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(03-08-2017, 07:52 PM)Odin Wrote: Murray's career is based in racist pseudoscience, he has no ideas worth giving a platform for.
OK, there Odin. How about special snowflakes? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...... I tell ya what, if some black block Ninja tries to punch me, I'm gonna run after them, tackle them, and start wailing punches on them. It's gonna hurt 'em bad. Fucking skinny ninja's. I've seen them. Rag's is a stocky dude. If I get pissed off with some Ninja sucker punch attempt. Here's what I'll do. I'll get in touch with my inner Viking and run up to said Ninja, tackle said Ninja and start wailing on him into a bloody mess. I'll enjoy every fucking moment. It's like traveling back to Jr/high school. Let me tell you this. If some ninja attempts that on me, I'll fucking bust his ass. He'll be crying for the cops before it's done. Like my ancestors, I take no prisoners. Enough is enough  Trust me, I've had lots of practice. I've even shoved idiots through school windows. Get it!? If that don't work, I'll take some pepper spray, run after a Ninja, catch said Ninja, tackle the Ninja, and empty the pepper spray on him. No quarters taken, get it! You go off spouting on platforms. Look, Odin, you've gone too far. Murray should have been given a platform in the name of free speech. I fucking hate lefty cultural Marxists! OK!
---Value Added 
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(03-08-2017, 07:52 PM)Odin Wrote: Murray's career is based in racist pseudoscience, he has no ideas worth giving a platform for.
Really? BA from Harvard, PhD from MIT ("deeply respected institutions"), and his most controversial book, The Bell Curve, which only marginally touched on the issue of race as opposed to IQ differences more broadly, was the subject of a special task force by the American Psychological Association, which broadly upheld his findings, only stating that there is no evidence for supposing a genetic component to the 1SD difference between black and white IQ scores in the US. All this, despite the intense political controversy surrounding them, and the overall replicability issues the psychological community is experiencing.
As Steven Pinker (another no-name pseudoscientist, no doubt) points out:
Quote:Irony: Replicability crisis in psych DOESN'T apply to IQ: huge n's, replicable results. But people hate the message.
And he wasn't even there to talk about the Bell Curve. Instead, he wanted to talk about Coming Apart, which specifically addressed only white communities. Not to mention that he was there at the invitation of Middlebury College, and it was a professor there, and not Murray, who ended up being assaulted.
Let's look at Popper again:
Quote:Less well known is the paradox of tolerance: Unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them. — In this formulation, I do not imply, for instance, that we should always suppress the utterance of intolerant philosophies; as long as we can counter them by rational argument and keep them in check by public opinion, suppression would certainly be unwise. But we should claim the right to suppress them if necessary even by force; for it may easily turn out that they are not prepared to meet us on the level of rational argument, but begin by denouncing all argument; they may forbid their followers to listen to rational argument, because it is deceptive, and teach them to answer arguments by the use of their fists or pistols. We should therefore claim, in the name of tolerance, the right not to tolerate the intolerant. We should claim that any movement preaching intolerance places itself outside the law, and we should consider incitement to intolerance and persecution as criminal, in the same way as we should consider incitement to murder, or to kidnapping, or to the revival of the slave trade, as criminal.”
Now tell me, was he talking about the right of the Left to suppress people on the Right, or the right of believers in free speech and rational discourse to stop people preaching the suppression of opposing viewpoints? Who, in this case, refused to listen to rational argument, on the grounds of it being deceptive, and chose instead to answer it with their fists?
I'm disappointed in you. In the college thread on the other board, you condemned these sorts of behaviors, and said only that they were not representative of the Left more broadly. Here we have a riot, where a (probably liberal) professor was assaulted and injured, and your only comment is to insist on "no platform"?
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I wasn't justifying the rioting, that was wrong, but at the same time the college had no obligation to let him speak on their grounds.
IIRC the reason *The Bell Curve* caused such outrage is because it completely ignored systemic racism in favor of the Right's favorite talking points, indicating that Murray is a propagandist hack, never mind the the common opinion that outright rejects IQ as a valid measure of intelligence and the concept of intelligence being a singular g factor.
#MakeTheDemocratsGreatAgain
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Quote:I wasn't justifying the rioting, that was wrong
Was it? You didn't even see fit to mention it earlier.
Quote:but at the same time the college had no obligation to let him speak on their grounds.
The college invited him. Should the college not be allowed to do that?
Quote:IIRC the reason *The Bell Curve* caused such outrage is because it completely ignored systemic racism in favor of the Right's favorite talking points, indicating that Murray is a propagandist hack, never mind the the common opinion that outright rejects IQ as a valid measure of intelligence and the concept of intelligence being a singular g factor.
I'm sorry, I don't share your belief system, so could you unpack this for me a little more? Where does systemic racism fit in here? Why did the APA uphold most of his results? If IQ is so widely rejected, where did that quote from Pinker come from? I know you like his Better Angels of Our Nature, so it isn't like he's some marginal figure.
Seriously, do you really divide all ideas into Right/Left and think cold & prickly/warm & fuzzy things about them accordingly?
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03-10-2017, 03:07 PM
(This post was last modified: 03-10-2017, 03:18 PM by Mikebert.)
(03-09-2017, 10:56 AM)Odin Wrote: I wasn't justifying the rioting, that was wrong, but at the same time the college had no obligation to let him speak on their grounds.
IIRC the reason *The Bell Curve* caused such outrage is because it completely ignored systemic racism in favor of the Right's favorite talking points, indicating that Murray is a propagandist hack, never mind the the common opinion that outright rejects IQ as a valid measure of intelligence and the concept of intelligence being a singular g factor.
Did you read Bell Curve Odin? Did you Some Guy? I did.
The error Murray made was subtle. He assumed that IQ correlates with the general perception of intelligence for humans as a whole. It's a perfectly reasonable assumption, its just quite obviously wrong empirically. Because of the taboo on this topic, nobody studies this. The reason for this, I believe is not political correctness, but rather class-based.
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(03-10-2017, 03:07 PM)Mikebert Wrote: (03-09-2017, 10:56 AM)Odin Wrote: I wasn't justifying the rioting, that was wrong, but at the same time the college had no obligation to let him speak on their grounds.
IIRC the reason *The Bell Curve* caused such outrage is because it completely ignored systemic racism in favor of the Right's favorite talking points, indicating that Murray is a propagandist hack, never mind the the common opinion that outright rejects IQ as a valid measure of intelligence and the concept of intelligence being a singular g factor.
Did you read Bell Curve Odin? Did you Some Guy? If so what was your take?
I have not. I am in fact sufficiently embarrassed by that fact (in light of my participation in this thread) that I went out and bought Coming Apart, and the Bell Curve should be arriving at my B & N next week, though I won't have the cash to buy it until Friday.
So, give me about a week and a half and I'll let you know.
PS
Have not forgotten about the other thread, just haven't been at home long enough to take down my copy of LSWP and cite the relevant graphs. Unfortunately, the Google Books version does not include that section of the book.
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