Kill the Electoral College

[Eric the Green]

(01-04-2017, 08:13 AM)Odin Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 08:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Which we have no right to. Let the animals live. Let the rangers take care of the ecology. Meat is not healthy for most people anyway. We certainly don't need to eat as much of it.

Your ignorance here is astounding, Eric. A deer can help feed a poor rural family for months. MONTHS OF FOOD for the price of a hunting license. You are so god-damned out of touch with real life. Get the hell out of your Bay Area bubble.

I don't need to; I know that point of view. I disagree with it.

[David Horn]

(01-03-2017, 04:26 PM)taramarie Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 12:01 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 06:55 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 01:41 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-02-2017, 06:56 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: As are you, then.

I stand by my psychological judgement

I don't mean that as applied those who disagree with me politically as a matter of ideas, but those who value guns per se. Yes, it's insanity.

There's lots of things about this world that's insane, but we still hang on to them. Guns are certainly one of them. War is probably another.

I suppose you're right about lack of police. I think the UK invented them as we know them today in the 1820s. So they've been around a long time.

<<<<< EDTED FOR BREVITTY >>>>>

I guess a basic premise of my own world view is that any wide spread culture and values set came into existence for logical reasons that made sense given the environment that begat the culture.  As a rule of thumb, when the environment changes, when what once made sense no longer makes sense, human beings are incredibly slow to adapt.  I tend to lean progressive as technology changes much, thus it is often beneficial to acknowledge that a changing situation requires a changing culture.

But if the environment changes more slowly in rural areas than urban, if the need for change in rural areas is small to nonexistent, if the changes that seem necessary in urban areas bring no benefit in rural areas, the question is convincing people to fix what doesn't seem to be broke.  One might come to expect a very firm no.  This firm no will come at a deep down values driven take no prisoners level.

And if you don't know this already, you haven't been paying attention to the various red posters that contribute here.

I guess my frustration is that few people will assume or perceive that from inside any culture, any culture, that culture always seems to be based on common sense, logic, and valued lessons learned from history at great expense.  Too many folk are stuck thinking that one's own culture is right and true, thus it follows that all other cultures are wrong.  The other guy must of course be insane, stupid, brainwashed, evil, etc...

I'm of course absolutely sure that my own perspective is definitely the correct one.  It follows that the rest of you are wrong.  

If it is any consolation one person here is listening to you and agreeing with what you say on this topic. Least you know someone is as it tends to be a lonely position to sit in.

... though a bit more brevity would be appreciated, and I offer my humble example. 

What example?

See my redaction, above

[David Horn]

(01-03-2017, 09:07 PM)Danilynn Wrote: I wish California would leave, just so Eric can have his hippie utopia and the rest of us can see it burn.

January 20 will be the most fabulous birthday I have had in forever watching my President Trump be inaugurated, unlike my birthday in 2009, and 2013. those were awful get drunk sort of birthdays watching that lame duck on his way out, get sworn in.

That Hippie Utopia generates roughly 14% of the US GDP, and even a larger percentage of the tax base.  Plan on a big tax hike or decline in spending in your state if they leave.

[David Horn]

(01-03-2017, 09:22 PM)Danilynn Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 09:18 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I would be all in favor of California leaving. I'm sure we'll take a few others with us, at least, and then at least we can be free to move forward.

ditto here.

Pulling out the 18 most likely states to leave removes 45% of US GDP and roughly 60% of the tax base.  Be careful what you ask for.

[pbrower2a]

(01-04-2017, 01:48 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 09:07 PM)Danilynn Wrote: I wish California would leave, just so Eric can have his hippie utopia and the rest of us can see it burn.

January 20 will be the most fabulous birthday I have had in forever watching my President Trump be inaugurated, unlike my birthday in 2009, and 2013. those were awful get drunk sort of birthdays watching that lame duck on his way out, get sworn in.

That Hippie Utopia generates roughly 14% of the US GDP, and even a larger percentage of the tax base.  Plan on a big tax hike or decline in spending in your state if they leave.

With California go Oregon (not that big a deal), Washington (big aircraft industry), the two big urban areas of Nevada, and Hawaii (the  closest Pacific islands to the USA, and if you remember World W II, the base from which America started defeating Imperial Japan. Alaska becomes easy pickings for Boris Putin to help Make Russia Great Again. If I had to decide which country to align with in what had been the Pacific coast states, it would be with Japan.

I would be very happy if my state became a province of Canada after seceding from a fascistic America (better yet, that America gets a new birth of freedom -- thank you, Abraham Lincoln, for that indelible phrase soon after one of America's darkest hours).  We'd even have better TV. I wonder what people in Wisconsin, Minnesota, and Greater Chicago will think.

[David Horn]

(01-04-2017, 03:23 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(01-04-2017, 01:48 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-03-2017, 09:07 PM)Danilynn Wrote: I wish California would leave, just so Eric can have his hippie utopia and the rest of us can see it burn.

January 20 will be the most fabulous birthday I have had in forever watching my President Trump be inaugurated, unlike my birthday in 2009, and 2013. those were awful get drunk sort of birthdays watching that lame duck on his way out, get sworn in.

That Hippie Utopia generates roughly 14% of the US GDP, and even a larger percentage of the tax base.  Plan on a big tax hike or decline in spending in your state if they leave.

In fairness, Mississippi produces a good fraction of the cars for normal middle class people that we used to produce here. The old Nummi plant now only makes high priced green toys for 1%ers under the Tesla banner. The old Ford plant became a mall, the ones down in SoCal turned into condos and malls. Another key output made in MS are naval vessels. California long ago lost that industry. Most of the old shipyards were rebuilt into usages that would be difficult to convert back into yards.

Yes, the businesses in MS produce a lot of added value, but the workers receive far less of the bounty than they do in CA.  The profits tend to go elsewhere, so the net benefit to MS is less than it should be.  If you peel away the so-called Blue states, and leave the Red states in a separate economic block, they would either have to assume higher tax burdens or do with less.  Right now, MS is one of many states that receives more in Federal disbursements than it pays in taxes.

[Anthony '58]

Quote:I have a rather long list and the people that make that argument believe that the Amendment in question was not properly ratified. Assuming that the Amendment was properly ratified then that makes the income tax immoral in the same way that armed robbery is. If you have trouble with this concept then I suggest that you try not paying the IRS and see what happens. In the end it will involve people with guns taking your stuff much like the armed robber does.

Yet interestingly, replacing the income tax with a national sales tax - an outright likelihood if the Republicans attain a filibuster-proof majority in the Senate in 2018 - could very well lead to more government spending - not less: Why should rich people who can remember first-hand paying a 40% top income tax rate (even higher if they are really old) lose sleep over seeing their effective tax rate rise from 1% to 1.25% to build another round of interstate highways - or even eight new stadiums for NFL expansion teams?

And once the income tax is gone, it's gone forever - in that no future candidate, or future political party, could ever campaign on bringing back the hated IRS and hope to get elected.