Californians on Beaches and Trails Called DEFIANT!

[TheNomad]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/23/us/califo...index.html

Begins...

(CNN)Crowds descended on California beaches, hiking trails and parks over the weekend in open defiance of a state order to shelter in place and avoid close contact with others.

California Gov. Gavin Newsom issued a shelter in place order directing the state's nearly 40 million residents to stay home beginning March 20 to help stop the spread of coronavirus.

Now parks and beaches are being closed.  We shall not park in public places.  And "that doesn't mean gather elsewhere, that means go home."

It's an impossibility and won't happen.  They are going to have to lock up a million people.  And where will they put us?  They don't want us to be seen being at the beach in the sea air.  It's probably one of the safest places to be. 

This is being very mischaracterized.  In the article, it shows images that make Californians look like Floridians but it's not true.  People here who live this way are not gathered on top of each other on the back of a boat or laying in clumps.  WHAT I SEE PERSONALLY AND I AM HERE is this:

FAMILIES gathered together at reasonable outside distances from each other.  I saw HORDES of people out on Sunday, sure walking past each other as you must, not in a 6t bubble, no.  But milling around at reasonable distances.

No F'ing California will be trapped inside a structure when we have always lived this way.  Walking, bicycling, running.  Being with their families.

I AM REPORTING PERSONALLY.  Do not believe what you hear on the news.  I AM HERE I SEE IT.

I saw so many people out working in their gardens like I've never seen in all neighborhoods.  Ppl walking through the neighborhoods with their loved ones.  I saw some ppl walking together at a space of 6ft.  The groups kept REASONABLE HUMAN DISTANCE for something like this.

Californians are not going to huddle inside.  If you, the reader, feels we are propagating the plague, feel free to feel that.  There is no better place than fresh air for this.  None.  Barricaded inside where the virus might creep and accumulate, frak that.  It's on an Amazon box you had to order due to lack of product, and the box comes and it kills everyone inside.

We are ALL are great risk if this what they say.  Nothing can stop it.  In the meantime, no one HERE is going to listen to this.  And when they come for us, it will be wonderful to know what cruise ship they will send us to for refusing to isolate according to their standard.  Not everywhere is the same.  If you are in the humid swamp of Arkansas, everyone already has it and is passing it daily while simply going to and from Walmart.

Die with your mask off.

[Blazkovitz]

In Italy people lend dogs to each other, to be allowed to go out for a walk. But America is not Italy with its collectivistic Catholic and Fascist tradition. Americans were outdoorsy individualists from the beginning, and that's wonderful. Coronavirus cannot kill the American spirit of freedom.

[Eric the Green]

Going outside is still permitted here in CA as I understand it, but distance should be kept and gatherings avoided. I saw the reports. The films showed some people getting too close. That should not be allowed right now. We need to learn to act for the benefit of society now. That as I see it means observing social distance now. If we do this the virus could abate in a month or two as it did in Korea and China. If we don't do this now, normal life may be gone forever.

[TheNomad]

(03-23-2020, 04:42 AM)Blazkovitz Wrote: In Italy people lend dogs to each other, to be allowed to go out for a walk. But America is not Italy with its collectivistic Catholic and Fascist tradition. Americans were outdoorsy individualists from the beginning, and that's wonderful. Coronavirus cannot kill the American spirit of freedom.

[Bob Butler 54]

(03-23-2020, 05:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Going outside is still permitted here in CA as I understand it, but distance should be kept and gatherings avoided. I saw the reports. The films showed some people getting too close. That should not be allowed right now. We need to learn to act for the benefit of society now. That as I see it means observing social distance now. If we do this the virus could abate in a month or two as it did in Korea and China. If we don't do this now, normal life may be gone forever.

At the very least, the less seriously everyone takes the precautions, the longer the precautions have to stay in place.  Those fighting the precautions are not only killing people, but are perpetuating the inconvenience of people generally, not to mention the economic situation being made worse.

[David Horn]

(03-23-2020, 04:42 AM)Blazkovitz Wrote: In Italy people lend dogs to each other, to be allowed to go out for a walk. But America is not Italy with its collectivistic Catholic and Fascist tradition. Americans were outdoorsy individualists from the beginning, and that's wonderful. Coronavirus cannot kill the American spirit of freedom.

No, just the oblivious Americans who think they have a right to do anything they wish.

[Bob Butler 54]

This is what is meant by a mood to do what is best for everybody rather than what is best for the individual. With the Trigger and Regeneracy, things change. Mostly. Some obviously are acting like things are still pre trigger.

[TheNomad]

(03-23-2020, 11:36 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(03-23-2020, 04:42 AM)Blazkovitz Wrote: In Italy people lend dogs to each other, to be allowed to go out for a walk. But America is not Italy with its collectivistic Catholic and Fascist tradition. Americans were outdoorsy individualists from the beginning, and that's wonderful. Coronavirus cannot kill the American spirit of freedom.

No, just the oblivious Americans who think they have a right to do anything they wish.

Please take a second and think about what you wrote here.  The freedom to do anything they wish.  A revolutionary war was waged for freedom.  For which freedom(s)?  I think it would be classified as "whatever the f we want".

I believe in such freedoms, there is still a part of me that's rebellious and will do anything to go against the "law".  Americans will never be told what to do on such a level as this.  That is what makes us different from the rest of the world, I am proud of that.

You aren't proud of a little 'defiance'?

You wanna die in the confines of cloistered fear?

That's about as unAmerican as I can think of.

[Bob Butler 54]

Nomad...

The cycles go around.  This is the time when individuals are most likely expected to sacrifice for the group.  Someone who is a supposed to have read S&H and is in agreement with the basic concepts ought to understand.  We have done this for three Crises now, going on into the fourth.  It is not new.  It is the wheel turning.

I remember hearing tales of my father's uncle Eugene.  Around the time of Pearl Harbor he had a solid job building ships at the Quincy Shipyard, and his job was declared essential to the war effort.  This is about when the German submarines had what they called the happy time.  Ship building was seen as important.  He wanted to join the military anyway.  The army said no.  The navy said no.  The coast guard said no.  No matter how many times the government tried to keep him on the job, he tried to do more.

Moral of story?  Try the merchant marine.  They are not a government agency, and look up less bookwork, but he saw it as one way to do his duty.  Let Rosie T Riveter build ships.

The social pressure and the duty for a man to do his part was something my father didn't try to explain to a young kid wearing bell bottom dungarees during the Vietnam war.  If you don't feel it, I can't explain it either.  But for sure, after the Trigger, the results can be seen by those who dare to call themselves American.

[TheNomad]

I've got a general mentality, and then I have what I DO. As a much younger person, I can imagine myself going out trying to provoke something to see how far I could push my individual liberty. Archetype change as they age. I don't do things like that anymore.

But for the concepts of handing away rights and freedoms? I've got a part of me still tuned into Art Bell and early Alex Jones before he became Rush Limbaugh's twin brother in the sci-fi areas. Alex used to be pretty hot in reporting things in the periphery. Such as, this virus is just a bad cold, and the government is going to use it to obtain yet more power. With every Crisis, there has been a vast expansion of 'higher power'. It certainly happened in the last Crisis. Everything we think of as modern in America came from then... in terms of the Collective. Where, the Personal came later with Awakening, of course.

I'm not a person that is loving this situation. Not just because I feel interruption of MY life and those I care about, but because I inherently despise being told what to do. I'll admit that. Yet, it comes from my youth in the raw rebellion against powers of any kind. I don't like them nor the idea of anyone in 'office' telling people on the ground how to live. And I've a long-standing hate for ever-encroaching authorities who say they are doing good but just becoming personally wealthy through influence.

You say sacrifice. You anecdoted the story of the man who wanted to DO something when told not to. He was trying to do something... and action... to assist. He was being told exactly what to do but didn't want to do that? Wanted something else instead? We are being told to sacrifice by NOT doing something. By not doing ANYTHING.

There was an article today, someone blasted "this is not a WAR, far from it." Which is true. No one believes they are battling anything. There is no war. By the narrative here, many of us will die................................. OR WE WON'T. There is no real or true diagram of any of it.

We are being told, stay inside of you and/or others will die.

We need to really think about that for a moment instead of knee-jerking.

I go out every day, I get a coffee and since this, I've been driving around observing. Going to the store when I need something. Definitely exercising outside without fear. I am being told by others "you go out too much" and "you are putting others at risk" and "why do you want to spread the virus".

Part of me feels this is what, in youth, I would have reared my head up and thought the world mad. Never have I seen the WORLD on lockdown. The entirety.

We have not known or understood ANYTHING about what's going on except it's SO serious, most of us either will die or we won't. And when we don't, we will be adulated and praised for being "good" citizens who "sacrificed" for the greater good. When most of us do not die, we will collectively drink that libation unto ourselves in congratulations, not realizing or even caring what we gave up in the meantime.

I don't partake, really, of the good "conspiracy" idea at my age, conspiracy simple meaning a questioning, but part of me is still there. Part of me would rather see a complete decimation since the planet is overrun with populace anyway and is dying because of it. We ARE killing the planet and it's only a matter of time before it's dead and so are we as we know it.

THAT'S PART OF ME.

The other part is doing what is necessary and trying to get past this. I'm no Millennial sneezing on bananas in youtube. I'm also not an old man in the house calling all my family members daily waiting for the shoe to drop. I am never going to live that way. We are all informed by our experiences.


*** I must add

Since understanding the Saeculum, I know this isn't the end, AN end, only a turning. I expected it, no one knows what it will look like, it will pass, and we'll see what comes next. I know and accept it must happen. We don't know what events of circumstances cause it, sometimes we only know after the fact. That has helped me deal with this situation. It's also helped me to get perspective, if I don't allow myself to be too distracted, I will catch nuances of things like abuse of liberties and rights as power is grabbed.

[pbrower2a]

Going out on a trail or to a secluded beach sounds like a way to get away a safe distance from others. Of course I would love to go out and see nature...

[Eric the Green]

(03-23-2020, 04:00 PM)TheNomad Wrote: ... this virus is just a bad cold, and the government is going to use it to obtain yet more power. With every Crisis, there has been a vast expansion of 'higher power'. It certainly happened in the last Crisis. Everything we think of as modern in America came from then... in terms of the Collective. Where, the Personal came later with Awakening, of course.

I'm not a person that is loving this situation. Not just because I feel interruption of MY life and those I care about, but because I inherently despise being told what to do. I'll admit that. Yet, it comes from my youth in the raw rebellion against powers of any kind. I don't like them nor the idea of anyone in 'office' telling people on the ground how to live. And I've a long-standing hate for ever-encroaching authorities who say they are doing good but just becoming personally wealthy through influence.

You say sacrifice. You anecdoted the story of the man who wanted to DO something when told not to. He was trying to do something... and action... to assist. He was being told exactly what to do but didn't want to do that? Wanted something else instead? We are being told to sacrifice by NOT doing something. By not doing ANYTHING.

There was an article today, someone blasted "this is not a WAR, far from it." Which is true. No one believes they are battling anything. There is no war. By the narrative here, many of us will die................................. OR WE WON'T. There is no real or true diagram of any of it.

We are being told, stay inside of you and/or others will die.

We need to really think about that for a moment instead of knee-jerking.

I go out every day, I get a coffee and since this, I've been driving around observing. Going to the store when I need something. Definitely exercising outside without fear. I am being told by others "you go out too much" and "you are putting others at risk" and "why do you want to spread the virus".

So, you are a typical Nomad. You are just being who you are. Not unexpected, judged or blamed.

But what we've had since you guys have been around, and as we prophets have adapted to you guys and been pilloried by you guys and given in to your criticisms, is Reaganomics. We have gone way too far in the individualist direction. We need for the state to have more power. Of course, what kind of power, is the question. More power like FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK and Lyndon Johnson had? Or more power like Hitler and Stalin had? In America, perhaps we can hope the former is more likely. But paradoxically, in the Reagan era of the last 40 years, power more like Hitler had has increased despite the individualist rhetoric. So, it depends what the people decide. Keep Mussolini in power, or not?

I say, allow our knees to jerk, and embrace some groupthink for a while. Act for the good of the country, as JFK said. Go outside and shop as needed, but stay a safe distance from others for a month or so, to help yourself and others. And hope that some of this new collective action continues. After 40 years of regression into enabling concentrated wealth and rampant greed and abuse in the name of free enterprise, we need a new direction. We need progress, achieved together among progressive people.

[Eric the Green]

With the Republicans still resisting the change to collective action, and Trump (who allowed the crisis to fester early on) now thinking of just lifting the directives to socially distance and allowing us just to go back to work with the illness still increasing, a lot of turmoil could be in the making from this possible "trigger" and it could be a trigger indeed. How long can our government dither while New York sneezes? Our new Nero/Mussolini and his cohorts will face the whirlwind.

The conflict of red and blue will thereby ramp up in the next week or so. The red want to use the crisis to further support the rich and allow everyone else to get sick and stay poor, while the blue want government to provide a more socialistic stimulus directed at most people and continue the restrictions on social distance as the only way to stop this pandemic. Given this choice, the people may start to turn towards the blues, so that the Republicans are turned out and thus progress can restart. I certainly hope the people make the right choice here for the blues.

It is not prophets standing in the way of solving problems. It is the reds. That could not be more clear. This is not a generational question, it is a political and ideological one.

[Eric the Green]

(03-23-2020, 05:50 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(03-23-2020, 05:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Going outside is still permitted here in CA as I understand it, but distance should be kept and gatherings avoided. I saw the reports. The films showed some people getting too close. That should not be allowed right now. We need to learn to act for the benefit of society now. That as I see it means observing social distance now. If we do this the virus could abate in a month or two as it did in Korea and China. If we don't do this now, normal life may be gone forever.

At the very least, the less seriously everyone takes the precautions, the longer the precautions have to stay in place.  Those fighting the precautions are not only killing people, but are perpetuating the inconvenience of people generally, not to mention the economic situation being made worse.

We are in agreement. Worth mentioning that

[Bob Butler 54]

(03-24-2020, 01:34 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: We are in agreement. Worth mentioning that

Amazing, isn’t it.  I will have to check for flaws again.  

CNN has an article that calls it plainly.  Reds are fighting for the economy.  Blues are fighting for lives.  Are people expendable rather than ruining the economy and the chances of a Trump reelection?  The conflict isn't quite as pure as that.  More than a few reds have crossed over to fighting for lives.  In general though that is a fairly clear divide.

I generally like how you have recently describe the turning, but came up with another buzz word heavy description.  The heart of the Crisis comes after the Trigger and Regeneracy.  The Grey Champion is the leader.  The Idealist -  Nomad - Hero configuration is in place.

Normally the heart was a Crisis War in the Industrial Age, but is the Coronavirus this time around.

[David Horn]

(03-24-2020, 01:28 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: With the Republicans still resisting the change to collective action, and Trump (who allowed the crisis to fester early on) now thinking of just lifting the directives to socially distance and allowing us just to go back to work with the illness still increasing, a lot of turmoil could be in the making from this possible "trigger" and it could be a trigger indeed. How long can our government dither while New York sneezes? Our new Nero/Mussolini and his cohorts will face the whirlwind.

The conflict of red and blue will thereby ramp up in the next week or so. The red want to use the crisis to further support the rich and allow everyone else to get sick and stay poor, while the blue want government to provide a more socialistic stimulus directed at most people and continue the restrictions on social distance as the only way to stop this pandemic. Given this choice, the people may start to turn towards the blues, so that the Republicans are turned out and thus progress can restart. I certainly hope the people make the right choice here for the blues.

It is not prophets standing in the way of solving problems. It is the reds. That could not be more clear. This is not a generational question, it is a political and ideological one.

This is the quintessential battle of freedom and duty.  Personally, I think NY will focus on Cuomo's plan, and Trump's call for "a return to normalcy" will be ignored by most.  That it will be taken to heart by a few will still be a problem, since the hospitals in NY are already above capacity and testing is still inadequate.   This will be a test -- probably one of several.  Will average Joe and Jane American see 'freedom to do as one pleases' as a threat or a right to hold dear?  I suspect that, in the end, there will be a swing toward rationality.  How Trump reacts to that will the underlying issue of election-2020.  I'll predict a Trump loss, but how big is still an open question.  If it's big, then 1T behavior will begin sooner than expected.

[beechnut79]

(03-24-2020, 01:16 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-23-2020, 04:00 PM)TheNomad Wrote: ... this virus is just a bad cold, and the government is going to use it to obtain yet more power.  With every Crisis, there has been a vast expansion of 'higher power'.  It certainly happened in the last Crisis.  Everything we think of as modern in America came from then... in terms of the Collective.  Where, the Personal came later with Awakening, of course.

I'm not a person that is loving this situation.  Not just because I feel interruption of MY life and those I care about, but because I inherently despise being told what to do.  I'll admit that.  Yet, it comes from my youth in the raw rebellion against powers of any kind.  I don't like them nor the idea of anyone in 'office' telling people on the ground how to live.  And I've a long-standing hate for ever-encroaching authorities who say they are doing good but just becoming personally wealthy through influence.

You say sacrifice.  You anecdoted the story of the man who wanted to DO something when told not to.  He was trying to do something... and action... to assist.  He was being told exactly what to do but didn't want to do that?  Wanted something else instead?  We are being told to sacrifice by NOT doing something.  By not doing ANYTHING.  

There was an article today, someone blasted "this is not a WAR, far from it."  Which is true.  No one believes they are battling anything.  There is no war.  By the narrative here, many of us will die................................. OR WE WON'T.  There is no real or true diagram of any of it.

We are being told, stay inside of you and/or others will die.

We need to really think about that for a moment instead of knee-jerking.

I go out every day, I get a coffee and since this, I've been driving around observing.  Going to the store when I need something.  Definitely exercising outside without fear.  I am being told by others "you go out too much" and "you are putting others at risk" and "why do you want to spread the virus".

So, you are a typical Nomad. You are just being who you are. Not unexpected, judged or blamed.

But what we've had since you guys have been around, and as we prophets have adapted to you guys and been pilloried by you guys and given in to your criticisms, is Reaganomics. We have gone way too far in the individualist direction. We need for the state to have more power. Of course, what kind of power, is the question. More power like FDR, Truman, Ike, JFK and Lyndon Johnson had? Or more power like Hitler and Stalin had? In America, perhaps we can hope the former is more likely. But paradoxically, in the Reagan era of the last 40 years, power more like Hitler had has increased despite the individualist rhetoric. So, it depends what the people decide. Keep Mussolini in power, or not?

I say, allow our knees to jerk, and embrace some groupthink for a while. Act for the good of the country, as JFK said. Go outside and shop as needed, but stay a safe distance from others for a month or so, to help yourself and others. And hope that some of this new collective action continues. After 40 years of regression into enabling concentrated wealth and rampant greed and abuse in the name of free enterprise, we need a new direction. We need progress, achieved together among progressive people.

But progress can also be a very misused word as well.  Is it really progress when the interests of Wall Street consistently trump those of Main Street, as they have for the better part of four decades? And when fertil farmland is destroyed to make room for shopping malls and office buildings, which in a way are now themselves on the wane?

[beechnut79]

(03-24-2020, 03:15 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(03-24-2020, 01:34 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: We are in agreement. Worth mentioning that

Amazing, isn’t it.  I will have to check for flaws again.  

CNN has an article that calls it plainly.  Reds are fighting for the economy.  Blues are fighting for lives.  Are people expendable rather than ruining the economy and the chances of a Trump reelection?  The conflict isn't quite as pure as that.  More than a few reds have crossed over to fighting for lives.  In general though that is a fairly clear divide.

I generally like how you have recently describe the turning, but came up with another buzz word heavy description.  The heart of the Crisis comes after the Trigger and Regeneracy.  The Grey Champion is the leader.  The Idealist -  Nomad - Hero configuration is in place.

Normally the heart was a Crisis War in the Industrial Age, but is the Coronavirus this time around.

It now looks very unlikely that he will get to be President, but could Bernie still yet be this era’s Gray Champion, that one who will be remembered long after the hippie and yuppie are forgotten to all but the historian?

[beechnut79]

(03-24-2020, 01:28 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: With the Republicans still resisting the change to collective action, and Trump (who allowed the crisis to fester early on) now thinking of just lifting the directives to socially distance and allowing us just to go back to work with the illness still increasing, a lot of turmoil could be in the making from this possible "trigger" and it could be a trigger indeed. How long can our government dither while New York sneezes? Our new Nero/Mussolini and his cohorts will face the whirlwind.

The conflict of red and blue will thereby ramp up in the next week or so. The red want to use the crisis to further support the rich and allow everyone else to get sick and stay poor, while the blue want government to provide a more socialistic stimulus directed at most people and continue the restrictions on social distance as the only way to stop this pandemic. Given this choice, the people may start to turn towards the blues, so that the Republicans are turned out and thus progress can restart. I certainly hope the people make the right choice here for the blues.

It is not prophets standing in the way of solving problems. It is the reds. That could not be more clear. This is not a generational question, it is a political and ideological one.

Do you feel that this pandemic will end up doing what nothing else has been able to do, and that’s to put what is commonly referred to as Reaganomics on life support if not in its grave?

[Bob Butler 54]

(03-24-2020, 11:54 AM)beechnut79 Wrote: It now looks very unlikely that he will get to be President, but could Bernie still yet be this era’s Gray Champion, that one who will be remembered long after the hippie and yuppie are forgotten to all but the historian?

I think you may be stretching it a bit, but let's see if he pushes Biden with the blue agenda.

I have trouble using Biden and Grey Champion in the same sentence.