The Coronavirus

[Eric the Green]

(01-11-2022, 01:58 AM)TatteredGenX Wrote: Hi Eric. Thank you so much for your insights. 
LOVE your books. Hope you will write another one soon.
Thinking on how to phrase things, as I too look at life more with an astrological lens; albeit an amateur version. 
With that lens--but still keeping the turnings in firm mind--I keep looking at early this year (Pluto) and 2025/26. 

One thing I have not been able to glean--is the Pandemic aspect. It flew straight past me in April 2020 as well. I knew something was up, (every planet and their dog in conjunction in Cap), but would never have guessed. 
I keep up on international news quite a bit. Would love it if this pandemic--as horrible as it is--serves as the sole ramp-up to finish off this 4T. I grew up in Europe, firmly connected to WWII, and there are things brewing. It looks to me that something else may well have additional impact; Russia / China comes to mind, along with the large set of Eurasian countries which now have large authoritarian movements.

Thoughts on that?

Thanks for your thoughts and questions. I don't think we'll be out of the 4T until the cold civil war is at least settled enough so that one side gets to finally set policy. If it's the blue side, the 1T will proceed and the saeculum will continue. If the red side wins, I doubt we will enter a 1T and the saeculum may be over as we enter a dark age. I still prefer to think the pandemic will just be a feature of the middle of the 4T and end before the 4T does. But, who knows; it does seem to go on and on as we continue to be incompetent in dealing with it despite the scientific breakthroughs. I hope it doesn't end up like the Bubonic Plague. But if so, it will certainly seem like cycles are ending like in the medieval days and that it will play a role in our descent into total decline.

Quote:Agree completely about the division being the core issue driving this 4T, and on a global scale. I'm glad to see you think it will be 2029, rather than later. I know it is 8 years away--but it beats sitting in this situation until 2036. 

I keep looking at the years 500 through the 1700's for parallels to this pandemic. While there is zero reason for it to reach the magnitude of the Bubonic Plague--I wonder.  I know grand cycle wise we are not there (many many thanks for the spreadsheet), and I take great comfort from that, however 1 million infections per day coupled with massive climate change has me drawing connections to Krakatoa and the rats that caused the plague. I have not gone as far as looking at the saeculum and the turnings for that era yet.
Perhaps I 'enjoy' scaring myself, but not that much.

That said--you and Tarnas got me through 2020. By the time I started to understand, I felt much calmer. Looking at the BIG picture is good. 

I hope my original big picture predictions hold. It looks bad now, with voting rights reform defeated, and Biden and Democrats down in the polls, but things often look dark during a 4T and we have always found our way out of it. It doesn't mean all problems solved; just enough so that we can move ahead smoothly and follow through in the 1T and experience a new awakening in the 2T.

Quote:PS: 

Is there somewhere else on the internet you frequent, where I could ask you all the things that would be off-topic for this forum? 
I love the socio-political angle of the 4th Turning, the fact it was written by economists, and thoroughly enjoyed learning about the archetypes. It is a great book for sure. 

And I must confess--I devour Mundane Astrology books. 

If there isn't, that's fine too, I will just do my level best to stick tight to the archetypes and the saeculum. 

So nice to get to talk to you. 

EDIT: Full HTML edit anywhere? I "killed" the quotes.

This group here was pretty well set up, and unlike the previous version from years ago, this one has a forum that mentions astrology. You can see it in the list on the front page. You were probably already there. So astrology is cool here, although it is not respected by the majority of S&H fans in general.
http://generational-theory.com/forum/forum-19.html

Since I am the admin of the fourth turning discussion group on facebook, along with Steve and one other guy, it should be pretty open to astrology too.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/396877864887524

I mostly go to facebook. Here are 3 mundane astrology groups, all good:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/mundaneastrologers
https://www.facebook.com/groups/mundaneastro
https://www.facebook.com/groups/pro.world.astrologers

Steve posted a list here of other generations and 4T groups. I don't know which one to recommend though.
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thr...tpost.html

Thanks again and best wishes.

[pbrower2a]

[pbrower2a]

I have a contingent award for someone certain to die if he does not get inoculated. He needs a kidney transplant, and even such might not save him... but if he refuses the inoculation for COVID-19 he will not get the transplant, and he will die. It remains possible that he might change his mind and get the inoculation, he might get a transplant elsewhere on his own terms and survive, or that some miracle might happen. This is from WSOC-TV, ABC-9 in Charlotte, North Carolina.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/local/i-will...T24P5RED4/

By Dave Faherty, wsoctv.com

BURKE COUNTY, N.C. — A Burke County man’s decision not to receive the COVID-19 vaccine means he also won’t be getting a much-needed kidney transplant.

Chad Carswell, a double amputee who has undergone several major surgeries on his heart, now faces a different battle. Carswell told Channel 9′s Dave Faherty his kidney is only operating at about 4%.

Dialysis three times a week keeps him going, but the solution is temporary.

“Without (a kidney transplant) there’s no telling how much longer I’ll be here, I have to have a kidney to prolong my life,” he said.

Carswell said he has received all kinds of tests and scans from Atrium Health Wake Forest Baptist Hospital in Winston-Salem in hopes of getting a kidney transplant. Instead, Carswell learned that he and anyone who wanted to donate a kidney would be required to be vaccinated before the surgery.

He said friends and local businesses raised money to fund the transplant. More than 100 people, Carswell said, have offered to donate a kidney, but because of his vaccination status, that can’t happen.

Carswell said he won’t get the vaccine and he is willing to die over it.

“You will not change your mind?” Faherty asked.

“No sir, I was born free. I will die free. I’m not changing my mind,” Carswell said. “I’ve had conversations with my family and everybody who is close to me and they know where I stand and there will not be a situation that occurs where I’ll change my mind on this topic.”

He said doctors and nurses at the hospital spoke with him about getting the vaccine, but he believes it is a choice and he doesn’t believe someone should be forced to get one.

“That’s when I politely told him there’s nothing to talk about,” Carswell said. “It wasn’t up for debate, I wasn’t getting it. And he told me ‘You know you’ll die if you don’t get it,’ and I told him I’m willing to die.”

In a statement to Channel 9, the hospital said the policy is in place to provide protection for the patient, because transplant patients are at high risk for severe illness if they don’t have pre-existing immunity.

“Atrium Health Wake Forest Baptist’s policy follows the current standard of care in the United States, which is to vaccinate all patients on waiting lists or being evaluated for transplant,” the hospital said.

“We understand that some patients may not wish to be vaccinated,” the statement continued. “In this case, patients can opt to be evaluated at another transplant center.”

Carswell said he is looking at other hospitals in the Carolinas and beyond to see if they’ll perform the surgery.

[pbrower2a]

Coronavirus: Mayo Clinic fires 700 unvaccinated employees



January 05, 2022 at 9:58 am ESTBy Theresa Seiger, Cox Media Group National Content Desk
The Mayo Clinic has fired hundreds of its employees at hospitals nationwide for failing to meet a requirement to get vaccinated against COVID-19, according to WJAX-TV and multiple reports.

Officials confirmed the decision Tuesday to WCCO-TV. Employees had until Monday to get vaccinated.

In a statement obtained by the Star Tribune, Mayo Clinic officials noted that nearly 99% of its staff members got vaccinated or received medical or religious exemptions from the vaccination requirement. The clinic employs 73,000 people in Minnesota, Arizona, Florida and several other states.

While Mayo Clinic is saddened to lose valuable employees, we need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe,” the clinic said in the statement.
“Based on science and data, it’s clear that vaccination keeps people out of the hospital and saves lives. That’s true for everyone in our communities — and it’s especially true for the many patients with serious or complex diseases who seek care at Mayo Clinic each day.”

A spokesperson said that employees who were released Tuesday will be able to return to the clinic for future job postings if they get vaccinated, WJAX-TV reported.

>> Related: Coronavirus: Air Force discharges 27 for refusing to get COVID vaccine

Employers in several industries nationwide have required that their workforces get vaccinated against COVID-19 and fired employees who have refused. In October, NPR reported that workers who decline vaccinations make up a small fraction of overall employees. In September, North Carolina-based Novant Health fired nearly 200 of its more than 35,000 employees for failing to get vaccinated, according to WSOC-TV. In Washington, officials said more than 400 of the state’s 6,300 transportation workers left their jobs in October due to a vaccine mandate, KIRO-TV reported.

In November, the Biden administration announced vaccine mandates which were set to take effect this month, which would have required health care facilities which get federal funding and companies with 100 or more employees to have their workforces fully vaccinated. The mandates have been challenged in court, with the U.S. Supreme Court set to hear arguments over their validity on Friday, according to Reuters.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending/cor...WFF4JHA5M/


>> Related: Massachusetts hospital fires more than 200 for refusing COVID-19 vaccination

As of Tuesday morning, nearly 74% of the U.S. population – 244.9 million people – has gotten at least one dose of any of the available COVID-19 vaccines, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Just over 62% of Americans, or 206.5 million people, have been fully vaccinated, and almost 35% of those who have been fully vaccinated have gotten booster shots, CDC data shows.

Since the start of the pandemic, officials have reported 57 million cases of COVID-19 nationwide, resulting in more than 830,000 deaths, according to a tally from Johns Hopkins University. Globally, 295.4 million cases have been reported, resulting in 5.4 million deaths, according to the university.
©2022 Cox Media Group

[Eric the Green]

The Other 98%
De8c7eamnbge1r3 02e9g,aad 20121h ·

I refuse to put on winter tires because:
• It’s my car, my choice, my freedom.
• The effectiveness of winter tires is not proven, except by studies carried out by the manufacturers (like I’m supposed to trust them).
• My neighbor Bob had an accident even after putting on winter tires.
• Some drivers are already on their 3rd set of tires, which proves their ineffectiveness.
• We do not know what the tires are made of.
• The tire manufacturers scare us with winter just to enrich themselves.
• In fact, I read on the internet that the tire giants invented snow and spread it at night when you sleep.
• If I have winter tires, the government can track me in the snow.
Educate yourself, open your eyes, stop being sheep!
This year, I say no to winter tires!

[pbrower2a]

[Classic-Xer]

(01-30-2022, 07:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Coronavirus: Mayo Clinic fires 700 unvaccinated employees



January 05, 2022 at 9:58 am ESTBy Theresa Seiger, Cox Media Group National Content Desk
The Mayo Clinic has fired hundreds of its employees at hospitals nationwide for failing to meet a requirement to get vaccinated against COVID-19, according to WJAX-TV and multiple reports.

Officials confirmed the decision Tuesday to WCCO-TV. Employees had until Monday to get vaccinated.

In a statement obtained by the Star Tribune, Mayo Clinic officials noted that nearly 99% of its staff members got vaccinated or received medical or religious exemptions from the vaccination requirement. The clinic employs 73,000 people in Minnesota, Arizona, Florida and several other states.

While Mayo Clinic is saddened to lose valuable employees, we need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe,” the clinic said in the statement.
“Based on science and data, it’s clear that vaccination keeps people out of the hospital and saves lives. That’s true for everyone in our communities — and it’s especially true for the many patients with serious or complex diseases who seek care at Mayo Clinic each day.”

A spokesperson said that employees who were released Tuesday will be able to return to the clinic for future job postings if they get vaccinated, WJAX-TV reported.

>> Related: Coronavirus: Air Force discharges 27 for refusing to get COVID vaccine

Employers in several industries nationwide have required that their workforces get vaccinated against COVID-19 and fired employees who have refused. In October, NPR reported that workers who decline vaccinations make up a small fraction of overall employees. In September, North Carolina-based Novant Health fired nearly 200 of its more than 35,000 employees for failing to get vaccinated, according to WSOC-TV. In Washington, officials said more than 400 of the state’s 6,300 transportation workers left their jobs in October due to a vaccine mandate, KIRO-TV reported.

In November, the Biden administration announced vaccine mandates which were set to take effect this month, which would have required health care facilities which get federal funding and companies with 100 or more employees to have their workforces fully vaccinated. The mandates have been challenged in court, with the U.S. Supreme Court set to hear arguments over their validity on Friday, according to Reuters.

https://www.wsoctv.com/news/trending/cor...WFF4JHA5M/


>> Related: Massachusetts hospital fires more than 200 for refusing COVID-19 vaccination

As of Tuesday morning, nearly 74% of the U.S. population – 244.9 million people – has gotten at least one dose of any of the available COVID-19 vaccines, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Just over 62% of Americans, or 206.5 million people, have been fully vaccinated, and almost 35% of those who have been fully vaccinated have gotten booster shots, CDC data shows.

Since the start of the pandemic, officials have reported 57 million cases of COVID-19 nationwide, resulting in more than 830,000 deaths, according to a tally from Johns Hopkins University. Globally, 295.4 million cases have been reported, resulting in 5.4 million deaths, according to the university.
©2022 Cox Media Group

It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

[Classic-Xer]

(02-05-2022, 12:59 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

My best friends (brother by another mother) 94 year old father didn't care if it killed him, he was ready to move on anyways. I'm really going to miss him. He was one of the best men that I've known during my lifetime. I first met him when I was about nine years old.

[David Horn]

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-30-2022, 07:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Coronavirus: Mayo Clinic fires 700 unvaccinated employees

It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

[Bob Butler 54]

(02-05-2022, 09:30 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

I would state it another way.  The so called freedom front cares for their own freedom more than the health of the general public.  If Mayo's prime concern is with the health of the general public, why wouldn't they get rid of those who want the right to murder?

A crisis is a time to care for the welfare of the whole.  An unraveling is a time of selfishness.

[Eric the Green]

(02-05-2022, 11:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 09:30 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

I would state it another way.  The so called freedom front cares for their own freedom more than the health of the general public.  If Mayo's prime concern is with the health of the general public, why wouldn't they get rid of those who want the right to murder?

A crisis is a time to care for the welfare of the whole.  An unraveling is a time of selfishness.

Well stated, David and Bob.

[Classic-Xer]

David Horn

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-30-2022, 07:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Coronavirus: Mayo Clinic fires 700 unvaccinated employees

It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

Can you get sick from covid and spread it to others and possibly kill other despite being vaccinated? Can you die from covid despite being vaccinated? Yes you can just like me or anyone else at this point. Whatever superiority you thought you had or may have gained with being vaccinated no longer exists today. Like I said, I am amazed that so many people with college degrees are still bowing down and going along with the blue nonsense these days. I've always thought vaccinating healthy people and forcing healthy people to get vaccinated was unwarranted and a waste of time, money and resources. You seem to have a bit of a ruthless/careless side to you. That's good, I won't feel guilty when people eventually start blowing blue heads off and rounding up blues for deportation and so forth.

You don't want to hear this but if you do get covid and you most likely will since we're a couple of vaccines behind and nobody knows the specific characteristics or deadliness of the next covid variant, your chances of survival will be significantly less than mine since my body already gotten to know covid pretty well. Alpha didn't kill me. Beta didn't kill me or anyone that I know who got it at the time. BTW, I knew lots of people who got it at the time. Delta didn't kill me or anyone that I know ( vaccinated or non vaccinated) either. Omicron has claimed one so far. He was 94 years old and ready to pass on and preferred to die at home with loved ones by his side vs dying alone in a hospital bed.  Do you or any of the blue morons have a problem with him having the right to make that decision?

[Eric the Green]

(02-05-2022, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

Quote: David Horn

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

Can you get sick from covid and spread it to others and possibly kill other despite being vaccinated? Can you die from covid despite being vaccinated? Yes you can just like me or anyone else at this point. Whatever superiority you thought you had or may have gained with being vaccinated no longer exists today. Like I said, I am amazed that so many people with college degrees are still bowing down and going along with the blue nonsense these days. I've always thought vaccinating healthy people and forcing healthy people to get vaccinated was unwarranted and a waste of time, money and resources. You seem to have a bit of a ruthless/careless side to you. That's good, I won't feel guilty when people eventually start blowing blue heads off and rounding up blues for deportation and so forth.

You don't want to hear this but if you do get covid and you most likely will since we're a couple of vaccines behind and nobody knows the specific characteristics or deadliness of the next covid variant, your chances of survival will be significantly less than mine since my body already gotten to know covid pretty well. Alpha didn't kill me. Beta didn't kill me or anyone that I know who got it at the time. BTW, I knew lots of people who got it at the time. Delta didn't kill me or anyone that I know ( vaccinated or non vaccinated) either. Omicron has claimed one so far. He was 94 years old and ready to pass on and preferred to die at home with loved ones by his side vs dying alone in a hospital bed.  Do you or any of the blue morons have a problem with him having the right to make that decision?

Classic, you think medical science is based on a few people you know. It isn't. Science shows that natural immunity is weaker than vaccines. Yes the vaccines' effectiveness seems to wane over time, but those who got the booster are over 90 times less likely to die from covid than the unvaccinated. Those are facts, not based on people that I know.

There will be more covid19 variants as long as greedy drug companies have their way and are not required to supply mRNA vaccine patents to the world. Right now the world is starting to produce its own, but it has a long way to go. So our focus on the rich people of the world has come back to bite us, and likely will again; thanks to your pro-greed, pro-rich people philosophy, Classic Xer.

[Classic-Xer]

(02-05-2022, 11:08 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 09:30 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

I would state it another way.  The so called freedom front cares for their own freedom more than the health of the general public.  If Mayo's prime concern is with the health of the general public, why wouldn't they get rid of those who want the right to murder?

A crisis is a time to care for the welfare of the whole.  An unraveling is a time of selfishness.

What was the Biden Administration threatening to remove if the Mayo Clinic didn't comply with Biden's vaccine mandate? The answer is pretty simple, it's millions of dollars. So, what's the point of a vaccine mandate now that we are basically back to square one with Delta and Omicron? So which variant dealt the final blow that ended the life of Colin Powell, was it Delta or lingering Beta? Delta was the new rage/threat at the time, one can only assume his death was associated with Delta. I'm very certain that he was infected by someone with Delta who was fully vaccinated at the time. He was Collin Powell (A well known US Army general during the first Gulf War and a former Secretary of State) and not some average person on the street so to speak. So, I'm almost certain that everyone in his immediate circle (family, care givers and friends) were fully vaccinated.

As far as selfishness, you are selfish and you have been selfish for many years. It's been all about you, your beliefs, what you view as priorities priorities, Progressive Politics and advancing a Progressive agenda for many years. As far as I can tell, the American people, American lives, American jobs, American core values, American views, American rights, the American country itself and its future aren't as important to you and often not even taken into consideration. This isn't real life. This is the internet which is far cry from real life. You see, in real life, I can use all of my strengths and characteristics and whatever tools to confront someone like you. In other words, if you're a dick and act like dick, I'd be able treat to treat like the other dicks that I've dealt with during my life. As I've mentioned before, pistol whipping some dick in a wheel chair with a laptop who spends his time demonizing and demoralizing police ain't going to be a problem with me. It's a viable solution to an obvious problem "threat to society". You see, that's what it boils down to with me and most Americans these days. The country has already turned against you and it's just a matter of whether you're able to figure it out and accept it or not and continue to be dicks. On another note, I heard BLM is imploding and its leaders are mostly likely a group of crooks who recently transferred 16 million dollars to Canadian non profits they set up for themselves and also bought property for themselves in Canada too. I don't know if you are aware of it, I know the Democratic media tends to ignore/censor relevant information these days.

[Classic-Xer]

(02-05-2022, 06:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

Quote: David Horn

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

Can you get sick from covid and spread it to others and possibly kill other despite being vaccinated? Can you die from covid despite being vaccinated? Yes you can just like me or anyone else at this point. Whatever superiority you thought you had or may have gained with being vaccinated no longer exists today. Like I said, I am amazed that so many people with college degrees are still bowing down and going along with the blue nonsense these days. I've always thought vaccinating healthy people and forcing healthy people to get vaccinated was unwarranted and a waste of time, money and resources. You seem to have a bit of a ruthless/careless side to you. That's good, I won't feel guilty when people eventually start blowing blue heads off and rounding up blues for deportation and so forth.

You don't want to hear this but if you do get covid and you most likely will since we're a couple of vaccines behind and nobody knows the specific characteristics or deadliness of the next covid variant, your chances of survival will be significantly less than mine since my body already gotten to know covid pretty well. Alpha didn't kill me. Beta didn't kill me or anyone that I know who got it at the time. BTW, I knew lots of people who got it at the time. Delta didn't kill me or anyone that I know ( vaccinated or non vaccinated) either. Omicron has claimed one so far. He was 94 years old and ready to pass on and preferred to die at home with loved ones by his side vs dying alone in a hospital bed.  Do you or any of the blue morons have a problem with him having the right to make that decision?

Classic, you think medical science is based on a few people you know. It isn't. Science shows that natural immunity is weaker than vaccines. Yes the vaccines' effectiveness seems to wane over time, but those who got the booster are over 90 times less likely to die from covid than the unvaccinated. Those are facts, not based on people that I know.

There will be more covid19 variants as long as greedy drug companies have their way and are not required to supply mRNA vaccine patents to the world. Right now the world is starting to produce its own, but it has a long way to go. So our focus on the rich people of the world has come back to bite us, and likely will again; thanks to your pro-greed, pro-rich people philosophy, Classic Xer.

I've heard the opposite is true as usual. Medical science is based on the results of studies over time. Preliminary studies suggested natural immunity was about equal to the vaccines in preventing death. The large scale studies that followed (studies that took place over the coarse of last year) concluded that natural immunity and its overall effectiveness (prevention of sickness, spread and death) was far superior to that of the vaccines.

[David Horn]

(02-05-2022, 06:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: What was the Biden Administration threatening to remove if the Mayo Clinic didn't comply with Biden's vaccine mandate? The answer is pretty simple, it's millions of dollars.  So, what's the point of a vaccine mandate now that we are basically back to square one with Delta and Omicron? So which variant dealt the final blow that ended the life of Colin Powell, was it Delta or lingering Beta? Delta was the new rage/threat at the time, one can only assume his death was associated with Delta. I'm very certain that he was infected by someone with Delta who was fully vaccinated at the time. He was Collin Powell (A well-known US Army general during the first Gulf War and a former Secretary of State) and not some average person on the street so to speak. So, I'm almost certain that everyone in his immediate circle (family, care givers and friends) were fully vaccinated.

Lots of nonsense here, so I'll make a list:

1. The Mayo Clinic receives funding from Federal programs.  Most hospitals do.  Unlike 'most hospitals', the Mayo Clinic can get by just fine without any of it.
   
2. The point of a vaccine mandate -- a point that seems to get lost on everyone with your mindset -- is to dramatically lower the R value of the virus, so is dies out.  In other words, it's a communal goal based on a communal effort.
   By the way, it's working as intended where it's practiced; not here in the good old USA of course.
   
3. Vaccines are not 100% perfect.  That applies to all of them.  Powell, unfortunately, failed to get a booster when he was first eligible, and that alone may have cost him his life.
   
4. as an aside: anecdotes are not statistically relevant in any case.  You can always find an example that runs counter to the trend.
   

C-Xer Wrote:As far as selfishness, you are selfish and you have been selfish for many years. It's been all about you, your beliefs, what you view as priorities priorities, Progressive Politics and advancing a Progressive agenda for many years. As far as I can tell, the American people, American lives, American jobs, American core values, American views, American rights, the American country itself and its future aren't as important to you and often not even taken into consideration. This isn't real life. This is the internet which is far cry from real life. You see, in real life, I can use all of my strengths and characteristics and whatever tools to confront someone like you. In other words, if you're a dick and act like dick, I'd be able treat to treat like the other dicks that I've dealt with during my life. As I've mentioned before, pistol whipping some dick in a wheel chair with a laptop who spends his time demonizing and demoralizing police ain't going to be a problem with me. It's a viable solution to an obvious problem "threat to society". You see, that's what it boils down to with me and most Americans these days. The country has already turned against you and it's just a matter of whether you're able to figure  it out and accept it or not and continue to be dicks.  On another note, I heard BLM is imploding and its leaders are mostly likely a group of crooks who recently transferred 16 million dollars to Canadian non profits they set up for themselves and also bought property for themselves in Canada too. I don't know if you are aware of it, I know the Democratic media tends to ignore/censor relevant information these days.

Oh boo-hoo.  Let me send you a huge bucket of crocodile tears.  You seem to need them.  Here's a clue: the nation is not an aggregation of the self-serving.  At no time is a nation viable as a nation if the cohesion that binds us all together disappears entirely.  That's the definition of chaos.  Yet you claim the mantle of 'American'.  Amazing.

And let's be clear on one other thing: self-dealing by supposed leaders of BLM or any other group is immoral at the very least and quite likely illegal.  I have zero sympathy for that kind of behavior, especially when it takes from those least able to afford it -- like virtually every Evangelical Church in America.  Deceit isn't partisan.

[pbrower2a]

(02-05-2022, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: David Horn

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-30-2022, 07:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Coronavirus: Mayo Clinic fires 700 unvaccinated employees

It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.

You are welcome to see it as a business decision. This said, I don't want to see people work for me getting sick and dying because they refuse to take a safe and effective inoculation. I don't want my employees getting sick and contagious and infecting clients who are in the hospital for something not COVID-19, like cancer or heart trouble.

I'd love to compel people who do not take the inoculation for reasons other than religious conviction (they would have to be members of some denomination that precludes such an inoculation) or medical reasons to buy medical insurance and funeral insurance to cover the costs of likely medical care and a funeral in the event that the worst happens. I would be on the side of insurance companies on this. People who take undue risks pay higher premiums for life insurance that pays upon death. Current or former coal miner? Your medical insurance will cost more. Current smoker or heavy drinker? Likewise. If you keep a cocker spaniel as a pet you may pay no added premium for liability. Keep a tiger? Th at is very different.   

Quote:If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

OK about driving a car without brakes. I would suggest that you seek the advice of a genuine doctor about getting inoculated. Not taking the vaccine is the worst sort of gamble possible: one with high risks of severe losses but with a tiny reward.

Quote:Can you get sick from covid and spread it to others and possibly kill other despite being vaccinated? Can you die from covid despite being vaccinated? Yes you can just like me or anyone else at this point. Whatever superiority you thought you had or may have gained with being vaccinated no longer exists today. Like I said, I am amazed that so many people with college degrees are still bowing down and going along with the blue nonsense these days. I've always thought vaccinating healthy people and forcing healthy people to get vaccinated was unwarranted and a waste of time, money and resources. You seem to have a bit of a ruthless/careless side to you. That's good, I won't feel guilty when people eventually start blowing blue heads off and rounding up blues for deportation and so forth.

The statistics are clear: vaccinated people who get infected endure far less risk of death and serious consequences of COVID-19, and are much less likely to spread COVID-19 because the infection dies.

As for college degrees and nonsense -- there are wayward professors, but the most dangerous ignorance comes from under-educated people. 

And, yes, good drivers must buy insurance for them to drive a car lawfully. Everybody makes mistakes, and those who make fewer mistakes as drivers get into fewer accidents and those of lesser severity. I did defensive driving last week and someone who cut in front of me because I was braking ended up crashing into a UPS van. I completed my stop and was able to report the incident to local police. 

You can trust me: should the Red side go full-bore totalitarian it will start going after people who waver on some issue or another. You live in Minnesota, a comparatively Blue state, and you will know people who get sent off to execution or worse. You will miss us. We on the Blue side have some principles. We would not tolerate such stuff by ourselves. 

Quote:You don't want to hear this but if you do get covid and you most likely will since we're a couple of vaccines behind and nobody knows the specific characteristics or deadliness of the next covid variant, your chances of survival will be significantly less than mine since my body already gotten to know covid pretty well. Alpha didn't kill me. Beta didn't kill me or anyone that I know who got it at the time. BTW, I knew lots of people who got it at the time. Delta didn't kill me or anyone that I know ( vaccinated or non vaccinated) either. Omicron has claimed one so far. He was 94 years old and ready to pass on and preferred to die at home with loved ones by his side vs dying alone in a hospital bed.  Do you or any of the blue morons have a problem with him having the right to make that decision?

That is not how it works. I have been exposed to a safe copy of the virus. I got a bunch of nasty side effects that showed some indication of what I could expect with COVID-19... like chest pains. Anybody my age is a candidate for a heart attack. COVID might have killed me. In my county a 28-year-old man who did genuine labor died of COVID-19. 

COVID-19 is not one of those things to which you can say that if it doesn't kill you it makes you stronger. No, it makes life worse. 

Anyone 94 years old is living on borrowed time. 

The risks of COVID-19 are just too high for me and the rewards are just too low for avoiding inoculation. Yes, I think that gambling at slot machines is a bad bet, but that makes far more sense than does risking death or serious consequences from COVID-19.

[pbrower2a]

By David Leonhardt
Good morning. We have an update on the “red Covid” story.





Barnegat Light, N.J.Karsten Moran for The New York Times
Still growing, more slowly
Ocean County, in central New Jersey, is a mixture of beach towns like Barnegat Light and exurban towns like Toms River and Lakewood. Household income in the county exceeds the U.S. average.
Yet Ocean County is among the least vaccinated places in the Northeast. Only 53 percent of residents have received at least two doses of a Covid-19 vaccine (or one dose of Johnson & Johnson). Only 26 percent have received a booster shot.
The large number of unvaccinated residents in Ocean County has led to a horrific amount of Covid illness and death. Nearly one out of every 200 residents has died from the virus. That is worse than the toll in Mississippi, the U.S. state with the largest amount of Covid death per capita, and worse than in any country except for Peru.
What explains the vaccine skepticism in Ocean County? Politics, above all. The county is heavily Republican. Donald Trump won it by almost 30 percentage points in 2020, and many Republicans — including those who are older than 65 and vulnerable to severe Covid illness — are skeptical of the vaccines.
This partisan divide has led to the “red Covid” phenomenon that I have described in previous newsletters. Today, I have an update.
Blue, then red
First, some background: In the pandemic’s initial months, Covid cases and deaths were higher in Democratic areas, probably because they are home to several major international airports. The virus entered this country on the West Coast and in the Northeast. But it didn’t stay there. By the end of Covid’s first year in the U.S., the virus had swept across the country, and there was no significant partisan divide in deaths.
Only after the vaccines became widely available, in early 2021 — and liberals were much more willing to get shots than conservatives — did Covid become a disproportionately Republican illness. By the summer of 2021, the gap was soaring:




Data as of Feb. 13. | Source: New York Times database; Edison Research
As the chart makes clear, the toll has been even worse in counties where Trump won by a landslide than in counties that he won narrowly.
This phenomenon is an example of how the country’s political polarization has warped people’s thinking, even when their personal safety is at stake. It is a tragedy — and a preventable one, too.
A new study by four Harvard epidemiologists estimates that 135,000 unvaccinated Americans died unnecessarily in the last six months of last year. The Texas Tribune recently profiled a young unvaccinated couple: She spent 139 days in intensive care; he asked, “Was this my fault?” They have both since been vaccinated.
Natural immunity
There is one big new development. When I last wrote about red Covid, in November, I told you that the month-to-month partisan mortality gap might be peaking, for two main reasons.
One, the availability of highly effective post-infection treatments, like Pfizer’s Paxlovid, has been expanding; if they reduce deaths, the drop may be steepest where the toll is highest. Two, red America has probably built up more natural immunity to Covid — from prior infections — than blue America, given that many Democrats have tried harder to avoid getting the virus.
Sure enough, the partisan gap in Covid deaths is no longer growing as fast it had been, as you can see from the new closeness among these lines:



In Trump and Biden counties, one candidate won at least 70 percent of the vote; in swing counties, both won at least 45 percent.

During the Omicron wave, deaths have risen less in red counties than in blue or purple counties. The most likely explanation seems to be that the number of Trump voters vulnerable to severe illness — which was still very large earlier last year — has declined, because more of them have built up some immunity to Covid from a previous infection.
But don’t make the mistake of confusing a gap that’s no longer growing as rapidly as it was with a gap that is shrinking. The gap between red and blue America — in terms of cumulative Covid deaths — is still growing. The red line in that second chart is higher than the blue line, which is a sign that more Republicans than Democrats or independents have needlessly died of Covid in recent weeks.
Another point to remember: Even in deeply blue counties, an outsize number of deaths are occurring among people who are unvaccinated or unboosted. The vaccines offer incredible protection from a deadly virus, yet many Americans have chosen to leave themselves exposed.
Related: Vaccinating and boosting more elderly people is probably the single best strategy for reducing deaths, The Atlantic’s Sarah Zhang writes. One way to do so: Increase Medicare payments to doctors and hospitals that make progress.
Virus developments:

• California laid out a plan to treat Covid as a manageable risk that “will remain with us for some time, if not forever.”
  
  
• This moment feels particularly hard for immunocompromised people. “It’s like living behind a veil.”
  

February 18, 2022

Note: the NYT does not put COVID-19 coverage behind a

[pbrower2a]

Now for the political effects:

COVID-19 deaths hurt Democrats in the 2020 election. They won the Presidency, kept the House, and made two gains in the Senate despite COVID-19. The plague hit urban areas early and hard. After that, subsequent elections will be done with a heavier shadow in Trump-supporting areas than elsewhere.

Dead people either do not vote, or their ballots are set aside should someone vote early and subsequently die before Election Day.

[Eric the Green]

(02-05-2022, 11:43 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 06:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(02-05-2022, 04:42 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

Quote: David Horn

(02-05-2022, 03:46 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: It was a business decision. Hospitals need revenues to function and noncompliance would result in a major loss of revenues. So, are they going to fire vaccinated employees and refuse vaccinated patients and prohibit vaccinated visitors who can get sick and spread covid too? They should if they need to take all steps necessary to keep our patients, workforce, visitors and communities safe. It's hard to believe that so many people with college degrees are going along with nonsense. You know that vaccinated patients and visitors and vaccinated employees can get sick and spread covid too right. Everyone pretty much knows that's the truth these days but the Biden Administration and a bunch of libtards. I assume that Biden doesn't care about the truth at this point. On another note, I've been directly exposed to more people with covid (all of them vaccinated people who were sick for multiple days) the last three months than I have the last two years and I haven't got sick with covid yet. Is it luck or is it natural immunity? I've tested negative two times a week for several weeks.

Once again, you read the wrong lesson from a good choice by Mayo Clinic.  The Clinic wasn't worried about their business model -- at least not nearly as much as it worried about its mission.  You can't run a medical practice if that practice allows the staff to sicken each other and, more to the point, the clinic's patients.  While i might favor separating the unvaccinated patients from the vaccinated -- even charging the unvaccinated more for care -- Mayo isn't doing that, nor are any other medical practices I know of.  

If you drove your car with no brakes, and did it intentionally, the legal system would come down hard on you when you finally had an accident -- as they should.  COVID is no different, yet the medical profession continues to hold out a helping hand and bear a burden imposed on them on purpose by the 'freedom front'.

Can you get sick from covid and spread it to others and possibly kill other despite being vaccinated? Can you die from covid despite being vaccinated? Yes you can just like me or anyone else at this point. Whatever superiority you thought you had or may have gained with being vaccinated no longer exists today. Like I said, I am amazed that so many people with college degrees are still bowing down and going along with the blue nonsense these days. I've always thought vaccinating healthy people and forcing healthy people to get vaccinated was unwarranted and a waste of time, money and resources. You seem to have a bit of a ruthless/careless side to you. That's good, I won't feel guilty when people eventually start blowing blue heads off and rounding up blues for deportation and so forth.

You don't want to hear this but if you do get covid and you most likely will since we're a couple of vaccines behind and nobody knows the specific characteristics or deadliness of the next covid variant, your chances of survival will be significantly less than mine since my body already gotten to know covid pretty well. Alpha didn't kill me. Beta didn't kill me or anyone that I know who got it at the time. BTW, I knew lots of people who got it at the time. Delta didn't kill me or anyone that I know ( vaccinated or non vaccinated) either. Omicron has claimed one so far. He was 94 years old and ready to pass on and preferred to die at home with loved ones by his side vs dying alone in a hospital bed.  Do you or any of the blue morons have a problem with him having the right to make that decision?

Classic, you think medical science is based on a few people you know. It isn't. Science shows that natural immunity is weaker than vaccines. Yes the vaccines' effectiveness seems to wane over time, but those who got the booster are over 90 times less likely to die from covid than the unvaccinated. Those are facts, not based on people that I know.

There will be more covid19 variants as long as greedy drug companies have their way and are not required to supply mRNA vaccine patents to the world. Right now the world is starting to produce its own, but it has a long way to go. So our focus on the rich people of the world has come back to bite us, and likely will again; thanks to your pro-greed, pro-rich people philosophy, Classic Xer.

I've heard the opposite is true as usual. Medical science is based on the results of studies over time. Preliminary studies suggested natural immunity was about equal to the vaccines in preventing death. The large scale studies that followed (studies that took place over the coarse of last year) concluded that natural immunity and its overall effectiveness (prevention of sickness, spread and death) was far superior to that of the vaccines.

Your side is determined to believe what it wants. Your comments here are totally opposite the truth, and you have no sources of fact to back up your claims. This goes not only for many right-wing trumpists like you, but some of my friends on the Left too who hate Democrats because they don't get everything they want from them, or may be addicted to belief in natural and alternative medicine to the exclusion of medical science, or both.