The Coronavirus

[pbrower2a]

(The Chicago Symphony Orchestra) Cancels Remainder of 2020-21 Season

By Keegan Morris | January 14, 2021


The Chicago Symphony Orchestra today announced the cancellation of all 2020-21 season programs from April 1 to June 13, 2021, extending cancellations that had been announced previously. The cancellation is in accordance with the state and city’s safety guidelines around the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic, the statement says. Plans for the 2021-22 season are still pending, the statement shared, and will be announced later this spring.

Without live, in-person concerts, the CSO will turn to its digital platform, CSOtv, to release free and premium video content. Part of the CSOtv offerings is the orchestra’s new, free podcast, interMISSION @ the CSO, a series of conversations with CSO musicians that will continue despite the season cancellation. From the CSO’s Archives: The First 130 Years and the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Radio Broadcast Series, the orchestra’s two weekly broadcast series on WFMT, will continue.

The announcement quotes the Chicago Symphony Orchestra Association president Jeff Alexander, who said, “As the conditions of the pandemic evolve, we continue to follow the guidance of public health officials to ensure the health and safety of our patrons, musicians, guest artists and staff… We remain focused on preparations that allow Maestro Muti and the Orchestra to come together to make music and to welcome audiences again to Symphony Center when it is safe to do so.”

Patrons with tickets to now-canceled concerts will automatically have the value of their tickets placed on their account, the announcements states, and will have the option to keep that value for future purchases or convert the value into a donation for the orchestra’s Music Ahead fund. Visit cso.org, call 312-294-3000, or email patronservices@cso.org to review these options.

https://www.wfmt.com/2021/01/14/cso-canc...21-season/

[Bob Butler 54]

CNN is reporting a poll showing two thirds of Americans are willing to be vaccinated.  I have a feeling this includes many who are taking no precautions, but they will be a problem anyway.  

There is only so much vaccine to go around.  Might as well start with the willing.

[pbrower2a]

(01-21-2021, 06:07 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: CNN is reporting a poll showing two thirds of Americans are willing to be vaccinated.  I have a feeling this includes many who are taking no precautions, but they will be a problem anyway.  

There is only so much vaccine to go around.  Might as well start with the willing.

I expect to take precautions after I am vaccinated.

[pbrower2a]

New President... COVID-19 is still killing.

President Biden is doing much right that Trump did wrong, but COVID-19 is still contagious. Many who want to be vaccinated for it are still on the waiting list

Mask it or casket, folks.

[Bob Butler 54]

I got to page 4 before finding this thread.  Does that mean progress?

Anyway, CNN seems to think so.  New Cases are way down.  More people are beginning to respect the precautions.

[pbrower2a]

(01-22-2021, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: New President... COVID-19 is still killing.

President Biden is doing much right that Trump did wrong, but COVID-19 is still contagious. Many who want to be vaccinated for it are still on the waiting list

Mask it or casket, folks.

Update: I am scheduled for the first injection on Wednesday, in case anyone cares.

[Eric the Green]

rank..Country...........Total Cases......New Cases....Total Deaths.....New Deaths

.........World.............109,401,919....+300,842......2,411,552........+7,144

1.......USA..................28,261,470....+64,297..........497,174........+1,111
2.......India.................10,916,172....+11,434..........155,764.............+91
3.......Brazil..................9,834,513.....+23,258.........239,294...........+647
4.......Russia................4,071,883.....+14,185...........80,126............+430
5.......UK.....................4,038,078......+10,972........117,166............+258
6.......France...............3,465,163......+16,546...........81,814...........+167
7.......Spain.................3,074,344.......+8,236............65,215...........+234
8.......Italy...................2,721,872.....+11,061............93,577...........+221
9.......Turkey...............2,586,183.......+6,287............27,471.............+94
10.....Germany............2,341,706.......+4,801............65,566...........+151
11.....Colombia............2,195,039.......+4,923............57,605...........+180
12.....Argentina...........2,025,798.......+4,245............50,236.............+48
13.....Mexico...............1,988,695.......+9,741..........173,771.........+1,214
14.....Poland...............1,588,954.......+5,333............40,807..............+98
15.....Iran...................1,518,263.......+7,390............58,945..............+62
16.....South Africa.......1,491,807.......+1,744............47,899..............+78
17.....Ukraine..............1,271,143.......+3,094............24,330..............+45
18.....Peru..................1,235,298.......+8,093............43,703.............+212
19.....Indonesia..........1,217,468........+6,765............33,183............+247
20.....Czechia.............1,088,028........+5,126............18,187..............+73

As of Feb 14, 2021
The contagion has not yet gone below the previous surges.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


#.....State...................Total Cases.....New Cases....Total Deaths....New Deaths
.......USA Total.............28,261,470.....+64,297........497,174.........+1,111
1.....California................3,471,766.......+5,787.........47,055............+200
2.....Texas.....................2,573,699.......+4,375.........41,535............+129
3.....Florida....................1,827,373.......+5,436.........28,779..............+96
4.....New York................1,576,188.......+7,219.........46,069............+122
5.....Illinois.....................1,162,154.......+1,631.........22,121.............+34
6.....Georgia......................964,737.......+1,929.........15,871.............+21
7.....Ohio..........................939,350.......+1,809..........16,346..............+6
8.....Pennsylvania..............899,476.......+2,438..........23,190............+22
9.....North Carolina............821,894.......+3,170..........10,491............+38
10....Arizona.....................797,270........+1,947..........14,978...........+30
11....Tennessee................757,418........+1,347..........10,933...........+31
12....New Jersey...............745,987........+2,168..........22,454...........+14
13....Indiana.....................648,875........+1,218..........12,173...........+24
14....Michigan...................628,956...........?................16,119 ..............?
15....Massachusetts...........557,777........+1,882..........15,484...........+60
16....Wisconsin..................555,303..........+503............6,162.............+1
17....Virginia......................549,999........+2,575...........7,012...........+16
18....Missouri.....................512,926...........?.................8,022 ..............?
19....South Carolina...........487,293..........+4,153..........7,998..........+87
20....Alabama....................480,931..........+1,075..........9,242..............?

[beechnut79]

(02-15-2021, 01:16 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: rank..Country...........Total Cases......New Cases....Total Deaths.....New Deaths

.........World.............109,401,919....+300,842......2,411,552........+7,144

1.......USA..................28,261,470....+64,297..........497,174........+1,111
2.......India.................10,916,172....+11,434..........155,764.............+91
3.......Brazil..................9,834,513.....+23,258.........239,294...........+647
4.......Russia................4,071,883.....+14,185...........80,126............+430
5.......UK.....................4,038,078......+10,972........117,166............+258
6.......France...............3,465,163......+16,546...........81,814...........+167
7.......Spain.................3,074,344.......+8,236............65,215...........+234
8.......Italy...................2,721,872.....+11,061............93,577...........+221
9.......Turkey...............2,586,183.......+6,287............27,471.............+94
10.....Germany............2,341,706.......+4,801............65,566...........+151
11.....Colombia............2,195,039.......+4,923............57,605...........+180
12.....Argentina...........2,025,798.......+4,245............50,236.............+48
13.....Mexico...............1,988,695.......+9,741..........173,771.........+1,214
14.....Poland...............1,588,954.......+5,333............40,807..............+98
15.....Iran...................1,518,263.......+7,390............58,945..............+62
16.....South Africa.......1,491,807.......+1,744............47,899..............+78
17.....Ukraine..............1,271,143.......+3,094............24,330..............+45
18.....Peru..................1,235,298.......+8,093............43,703.............+212
19.....Indonesia..........1,217,468........+6,765............33,183............+247
20.....Czechia.............1,088,028........+5,126............18,187..............+73

As of Feb 14, 2021
The contagion has not yet gone below the previous surges.
https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/


#.....State...................Total Cases.....New Cases....Total Deaths....New Deaths
.......USA Total.............28,261,470.....+64,297........497,174.........+1,111
1.....California................3,471,766.......+5,787.........47,055............+200
2.....Texas.....................2,573,699.......+4,375.........41,535............+129
3.....Florida....................1,827,373.......+5,436.........28,779..............+96
4.....New York................1,576,188.......+7,219.........46,069............+122
5.....Illinois.....................1,162,154.......+1,631.........22,121.............+34
6.....Georgia......................964,737.......+1,929.........15,871.............+21
7.....Ohio..........................939,350.......+1,809..........16,346..............+6
8.....Pennsylvania..............899,476.......+2,438..........23,190............+22
9.....North Carolina............821,894.......+3,170..........10,491............+38
10....Arizona.....................797,270........+1,947..........14,978...........+30
11....Tennessee................757,418........+1,347..........10,933...........+31
12....New Jersey...............745,987........+2,168..........22,454...........+14
13....Indiana.....................648,875........+1,218..........12,173...........+24
14....Michigan...................628,956...........?................16,119 ..............?
15....Massachusetts...........557,777........+1,882..........15,484...........+60
16....Wisconsin..................555,303..........+503............6,162.............+1
17....Virginia......................549,999........+2,575...........7,012...........+16
18....Missouri.....................512,926...........?.................8,022 ..............?
19....South Carolina...........487,293..........+4,153..........7,998..........+87
20....Alabama....................480,931..........+1,075..........9,242..............?

I am wondering if any of you feel that once this pandemic is behind us, will there be a pent up demand for at least small to mid-size get-togethers, where you can let your hair down and have some fun. Have argued that nightlife was in short supply even before the pandemic hit. Where did all the fun loving, let your hair down, dance the night away single women go?  They were once in abundance. Any comfort for those like me who sorely miss the freer, more swinging times I came of age in?

[David Horn]

(02-15-2021, 02:16 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: I am wondering if any of you feel that once this pandemic is behind us, will there be a pent up demand for at least small to mid-size get-togethers, where you can let your hair down and have some fun. Have argued that nightlife was in short supply even before the pandemic hit. Where did all the fun loving, let your hair down, dance the night away single women go?  They were once in abundance. Any comfort for those like me who sorely miss the freer, more swinging times I came of age in?

Good questions. It's not typical for a 4T to be wild and crazy, but it's not the uptight 1T that's just around the corner either. 2Ts and 3Ts are much more wide open, but crisis-stress leads to stress relief. So maybe, yeah.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-22-2021, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: New President... COVID-19 is still killing.

President Biden is doing much right that Trump did wrong, but COVID-19 is still contagious. Many who want to be vaccinated for it are still on the waiting list

Mask it or casket, folks.

Yep. Mask it or casket for you dude. I wonder if there's a way to ship an illegal alien with COVID to your home or round you up and ship you to the areas they'll be infecting these days. Right now, I think it's going to require a serious dose of death and life threatening experiences among the Democrats to force them to become wiser and more productive and more in tune with reality at this point.

[beechnut79]

(02-15-2021, 03:49 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 02:16 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: I am wondering if any of you feel that once this pandemic is behind us, will there be a pent up demand for at least small to mid-size get-togethers, where you can let your hair down and have some fun. Have argued that nightlife was in short supply even before the pandemic hit. Where did all the fun loving, let your hair down, dance the night away single women go?  They were once in abundance. Any comfort for those like me who sorely miss the freer, more swinging times I came of age in?

Good questions.  It's not typical for a 4T to be wild and crazy, but it's not the uptight 1T that's just around the corner either.  2Ts and 3Ts are much more wide open, but crisis-stress leads to stress relief.  So maybe, yeah.

And yet I grew up in the 1T and to me it seemed less uptight than has the period from the late 1980s onward. In earlier times you could go shopping for groceries and have a friendly conversation with the checkout person about everything under the sun. No way have you been able to do that today. Over on the sister Facebook site I posted that there is now a much worse societal malaise than ever existed during the Jimmy Carter years, which was the beginning of the drift toward greater uptightness. Have you noticed that increasing uptightness has coincided with the advent of ever greater corporate concentration and power?.

[Eric the Green]

Seems a valid link to me, beechnut79

[pbrower2a]

(02-15-2021, 05:50 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-22-2021, 12:02 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: New President... COVID-19 is still killing.

President Biden is doing much right that Trump did wrong, but COVID-19 is still contagious. Many who want to be vaccinated for it are still on the waiting list

Mask it or casket, folks.

Yep. Mask it or casket for you  dude. I wonder if there's a way to ship an illegal alien with COVID to your home or round you up and ship you to the areas they'll be  infecting these days. Right now, I think it's going to require a serious dose of death and life threatening experiences  among the Democrats to force them to become wiser and more productive and more  in tune with reality  at this point.

I am scheduled for the first COVID-19 inoculation tomorrow at 11:45 AM EST. In another month or so, the second one.

[pbrower2a]

To put a human touch on an inhuman disease:

2/12/2021 08:00 am ET Updated 3 days ago
I’m An ICU Doctor. I’m Haunted By What I’ve Seen During The Recent COVID-19 Surge.
“I can’t stop thinking about the 40-something man who told me, ‘I can’t die like this. I just got engaged and have a 6-month-old baby.’ I encouraged him to be positive, but that didn’t stop him from dying two weeks later.”

Thanh Neville, M.D., M.S.H.S.
Guest Writer

COURTESY OF THANH H. NEVILLEThe author dressed in personal protective equipment in the ICU at UCLA Health.

Note: The author has received permission from the families involved to share the following anecdotes.

“Focus on all the positive that you have done. That is your entire mission statement — even if people die, you help them.”
I stared at my friend’s text, read it over and over, even as my tears fell and the words blurred. As an intensive care physician at UCLA Health and medical director of our ICU end-of-life program, I’ve agonized over the fact that COVID-19 has made me feel like I cannot live up to my own mission statement.

I received that text just a few weeks ago when we were at the height of the coronavirus pandemic in Los Angeles. Our quaternary care hospital has five adult ICUs and still, we’ve had to convert a regular medicine ward into an additional, makeshift ICU. We’ve expanded our usual two medical ICU teams to four teams, and we are rapidly burning through an elaborate backup system of critical care attending physicians.

The ICU feels like a battlefield, where we race from one disaster to the next to put out fires that just keep raging. Yes, we’ve seen triumphs, but the sheer volume of COVID-19 patients has overwhelmed any cause to celebrate and sadness is often all I can see.
Families delivering heartbreaking goodbyes to their dying loved ones via iPads have become familiar, but that doesn’t mean they’re ever any less jarring to witness. The number of deaths in one day in January was the same as the number of deaths we used to have in an entire week.

The sense of defeat has been palpable. There were many times when I felt a terrible need to cry but knew an emotional breakdown would take too much time and energy, and in this war, I have neither to spare. 
But even as the next ICU day awaits me, stories from the past few weeks replay in my head. 
I can’t stop thinking about the 40-something man who told me, “I can’t die like this. I just got engaged and have a 6-month-old baby.” I encouraged him to be positive, but that didn’t stop him from dying two weeks later after maximal aggressive care and a desperate attempt at cardiopulmonary resuscitation. 

I will never forget trying to comfort the patient who learned that his wife and mother had both died of COVID-19 while he was hospitalized in our unit. When I had to put him on a ventilator a few days later, I cowardly asked my resident to call his children and tell them they should FaceTime with him while they still could. He didn’t survive, and his children lost their father, mother and grandmother in a span of just a few weeks. 

I will never forget facilitating a phone call between a husband and wife who had been together since their teenage years. As I was setting up for his intubation, the wife said on speakerphone to her husband, “You don’t know this, but I just blew you a kiss,” and his last words to her were, “The kiss actually knocked my socks off. I love you.” After he died, she told me that the crematory was so backed up that it would take weeks before they got to him. She sobbed and said, “I asked them to put a blanket on him. I am worried that he will be so cold.”

I will never forget admitting a father and daughter at the same time for COVID-19 respiratory failure. When I learned that their family of five adults lived in a one-bedroom apartment, I was embarrassed to have asked about social distancing. I requested that they be placed in adjoining rooms, and in full personal protective equipment, I pushed the two ICU beds together so that the daughter could see her dying father one last time. internet's best stories, and interviews with their authors.


I will never forget a lung transplant patient’s final words as I was about to put a breathing tube down his windpipe: “I have faith in you guys.” His lung transplant had occurred less than a year ago, and regardless of how much faith he had in the medical field, he was denied the life he had fought so hard for.

Quote:These stories, and so many more, have given me an appreciation not just for life but for the enormity of human suffering that comes with it. Death is not an unfamiliar occurrence in the ICU, but COVID deaths feel different — sometimes unnecessary and often profoundly unfair.

These stories, and so many more, have given me an appreciation not just for life but for the enormity of human suffering that comes with it. Death is not an unfamiliar occurrence in the ICU, but COVID deaths feel different — sometimes unnecessary and often profoundly unfair. They say this virus does not discriminate, but I can assure you that is not true. It adversely affects the most vulnerable — those who can’t work from home, who can’t socially distance or who have chronic medical conditions.
Bearing witness to the triumphs and defeats of our ICU has taken its toll on all of the health care workers here. A patient’s recovery is our success, but a family’s loss is also our loss. I know I’m not alone when I say that these moments and experiences often enter my dreams or cause unrelenting insomnia. I know I’m not alone when I admit that I’ve had to double the dose of my antidepressant. I know I’m not alone when I say that a peaceful walk on a beautiful sunny day is often accompanied by a confusing myriad of emotions: relief that I’m away from the constant beeping of IV pumps and life support machines, envy that there are happy carefree people going about their lives, and guilt that I am not at a bedside putting out the flames that are engulfing our ICU.
There is no doubt that what we have witnessed and continue to witness will shape this entire generation of health care workers and how we practice for years to come. I can only hope that one day we will be able to look back and see these stories not as painful open wounds, but as well-healed battle scars.

Ask any one of my ICU colleagues and they will share their own heartbreaking stories ― stories that they will also never forget. And even more tragically, these stories will play out over and over again across this country if Americans don’t change their behaviors. My colleagues and I have fought many battles and will continue to do so, but this is not a war that health care workers can win alone. I know everyone in this country wants to get back to some sort of “normal.” I desperately want to believe in my own mission statement again.

We can’t go back and undo all the mistakes that we’ve made as a country or as individuals — mistakes that have contributed to the deaths of almost half a million Americans. As pandemic fatigue and desensitization to death spread, it is more important than ever for the nation to affirm and present a united, nonpartisan public health message.

Americans need to stop ignoring the realities of COVID-19 and take it seriously enough to protect not just themselves but the people around them. Wear a mask. Socially distance. Wash your hands. Be vigilant and kind. Take the vaccine when given the opportunity. Only then will we stop dying at unprecedented rates and start on the road back to recovery. Only then will health care workers be able to sleep through the night, take walks without guilt and go to work without bracing for another traumatizing day. Only then will our stories and their endings finally begin to change.

Thanh Neville, M.D., M.S.H.S., is an ICU physician and researcher at UCLA Health. She is also the medical director of UCLA Health’s 3 Wishes Program, an end-of-life initiative in which clinicians elicit and implement final wishes for dying patients and their families. For more from her, follow her on Twitter.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/covid-19-...8d444bc3bd

[Einzige]

(02-15-2021, 11:05 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 03:49 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 02:16 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: I am wondering if any of you feel that once this pandemic is behind us, will there be a pent up demand for at least small to mid-size get-togethers, where you can let your hair down and have some fun. Have argued that nightlife was in short supply even before the pandemic hit. Where did all the fun loving, let your hair down, dance the night away single women go?  They were once in abundance. Any comfort for those like me who sorely miss the freer, more swinging times I came of age in?

Good questions.  It's not typical for a 4T to be wild and crazy, but it's not the uptight 1T that's just around the corner either.  2Ts and 3Ts are much more wide open, but crisis-stress leads to stress relief.  So maybe, yeah.

And yet I grew up in the 1T and to me it seemed less uptight than has the period from the late 1980s onward. In earlier times you could go shopping for groceries and have a friendly conversation with the checkout person about everything under the sun. No way have you been able to do that today. Over on the sister Facebook site I posted that there is now a much worse societal malaise than ever existed during the Jimmy Carter years, which was the beginning of the drift toward greater uptightness. Have you noticed that increasing uptightness has coincided with the advent of ever greater corporate concentration and power?.

The whole period from Nixon on has been increasingly awful.

[David Horn]

(02-16-2021, 06:23 AM)Einzige Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 11:05 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 03:49 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 02:16 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: I am wondering if any of you feel that once this pandemic is behind us, will there be a pent up demand for at least small to mid-size get-togethers, where you can let your hair down and have some fun. Have argued that nightlife was in short supply even before the pandemic hit. Where did all the fun loving, let your hair down, dance the night away single women go?  They were once in abundance. Any comfort for those like me who sorely miss the freer, more swinging times I came of age in?

Good questions.  It's not typical for a 4T to be wild and crazy, but it's not the uptight 1T that's just around the corner either.  2Ts and 3Ts are much more wide open, but crisis-stress leads to stress relief.  So maybe, yeah.

And yet I grew up in the 1T and to me it seemed less uptight than has the period from the late 1980s onward. In earlier times you could go shopping for groceries and have a friendly conversation with the checkout person about everything under the sun. No way have you been able to do that today. Over on the sister Facebook site I posted that there is now a much worse societal malaise than ever existed during the Jimmy Carter years, which was the beginning of the drift toward greater uptightness. Have you noticed that increasing uptightness has coincided with the advent of ever greater corporate concentration and power?.

The whole period from Nixon on has been increasingly awful.

We don't agree on much.  We agree on that! The political drift to the right has left most of us exposed to harm -- even those of us in relatively decent financial and social condition.  Improvement requires a spine injection, and that may be starting, albeit slowly.

[Classic-Xer]

(02-16-2021, 06:01 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-16-2021, 06:23 AM)Einzige Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 11:05 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 03:49 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 02:16 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: I am wondering if any of you feel that once this pandemic is behind us, will there be a pent up demand for at least small to mid-size get-togethers, where you can let your hair down and have some fun. Have argued that nightlife was in short supply even before the pandemic hit. Where did all the fun loving, let your hair down, dance the night away single women go?  They were once in abundance. Any comfort for those like me who sorely miss the freer, more swinging times I came of age in?

Good questions.  It's not typical for a 4T to be wild and crazy, but it's not the uptight 1T that's just around the corner either.  2Ts and 3Ts are much more wide open, but crisis-stress leads to stress relief.  So maybe, yeah.

And yet I grew up in the 1T and to me it seemed less uptight than has the period from the late 1980s onward. In earlier times you could go shopping for groceries and have a friendly conversation with the checkout person about everything under the sun. No way have you been able to do that today. Over on the sister Facebook site I posted that there is now a much worse societal malaise than ever existed during the Jimmy Carter years, which was the beginning of the drift toward greater uptightness. Have you noticed that increasing uptightness has coincided with the advent of ever greater corporate concentration and power?.

The whole period from Nixon on has been increasingly awful.

We don't agree on much.  We agree on that! The political drift to the right has left most of us exposed to harm -- even those of us in relatively decent financial and social condition.  Improvement requires a spine injection, and that may be starting, albeit slowly.

What's wrong with you people these days? Why do so many of you rely on the spine of someone else and why are so many of you afraid of harm and being exposed to harm these days? So, what do you think about the new strains of COVID that Biden doesn't seem care about entering the country along our southern border these days? Dude, if you're looking for people with spines who aren't criminals or crooks, you're not going to find them on the Left these days. I mean, it took some people with spine who didn't care about laws to convince someone with no spine to break some election laws by changing election laws in key battle ground states to help Biden win. Oh, it also took some people with spine to fight with police and place their lives in harms way while destroying American monuments, police precincts and private property for months while being cheered on and supported by Democrats in higher office for several months which resulted in a bunch of them having the shit scared out of them while at work by an angry Right Wing mob. I think it's pretty clear that Eizige isn't going to fight to enrich big tech or the uber rich or die for Biden either.

[pbrower2a]

(02-16-2021, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-16-2021, 06:01 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-16-2021, 06:23 AM)Einzige Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 11:05 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(02-15-2021, 03:49 PM)David Horn Wrote: Good questions.  It's not typical for a 4T to be wild and crazy, but it's not the uptight 1T that's just around the corner either.  2Ts and 3Ts are much more wide open, but crisis-stress leads to stress relief.  So maybe, yeah.

And yet I grew up in the 1T and to me it seemed less uptight than has the period from the late 1980s onward. In earlier times you could go shopping for groceries and have a friendly conversation with the checkout person about everything under the sun. No way have you been able to do that today. Over on the sister Facebook site I posted that there is now a much worse societal malaise than ever existed during the Jimmy Carter years, which was the beginning of the drift toward greater uptightness. Have you noticed that increasing uptightness has coincided with the advent of ever greater corporate concentration and power?.

The whole period from Nixon on has been increasingly awful.

We don't agree on much.  We agree on that! The political drift to the right has left most of us exposed to harm -- even those of us in relatively decent financial and social condition.  Improvement requires a spine injection, and that may be starting, albeit slowly.

What's wrong with you people these days? Why do so many of you rely on the spine of someone else and why are so many of you afraid of harm and being exposed to harm  these days?

Because of people who act recklessly with respect to COVID-19 we are all exposed to protracted, severe harm! I don't drive drunk, and I don't mess with rattlesnakes -- but some people are stupid enough to do so. 

The people most likely to avoid wearing a mask were reactionary types who largely supported Donald Trump.

Quote:So, what do you think about the new strains of COVID that Biden doesn't seem care about entering the country along our southern border these days?

Joe Biden is not a trained physician or medical researcher. He defers to those on the issues of public health, including COVID-19. It's like the corporate CEO who was the director of marketing who leaves issues of accounting to the accountants and of product design to the engineers. 

"New strains of COVID-19 (really SARS-2)"? Viruses evolve too. It is not clear whether viruses evolved from more sophisticated life forms or existed before them, but they have been around for at least a similar time.  SARS-2 is itself a variant of the original SARS, which went extinct in humans  in 2004.

Quote:Dude, if you're looking for people with spines who aren't criminals or crooks, you're not going to find them on the Left these days.

Dude, do you even know what "spineless" means? It means lacking a moral aversion to doing horrible things because one is extremely obedient to someone else. If you recall The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich,  Adolf Hitler had as his favorite general for directing day-to-day operations of the German Army in Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, who went along with every crime that the Fuehrer wanted the German Army to do -- like aiding  in the Holocaust, taking hostages to deter partisan attacks on German soldiers and paramilitary, 

Quote:Hitler took command of the Wehrmacht in 1938 and replaced the War Ministry with the Supreme Command of the Armed Forces (Oberkommando der Wehrmacht), with Keitel as its chief.[13] As a result of his appointment, Keitel assumed the responsibilities of Germany's War Minister.[14] When after von Blomberg was asked by Hitler (out of respect for him, after his dismissal in 1938) who he would recommend to replace him he had not suggested anyone, and suggested that Hitler himself should take over the job. But he said to Hitler about Keitel (who was his son-in-law’s father) that "he's just the man who runs my office". Hitler snapped his fingers and exclaimed "That’s exactly the man I’m looking for". So on 4 February 1938 when Hitler became Commander-in-Chief of the Armed Forces, Keitel (to the astonishment of the General Staff, including himself) became Chief of Staff.[3]

Soon after his promotion, Keitel convinced Hitler to appoint Walther von Brauchitsch as Commander-in-Chief of the Army, replacing von Fritsch.[15] Keitel was promoted to Generaloberst (Colonel General) in November 1938.


Field Marshal Ewald von Kleist labelled Keitel nothing more than a "stupid follower of Hitler" because of his servile "yes man" attitude with regard to Hitler. His sycophancy was well known in the army, and he acquired the nickname 'Lakeitel', a pun derived from Lakai ("lackey") and his surname.[17]-18][18] Hermann Göring's description of Keitel as having "a sergeant's mind inside a field marshal's body" was a feeling often expressed by his peers. He had been promoted because of his willingness to function as Hitler's mouthpiece.[19] He was known by his peers as a "blindingly loyal toady" of Hitler, nicknamed "Lakeitel"; or "Nickgeselle", after a popular metal toy of a nodding donkey, the "Nickesel".[clarification needed] During the war he was subject to verbal abuse from Hitler, who said to other officers (according to Gerd von Rundstedt) that "you know he has the brains of a movie usher ... (but he was made the highest ranking officer in the Army) ... because the man’s as loyal as a dog" (said by Hitler with a sly smile).[20]

Keitel was predisposed to manipulation because of his limited intellect and nervous disposition; Hitler valued his hard work and obedience.[21] On one occasion, Burkhart Müller-Hillebrand [de] asked who Keitel was: upon finding out he became horrified at his own failure to salute his superior. Franz Halder, however, told him: "Don't worry, it's only Keitel".[21] German officers consistently bypassed him and went directly to Hitler.

On 30 August 1939, immediately prior to the outbreak of the Second World War, Keitel was appointed by Hitler to the six-person Council of Ministers for Defense of the Reich which was set up to operate as a "war cabinet".[23] After Germany defeated France in the Battle of France in six weeks, Keitel described Hitler as “the greatest warlord of all time”.[24] Keitel conducted the negotiations of the French armistice, and on 19 July 1940 was promoted to Generalfeldmarschall (Field Marshal).[16]


The planning for Operation Barbarossa, the 1941 invasion of the Soviet Union, was begun tentatively by Halder with the redeployment of the 18th Army into an offensive position against the Soviet Union.[25] On 31 July 1940, Hitler held a major conference that included Keitel, Halder, Alfred Jodl, Erich Raeder, Brauchitsch and Hans Jeschonnek which further discussed the invasion. The participants did not object to the invasion.[26] Hitler asked for war studies to be completed[27] and Georg Thomas was given the task of completing two studies on economic matters. The first study by Thomas detailed serious problems with fuelling and rubber supplies. Keitel bluntly dismissed the problems, telling Thomas that Hitler would not want to see it. This influenced Thomas' second study which offered a glowing recommendation for the invasion based upon fabricated economic benefits.[28]


In January 1943, just before the final surrender at Stalingrad, Hitler agreed to the creation of a three-man committee with representatives of the State, the Armed Forces High Command, and the Party in an attempt to centralize control of the war economy and over the home front. The committee members were Keitel, (Chief of OKW) Hans Lammers (Chief of the Reich Chancellery) and Martin Bormann (Chief of the Party Chancellery). The committee, soon known as the Dreierausschuß (Committee of Three), met eleven times between January and August 1943. However, it had little autonomy, with Hitler reserving most final decisions to himself. In addition, it ran up against resistance from cabinet ministers, who headed deeply entrenched spheres of influence and, seeing it as a threat to their power, worked together to undermine it. The result was that nothing changed, and the Committee declined into irrelevance.[29]


Keitel played an important role after the failed 20 July plot in 1944. He sat on the Army "court of honour" that handed over many officers who were involved, including Field Marshal Erwin von Witzleben, to Roland Freisler's notorious People's Court. Around 7,000 people were arrested, many of whom were tortured by the Gestapo, and around 5,000 were executed.[30]

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Keitel, signing the ratified surrender terms for the German Army in Berlin, 8/9 May 1945

In April and May 1945, during the [url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Berlin]Battle of Berlin, Keitel called for counterattacks to drive back the Soviet forces and relieve Berlin. However, there were insufficient German forces to carry out such counterattacks. After Hitler's suicide on 30 April, Keitel stayed on as a member of the short-lived Flensburg government under Grand Admiral Karl Dönitz. Upon arriving in Flensburg, Albert Speer, the Minister of Armaments and War Production, said that Keitel grovelled to Dönitz in the same way as he had done to Hitler. On 7 May 1945, Alfred Jodl, on behalf of Dönitz, signed Germany's unconditional surrender on all fronts. Joseph Stalin considered this an affront, so a second signing was arranged at the Berlin suburb of Karlshorst 8 May. There, Keitel signed the German surrender to the Soviet Union. Five days later he was arrested along with the rest of the Flensburg Government, at the request of the U.S.[31]


Keitel had full knowledge of the criminal nature of the planning and the subsequent Invasion of Poland, agreeing to its aims in principle.[32] The Nazi plans included mass arrests, population transfers and mass murder. Keitel did not contest the regime's assault upon basic human rights or counter the role of the Einsatzgruppen in the murders.[32] The criminal nature of the invasion was now obvious; local commanders continued to express shock and protest over the events they were witnessing.[33] Keitel continued to ignore the protests among the officer corps while they became morally numbed to the atrocities.[32]


Keitel issued a series of criminal orders from April 1941.[34] The orders went beyond established codes of conduct for the military and broadly allowed the execution of Jews, civilians and non-combatants for any reason. Those carrying out the murders were exempted from court-martial or later being tried for war crimes. The orders were signed by Keitel; however, other members of the OKW and the OKH, including Halder, wrote or changed the wording of his orders. Commanders in the field interpreted and carried out the orders.[35]


In the summer and autumn of 1941, German military lawyers unsuccessfully argued that Soviet prisoners of war should be treated in accordance with the Geneva Convention. Keitel rebuffed them, writing: "These doubts correspond to military ideas about wars of chivalry. Our job is to suppress a way of life."[36] In September 1941, concerned that some field commanders on the Eastern Front did not exhibit sufficient harshness in implementing the May 1941 order on the "Guidelines for the Conduct of the Troops in Russia", Keitel issued a new order, writing: "[The] struggle against Bolshevism demands ruthless and energetic action especially also against the Jews, the main carriers of Bolshevism".[37] Also in September, Keitel issued an order to all commanders, not just those in the occupied Soviet Union, instructing them to use "unusual severity" to stamp out resistance. In this context, the guideline stated that execution of 50 to 100 "Communists" was an appropriate response to a loss of a German soldier.[37] Such orders and directives further radicalised the army's occupational policies and enmeshed it in the genocide of the Jews.[38]



In December 1941, Hitler instructed the OKW to subject, with the exception of Denmark, Western Europe (which was under military occupation) to the Night and Fog Decree.[39] Signed by Keitel,[40] the decree made it possible for foreign nationals to be transferred to Germany for trial by special courts, or simply handed to the Gestapo for deportation to concentration camps. The OKW further imposed a blackout on any information concerning the fate of the accused. At the same time, Keitel increased pressure on Otto von Stülpnagel, the military commander in France, for a more ruthless reprisal policy in the country.[39] In October 1942, Keitel signed the Commando Order that authorized the killing of enemy special operations troops even when captured in uniform.[41]


In the spring and summer of 1942, as the deportations of the Jews to extermination camps progressed, the military initially protested when it came to the Jews that laboured for the benefit of the Wehrmacht. The army lost control over the matter when the SS assumed command of all Jewish forced labour in July 1942. Keitel formally endorsed the state of affairs in September, reiterating for the armed forces that "evacuation of the Jews must be carried out thoroughly and its consequences endured, despite any trouble it may cause over the next three or four months".[42]

Wikipedia article on Hitler's lackey Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel

Quote:I mean, it took some people with spine who didn't care about laws  to convince someone with no spine to break some election laws by changing election laws in key battle ground states to help Biden win.

All approved by the courts, and all in response to the dirtiest possible actor in the 2020 election, COVID-19, which would have made in-person voting unduly dangerous. There was a portent that Trump would be in deep trouble in 2020: the 2018 midterm elections that suggested that Trump would lose the national election if he did not clean up his act. A majority of the electorate in twenty states and a plurality in another voted for Democrats in House elections. Biden won twenty of those states, losing one of them and gaining one of the others (essentially exchanging Iowa for Georgia).  Another angle is that demographics suggested that unless Trump cut into the Democratic vote, a replacement of older voters who are about R+5 with younger voters who are about D+20, would cause the Democratic nominee to pick up at the least Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin.  That projection also allowed the Democrats to pick up Florida, which Trump somehow held -- only to lose Arizona, Georgia, and the Second Congressional District of Nebraska that he won the previous time.

I see it this way. Supposed that some militia appears at a polling place with placards that read "(insulting name for an ethnic or religious group) VOTE HERE AND DIE" and perhaps has the visual aid of a noose. The local police would tell such people to disperse or go to the pokey under arrest. People scared of COVID-19 were not going to vote. COVID-19 viruses cannot be arrested and taken to jail (or more fittingly, an incinerator for summary "execution") 

People have a right to vote, and in most cases such was possible by expanding the right to vote absentee.         

Quote:Oh, it also took some people with spine to fight with police and place their lives in harms way while destroying American monuments

Uh... CONFEDERATE, and not American.  Nobody had to fight with police. Local officials often removed those monuments peacefully. Much of the anti-police violence was from the Right, more specifically the Alt-Right.  A hint on those Confederate monuments: most of those were erected about fifty years after the Civil War, corresponding with the time in which the second Ku-Klux-Klan (which had many fascist traits before Mussolini or Hitler became fascists or Nazis) formed. The Second Klan formed in 1915, and it admired the Confederacy. The people who erected those monuments were not so much Confederate veterans as it was their grandchildren. That represents the Confederacy as Gone with the Wind presents.    

Quote:, police precincts and private property for months while being cheered on and supported by Democrats in higher office for several months which resulted in  a bunch of them having the shit scared out of them while at work by an angry Right Wing mob. I think it's pretty clear that Eizige isn't going to fight to enrich big tech or the uber rich or die for Biden either.

If you are talking about Black Lives Matter, it is about making life safer for blacks should they encounter the police. I want the police better trained, and I want them to make a distinction between the normal black people who want safety not only from the police but also the marauders in their midst. Black Lives Matter does not intend to make criminal justice any more lenient for violent offenders. As most of us recognize, police, criminal codes, criminal courts, and prisons exist for good reason. One of those is the deterrence  of mob violence, whether by lynching or with insurrections such as that of January 6.

Now if mobs do assault, looting, vandalism, or arson, then the criminal code defines the offense, the police can arrest the alleged offenders, the courts can try (and likely convict) the alleged offenders, and upon deeming offenders guilty sending those people off to prisons to serve terms of confinement. Evidence used in conviction can come from video cameras intended to document any police brutality that instead document the brutality and destructiveness of rioters.

[David Horn]

I'll respond in kind.

(02-16-2021, 11:40 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

1. What's wrong with you people these days? Why do so many of you rely on the spine of someone else and why are so many of you afraid of harm and being exposed to harm  these days? 
   
2. So, what do you think about the new strains of COVID that Biden doesn't seem care about entering the country along our southern border these days? 
   
3. Dude, if you're looking for people with spines who aren't criminals or crooks, you're not going to find them on the Left these days. I mean, it took some people with spine who didn't care about laws  to convince someone with no spine to break some election laws by changing election laws in key battle ground states to help Biden win. 
   
4. Oh, it also took some people with spine to fight with police and place their lives in harms way while destroying American monuments, police precincts and private property for months while being cheered on and supported by Democrats in higher office for several months which resulted in  a bunch of them having the shit scared out of them while at work by an angry Right Wing mob. 
   
5. I think it's pretty clear that Eizige isn't going to fight to enrich big tech or the uber rich or die for Biden either.
   

1. The spines needed are in the political sphere.  I'm not advocating for urban fistfights.
   
2. Uh, the source of most of the new strains is the excessively high infection rates here in the USA.  Viruses mutate effectively when they have ready access to hosts able to replicate the new strains.
   
3. Now this is gibberish, but, assuming you mean that the Dems cheated, how did that happen?  Most of the election officials in the affected states were Republicans and Trump supporters.
   
4. No one gave anyone on the left a handwave on violence during the BLM protests.  So far, the number of arrests is in the thousands, and roughly 1500 are being prosecuted. 
   
5. Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.
   

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-17-2021, 11:46 AM)David Horn Wrote: Einzige is a Marxist, so anything other than the Soviet model is out of bounds for him.

Nitpick. Einzige distinguishes between theoretical Marxism and Communism as it actually occurred. Very different. He has denounced the Soviet Model, but most people have rejected all violence, all boots on the ground. I would replace 'the Soviet model' with 'the Marxist model'.

But other than that, I would agree.