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Please Just Don't Change?
#1
*This essay format exists in the "Political Discussion" because no other place here seems appropriate.

This forum is within the context of 4 Turnings, a Saeculum, etc.  Where, we know patterns are happening.

Linear Time is not something that fits well here.  But, that's another story.  The point being, we - here - should at least comprehend we exist now in a  Turning

Crisis.

Really, it doesn't need much more explanation.  Tumult and waves of seemed chaos.  Now, cloistered in our homes or whatever with Corona.  The wrong Corona.  But we should know, all of this, too, will pass.  4th Turning is shocking to ppl who don't know what's happening.  Everything from before is passing away.  Things must and will change.

Anakin Skywalker: "I don't want things to change, mom."
Shmi Skywalker: "But Anni, you can't stop the change."

Very simple.  I would assess much of what is happening to throngs of folks who recognize and openly will even shout things must change.  But, it seems they don't like the "face" of what is on the other side of that change. 

We cannot control how things change in a 4th Turning.  It is massive, structural, and according to Strauss and Howe, there MUST be even a crumbling and collapse for the new to begin. 

They liken it to winter with leaves falling from a tree, you cannot then say we do not want the tree, go cut it down for it offends me.  Impossible.

The "face" of the other side of a transformative 4th Turning.  What is mostly holding it back?  Blatantly, it just seems clear if we must abide by political ideology, and gather ppl up into two herds.................................

Herd A wants change.  They want to invest in moving forward.  They have vision for what they want to happen and a desire to implement it.

No matter what you think of this ^^ above, it is a desire to move forward, that's why there's a term "Progressive".  Anyone can say they don't like what that agenda for Progression IS......... but the fundamental principle of the future, how to solve emerging issues, managing how America continues............. IT IS PRESENT.

Herd B seems only concerned with collaring Herd A.  It seems they have no agenda of their own EXCEPT to lasso restrictions and hold back Herd A. 

No matter what you think of this ^^ above, it does not work in the context of a 4th Turning.  In a 4th Turning, we cannot remain in rooms for decades and millennia deciding which billion dollars funds which plan to address which issue.  There is no plan, desire, or momentum to move forward.

Breaking it down further, the crux of this described is Herd B constituents not wanting to look at a tree with the leaves fallen off, and demanding it be chopped down.  Not understanding it will sprout again in Spring. 

However, Herd B sort of believes when the tree sprouts again, it's going to be some offensive and odorous thing that will frighten them, and they must hold onto the dead leaves of the tree and they fear what will happen if they don't cut the tree down.

Can this even work inside of a Generational/Cyclical model LIKE the forum where we are now interacting?  If we don't change our minds, can we allow the change to happen?  It MUST happen.  We can't control what it will look like on the other side.

Not in a Crisis period.

There is great anger in America at those in charge who are not doing anything.  It seems now, Herd A and Herd B are somewhat united in that one thing: anger.  Anger because things are not changing.

Herd B is in the crowd, holding their candlelight vigil in one hand and dead leaves in another.
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#2
Some things will change because their constituencies die off.

I think of a restaurant chain in the Midwest that has a farmhouse motif. The chain evokes a nostalgia for farm life even down to the menu. Its appeal was largely to the Silent, who loved their culinary experiences bland and even hokey. It offers lots of egg-based dishes... Never mind that these restaurants are typically off the exits of Interstate highways in places that might have been rural to the extent of being honest-to-God farms complete with windmills, chicken coops, a milk  barn, a water tank, and a grain field... it might not quite have been paradise, but they certainly paved it and put up a parking lot.





Except for science fiction and (more so) blatant drivel popular for all the wrong reasons, little ages faster than nostalgia. Unless the objects of nostalgia really are good the age groups that fall for it leave the commercial market due to death and debility and are not replaced. The constituency disappears, and so does the market.

OK, I can imagine people wanting to "go back to the farm" when over-stressed in the Big City... but I can hardly imagine anyone who knew farm life to want to have a milk pail on his arm. The rooster that wakes you up at 4 AM is something that you might want to strangle, especially on a chilly winter morning when you are nice and warm in bed. Maybe the people are less dissimilar than those in New York City in 1914. I assume that Irving Berlin spent rather little time in Michigan -- OK, maybe he got the irony well, and of course "wish again" and "Michigan" rhyme.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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#3
(I am trying to experiment with capitalizing keywords to separate them from plain language common use of the word. I do not know how it will go.)

(03-12-2020, 05:18 PM)TheNomad Wrote: Herd B seems only concerned with collaring Herd A.  It seems they have no agenda of their own EXCEPT to lasso restrictions and hold back Herd A. 

No matter what you think of this ^^ above, it does not work in the context of a 4th Turning.  In a 4th Turning, we cannot remain in rooms for decades and millennia deciding which billion dollars funds which plan to address which issue.  There is no plan, desire, or momentum to move forward.

Breaking it down further, the crux of this described is Herd B constituents not wanting to look at a tree with the leaves fallen off, and demanding it be chopped down.  Not understanding it will sprout again in Spring. 

However, Herd B sort of believes when the tree sprouts again, it's going to be some offensive and odorous thing that will frighten them, and they must hold onto the dead leaves of the tree and they fear what will happen if they don't cut the tree down.

Can this even work inside of a Generational/Cyclical model LIKE the forum where we are now interacting?  If we don't change our minds, can we allow the change to happen?  It MUST happen.  We can't control what it will look like on the other side.

Not in a Crisis period.

There is great anger in America at those in charge who are not doing anything.  It seems now, Herd A and Herd B are somewhat united in that one thing: anger.  Anger because things are not changing.

Herd B is in the crowd, holding their candlelight vigil in one hand and dead leaves in another.

To a great degree you are only making up your own buzz words and not using standard language. Thus, the thread is going nowhere.

I do see the red having their own motivations, but, yes, to hold back and do damage to various groups is a good part of it.

For example, the racists wish to hold back the blacks. Or do they want to save money and have a small efficient government?

Or the elitists want to profit, so they send jobs abroad where the labor has no unions and benefits. Thus they hold back the working man?

There is a lot of double speak. You wind up seeing people overtly stating they want something noble, while at least some people are actually hiding something that holds back many and benefits themselves.

Of course I look at those holding others back dubiously.

What may be happening is that in a Crisis era, we are predisposed to handle the greatest flaw in a society. As a result, each Crisis gets rid of a smaller problem than the one before until the chance of a Trigger event causing a Regeneracy is small.

Part of it is Trigger events are getting smaller. With nukes, we are less likely to start a war of aggression against a power that is more or less our equal. That would be MAD. That would diminish the elites power greatly, not give a chance to increase it. The Crisis War which was very common in the Industrial Age is correspondingly rare in the Information Age.

Part of it may be that the transforming era is the Awakening, not the Crisis. S&H fans are expecting change to occur in the Crisis by war, but in the Information Age it comes through the legislature during the Awakening. If so, it is not surprising to see us pass through a Crisis period and generational alignment without anything happening. In the Information Age, things happen in an Awakening. This could scramble both the Generations and the Turnings.

But the notion of many made fearful of the trauma and change of an Awakening holding vigil to prevent anything so disruptive to their beliefs from happening again is real. Using your analogy, I could see enough people removing dormant branches to kill the tree. The story of killing the golden goose also comes to mind.
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