And I put my head down and work. (a millenial's perspective)

[endlessvegetables]

I figured I'd pop in, here, because of the whole thing with the 'rona; out of curiosity and a touch of nostalgia I looked this place up. I wanted to see what your response to the entire thing was. And you have not disappointed.

This place is exactly what it was the first time around.

That's the problem.

COVID and all that has produced a lot of yelling and hot air. Whose fault is it? Why isn't it being handled better by [politician of choice]? What could someone in power do? Which political party is good and which is an evil virus of Satan? These seem like important questions. I mean, if there wasn't a better use of my time I would absolutely have some fun (???) discussions about various deeply-held beliefs. But these are the wrong questions right now.

There are people who are dying because they live in places where the hospitals are already over capacity. There are people who are stuck in the impossible bind of go to work and expose themselves to virus, or stay home and run out of money to pay the rent with. There are children who are being abused, who no longer have teachers to check in on them or school to be a few hours of escape and safety.

Can we please stop arguing about who said what on television and help actual people, right now?

A while ago, I read this story about someone in a superhero 'verse who rises to prominence by being the one who helps people. Ever since then, I've aspired to it. I care about people. I do what I can. Only, it turns out that I am seriously disabled and work is basically impossible for me (I'm on disability), and as such "what I can" is very, very little. On the other hand, my sewing machine is currently occupied with dozens of masks made from discount bedsheets, my computer is running folding@home, and I have been looking up and distributing reliable information as much as I can: it turns out that sometimes an early sign of COVID is loss of sense of smell, COVID pneumonia patients that are likely to need hospitalization can be detected early using pulse oximeter testing, and lying flat on one's stomach ("proning") reduces the need for ventilators without requiring any equipment by helping drain more parts of the lungs.

So: go donate to the WHO or Red Cross, dig out the handful of N95 masks you have sitting in your emergency stockpile and send them along, check in on your neighbors, call up your local supermarket and demand that they let the cashiers wear masks, don't buy out the toilet paper you don't need, whatever. Just. Do something, for someone, right now. And then you can go back to gossiping about what Trump said on Twitter this time.

[Warren Dew]

I can certainly tell you're a Millenial!

[Bob Butler 54]

Millennial, but he is echoing what S&H predicted, setting the culture as it will be through the high.  In the crisis, many will strive for the common good rather than being selfish.  I may be a boomer, but I can applaud what he is saying people should do.  

Not all are switching values given the crisis.

But I will still yell at politicians and others who put money ahead of people.  I guess that is what prophets do.

[Isoko]

Sorry but this is just one guy, a good guy I would like to add but one guy that just happens to be a millennial. There is a great hope just because of what S&H said, this generation is going to save us all and do great things.

In reality, it's a generation sat in their parents basements smoking cannabis. Especially amongst the young men. I hardly see anything 'civic' about millennials but way more nomadic if anything.

[Warren Dew]

(05-02-2020, 12:35 PM)Isoko Wrote: In reality, it's a generation sat in their parents basements smoking cannabis. Especially amongst the young men. I hardly see anything 'civic' about millennials but way more nomadic if anything.

What's characteristically Civic about the original post is the part about telling other people to do good things, but not actually contributing much himself.  Leading by example seems to be a foreign concept to Civics.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-02-2020, 12:42 AM)endlessvegetables Wrote: So: go donate to the WHO or Red Cross, dig out the handful of N95 masks you have sitting in your emergency stockpile and send them along, check in on your neighbors, call up your local supermarket and demand that they let the cashiers wear masks, don't buy out the toilet paper you don't need, whatever. Just. Do something, for someone, right now. And then you can go back to gossiping about what Trump said on Twitter this time.

I am assuming since you are advising these things, you have done some of them. Others are not being so charitable. Just out of curiosity, how much have you followed your own advice?

I myself have been more in a defensive isolation. I have done little but keep myself apart, but for a younger person I approve what you wrote so long as you leavened your words with action.

[endlessvegetables]

Quote:On the other hand, my sewing machine is currently occupied with dozens of masks made from discount bedsheets, my computer is running folding@home, and I have been looking up and distributing reliable information as much as I can

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-02-2020, 03:25 PM)endlessvegetables Wrote:

Quote:On the other hand, my sewing machine is currently occupied with dozens of masks made from discount bedsheets, my computer is running folding@home, and I have been looking up and distributing reliable information as much as I can

As far as I am concerned, good enough.  Well done.

[Eric the Green]

(05-02-2020, 12:42 AM)endlessvegetables Wrote: call up your local supermarket and demand that they let the cashiers wear masks, don't buy out the toilet paper you don't need, whatever. Just. Do something, for someone, right now. And then you can go back to gossiping about what Trump said on Twitter this time.

We need to call up our local supermarket and DEMAND that they sell or make available the masks that they require customers to wear. WHY AREN'T THEY AVAILABLE IN EVERY STORE JUST FOR THE ASKING?

[pbrower2a]

(05-06-2020, 02:26 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(05-02-2020, 12:42 AM)endlessvegetables Wrote: call up your local supermarket and demand that they let the cashiers wear masks, don't buy out the toilet paper you don't need, whatever. Just. Do something, for someone, right now. And then you can go back to gossiping about what Trump said on Twitter this time.

We need to call up our local supermarket and DEMAND that they sell or make available the masks that they require customers to wear. WHY AREN'T THEY AVAILABLE IN EVERY STORE JUST FOR THE ASKING?

I would think that masks would be profitable items for sale or could give retailers free advertising (especially for a website that offers groceries on a delivery basis). 

I have noticed that cashiers and stockers wear masks at Wal*Mart. Kroger, where its stores are unionized, got them through the union (at least in Michigan). 

As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

[David Horn]

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan. Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself. That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me. I guess it goes with drinking bleach.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-07-2020, 09:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan.  Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself.  That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me.  I guess it goes with drinking bleach.  

Yes.  I don't get things like shooting workers who refuse people service for not honoring social distancing, or even pushing park rangers in a lake for reminding people to honor distancing rules.  They are starting to get militant about it.

[David Horn]

(05-08-2020, 11:33 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-07-2020, 09:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan.  Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself.  That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me.  I guess it goes with drinking bleach.  

Yes.  I don't get things like shooting workers who refuse people service for not honoring social distancing, or even pushing park rangers in a lake for reminding people to honor distancing rules.  They are starting to get militant about it.

To be totally blunt about it, I'm equally worried that aggressive activism may arise on the left to match the activism on the right.  Antifa is still out there, but quiet at the moment.  What happens if this becomes confrontational, and the Trump Justice Department, not noted for its sense of legal balance, decides to only prosecute the Antifa crowd?  What happens after that?  

Scary. 

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-09-2020, 09:21 AM)David Horn Wrote: To be totally blunt about it, I'm equally worried that aggressive activism may arise on the left to match the activism on the right.  Antifa is still out there, but quiet at the moment.  What happens if this becomes confrontational, and the Trump Justice Department, not noted for its sense of legal balance, decides to only prosecute the Antifa crowd?  What happens after that?  

Scary. 

It still takes two sides to escalate a Spiral of Violence.  Antifa generally only shows up for a preplanned organized demonstration at which the police are generally present.  The anti isolation protesters are usually individual, widely scattered, unannounced and apparently spontaneous.  It would be hard to plan a reaction.  Things would have to shift significantly to bring about an escalation.

I’m sure, though, it could be managed if they tried.

[David Horn]

(05-09-2020, 12:38 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(05-09-2020, 09:21 AM)David Horn Wrote: To be totally blunt about it, I'm equally worried that aggressive activism may arise on the left to match the activism on the right.  Antifa is still out there, but quiet at the moment.  What happens if this becomes confrontational, and the Trump Justice Department, not noted for its sense of legal balance, decides to only prosecute the Antifa crowd?  What happens after that?  

Scary. 

It still takes two sides to escalate a Spiral of Violence.  Antifa generally only shows up for a preplanned organized demonstration at which the police are generally present.  The anti isolation protesters are usually individual, widely scattered, unannounced and apparently spontaneous.  It would be hard to plan a reaction.  Things would have to shift significantly to bring about an escalation.

I’m sure, though, it could be managed if they tried.

I agree that Antifa has been pretty well-disciplined so far, but their pendulum of concerns is swinging strongly. I'm not sure that discipline can be assumed.  On the other hand, don't discount the degree of organization behind the alt-Right.  The participants tend to be unaffiliated for the most part, but there are agitators in the crowd, stirring things up -- especially now that Trump has made no secret of supporting them.  Will this ignite?  TBD.  Can it ignite? Absolutely.

[Bob Butler 54]

(05-09-2020, 03:07 PM)David Horn Wrote: Will this ignite?  TBD.  Can it ignite? Absolutely.

This one is about a mass shooting in a Texas park.  There is nothing so far to say it is gang related, coronavirus related, or just another random act.  Still, there is lots of room to wonder.

[Kinser79]

(05-02-2020, 12:35 PM)Isoko Wrote: Sorry but this is just one guy, a good guy I would like to add but one guy that just happens to be a millennial. There is a great hope just because of what S&H said, this generation is going to save us all and do great things.

In reality, it's a generation sat in their parents basements smoking cannabis. Especially amongst the young men. I hardly see anything 'civic' about millennials but way more nomadic if anything.

Someone, who I won't name, has already pointed out that the nomadic tendencies among Millennials can be explained through Mega-Saecular forces.  That the "high" that is comming will merely set up a saeculum of crisis.

As for COVID-19 itself, it is a very strong flu/cold like disease which happens to have spooked the powers that be.  In five years everyone will think the lock downs and so on didn't work (which they aren't) and the Carona Karens will be openly mocked.

[Kinser79]

(05-07-2020, 09:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan.  Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself.  That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me.  I guess it goes with drinking bleach.  

I would argue that the making partisan of mask wearing is coming solely from the Blues.  This COVID-19 is about as deadly as the flu meaning unless you aren't already dying of something you're perfectly safe from it.

The latest scare of toxic shock in children exposed to the virus is probably a overreaction by their immune systems because their foolish parents didn't permit them to develop their own immune system naturally.  See all the other allergies people seem to be having these days.

Finally the idea behind the masks anyway is to prevent you from spreading the virus if you have it, not to prevent you from getting it.

[Ragnarök_62]

(05-12-2020, 06:29 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-07-2020, 09:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan.  Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself.  That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me.  I guess it goes with drinking bleach.  

I would argue that the making partisan of mask wearing is coming solely from the Blues.  This COVID-19 is about as deadly as the flu meaning unless you aren't already dying of something you're perfectly safe from it.

The latest scare of toxic shock in children exposed to the virus is probably a overreaction by their immune systems because their foolish parents didn't permit them to develop their own immune system naturally.  See all the other allergies people seem to be having these days.

Finally the idea behind the masks anyway is to prevent you from spreading the virus if you have it, not to prevent you from getting it.

Yup, it's all partisan and the like.  There's fake news and just plain bullshit out there. Anyhhow, as for Corona, the death rate varies by some assorted things.  There's obesity along with a possible end state of type 2 diabetes. Next, you have it, yes, males have 2/3's of the deaths, females, only 1/3.  I'd also add in assorted genetic factors like, HLA, interferon, and other stuff like that, which seems to be unknown at present.  I think it strange that at these opening up demonstrations , most of the participants are male, and some are yup, fat.  So Darwin awards all around!

I'd also venture to say that messed up immune systems are a product of pollution. Endocrine disrupters like TCDD, DDT, and the crap that's in plastic.  There's also the usual natural stuff like lead and arsenic that also mess things up.
Globalism is of course the ultimate vector for spread.   Just think of all of those flying aluminum petri dishes criss crossing the whole world.  As Rags always says, the next pandemic is only 1 airplane ride away.  Globalism and Neoliberalism also left the US as a sitting duck. Shitty public health and folks in fear of a huge medical bill make's some shy away from getting tested.

So, I await for the 2nd wave. It's gonna be a doozy...

I do prefer the spin free zone. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/32150360.

[David Horn]

(05-12-2020, 06:29 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(05-07-2020, 09:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(05-06-2020, 05:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: As a customer I try to shame people without masks... and I praise people for wearing them. Maybe we can do that. I got mine for donating blood at a Red Cross blood drive.  Carrot and stick -- try to be nice overall.

It's a sad commentary that the issue of mask wearing is now partisan.  Why it's considered bad by Republicans and others in the Red camp is amazing, in and of itself.  That it's considered an affront to the Orange One and a sign of true bravado is a level of cult fanaticism that's new to me.  I guess it goes with drinking bleach.  

I would argue that the making partisan of mask wearing is coming solely from the Blues.  This COVID-19 is about as deadly as the flu meaning unless you aren't already dying of something you're perfectly safe from it.

The latest scare of toxic shock in children exposed to the virus is probably a overreaction by their immune systems because their foolish parents didn't permit them to develop their own immune system naturally.  See all the other allergies people seem to be having these days.

Finally the idea behind the masks anyway is to prevent you from spreading the virus if you have it, not to prevent you from getting it.

Like your mentor, you seem totally at ease practicing medicine without a license.  Carry on.