Fascism is on the ballot

[Eric the Green]

(10-24-2020, 09:56 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Unlike Biden, Trump has enough American support to hand over the keys to Biden and then lead a movement to break with the Democratic states and establish a group of American states at this point. So, would you prefer to experience a repeat of the American Revolutionary War or a repeat of the American Civil War this time around or a deadly combination of the previous American conflicts this time around so to speak? 

Actually, the split may be acceptable to both sides. Like any divorce, dividing the assets and liabilities will be real challenge.

Exactly. It seems pretty clear to me that if Biden wins, the contiguous southern and interior north-western red states will be allowed to leave the union if they wish. But if Trump wins the Republican tyrants are not likely to let blue coastal and south-western states leave, because they are tyrants, and they will likely start a civil war if we leave. A blue secession movement seems quite likely, however, if Barrett installs Trump as president despite the peoples' vote.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-24-2020, 04:09 PM)yBob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes, the my way or the highway style of leadership seems to be what the Democratic side still prefers/favors these days. See PB, Eric proved that I was right about the Democratic side again. The Democratic side is more Bolshevik/Nazi/Sandinista/Old World than American these days.

Well, yes.  The approach during the crisis is towards a strong, competent government capable of using self sacrifice for the common good in solving the problems presented in the crisis.  Commonly in the US, this focus and strength weakens in the other turnings.  The red approach is the one of the unravelling turning, where selfishness is at an apex, when the individual's free choice is put above the needs of the many.

I just wouldn't boast about it, be proud of it.  Do you like seeing the bug kill people?  Are you racist?  Do you want to see the planet unlivable?

But, again, it is not difficult to tell the difference between Hitler or Stalin and Trump.  Different crisis, different problems are confronted, different lessons have to be learned.  You may be too incompetent to tell the difference and have to reach back to the last crisis for an argument, but there are many who are interested in solving this crisis rather than retreading the last one's arguments.  This time we are confronting COVUS, racial violent policing, structural racism, and to some degree global warming.  To some degree some reds are obsessed with racism, and might well be associated with Hitler's camp.  Other than that, different issues. 

No. I'm not a racist and I don't know a Republican voter who is a racist either. Are you a racist? Do you feel guilty about the losses millions of people are taking to protect the lives of people like you these days? Now, I understand how important your lives are to Joe Biden and how important they are to the Democratic party and I also know the difference between the elder blues and reds these days. Do you want America to become unlivable as developing nations with special protections like China, Russia are free to pollute and profit off it as much as they want these days. You know, if blues had some common sense, they'd understand us better. But, since common sense is missing/seriously lacking, we have a major communication gap that's not worth the time or the headaches to overcome.

[Eric the Green]

(10-24-2020, 11:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 04:09 PM)yBob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes, the my way or the highway style of leadership seems to be what the Democratic side still prefers/favors these days. See PB, Eric proved that I was right about the Democratic side again. The Democratic side is more Bolshevik/Nazi/Sandinista/Old World than American these days.

Well, yes.  The approach during the crisis is towards a strong, competent government capable of using self sacrifice for the common good in solving the problems presented in the crisis.  Commonly in the US, this focus and strength weakens in the other turnings.  The red approach is the one of the unravelling turning, where selfishness is at an apex, when the individual's free choice is put above the needs of the many.

I just wouldn't boast about it, be proud of it.  Do you like seeing the bug kill people?  Are you racist?  Do you want to see the planet unlivable?

But, again, it is not difficult to tell the difference between Hitler or Stalin and Trump.  Different crisis, different problems are confronted, different lessons have to be learned.  You may be too incompetent to tell the difference and have to reach back to the last crisis for an argument, but there are many who are interested in solving this crisis rather than retreading the last one's arguments.  This time we are confronting COVUS, racial violent policing, structural racism, and to some degree global warming.  To some degree some reds are obsessed with racism, and might well be associated with Hitler's camp.  Other than that, different issues. 

No. I'm not a racist and I don't know a Republican voter who is a racist either. Are you a racist? Do you feel guilty about the losses millions of people are taking to protect the lives of people like you these days? Now, I understand how important your lives are to Joe Biden and how important they are to the Democratic party and I also know the difference between the elder blues and reds these days. Do you want America to become unlivable as developing nations with special protections like China, Russia are free to pollute and profit off it as much as they want these days. You know, if blues had some common sense, they'd understand us better. But, since common sense is missing/seriously lacking, we have a major communication gap that's not worth the time or the headaches to overcome.

You guys are not interested in understanding. The facts roll off your backs. We understand you guys perfectly and completely. You guys don't understand us at all. Maybe you all do understand how to work and live your lives well enough. But what you don't understand, you refuse to learn.

[Eric the Green]

"to some degree global warming"

Joe Biden and the Democrats understand that this is one of the 4 crises at the top of the agenda to deal with now.

https://www.cnn.com/2019/11/28/health/cl...index.html

[Classic-Xer]

(10-24-2020, 11:51 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 11:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 04:09 PM)yBob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 03:03 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Yes, the my way or the highway style of leadership seems to be what the Democratic side still prefers/favors these days. See PB, Eric proved that I was right about the Democratic side again. The Democratic side is more Bolshevik/Nazi/Sandinista/Old World than American these days.

Well, yes.  The approach during the crisis is towards a strong, competent government capable of using self sacrifice for the common good in solving the problems presented in the crisis.  Commonly in the US, this focus and strength weakens in the other turnings.  The red approach is the one of the unravelling turning, where selfishness is at an apex, when the individual's free choice is put above the needs of the many.

I just wouldn't boast about it, be proud of it.  Do you like seeing the bug kill people?  Are you racist?  Do you want to see the planet unlivable?

But, again, it is not difficult to tell the difference between Hitler or Stalin and Trump.  Different crisis, different problems are confronted, different lessons have to be learned.  You may be too incompetent to tell the difference and have to reach back to the last crisis for an argument, but there are many who are interested in solving this crisis rather than retreading the last one's arguments.  This time we are confronting COVUS, racial violent policing, structural racism, and to some degree global warming.  To some degree some reds are obsessed with racism, and might well be associated with Hitler's camp.  Other than that, different issues. 

No. I'm not a racist and I don't know a Republican voter who is a racist either. Are you a racist? Do you feel guilty about the losses millions of people are taking to protect the lives of people like you these days? Now, I understand how important your lives are to Joe Biden and how important they are to the Democratic party and I also know the difference between the elder blues and reds these days. Do you want America to become unlivable as developing nations with special protections like China, Russia are free to pollute and profit off it as much as they want these days. You know, if blues had some common sense, they'd understand us better. But, since common sense is missing/seriously lacking, we have a major communication gap that's not worth the time or the headaches to overcome.

You guys are not interested in understanding. The facts roll off your backs. We understand you guys perfectly and completely. You guys don't understand us at all. Maybe you all do understand how to work and live your lives well enough. But what you don't understand, you refuse to learn.

I understand you fairly well but it took years for me to understand you fairly well. Unfortunately, now that I understand you fairly well, the chances of me going along are none.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-24-2020, 11:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Do you feel guilty about the losses millions of people are taking to protect the lives of people like you these days? Now, I understand how important your lives are to Joe Biden and how important they are to the Democratic party and I also know the difference between the elder blues and reds these days. Do you want America to become unlivable as developing nations with special protections like China, Russia are free to pollute and profit off it as much as they want these days. You know, if blues had some common sense, they'd understand us better. But, since common sense is missing/seriously lacking, we have a major communication gap that's not worth the time or the headaches to overcome.

The important difference is that many reds see their comfort in not wearing a mask and convenience in not social distancing is deemed more important than saving lives.  People are finding it acceptable to ignore the precautions, therefore the bug is continuing to gather steam which means the economy cannot recover.  Trump's failure to address the bug and thus to fix the economy will make it harder to eventually recover the economy.  It is due to the red continuing the selfishness which is the hallmark of the unravelling rather than the crisis willingness to sacrifice for the common good.

We understand that, but can't do much about it.  Oh, tying it to the S&H theory is not understood by many who have not studied the theory, but the lack of willingness to aid the community has been noted by most blues.  If this lack of willingness holds until a vaccine is developed, it may be too late for an at all quick economic recovery.

There are other differences of course.  The racists want to keep law enforcement killing blacks, enforcing structural racism. The Evangelicals want to use the government to enforce their religious values on those who do not share these values.  Neither party is willing to compromise on weapons, so nothing is being done about the Founding Fathers not foreseeing the need to limit military weapons in the hands of civilians.  I could go on.

I can regret some autocratic countries put profits ahead of their people's health.  Jobs were shipped abroad where unions, benefits, pay and the environment are not emphasized so the elites could profit from that lack.  I believe we should stop importing from such countries, but neither party has pushed in that direction yet.

[Bob Butler 54]

An example of how the conservatives are all up in arms, upset and rebellious at the prospect of a progressive victory.

[pbrower2a]

(10-25-2020, 04:00 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-24-2020, 11:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Do you feel guilty about the losses millions of people are taking to protect the lives of people like you these days? Now, I understand how important your lives are to Joe Biden and how important they are to the Democratic party and I also know the difference between the elder blues and reds these days. Do you want America to become unlivable as developing nations with special protections like China, Russia are free to pollute and profit off it as much as they want these days. You know, if blues had some common sense, they'd understand us better. But, since common sense is missing/seriously lacking, we have a major communication gap that's not worth the time or the headaches to overcome.

The important difference is that many reds see their comfort in not wearing a mask and convenience in not social distancing is deemed more important than saving lives.  People are finding it acceptable to ignore the precautions, therefore the bug is continuing to gather steam which means the economy cannot recover.  Trump's failure to address the bug and thus to fix the economy will make it harder to eventually recover the economy.  It is due to the red continuing the selfishness which is the hallmark of the unravelling rather than the crisis willingness to sacrifice for the common good.

It is all incredibly stupid. Survival is a virtue, and avoiding legal problems is essential to a good life. Does the Hard Right have a death wish? 

Quote:We understand that, but can't do much about it.  Oh, tying it to the S&H theory is not understood by many who have not studied the theory, but the lack of willingness to aid the community has been noted by most blues.  If this lack of willingness holds until a vaccine is developed, it may be too late for an at all quick economic recovery.

Some believe in medical miracles without recognizing that such miracles are the consequence of the skill, preparation, and mastery of medicine of physicians, a great corpus of scientific research,  and the infrastructure of the medical system. I have my view of miracles: I want to live in a way that keeps me from needing a miracle for the survival of myself. It does not help that someone distorts values that might have saved difficult-to-count lives by saying "It's just like the flu" and "like a miracle it will disappear". 
 

Quote:There are other differences of course.  The racists want to keep law enforcement killing blacks, enforcing structural racism. The Evangelicals want to use the government to enforce their religious values on those who do not share these values.  Neither party is willing to compromise on weapons, so nothing is being done about the Founding Fathers not foreseeing the need to limit military weapons in the hands of civilians.  I could go on.

The best thing that can happen for us all is that people who stand for crazy, indefensible ideas is that those ideas fail blatantly and become irrelevant. The rejection of sure failure is one condition of  progress, and it can be supremely costly to those who embody the failure. There will be deaths, crippling injuries, and prison terms. Some people will be cast off as people not to be invited to family get-togethers.

Quote:I can regret some autocratic countries put profits ahead of their people's health.  Jobs were shipped abroad where unions, benefits, pay and the environment are not emphasized so the elites could profit from that lack.  I believe we should stop importing from such countries, but neither party has pushed in that direction yet.

With Trump, America has toyed with autocratic (possible other synonyms include "dictatorial" and "despotic") government. Americans of wealth and privilege gave us the promise of cheap stuff that has typically gone into a landfill while Americans lose the manufacturing jobs that are the sole bar to grinding poverty. Although non-manufacturing activity can create great wealth (as with intellectual property), far fewer people can animate films for Pixar than can work on an automobile or television assembly line.

We need remember that the decline of the share of manufacturing in the American economy, beginning in the 1960's (when smart kids were told, "whatever you do, do not work on an assembly line because you will hate it") , when the smart kids did anything else because it was more 'meaningful' or 'modern'. Any activity needs the smart people if it is to innovate.  A year or two of assembly-line work might have inspired some smart kids to dedicate their talents to engineering instead of to 'basket-weaving', and someone who got some book-learning in economics, philosophy, psychology, and accounting might have been the ideal shop steward if he found the golden handcuffs
of union wages that made graduating to a job in a bookstore economically absurd. 

Of course we have other problems that make a return to the halcyon days (for blue-collar workers in industry) of the early 1960's impossible to achieve except in the murky demagoguery of someone so callow as Donald Trump who promised us "Make America Great Again" without telling us what that means. Great for whom? Even greater for people doing extremely well by treating Americans badly? Great for white racists troubled by the rise of Model Minorities? Or was it simply words that, as con artists usually use them, to suggest exactly what people think they want while the swindler bait-and-switches?

Just look at retailing. One of the admonitions about certain college majors is that that major "might get one a job in retailing"... so basically, avoid that major or drop out and avoid college debt (while working perhaps in retail for a near-starvation wage). Unattractive industries attract people who lack the imagination with which to innovate, the energy with which to make things work, and the vision in which to reform the system. Not so long ago, Sears and Radio Shack were deemed two of the worst five companies for which to work. Pay was awful (which is the norm in retailing) and management was incompetent and domineering. People take jobs in such places only as steppingstones to something less awful.  

It is arguable that we were better off when the televisions available for sale were overpriced pieces of furniture with 1980's technology primitive by current standards and cost a month's income instead of the televisions now as cheap as children's toys. We can regret much that we did in the neoliberal era, but that is as easy to undo as the paraplegia that resulted from an incident of bad driving in which one skidded on a road on a trip that was not necessary at the time.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-25-2020, 09:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Does the Hard Right have a death wish? 

If so, I suspect it is about to be granted.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-26-2020, 09:44 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-25-2020, 09:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Does the Hard Right have a death wish? 

If so, I suspect it is about to be granted.

We have a much better understanding of life and how life works for most these days. Bills don't pay themselves. Products don't manufacture themselves and get themselves to market. Food doesn't grow itself, process itself, ship itself and stock itself either. So, how are you going to live with most of America shutdown again? Wouldn't it be nice if we could just snap our fingers and make COVID go away?

[Classic-Xer]

(10-20-2020, 08:05 AM)David Horn Wrote: Today, the GOP is the problem. Its been the problem for a long time.  The Dems are a problem too, but a smaller one.  The GOP has been in bed with big business since the day it was formed. Big business doesn't need an advocate.  Everyone else does -- especially lower paid employees everywhere.  I know you feel that the GOP represents you, but putting yourself in the same class with the known problem will be a net negative in the future -- one you might not escape.

Expect a higher minimum wage, major tax increases and tighter regulation.  All are overdue.

Dude, if you lived in New York or California, you'd already have and would already be feeling the impacts of legislating a higher minimum wage, years of legislating higher taxes and imposing tighter regulations. It's a race to the bottom and the Democrats are winning the race. You can expect America to pullout of the race and depart with most of the country before they hit rock bottom.

[Eric the Green]

(10-27-2020, 10:53 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-26-2020, 09:44 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-25-2020, 09:43 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Does the Hard Right have a death wish? 

If so, I suspect it is about to be granted.

We have a much better understanding of life and how life works for most these days. Bills don't pay themselves. Products don't manufacture themselves and get themselves to market. Food doesn't grow itself, process itself, ship itself and stock itself either. So, how are you going to live with most of America shutdown again? Wouldn't it be nice if we could just snap our fingers and make COVID go away?

Our theory, right or wrong, is if we had shut down sooner, and longer, we could have stopped the virus like some other countries did. But it is very contagious. Corona came here and thought, oh boy! A libertarian country! Yum yum yum! What a feast! We're a country that no longer knows how to act for the benefit of others and society. Those things you mention don't happen by themselves, and they don't happen through individual initiative either. Sick Reaganism has now literally made us sick.

As that famous conservative General Patton said, "this individuality stuff is a bunch of crap!" Even he knew that an army was a joint cooperative venture, not an individualist adventure. Your method has FAILED. It's time to give the other team a chance. Perhaps Joe can persuade a few more people not to be bravado and stupid, and to wear a mask and keep distance for a while. He's not going to have the national guard distribute the vaccine. What a stupid idea! Your guy may know how to do a TV show, but he does NOT know how to run a country!

[Eric the Green]

(10-27-2020, 11:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2020, 08:05 AM)David Horn Wrote: Today, the GOP is the problem. Its been the problem for a long time.  The Dems are a problem too, but a smaller one.  The GOP has been in bed with big business since the day it was formed. Big business doesn't need an advocate.  Everyone else does -- especially lower paid employees everywhere.  I know you feel that the GOP represents you, but putting yourself in the same class with the known problem will be a net negative in the future -- one you might not escape.

Expect a higher minimum wage, major tax increases and tighter regulation.  All are overdue.

Dude, if you lived in New York or California, you'd already have and would already be feeling the impacts of legislating a higher minimum wage, years of legislating  higher taxes and imposing  tighter regulations. It's a race to the bottom and the Democrats are winning the race. You can expect America to pullout of the race  and depart with most of the country before they hit rock bottom.

We may depart, but because we want to be free to keep rising to the heights as we have been doing, NO THANKS to you guys and your stupid Reagan nonsense!

[pbrower2a]

(10-27-2020, 11:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2020, 08:05 AM)David Horn Wrote: Today, the GOP is the problem. Its been the problem for a long time.  The Dems are a problem too, but a smaller one.  The GOP has been in bed with big business since the day it was formed. Big business doesn't need an advocate.  Everyone else does -- especially lower paid employees everywhere.  I know you feel that the GOP represents you, but putting yourself in the same class with the known problem will be a net negative in the future -- one you might not escape.

Expect a higher minimum wage, major tax increases and tighter regulation.  All are overdue.

Dude, if you lived in New York or California, you'd already have and would already be feeling the impacts of legislating a higher minimum wage, years of legislating  higher taxes and imposing  tighter regulations. It's a race to the bottom and the Democrats are winning the race. You can expect America to pullout of the race  and depart with most of the country before they hit rock bottom.

Your assumption that Humanity is driven only by its greed, lusts, and appetites (Homo oeconomicus) has failed. If I get any Christmas presents this year, then I will probably get them on-line as giver or recipient. Trump really fcuked things up,  and we may have to endure a harder and more complete lockdown this coming winter just to stop COVID-19. That is the lockdown that America should have had as a whole, one not compromised for commercial events and predictable festivities. Halloween, election-day celebrations, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years' Day celebrations.... maybe college bowl games... are next. Then the Super Bowl. 

230,000 people have died in America so far.  Would you like a city the size of Richmond, Virginia or of Boise, Idaho to be wiped off the map? That is the demographic equivalent of the lethal toll of COVID-19 so far: over 230,000.

We have now surpassed the total military casualties of the Union side in the American Civil War. (218,222).  In roughly six months we are on a pace to reach the US combat death numbers of World War II... around Christmas. OK, maybe Inauguration Day if things aren't quite as swift.  Our President has been appeasing an enemy that has already attacked America, killing about 230,000 people in this country, and he has done little or even counterproductive things against an insidious enemy.  To be sure, the Civil War involved a far smaller population of Americans, and the total does not include Confederate deaths... but at least America freed the slaves of the Confederates and the Nazis in the Civil War and World War II. What do we have to show? A President who acts more as a defeatist than as the great leader that Lincoln or FDR was.    

America is in a Crisis Era, and good leadership would be acting much more like Lincoln or FDR -- or perhaps even Obama -- in a time like this. 

President Biden (he will be President barring catastrophic electoral fraud of the sort that nullifies votes or otherwise falsifies the results) will have his work cut out for him. Trump has pushed his swinishness upon as many people as he possibly could. That is difficult to remove from people. Don't try to convince me that Donald Trump is anything other than a catastrophic failure. He had te possibility of promoting prayer instead of partying, work instead of idleness, and sacrifice instead of resentment of what gets in the way of indulgence. 

The current President has 230 thousand deaths (and counting) on his hands, and he sees nothing wrong with his incompetence and negligence. We have nothing to show for this. We have liberated no concentration camps or plantations. We are not striking back at a demonic enemy.

[Eric the Green]

The Barrett Court is positioning itself to give Trump the presidency

https://www.newsmax.com/politics/supreme.../id/994083

[pbrower2a]

Should we end up with a rigged election for President, then we might have the Union dissolve so that people have chances to live in democratic republics We don't need any stinking "First Galactic Empire", "First American Reich", or "Corporate States of America".

[David Horn]

(10-27-2020, 11:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2020, 08:05 AM)David Horn Wrote: Today, the GOP is the problem. Its been the problem for a long time.  The Dems are a problem too, but a smaller one.  The GOP has been in bed with big business since the day it was formed. Big business doesn't need an advocate.  Everyone else does -- especially lower paid employees everywhere.  I know you feel that the GOP represents you, but putting yourself in the same class with the known problem will be a net negative in the future -- one you might not escape.

Expect a higher minimum wage, major tax increases and tighter regulation.  All are overdue.

Dude, if you lived in New York or California, you'd already have and would already be feeling the impacts of legislating a higher minimum wage, years of legislating higher taxes and imposing  tighter regulations. It's a race to the bottom and the Democrats are winning the race. You can expect America to pullout of the race and depart with most of the country before they hit rock bottom.

Try selling things to people with no money like they do in so much of your "America".  The economy is a virtuous cycle, and that means it needs to be fed from the bottom up.

[Classic-Xer]

(10-28-2020, 11:39 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(10-27-2020, 11:55 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(10-20-2020, 08:05 AM)David Horn Wrote: Today, the GOP is the problem. Its been the problem for a long time.  The Dems are a problem too, but a smaller one.  The GOP has been in bed with big business since the day it was formed. Big business doesn't need an advocate.  Everyone else does -- especially lower paid employees everywhere.  I know you feel that the GOP represents you, but putting yourself in the same class with the known problem will be a net negative in the future -- one you might not escape.

Expect a higher minimum wage, major tax increases and tighter regulation.  All are overdue.

Dude, if you lived in New York or California, you'd already have and would already be feeling the impacts of legislating a higher minimum wage, years of legislating  higher taxes and imposing  tighter regulations. It's a race to the bottom and the Democrats are winning the race. You can expect America to pullout of the race  and depart with most of the country before they hit rock bottom.

Your assumption that Humanity is driven only by its greed, lusts, and appetites (Homo oeconomicus) has failed. If I get any Christmas presents this year, then I will probably get them on-line as giver or recipient. Trump really fcuked things up,  and we may have to endure a harder and more complete lockdown this coming winter just to stop COVID-19. That is the lockdown that America should have had as a whole, one not compromised for commercial events and predictable festivities. Halloween, election-day celebrations, Thanksgiving, Christmas, and New Years' Day celebrations.... maybe college bowl games... are next. Then the Super Bowl. 

230,000 people have died in America so far.  Would you like a city the size of Richmond, Virginia or of Boise, Idaho to be wiped off the map? That is the demographic equivalent of the lethal toll of COVID-19 so far: over 230,000.

We have now surpassed the total military casualties of the Union side in the American Civil War. (218,222).  In roughly six months we are on a pace to reach the US combat death numbers of World War II... around Christmas. OK, maybe Inauguration Day if things aren't quite as swift.  Our President has been appeasing an enemy that has already attacked America, killing about 230,000 people in this country, and he has done little or even counterproductive things against an insidious enemy.  To be sure, the Civil War involved a far smaller population of Americans, and the total does not include Confederate deaths... but at least America freed the slaves of the Confederates and the Nazis in the Civil War and World War II. What do we have to show? A President who acts more as a defeatist than as the great leader that Lincoln or FDR was.    

America is in a Crisis Era, and good leadership would be acting much more like Lincoln or FDR -- or perhaps even Obama -- in a time like this. 

President Biden (he will be President barring catastrophic electoral fraud of the sort that nullifies votes or otherwise falsifies the results) will have his work cut out for him. Trump has pushed his swinishness upon as many people as he possibly could. That is difficult to remove from people. Don't try to convince me that Donald Trump is anything other than a catastrophic failure. He had te possibility of promoting prayer instead of partying, work instead of idleness, and sacrifice instead of resentment of what gets in the way of indulgence. 

The current President has 230 thousand deaths (and counting) on his hands, and he sees nothing wrong with his incompetence and negligence. We have nothing to show for this. We have liberated no concentration camps or plantations. We are not striking back at a demonic enemy.

I hope you aren't foolish enough to believe that Biden has the power to snap his fingers and make COVID go away the moment he's sworn in. Gee, we could do the same as you're doing now ( acting like a mindless political hack) and blame everything related to COVID on Biden and do it in a way that makes it stick.

[Bob Butler 54]

(10-31-2020, 12:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I hope you aren't foolish enough to believe that Biden has the power to snap his fingers and make COVID go away the moment he's sworn in. Gee, we could do the same as you're doing now ( acting like a mindless political hack) and blame everything related to COVID on Biden and do it in a way that makes it stick.

I am more worried that the reds will continue to be selfish, and put themselves ahead of the community. I suspect it will become clear that the majority favor fighting the bug with precautions such as masks and distancing. At least some will refuse these precautions, and continue the red policy of negligent homicide.

Make blaming the Democrats for Trump's policies? I doubt that would stick.

[Eric the Green]

(10-31-2020, 05:02 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(10-31-2020, 12:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I hope you aren't foolish enough to believe that Biden has the power to snap his fingers and make COVID go away the moment he's sworn in. Gee, we could do the same as you're doing now ( acting like a mindless political hack) and blame everything related to COVID on Biden and do it in a way that makes it stick.

I am more worried that the reds will continue to be selfish, and put themselves ahead of the community.  I suspect it will become clear that the majority favor fighting the bug with precautions such as masks and distancing.  At least some will refuse these precautions, and continue the red policy of negligent homicide.

Make blaming the Democrats for Trump's policies?  I doubt that would stick.

Classic has a point, and I thought I posted an article about this here, but maybe not. It's hard to find posts here.

And Bob's point is also valid. The problem is that Classic's culture has been so enhanced by their dear leader that it will be hard to counteract, and those in the Trump culture will certainly blame Biden for whatever happens, and are likely not to heed his advice or even take the vaccine because it is Biden offering it. And if Trump is not in jail, he will be out there leading the charge.

I am somewhat more optimistic than the writer below. I think there's a chance for Biden's plan to work to an extent. But to really work, masks and the other measures, perhaps including vaccines if they are really safe and effective, would have to be mandated and enforced, and the Trump culture would resist. Here's the article:

Biden's biggest problem is that there is no vaccine for Trumpism

Biden's presidency won't suddenly cure COVID because Trump has helped to create a whole culture of resistance to COVID-19 regulations.

by Christian Schneider, Opinion columnist
https://www.usatoday.com/story/opinion/2...748453001/



As the 2020 presidential election hurls itself at us, there is one thing upon which the far right and far left agree: The COVID-19 pandemic should be over within days after Nov. 4.

The right says the “deep state” is holding on to a secret vaccine that it will introduce to the world once Donald Trump is thrown out of office. The left says that Trump is the primary cause of the virus’ spread, and that with the biological weapon in chief out of office, people will soon be out safely ingesting each other’s disgusting germs.

Alas, despite these extremes being so far out there that they meet again in the back, neither is right. Trump is not entirely to blame for the virus’ spread, and Joe Biden’s election will not be a panacea in stopping it.

Biden's plan won't be effective

Sure, Biden has a “plan” to solve COVID-19, and it contains all the commonsense proposals: vaccine funding, paid leave, more protective equipment and more funding for testing.

But America is past the “I have a plan” phase. A sizable contingent of regular citizens have decided either that the disease is a “hoax,” or that it’s not worth altering their everyday lives for in any major way.

In other words, COVID-19 is a cultural problem, not a governmental one.

It is the cultural component in which Trump has failed America the most. Over the summer, it appeared the virus was waning — businesses had quickly ramped up production of masks and ventilators needed in hospitals and emergency rooms and limited state shutdowns were being enforced. Infection rates were dropping around the country.

Then, in the wake of the death of Minneapolis man George Floyd’s at the hands of police, hundreds of thousands of people took to the streets to protest, effectively signaling the end of lockdowns. Science professionals who urged staying home were silent on the protests, leading those on the right to throw up their hands and say, “Well, I guess lockdown is over.”

That is where Trump’s mismanagement has cost America. In the early days of the virus, Trump said all the wrong things, telling Americans it was just “one person coming in from China” and it would “disappear one day, it’s like a miracle.” And speaking of miracles, he vowed to have churches open for Easter.

Say we were to give Trump some benefit of the doubt — in the early months of the spread, everyone was still figuring out what was happening, and rapid spread would have occurred under any president.

But that leeway evaporated later in the year, when Trump began to actively downplay the virus’ dangers, promising to “open up” America.

As the summer wore on, Trump continued to pitch fake cures like hydroxychloroquine, promising people there would be a vaccine by Election Day. Commensurately, his supporters proceeded to behave as if there was nothing to fear, even attending packed Trump rallies in which hardly anyone wore a mask.

Thus, the country fell into a dangerous cycle — enough people didn’t obey commonsense rules, so the virus spread, leading more people to believe those rules didn’t actually do any good, causing even more people to disregard the rules. All the while, Trump has been telling Americans the country had turned the corner, even as he himself contracted the virus.

And if the former vice president were to win, how would he correct all this? He won’t.

All the people who say wearing a mask is a government mind control plot are far less likely to wear one if it’s Biden making the demand. For these people, it’s not about health or safety but personal freedom — no mask mandate or social distancing regulation is going to infringe on the Trump-era personas they have adopted.

While Biden can cook up all the anti-COVID plans he wants, there is only so much government can accomplish if enough citizens reject enforcement. The rapidly increasing number of people who are dying do so quietly, away from the cameras. They just vanish, leading people to believe that the danger is ephemeral — and Trump’s supporters respond in kind. That culture will remain alive.

Unless Biden can legislate trust in the media and politicians, the pandemic will stretch well into his presidency. The reality is a sizable portion of America is carrying on, waiting for a vaccine — which, ironically, many of them won’t take because it will probably be Joe Biden at the helm of the country when it is released.

And sadly, there is no vaccine for Trumpism.

Christian Schneider, who lives in Madison, Wisconsin, is a senior reporter at The College Fix and author of “1916: The Blog.” Follow him on Twitter: @Schneider_CM