What Republicans do

[David Horn]

(10-05-2017, 04:56 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-05-2017, 02:17 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: Yet we are often tole that the balance we seek between us and others can also be found within ourselves. This should mean that we have the ability to create positive outcomes by redirecting our energy to suit our own well-being. There you have the malaise in a nutshell. Most of us are so busy suiting our own well-being that we could care less about the collective welfare of the society at large. "Give me convenience or give me death", as mentioned on one thread here a while back, seems to be the battle cry of the whole society across all living generations. And until something shakes out there, nothing much will change for the better.

Agreed.  That's it in a nutshell.

I'd like to propose that the spirit of the last crisis and awakening, of abandoning self to pay attention to the strident needs of the nation, is cyclical.  Some fraction of it could come back.  Some talk as if the self centered spirit of the unraveling should be permanent.  At the moment, that is the key question.

Oddly, or maybe not, DJT talks both sides of this argument and tries to won both factions.  He seems to succeed with his most fervent backers, who believe that ultimate freedom and complete security can coexist without sacrifice or compromise.

[Eric the Green]

(10-05-2017, 02:17 PM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(10-04-2017, 12:24 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-04-2017, 10:38 AM)beechnut79 Wrote:

(10-04-2017, 10:27 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote: Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

Donald Trump is the malignant tumor that will most likely be excised on January 20, 2021. That tumor is not the cancer, namely a plutocratic trend that began to root itself in America when Ronald Reagan became President.

Republicans so far seem good at ensuring that Democrats fail, and at entrenching themselves slowly with salami tactics.

One thing we have collectively become very good at is controlling our emotions while chasing our ambitions. While it can seem like an arduous task, our career ambitions individually have become top dog, especially since our emotional selves appear to be for the most part hidden. And, BTW, research has shown that Millennials are having less sex than did their parents and grandparents. Any connection?

Losing optimism in the American Dream. As America goes from being a democracy to being a Marcos-like kleptocracy, one can expect such. Politicians like Donald Trump, Paul Ryan, and Mitch McConnell (let alone such extreme outliers as Roy Moore) represent the antithesis of Millennial interests. I expect this generation to be just short of being as sympathetic to the irrationalism so much a part of American politics as the French equivalents of America's chilly Republican rationalists were to the Bourbon monarchy and its hangers-on. There might be no guillotine, though.

Sure, everyone dreams of going heavily in debt for education for a good job, only to find that unless one has the right college major that one will get something once relegated to high-school graduates or even dropouts, and that even if one gets a well-paying job one gets gouged for high rent in a tiny apartment. [/snark] If high rents are 'progress', then I (as a Boomer) can understand that some progress is not worth it.

Yet we are often tole that the balance we seek between us and others can also be found within ourselves. This should mean that we have the ability to create positive outcomes by redirecting our energy to suit our own well-being. There you have the malaise in a nutshell. Most of us are so busy suiting our own well-being that we could care less about the collective welfare of the society at large. "Give me convenience or give me death", as mentioned on one thread here a while back, seems to be the battle cry of the whole society across all living generations. And until something shakes out there, nothing much will change for the better.

Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

[Ragnarök_62]

Some Republicans like our *Okie variants have managed to screw up some things in a breath taking way.  


1. Hepatitis C to go with yer opiods. 

2.  ... graft.



Here's a what California does.


There's some Okie laws on the   books there.

I'm so, so triggered, not!


And here's a what Oklahoma does  ... way too many Republicans.

3. Folks are waiting for budget to happen.


--- Budget impasses, in Red states and Blue.

[David Horn]

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

[pbrower2a]

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees 'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American swill turn against those elites.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a different day.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-21-2017, 04:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees  'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American swill turn against those elites.

Right now, you are a bigger menace than the elites you claim are the ones keeping you/us down. You're the menace because you're one that we can see. Eric is another menace that we can see as well.

[pbrower2a]

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

Name please. I would condemn this if this comedian mocked Bill O'Reiily on this if Bill O'Reilly had said nothing. Bill O'Reilly is effectively silenced as a media figure.  

Quote:If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a  different day.

Gallows humor is an old habit. Sometimes that is all we have. If someone wants to mock the incompetence of Donald Trump in dealing with the hurricane, then so be it. That goes with the territory known as the Presidency.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-21-2017, 05:17 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Gallows humor is an old habit. Sometimes that is all we have. If someone wants to mock the incompetence of Donald Trump in dealing with the hurricane, then so be it. That goes with the territory known as the Presidency.

It's good to see that blues don't take issue with the use of gallows humor.

[Eric the Green]

(10-21-2017, 05:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees  'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American will turn against those elites.

Right now, you are a bigger menace than the elites you claim are the ones keeping you/us down. You're the menace because you're one that we can see. Eric is another menace that we can see as well.

Those who vote Republican are those who do not see or refuse to see the threat posed by those economic elites, and by the trickle-down philosophy that allows them to dominate our society for their own interest. They enable that philosophy to continue to deceive and oppress us. It's time for more of us to awaken. I'm not convinced that we can't awaken and resume progress, even in the lifetime of boomers-- even though we continue to ride the pendulum back and forth between incremental progress and, what we ride today, destructive and total regression. I'm proud if I am really a "menace" to that regression. I can only hope so.

[Eric the Green]

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Unfortunately, the blues are no longer in charge of those resources; FEMA is not a blue agency now, nor is the military, and without those it's hard for citizens to mount flotillas of volunteers and charity to help those in need in PR. But blue and probably red people too are doing what they can anyway, while Trump tweets instead and does next to nothing, and gives himself a 10 for doing it.

[pbrower2a]

(10-21-2017, 05:16 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 08:59 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-17-2017, 07:12 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Good point. I was wondering today how much convenience I am really willing to give up for the collective good.

... and that's it in a nutshell.  As a nation, we aren't ready to suffer even minor discomfort -- not yet anyway.  What will take us there and when are both open questions.  I'm still in the not-this-time camp.  We may have to suffer greatly to benefit greatly.  We're too old to suffer the worst of it, and will certainly not be around to witness the best either.  I do fear for those much younger.  They didn't make the mess, but they'll be the clean-up crew.

We will be able to make great sacrifices when going along with a trend that economic elites have imposed upon us violates our core beliefs. Do you believe that America would have done an invasion on the scale of D-Day (the most lethal day in American history except for some in the Civil War) except that we found defeating the Nazi menace a compelling necessity?

We will make great collective sacrifices when the menace is individual evil for almost all people. If one sees  'our' economic elites as menaces to our freedom, prosperity, and personal dignity then even we American swill turn against those elites.

Right now, you are a bigger menace than the elites you claim are the ones keeping you/us down. You're the menace because you're one that we can see. Eric is another menace that we can see as well.

So how am I a menace?

The real menaces are people who see no higher purpose in life than their gain, indulgence, and power -- an objective that they can enjoy and for which other must suffer. Those people, their brutal enforcers, and their cynical propagandists will have to go if we are not to find that what passes for prosperity is subjection. Maybe the most extreme narcissists who can get away with such (like Donald Trump) are a Boomer phenomenon that will die out and become irrelevant -- or maybe they will set a persistent pattern in life.

So you see nothing wrong with government by corporate lobbyists, the political reality of contemporary America? That sounds like a new form of tyranny to me, something that could easily become as objectionable as the capricious despotism of George III. It could be more dangerous because it is more systematic and rational. It now has weapons and prisons as potential enforcers. All it needs is a Gestapo-like, KGB-like, or Mukhabarat-like (secret police of Satan Hussein) to ensure that people who dissent are killed or subjected to a worldly Hell.

The powerful gangsters who proved the menaces to American democracy during the last Crisis Era, the ones who operated from Berlin, Tokyo, and Rome, would have had to conquer America to impose their sick dreams upon America. Today the ones who can inflict their sick dreams operate in corporate board rooms, sold-out law firms, and the dens of iniquity known as lobbying firms. We could hold off Hitler, Tojo, and Mussolini well enough that we could keep our institutions intact. Today the enemy is among us.

Were I German, Italian, or Japanese I would recognize how horrible were the fascist thug regimes my country had had around 75 years ago, and would be glad that the US had defeated them and given their conquests back to the Peoples of their countries while extirpating the root causes of fascism. I would have considered America a largely-benign influence, perhaps a bit clumsy enough to pose an occasional inconvenience (the 800-pound gorilla, so to speak) -- until Trump became President and said things that I would have never expected an American President to say. The 800-pound gorilla has morphed into an 800-pound bear.

American culture? Nothing that a little Bach, Puccini, or Hokusai couldn't enrich. American politics? Scary. It is beginning to resemble something all too familiar. The method may be different. But were I German, Italian, or Japanese I would want to stick with what the Americans left us in the 1940s than what they now have. I would also be scared of a country armed to the teeth that needs only a Gestapo, Ovra, or Kempeitai to compel obedience to people with God-like powers but at the same time a demonic lack of conscience.

[David Horn]

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a  different day.

You miss the point.  Yes, results matter, but so does effort.  Trump blew-off the entire Puerto Rico hurricane disaster as  not so important, then he dissed the Puerto Ricans for wanting everything handed to them (unlike the Texans and Floridians who got it without asking).

Trump is about as subtle as a Mack truck.  When he gets praised or dissed, it's pretty easy to see why.

[pbrower2a]

(10-22-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal (profanity redacted) about Trump, just a  different day.

You miss the point.  Yes, results matter, but so does effort.  Trump blew-off the entire Puerto Rico hurricane disaster as  not so important, then he dissed the Puerto Ricans for wanting everything handed to them (unlike the Texans and Floridians who got it without asking).

Trump is about as subtle as a Mack truck.  When he gets praised or dissed, it's pretty easy to see why.]

Indeed. If the President is decent enough he will even interrupt a political campaign to deal with an approaching hurricane, even with political leaders of the other Party. He won't seek praise while the his role in meeting the menace is over. To be sure, Americans generally take competence in meeting disasters for granted, so there isn't much political gain from dealing well with even an earthquake or tornado for which there is no warning. Obama well handled a monster tornado in Joplin, Missouri... and he still lost Missouri in 2012.

Donald Trump is an addict for praise. If he doesn't get it from objective third parties he will arrange for flunkies or give it to himself.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-22-2017, 12:46 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-22-2017, 10:39 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Yawn, same liberal shit about Trump, just a  different day.

You miss the point.  Yes, results matter, but so does effort.  Trump blew-off the entire Puerto Rico hurricane disaster as  not so important, then he dissed the Puerto Ricans for wanting everything handed to them (unlike the Texans and Floridians who got it without asking).

Trump is about as subtle as a Mack truck.  When he gets praised or dissed, it's pretty easy to see why.]

Indeed. If the President is decent enough he will even interrupt a political campaign to deal with an approaching hurricane, even with political leaders of the other Party. He won't seek praise while the his role in meeting the menace is over. To be sure, Americans generally take competence in meeting disasters for granted, so there isn't much political gain from dealing well with even an earthquake or tornado for which there is no warning. Obama well handled a monster tornado in Joplin, Missouri... and he still lost Missouri in 2012.

Donald Trump is an addict for praise. If he doesn't get it from objective third parties he will arrange for flunkies or give it to himself.

I don't remember the tornado that hit Joplin, Missouri. I do remember a hurricane that hit New Jersey.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-22-2017, 04:03 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-21-2017, 04:44 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 07:11 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-02-2017, 05:52 PM)Bronsin Wrote:

(02-03-2017, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: This is what Republicans do. They uphold corruption. They do everything wrong. They need to be stopped; period.

Just keep banging that gong. Maybe someday someone will hear it.

I'm dubious.  I often use the phrase, "He can convince those already convinced."  It seems the gong is pitched absolutely blue.  What will the red leaning hear?

Classic?  Anyone?

I heard a bunch a blue noise coming out of the mouth of a blue comedian playing the role of a person like Bill O'Reilly who seems to care about Puerto Rico as much as Americans who live within continental United States seem to care about it based on the way he's making fun of the situation.

If he really cared, he'd be more serious and come across as less childish and less funny and less interested in receiving laughs. It's hard to take a foolish blues person's view of anything very serious. It's true that Puerto Rico is not located within the continental US like the State of Florida and Texas and getting resources to them by air and sea is going to be harder for them than us, so to speak. Who is running Puerto Rico these days? Democrats or Republicans? You'd think a blue colony affiliated with blue America and all the blue American money that it has, would have all the resources ( big government institutions and systems and stock piles of necessities) in place that it would need to deal with a few nasty hurricanes during a hurricane season.

Unfortunately, the blues are no longer in charge of those resources; FEMA is not a blue agency now, nor is the military, and without those it's hard for citizens to mount flotillas of volunteers and charity to help those in need in PR. But blue and probably red people too are doing what they can anyway, while Trump tweets instead and does next to nothing, and gives himself a 10 for doing it.

Blue America has lots of millionaires, a group of wealthy states with lots of resources, taxpayers who seem willing to donate more and more of their income to more and more blue causes and lots of young people who seem eager to go out of their way, place their lives on hold and volunteer for the greater good of blues who view PR as their home.

[Eric the Green]

The Republicans on a 51-49 vote have brought back supply-side, trickle-down economics, yet again, adhering to the Reagan philosophy that government is the problem, not the solution, that government spending must be reduced for social, cultural and environmental needs, increased for the military instead, with a huge new debt to be passed on to future generations, in the false hope that the tax cuts will spur growth that will make up for the new debt.

But it doesn't work. Under Reagan, the upper 10% and especially the upper 1% experienced growth and prosperity, which pushed up the GNP statistic, but everyone else experienced economic stagnation and/or decline. Under W. Bush, it didn't even boost the GNP. Trickle-down had already failed under Herbert Hoover and his two predecessors. But Republicans believe in it as a holy grail and are pushing it again under Trump. Having approved the budget, it looks likely that the tax cuts will pass too.

Unlike what Classic Xer may assume, I am not a booster of exorbitant taxes. I think they should be reasonable, even on the rich, and not be expropriations to make everyone equal. I don't even think Bernie Sanders goes anywhere near that far. We should approve of how much we pay, and what the money goes for, in order to support taxes.

But we have had 40 years of tax cuts now. Taxes are already low enough. All Trump's tax cuts do is repeal the extra 4% that Obama got passed on the richest Americans. This has helped hold down the deficit in recent years. Having only 3 tax brackets will likely mean that many middle class people pay more, especially among the lower middle class. And these cuts are of no value to the poorer people. They benefited from the government spending that is being cut instead. In effect then, the poorer will be paying more, as they lose programs and subsidies. The community as a whole will lose because of cuts to valuable programs that enhance the value of communities.

Government is not inherently evil, as libertarians assume. It is the way everyone is required and enabled to contribute to the nation and do its business, with appropriate accommodations and exceptions, according to the peoples' will. Government employees are not dependents; they are doing good and necessary work, and the jobs and income they get stimulates the economy. Government workers do not outsource, automate and conglomerate the government.

Government spending stimulates the economy. Communities get valuable infrastructure and education, and health benefits from regulating pollution and climate change. Jobs are created through government investment in new industries that are in the national interest. The poorer people spend the benefits they get, which stimulates the economy, while the rich do not spend the tax savings they get from supply-side tax cuts. They buy luxuries for themselves, which stimulate few industries. They also continue to fire employees through consolidation, automation and outsourcing. Thus, they are not "job creaters," for the most part, as Ryan and Company assume-- following as they do Ayn Rand, Mises, Friedman at al.. Under this corporate, trickle-down economic structure that we have today, the number of poor and unemployed is increasing, as jobs are shipped overseas and decreased through automation and consolidation. This retards the economy, and does not stimulate it.

But by 51-49, the people spoke, and Supply Side is their will. Supply side will fail again. Will we ever learn?

[pbrower2a]

Possibly even worse. Yes, those tax cuts will probably go into elite indulgence to the exclusion of all else, and then as the glories of economic inequality fail to bring prosperity to anyone else while bloating the deficit, we will probably end up wit have some tax reform that imposes a federal sales tax to support sweetheart deals between the government and political cronies, wars for profit, maybe we will end up with a nasty little recession to be solved by cutting living standards even more while coming up with even more big tax cuts for the Master Classes.

The President has a commission examining the integrity of the 2016 election. After all, not enough people voted for the Most Magnificent Leader in American History (irony intended). Shouldn't people be voting as their employers want them to vote?

OK, enough of the venting.

Quote:President Donald Trump’s advisory commission on election integrity has integrity questions of its own — with some of its own members raising concerns about its openness.

This past week, two members fired off letters to commission staff complaining about a lack of information about the panel’s agenda and demanding answers about its activities. That comes as Democratic U.S. senators are requesting a government investigation of the commission for ignoring formal requests from Congress.

The criticism from the commissioners was remarkable because it came from insiders — the very people who are supposed to be privy to its internal discussions and plans.

In a letter sent Oct. 17, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said it was clear he was not being made aware of information pertaining to the commission. He requested copies of all correspondence between commission members since Trump signed the executive order creating it in May.

“I am in a position where I feel compelled to inquire after the work of the commission upon which I am sworn to serve, and am yet completely uninformed as to its activities,” Dunlap wrote in his letter to Andrew Kossack, the commission’s executive director.

He said he had received no information about the commission’s research or activities since its last meeting, on Sept. 12. He also said he continued to receive media inquiries about commission developments “that I as a commissioner am blind to.”

A commissioner from Alabama, Jefferson County Probate Judge Alan L. King, said he sent a similar letter late last week. He said the only information he has received since the commission’s meeting more than a month ago was an email informing him of the death of a fellow commissioner, former Arkansas state lawmaker David Dunn.

“Here I am on this high-level government committee, and I don’t know when the next meetings are or how many meetings there will be,” he said in a telephone interview. “I am in the dark on what will happen from this point on, to tell you the truth.”

King and Dunlap are two of four Democrats on the 11-member commission.

Requests for comment sent to Kossack, the commission’s executive director, and the commission’s vice chairman, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, were not returned.

J. Christian Adams, a commission member who was a Justice Department attorney under former President George W. Bush, said in an email that all commissioners were receiving the same information.

“Once upon a time election integrity was bipartisan,” Adams said in the email. “Apparently not all agree. That’s a shame.”

The commission has stirred controversy from the moment it was established last spring. Critics say Trump is using it to find support for his unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud that cost him the popular vote during the 2016 election. Democrat Hillary Clinton received 2.8 million more votes nationwide than Trump.

While there have been isolated cases of voter fraud in the U.S., there is no evidence of it being a widespread problem, as Trump suggests.

Critics argue the commission is stacked with people who favor voting restrictions, rather than those who want to expand access, and that the commission has a predetermined agenda that will result in recommendations making it more difficult for people to register to vote, stay registered and cast ballots.

Its first significant action was to request a wide range of information about all registered voters in every state, including partial Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses and voting history. The commission scaled back its response after stinging criticism. A tally by Associated Press reporters nationwide shows that 15 states denied the request, raising questions about how useful the information will be.

In August, the AP filed a records request with the commission under the federal Freedom of Information Act. The law specifies that agencies — including presidential commissions — have 20 business days to respond or 10 calendar days if the request was filed on an expedited basis, as the AP’s was. To date, the AP has received no response from the commission despite multiple attempts to get one.

The commission’s secrecy prompted a lawsuit by the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, which alleges the commission is violating federal open meetings and disclosure laws.

The group’s executive director, Kristen Clarke, said she was hard-pressed to think of another commission that had acted in such secrecy.

“We have found that, in every respect, this commission has been carrying out its activities in an almost covert fashion,” she said.

The lack of openness even applies to members of Congress.

Democratic senators have filed at least five separate requests for information with the commission since June, and a Sept. 12 follow-up letter noted that none of those had received a response.

“The Commission has not responded to a single letter from Senators with oversight jurisdiction over the Commission and continues to be rebuked for its questionable activities,” said the letter by Democratic Sens. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

Last week, a group of three Democratic senators wrote the Government Accountability Office seeking an investigation into the commission because of its lack responsiveness and transparency. The letter signed by Sens. Michael Bennet of Colorado, Cory Booker of New Jersey and Klobuchar cited a lack of transparency on the commission and concern that its conclusions would diminish confidence in the democratic process.

“It is incredible that they are not responding to any of this stuff, and that’s why it’s appropriate for GAO to take a look,” Bennet said in an interview.  

https://apnews.com/bbeec75d754a4f738acff...ansparency

[beechnut79]

(10-23-2017, 01:44 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Possibly even worse. Yes, those tax cuts will probably go into elite indulgence to the exclusion of all else, and then as the glories of economic inequality fail to bring prosperity to anyone else while bloating the deficit, we will probably end up wit have some tax reform that imposes a federal sales tax to support sweetheart deals between the government and political cronies, wars for profit, maybe we will end up with a nasty little recession to be solved by cutting living standards even more while coming up with even more big tax cuts for the Master Classes.

The President has a commission examining the integrity of the 2016 election. After all, not enough people voted for the Most Magnificent Leader in American History (irony intended). Shouldn't people be voting as their employers want them to vote?

OK, enough of the venting.

Quote:President Donald Trump’s advisory commission on election integrity has integrity questions of its own — with some of its own members raising concerns about its openness.

This past week, two members fired off letters to commission staff complaining about a lack of information about the panel’s agenda and demanding answers about its activities. That comes as Democratic U.S. senators are requesting a government investigation of the commission for ignoring formal requests from Congress.

The criticism from the commissioners was remarkable because it came from insiders — the very people who are supposed to be privy to its internal discussions and plans.

In a letter sent Oct. 17, Maine Secretary of State Matthew Dunlap said it was clear he was not being made aware of information pertaining to the commission. He requested copies of all correspondence between commission members since Trump signed the executive order creating it in May.

“I am in a position where I feel compelled to inquire after the work of the commission upon which I am sworn to serve, and am yet completely uninformed as to its activities,” Dunlap wrote in his letter to Andrew Kossack, the commission’s executive director.

He said he had received no information about the commission’s research or activities since its last meeting, on Sept. 12. He also said he continued to receive media inquiries about commission developments “that I as a commissioner am blind to.”

A commissioner from Alabama, Jefferson County Probate Judge Alan L. King, said he sent a similar letter late last week. He said the only information he has received since the commission’s meeting more than a month ago was an email informing him of the death of a fellow commissioner, former Arkansas state lawmaker David Dunn.

“Here I am on this high-level government committee, and I don’t know when the next meetings are or how many meetings there will be,” he said in a telephone interview. “I am in the dark on what will happen from this point on, to tell you the truth.”

King and Dunlap are two of four Democrats on the 11-member commission.

Requests for comment sent to Kossack, the commission’s executive director, and the commission’s vice chairman, Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, were not returned.

J. Christian Adams, a commission member who was a Justice Department attorney under former President George W. Bush, said in an email that all commissioners were receiving the same information.

“Once upon a time election integrity was bipartisan,” Adams said in the email. “Apparently not all agree. That’s a shame.”

The commission has stirred controversy from the moment it was established last spring. Critics say Trump is using it to find support for his unsubstantiated claims of widespread voter fraud that cost him the popular vote during the 2016 election. Democrat Hillary Clinton received 2.8 million more votes nationwide than Trump.

While there have been isolated cases of voter fraud in the U.S., there is no evidence of it being a widespread problem, as Trump suggests.

Critics argue the commission is stacked with people who favor voting restrictions, rather than those who want to expand access, and that the commission has a predetermined agenda that will result in recommendations making it more difficult for people to register to vote, stay registered and cast ballots.

Its first significant action was to request a wide range of information about all registered voters in every state, including partial Social Security numbers, dates of birth, addresses and voting history. The commission scaled back its response after stinging criticism. A tally by Associated Press reporters nationwide shows that 15 states denied the request, raising questions about how useful the information will be.

In August, the AP filed a records request with the commission under the federal Freedom of Information Act. The law specifies that agencies — including presidential commissions — have 20 business days to respond or 10 calendar days if the request was filed on an expedited basis, as the AP’s was. To date, the AP has received no response from the commission despite multiple attempts to get one.

The commission’s secrecy prompted a lawsuit by the Lawyers’ Committee for Civil Rights Under Law, which alleges the commission is violating federal open meetings and disclosure laws.

The group’s executive director, Kristen Clarke, said she was hard-pressed to think of another commission that had acted in such secrecy.

“We have found that, in every respect, this commission has been carrying out its activities in an almost covert fashion,” she said.

The lack of openness even applies to members of Congress.

Democratic senators have filed at least five separate requests for information with the commission since June, and a Sept. 12 follow-up letter noted that none of those had received a response.

“The Commission has not responded to a single letter from Senators with oversight jurisdiction over the Commission and continues to be rebuked for its questionable activities,” said the letter by Democratic Sens. Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota and Sheldon Whitehouse of Rhode Island.

Last week, a group of three Democratic senators wrote the Government Accountability Office seeking an investigation into the commission because of its lack responsiveness and transparency. The letter signed by Sens. Michael Bennet of Colorado, Cory Booker of New Jersey and Klobuchar cited a lack of transparency on the commission and concern that its conclusions would diminish confidence in the democratic process.

“It is incredible that they are not responding to any of this stuff, and that’s why it’s appropriate for GAO to take a look,” Bennet said in an interview.  

https://apnews.com/bbeec75d754a4f738acff...ansparency

With all that is happening collectively are we able to find the light that shines in the darkness indicating a change in perspective? Could it be yet the Millennials who will be able to show us that iIt’s possible that the grass is greener on the other side because you can see the signs of prosperity more clearly than you ever have before?

[pbrower2a]

(10-23-2017, 05:08 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: With all that is happening collectively are we able to find the light that shines in the darkness indicating a change in perspective? Could it be yet the Millennials who will be able to show us that iIt’s possible that the grass is greener on the other side because you can see the signs of prosperity more clearly than you ever have before?

The Regeneracy. That's when there is only one path to the future that we can all accept because alternatives are either the wrong sort of change or an unsustainable status quo. Prosperity? Most of us will be looking at survival as an objective. We will recognize as a whole that we face consequences of failure even worse than death, including the destruction of what we hold dear.

We will need a vision of a better world in which the demons of the recent past are relegated to the realm of the horrific. At the same time we will need to preserve some traditions worthy of defense. But we had better get a genuine Regeneracy. We can get the tempting offer of a social order that offers a place for practically everyone, promises land to farmers, achieves full employment despite a worldwide depression, gives children purpose and structure in their lives, offers pageantry as a substitute for the troublesome habit of thinking things out, has answers even for questions that nobody asked, and offers the satisfaction of sadistic delights that people generally dare not express. People who don't fit in? They can be put out of sight and out of mind.

Want to see what a False Regeneracy looks like? A warning -- this video may be the most politically-offensive material that you have ever seen.






Admit it: there was hardly a more exciting time and place in human history in which to live than in the Third Reich, so long as you were white, non-Jewish, and not connected to Marxism or any form of 'obsolete' liberalism. Churchill and FDR may have been more adept at giving people cause for a wholesome and necessary struggle for old virtues, but those leaders spoke in reaction to Nazi crimes.  The Nazis did great pageantry as a substitute for coherent, independent thought that the system did everything possible to destroy.

OK, so here is an antithesis:






Music composed in 1942 by Aaron Copland, words mostly of Abraham Lincoln selected by Carl Sandburg or from Sandburg's biography, clearly enunciating what America was fighting for. The enemies of America had become empires of masters and slaves, and were imposing like horror in occupied countries, including then the Philippines (which was already scheduled to receive independence).

It's telling that when America captured German soldiers and sought to disinfect them of the cancerous ideology of Hitler, American captors gave Abraham Lincoln as the antidote.

Lincoln's words:

Quote:Fellow citizens, we cannot escape history. We of this congress and this administration will be remembered in spite of ourselves. No personal significance or insignificance can spare one or another of us. The fiery trial through which we pass will light us down in honor or dishonor to the latest generation. We, even we here, hold the power and bear the responsibility. (Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862)

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present. The occasion is piled high with difficulty and we must rise with the occasion. As our case is new, so we must think anew and act anew. We must disenthrall ourselves and then we shall save our country. (Annual Message to Congress, December 1, 1862)

It is the eternal struggle between two principles, right and wrong, throughout the world. It is the same spirit that says 'you toil and work and earn bread, and I'll eat it.' No matter in what shape it comes, whether from the mouth of a king who seeks to bestride the people of his own nation, and live by the fruit of their labor, or from one race of men as an apology for enslaving another race, it is the same tyrannical principle." (Lincoln-Douglas debates, October 15, 1858)

As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever differs from this, to the extent of the difference, is no democracy. (Unknown, though in Lincoln's Collected Works)

That from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion. That we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain. That this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom and that government of the people, by the people, and for the people shall not perish from the earth. (Gettysburg Address)

Need I say more?