in the French Revolution. Even in the 1930s and 40s there were some religious and metaphysical interests going.
It's even more clear that 2nd turnings also include movements to change society, and they are often effective. And it's not just about freedom movements for individuals; especially in the more "apollonian" 2nd turning the progressive movement pushed for a lot of reforms of bad practices by industry, and labor unions and socialist parties advanced as they never have before or since. And although there were huge rights movements in the 60s and 70s, the environment and peace movements of the 1960s were not just about rights, but as John Lennon said a world where we could be one. And at the 2nd turning's beginning, the Great Society completed the New Deal.
In the 2nd turning, there is more prosperity, but often the economy is unstable, and more recessions occur than during 1st and 3rd turnings. But it's not a time when we face destruction of we don't take action, which is the case in 4th turnings. In 2nd turnings institutions still work but changes are being demanded of them. In 4th turnings they fall apart and have to be rebuilt in a different way.
But sometimes in 4th turnings, as we face the crisis, we also turn toward spiritual sources for answers too. Not so much to find self-reliance, as in a typical USA 2nd or 3rd turning, but to find a spiritual basis for building a community which serves human needs, including spiritual and aesthetic needs. America tends to separate these too much, but that's why our society is sick. The more we can combine 2nd and 4th turnings in our social moments, the healthier we will be as a society and culture.
We have no leadership now in the covid crisis, as Mr. Howe pointed out (and as I point out). We have not taken a stand and are not planning out any solutions, but waxing and waning from one direction to the next, even from day to day. One think our 4T needs to teach us, is to respect government and leadership again. I hope we are ready to learn that lesson, and vote Democratic in November, and then continue to be civially active and pressuring our leaders to serve the people. "We're all in this together" has been a Democratic Party slogan used by Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton. Now everyone except the crazy resisters is using it. It's a 4T mood, and I hope it sticks around for a while and determines our votes for a while.
Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.
Ironically, the blue leadership in Minneapolis is on the side of Mr. Floyd and his family, with the mayor asking for what should be done, charging his murderer, and the police chief seems sympathetic. But African Americans have been frustrated over and over that police get away with murdering a black man. Police have a greater responsibility than anyone to obey the law, and they should be MORE severely punished, not less, for disobeying it and committing crimes-- especially murder. It is understandable that they riot. I don't think it's good strategy, or justified, for a few to loot and burn, especially when they have some officials on their side, but I understand why it happens. Remember what JFK said: when the rights of one are violated, the rights of all are threatened. If police can violate the rights of a man and kill him because he is black, then they can do the same to you. And it does happen too.
The question is why does this kind of police crime still happen after all the incidents we've seen now on video and such. It really shows how pervasive racism is, especially on your side of the aisle, and among policemen. Police are trained to kill, and yet your side requires that police be the only social workers in town. That is one reason for these crimes; police are not trained to handle people with respect, but only to kill them, and they are sometimes racist. The blue side needs to win so that social workers exist again, and police are trained to help and not kill people. Police work for the people, and deserve respect, but they also have to earn respect, which they have lost among the black community because of their poor conduct.
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05-29-2020, 01:08 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2020, 01:08 PM by Warren Dew.)
(05-29-2020, 12:52 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The question is why does this kind of police crime still happen after all the incidents we've seen now on video and such. It really shows how pervasive racism is, especially on your side of the aisle, and among policemen.
It has nothing to do with racism. It has to do with the deference the criminal justice system gives to police. Garner's killer got off. Same happens with police who kill people who are not black. A few get convicted, but the conviction rate is much lower than for nonpolice.
The racism is on your side of the aisle, for believing that black people are not smart enough to fend for themselves and have to be given affirmative action and welfare, with the implicit Democratic promise to their white suburban base that that will keep black people in their place, with these police forces to enforce that.
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(05-29-2020, 10:37 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.
They're your racist murders, not ours. These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.
Can you guess why they are Democrat controlled?
I don't have to guess. I know why they are Democrat controlled. Democrats are racist, and can come up with a story that "protects" white Democrats from blacks, while allowing said whites to feel good about it.
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05-29-2020, 01:20 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2020, 03:35 PM by Eric the Green.)
(05-29-2020, 01:10 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-29-2020, 10:37 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.
They're your racist murders, not ours. These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.
Can you guess why they are Democrat controlled?
I don't have to guess. I know why they are Democrat controlled. Democrats are racist, and can come up with a story that "protects" white Democrats from blacks, while allowing said whites to feel good about it.
Despite their spoken good intentions, the white Democrats who rule cities cannot seem to get a handle on the racism and brutality that is built into police departments. I don't see why reform can't occur; can you? No wonder some blacks feel they have to be violent. Nothing has been done after decades and decades of police murders and unjust violence.
Cities are Democratic for the obvious reason that Democratic policies, however inadequate, serve the people of cities better. Actually spending some money and making plans to improve life in the city seems worth supporting by urban folks, while intentionally perpetuating poverty and poor services in order to save tax money for fat cats does not. But at least in some blue states, some Republican governors and maybe even a mayor or two can be elected if they don't follow the usual red-state Republican playbook.
Voters in urban areas are urbane, not provincial and parochial. They are more educated and informed, and see the issues as they exist, not as their preachers and bosses tell them to see it. They are also more ethnically and religiously diverse, which Democrats recognize and try to serve, while Republicans depend only on white guys and appeal to their prejudices and fears of black violence for their support. The more Republicans depend on this approach, the fewer voters they get in urban and many suburban areas.
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(05-29-2020, 12:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (05-28-2020, 12:55 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (05-28-2020, 11:08 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: The real problem in Brazil is extreme poverty in the favelas, the slums around Brazil's giant cities. Reliable running water is a commonplace lack for Brazil's poor. Frequent washing with soap and water does much to kill the COVID-19 virus by destroying the outer membrane of the virus and causing its disintegration before the virus can cause infection. Because soap is not a harsh chemical it can give us the impression that it does little more than facilitate the removal of dirt and germs. It kills viruses, so it is not simply the passive cleaner that many of us think it is.
I understand their leader is another guy similar to Trump in not pushing the isolation precautions as well, but yes.
Indeed, Bolsonaro is even more brazen and more consistent in his denials of covid, and in his overall dedication to wanton destruction (such as clearing the amazon rainforest). He is not only a Trump clone, and is valued and complimented as such by Trump, but a caricature of him; a clown acting out the role of a clown. He is even more of a ridiculous lunatic than Trump. I don't know if they have late-night TV comics there, but they must be the richest people in the country by now if they do. It is a sad commentary on that country, which had a fairly good leader for a while, Mr. Lulu, who is re-emerging. But meanwhile Brazil is reaping the rewards of their horrible mistake. And the crisis is far worse than it appears, apparently, because there is so little testing that something like a third of all the tests they do make must be positive, according to the stats.
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05-29-2020, 03:42 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2020, 04:11 PM by Eric the Green.)
(05-29-2020, 01:08 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: [quote='Eric the Green' pid='53467' dateline='1590774725']
The question is why does this kind of police crime still happen after all the incidents we've seen now on video and such. It really shows how pervasive racism is, especially on your side of the aisle, and among policemen.
It has nothing to do with racism. It has to do with the deference the criminal justice system gives to police. Garner's killer got off. Same happens with police who kill people who are not black. A few get convicted, but the conviction rate is much lower than for nonpolice.
Quote:But the fact that most of these killings are of black men does indicate racism, as well as deference to police.
[quote]
The racism is on your side of the aisle, for believing that black people are not smart enough to fend for themselves and have to be given affirmative action and welfare, with the implicit Democratic promise to their white suburban base that that will keep black people in their place, with these police forces to enforce that.
No, your side's free-market ideology is racist for believing that everyone should pull themselves up by their bootstraps in spite of the historic discrimination and enslavement many have faced right up to the present time. Your side is to blame for promoting this ideology that life has to be competitive and that everyone should be a greedy capitalist because that's survival of the fittest. And they promote this ideology that is a racist dog whistle and then claim not to be racist because they might not explicitly mention race. But from the southern strategy of Nixon, to the anti-welfare scapegoating of Reagan, to the blatant xenophobia of Trump, racism has been a part of Republican ideology for decades.
http://philosopherswheel.com/freemarket.html
When white suburban votes want blacks kept in their place, they vote Republican.
"Republicans have been feeding their base all kinds of crazy for years." -- Obama
https://time.com/4531108/president-obama...publicans/
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05-29-2020, 04:16 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-29-2020, 05:16 PM by Eric the Green.)
We have the most cases because we do the most testing? Notice that we are #1 in total cases (#6 per M pop) and #16 per M pop in testing.
Trump lies again.
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thr...l#pid53441
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(05-29-2020, 04:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:
We have the most cases because we do the most testing? Notice that we are #1 in total cases (#6 per M pop) and #16 per M pop in testing.
Trump lies again.
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thr...l#pid53441
Yep. We have the most cases because we have the most testing. I understand that it doesn't make sense to you and most liberal but what I don't understand is why it doesn't make sense to the people who are supposed to be the smartest people these days.
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(05-29-2020, 05:46 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-29-2020, 04:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We have the most cases because we do the most testing? Notice that we are #1 in total cases (#6 per M pop) and #16 per M pop in testing.
Trump lies again.
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thr...l#pid53441
Yep. We have the most cases because we have the most testing. I understand that it doesn't make sense to you and most liberal but what I don't understand is why it doesn't make sense to the people who are supposed to be the smartest people these days.
Hmm? I know they taught me new math in elementary school, but can't you get that the numbers mean many cases and few tests? Even a conservative should be able to understand that.
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(05-29-2020, 08:58 AM)David Horn Wrote: (05-29-2020, 12:44 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unfortunately, the we are in this together slogan isn't going to last much longer. We are seeing your sides leadership in Minneapolis RIGHT NOW and it sucks. Personally, I don't care if your blue folks loot and burn the fucking place to the ground.
If the four cops had been arrested immediately and held pending charges, I doubt any of this would have occurred. If they had been charged with murder, it would have stopped this cold.
I don't have a problem with you and every other liberal here giving up your legal protections and your rights to due process to appease Black Lives Matter and pacify a fellow liberal hate group and grant anyone the power string you up. I'd say the blue fuck nuts have got off pretty easy at this point. As far as I know only one negro has been shot by an Arab for looting so far. I'm sure that racism was involved with that killing too. So, is it your interest to be viewed as a white nigger and treated like a white nigger by an American who doesn't give a shit about skin color. Ain't much difference between the black niggers and the white niggers and the brown niggers and yellow niggers and the red niggers and the coalition of morons of various skin tones looking to make names for themselves among liberal groups today.
We can slide American rules aside for a moment and do some mob rule too at anytime. I mean WTF, what's good for the liberal goose is good for the more conservative gander right. I saw Al Sharpton doing the shit that he does for a living again here too. As I've told you before, I place more value on a whitetail deer than I place on most people like you and most of the scumbags that your side seems to cater too and attract these days. I sure hope those ghetto slugs of yours don't decide to come into to town and pop off some rounds tonight. I'd sure hate to hate to lay some of them out this evening because that's what's coming next and based on what the governor what saying today the governor seems to understand that that IS what's coming next. I'm going to give you a fucking hint, there is no difference between me and an equal Democrat or an equal person of any race when this SHIT turns/moves from racism to class over night. You have a problem with race but you have an even bigger problem with class. I could tell early on that you and your group had very limited experience with hard nosed/ old school Gen Xr's that exist in large numbers on the other side who have no qualms with playing rough or being coarse or druthers when it comes to dealing with ghetto slugs.
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(05-29-2020, 06:48 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (05-29-2020, 05:46 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (05-29-2020, 04:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: We have the most cases because we do the most testing? Notice that we are #1 in total cases (#6 per M pop) and #16 per M pop in testing.
Trump lies again.
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thr...l#pid53441
Yep. We have the most cases because we have the most testing. I understand that it doesn't make sense to you and most liberal but what I don't understand is why it doesn't make sense to the people who are supposed to be the smartest people these days.
Hmm? I know they taught me new math in elementary school, but can't you get that the numbers mean many cases and few tests? Even a conservative should be able to understand that.
The more testing they do, the more unknown cases they find, the higher the number of known cases that we are of rise. What's so difficult about understanding that and what is so difficult about accepting that as truthful? OK. Liberals being the smartest has already been debunked. So, it's a matter of how stupid do you and others here want to be viewed by others at this point. I know they taught me old math in elementary school and even more complicated versions of math in junior and senior high school which was pretty the same (the norm) as you were taught back then because we must likely learned from the same text books. I have an older brother and sister your age. I was stuck in advanced classes like my older brother but I wasn't as into school and I didn't feel that I had something to prove to our dad like my older brother.
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(05-29-2020, 07:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The more testing they do, the more unknown cases they find, the higher the number of known cases that we are of rise. What's so difficult about understanding that and what is so difficult about accepting that as truthful?
Fewer test while more cases. The more you test, the more you find. Thus, there are more undetected cases out there. Let us accept that Trump is reducing the number of tests to reduce how bad he looks, and as a byproduct he is making smart isolation harder to do. With isolation being reduced in red states that are still increasing the caseload under their minimal isolation, the possibility of overloading the health system is really there.
The bottom line is that it is bad and getting worse in the middle of the country. Can you comprehend that?
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05-30-2020, 04:44 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2020, 05:11 AM by Eric the Green.)
(05-29-2020, 07:38 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (05-29-2020, 07:23 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The more testing they do, the more unknown cases they find, the higher the number of known cases that we are of rise. What's so difficult about understanding that and what is so difficult about accepting that as truthful?
Fewer test while more cases. The more you test, the more you find. Thus, there are more undetected cases out there. Let us accept that Trump is reducing the number of tests to reduce how bad he looks, and as a byproduct he is making smart isolation harder to do. With isolation being reduced in red states that are still increasing the caseload under their minimal isolation, the possibility of overloading the health system is really there.
The bottom line is that it is bad and getting worse in the middle of the country. Can you comprehend that?
Indeed, the number of new cases is rising again in the world and the USA, up to 25000 in the USA again. Fewer daily deaths, but still high.
12 AM GMT May 30, 2020
place / total cases / new cases / total deaths / new deaths
World / 6,026,418 / +125,511 / 366,422 / +4,873
1 USA / 1,793,530 / +25,069 / 104,542 / +1212
2 Brazil / 468,338 / +29,526 / 27,944 / +1180
3 Russia / 387,623 / +8,572 / 4,374 / +232
4 Spain / 285,644 / +658 / 27,121 / +2
5 UK / 271,222 / +2,095 / 38,161 / +324
6 Italy / 232,248 / +516 / 33,229 / +87
7 France / 186,835 / +597 / 28,714 / +52
8 Germany / 183,019 / +567 / 8,594 / +24
9 India / 173,491 / +8,105 / 4,980 / +269
10 Turkey / 162,120 / +1,141 / 4,489 / +28
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/
+28
The Trump/Trump clone-ruled countries have the highest number of new cases and deaths. Half the new deaths in the world are in Trumpland and Bolsonaroland.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/us/
In the USA, we see cases rising in Florida and Texas. CA cases are still high in Los Angeles and SoCAL. North Carolina cases are rising, and every state including red states in the middle and south have hundreds of new cases every day.
People talk about a second wave, but the way I see it now, the first wave is just going to keep happening until we can get Trump outta-there.
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05-30-2020, 05:47 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-30-2020, 05:56 AM by Eric the Green.)
(05-29-2020, 10:12 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-29-2020, 08:01 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I do care if you red folk keep up your racist murders.
They're your racist murders, not ours. These things seem only to happen in Democrat controlled cities.
Almost all cities are Democratic controlled, because that's where Democrats live in our divided urban vs. rural society, but there have been famous police racist murders on rural streets in Louisiana and in Texas too, as well as in smaller cities in Ohio and the northern midwest as I recall, as well as that small town in Georgia recently where former policemen murdered a young black athlete just out for a jog.
The cities with the most police killings are in red and purple states. The map of police killings in 2019 do not exclude any area of the country. Blacks are 3x more likely to be victims of police killings. Only one out of 100 police killers are ever convicted for their crime, which is why blacks people get so angry. The cities with the most police killings were in red states like Oklahoma (OK City is the worst, and it is Republican-controlled), Arizona, Missouri, Texas, Nebraska, Florida.... Despite the well-known Eric Garner case, which was similar to the Minneapolis one, blue New York has the least number of police killings according to this site.
https://mappingpoliceviolence.org/
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