Which founding father are you most like?

[Ragnarök_62]

(04-26-2017, 10:34 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: John Adams:

Quote:You are the brains behind the throne! Unassuming, quiet, and industrious, your talents and contributions tend to be overlooked and the glory goes to your more flamboyant and attention-seeking colleagues. You believe strongly in traditional family values. Your natural shyness means that you prefer to work behind the scenes, but you do occasionally become paranoid that others are stealing the credit for your work. You are a courageous and generous person who believes strongly in traditional family values, but you often find yourself distanced from those you love due to your commitment to your work.

Not an idealist, but I'm okay with a reactive.  Reasonable accuracy in the description.

IOW, you're a Jonser then. Likewise, I'm okay with being a Prophet. It goes both ways in the Jones zone.

[Ragnarök_62]

(03-08-2017, 02:01 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-08-2017, 12:57 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yeah, I am strongly considering taking another extended "break", once I wrap up a couple of conversations.  There is little intelligent conversation taking place here.

There's been a severe degradation of the conversation level since the old forum was taken down.  The Regeneracy hasn't helped either.  I think a lot of people here were expecting something other than what happened.  

Mostly what I see here is the same old Boomers beating their same old dead horses.  I'm not surprised really about that though.  I think with a few exceptions they haven't had an original thought in their head since they burned out their last brain cell in the 70s.

The remaining Xers are all fairly intelligent hence why I periodically check in.  Also I'm interested in the development of Generation Z (for lack of a better term, since I never liked Homelander).  It seems that they are socially libertarian and fiscally conservative.

And I even have some hope for the Millies here.  They will either recognize that identity politics applies to everyone or no one.

If it is the later the oppression Olympics become total bullshit (which they always were), if the former then space must be made for white identitarian and straight identitarian politics.

Kinser, my friend. Here's the scoop. For each action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. GUFU [grand unified force of the universe ] states it so.  I dunno if I'm a Boomer/Nomad to be honest. I think I sort of flit from one gen to another. I'll be the first to admit that my home decade is the 1970's. I'm either a young Boomer or old X'er.  If you're a cusper and I think you're a X/Millie cusper myself, FWIW.  Wrt, "identity politics, the whole scene is lame, ' case cause most folks here already know, I'm a "Euro-MENA-Native-American", man.  I have all of the "cred". I love it when Milo lampoons political correctness.  So, am I a X'er in your view or a weirded out Boomer who has a penchant for weed or a Nomad wrt trouble making? OTHH, am I a Prophet who exalts the green agenda? As for the ultimate agenda, I do support the breaking of eggs to make an omelet. I'm a cusper , like you. I also agree with you that identity politics is useless.

[pbrower2a]

(03-08-2017, 02:01 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-08-2017, 12:57 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yeah, I am strongly considering taking another extended "break", once I wrap up a couple of conversations.  There is little intelligent conversation taking place here.

There's been a severe degradation of the conversation level since the old forum was taken down.  The Regeneracy hasn't helped either.  I think a lot of people here were expecting something other than what happened.

It's not a regeneracy if a majority rejects it. The rise of Donald Trump would be a regeneracy if we had Americans giving more than reigned acceptance. "Wait 'til 2018" and "Wait 'til 2020" are not expressions of a Regeneracy. The next President (unless Mike Pence through the death, resignation, or disability of Trump) will bring about the Regeneracy. A Regeneracy might exist even if it is evil, as with Hitler.

Quote:Mostly what I see here is the same old Boomers beating their same old dead horses.  I'm not surprised really about that though.  I think with a few exceptions they haven't had an original thought in their head since they burned out their last brain cell in the 70s.

Boomers are not the majority on this Forum.  Does the AARP have Forums?

Quote:The remaining Xers are all fairly intelligent hence why I periodically check in.  Also I'm interested in the development of Generation Z (for lack of a better term, since I never liked Homelander).  It seems that they are socially libertarian and fiscally conservative.

As a True Believer, Viktor Ippolitovich Komarovsky, you aren't the sort that Adaptive/Artist/New Silent will like.

Quote:And I even have some hope for the Millies here.  They will either recognize that identity politics applies to everyone or no one.

"I am white" is the least-valid manifestation of identity politics in America. There are plenty of white losers, and voting for Donald Trump shows them as such. Middle-class blacks generally seek to elevate poor blacks, and middle-class Hispanics seek to elevate poor Hispanics.  Middle-class white people generally do little for poor whites.

Quote: If it is the later the oppression Olympics become total bullshit (which they always were), if the former then space must be made for white identitarian and straight identitarian politics.

Let's all work to end oppression of any kind, including the genuine oppression (some of it self-inflicted) of poor white people whom our system has served badly. Some of the poorest communities in America are lily-white. Middle-class blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are not oppressed people in America.

[Kinser79]

(04-26-2017, 11:46 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-08-2017, 02:01 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-08-2017, 12:57 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yeah, I am strongly considering taking another extended "break", once I wrap up a couple of conversations.  There is little intelligent conversation taking place here.

There's been a severe degradation of the conversation level since the old forum was taken down.  The Regeneracy hasn't helped either.  I think a lot of people here were expecting something other than what happened.  

Mostly what I see here is the same old Boomers beating their same old dead horses.  I'm not surprised really about that though.  I think with a few exceptions they haven't had an original thought in their head since they burned out their last brain cell in the 70s.

The remaining Xers are all fairly intelligent hence why I periodically check in.  Also I'm interested in the development of Generation Z (for lack of a better term, since I never liked Homelander).  It seems that they are socially libertarian and fiscally conservative.

And I even have some hope for the Millies here.  They will either recognize that identity politics applies to everyone or no one.

If it is the later the oppression Olympics become total bullshit (which they always were), if the former then space must be made for white identitarian and straight identitarian politics.

Kinser, my friend. Here's the scoop. For each action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. GUFU [grand unified force of the universe ] states it so.  I dunno if I'm a Boomer/Nomad to be honest. I think I sort of flit from one gen to another. I'll be the first to admit that my home decade is the 1970's. I'm either a young Boomer or old X'er.  If you're a cusper and I think you're a X/Millie cusper myself, FWIW.  Wrt, "identity politics, the whole scene is lame, ' case cause most folks here already know, I'm a "Euro-MENA-Native-American", man.  I have all of the "cred". I love it when Milo lampoons political correctness.  So, am I a X'er in your view or a weirded out Boomer who has a penchant for weed or a Nomad wrt trouble making? OTHH, am I a Prophet who exalts the green agenda? As for the ultimate agenda, I do support the breaking of eggs to make an omelet. I'm a cusper , like you. I also agree with you that identity politics is useless.

I took an other extended break from the forum, and will likely be posting infrequently from here on out really.  I would say you're a early wave Xer Rags.  The way I break down the generations is pretty simple. 

Boomers remember JFK assignation but don't remember VJ day.
Xers Remember Challenger but not JFK
Millies remember 9-11 but not Challenger
Zeds (or Generation Z if you prefer) remember the crash of 08 but don't remember 9-11 (or if they do their recollection is extremely vague young childhood memories)

As you were all of a maximum age of 1 on 22 November 1963 you cannot be a boomer.  I would say your prophet tendencies are a result of being on the cusp, and personal experiences which the theory cannot account for.  S&H theory like Assimov's Psychohistory only really works on the mass level, with a preference for those masses being ignorant of its operation.

[Kinser79]

(04-27-2017, 07:51 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(04-26-2017, 11:46 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-08-2017, 02:01 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-08-2017, 12:57 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Yeah, I am strongly considering taking another extended "break", once I wrap up a couple of conversations.  There is little intelligent conversation taking place here.

There's been a severe degradation of the conversation level since the old forum was taken down.  The Regeneracy hasn't helped either.  I think a lot of people here were expecting something other than what happened.  

Mostly what I see here is the same old Boomers beating their same old dead horses.  I'm not surprised really about that though.  I think with a few exceptions they haven't had an original thought in their head since they burned out their last brain cell in the 70s.

The remaining Xers are all fairly intelligent hence why I periodically check in.  Also I'm interested in the development of Generation Z (for lack of a better term, since I never liked Homelander).  It seems that they are socially libertarian and fiscally conservative.

And I even have some hope for the Millies here.  They will either recognize that identity politics applies to everyone or no one.

If it is the later the oppression Olympics become total bullshit (which they always were), if the former then space must be made for white identitarian and straight identitarian politics.

Kinser, my friend. Here's the scoop. For each action, there's an equal and opposite reaction. GUFU [grand unified force of the universe ] states it so.  I dunno if I'm a Boomer/Nomad to be honest. I think I sort of flit from one gen to another. I'll be the first to admit that my home decade is the 1970's. I'm either a young Boomer or old X'er.  If you're a cusper and I think you're a X/Millie cusper myself, FWIW.  Wrt, "identity politics, the whole scene is lame, ' case cause most folks here already know, I'm a "Euro-MENA-Native-American", man.  I have all of the "cred". I love it when Milo lampoons political correctness.  So, am I a X'er in your view or a weirded out Boomer who has a penchant for weed or a Nomad wrt trouble making? OTHH, am I a Prophet who exalts the green agenda? As for the ultimate agenda, I do support the breaking of eggs to make an omelet. I'm a cusper , like you. I also agree with you that identity politics is useless.

As much as there were some stereotypes of Xers being a bunch of coke snorting, beer guzzling anti-hippies with the fashy hairdos ... in reality ... weed ruled. Especially during the 80s.

Actually when it comes to fashy hairdos Xers have nothing on the Zeds.  There have been local calls for the schools to attempt to ban the undercut hair style due to the fact that it is sometimes referred to as the "Hitler Youth" hair cut, and is sported by some prominent figures in white identitarian circles, such as Richard Spencer.  Of course then again the local school system seems to pride itself on the razor wire around its schools.  You know for "student safety".

If anything it isn't the Xers who are the anti-hippies, there has always been a contingent of Xers (I have never been one of them though) which are hippie try hards, but rather the children of those Xers.  Come the 2T I expect that we will see major reversals of trends established by Silents and Boomers.  Remember the Prophets are at most the foot soldiers in the 2Ts the leadership is almost always and without exception Artist.

As for marijuana:

[Kinser79]

(04-28-2017, 10:29 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: It's not a regeneracy if a majority rejects it. The rise of Donald Trump would be a regeneracy if we had Americans giving more than reigned acceptance. "Wait 'til 2018" and "Wait 'til 2020" are not expressions of a Regeneracy. The next President (unless Mike Pence through the death, resignation, or disability of Trump) will bring about the Regeneracy. A Regeneracy might exist even if it is evil, as with Hitler.

Boomers are not the majority on this Forum.  Does the AARP have Forums?


As a True Believer, Viktor Ippolitovich Komarovsky, you aren't the sort that Adaptive/Artist/New Silent will like.

"I am white" is the least-valid manifestation of identity politics in America. There are plenty of white losers, and voting for Donald Trump shows them as such. Middle-class blacks generally seek to elevate poor blacks, and middle-class Hispanics seek to elevate poor Hispanics.  Middle-class white people generally do little for poor whites.

Let's all work to end oppression of any kind, including the genuine oppression (some of it self-inflicted) of poor white people whom our system has served badly. Some of the poorest communities in America are lily-white. Middle-class blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are not oppressed people in America.

1.  2018 is an off year election.  The hopes for the Democratic party is not good unless the President seriously fucks up.  I don't foresee that happening so I expect the GOP to hold the house and pick up a few seats in the Senate.  Who is on the out is the anti-Trump GOPers.

2.  I wouldn't know.  Nor do I particularly care.  Perhaps you could check it out and report back to us.  Besides I'm not eligible to even join them for an other 10 years anyway.  One has to be a minimum of 50 so I have a few years to go yet.

3.  I think you'll be surprised.  There are strong trends for them to be headed toward fiscal responsibility and social conservatism.  The Zeds are not called "The most conservative generation in 70 years" for nothing.  As for the generation itself liking me, I don't really care, and I doubt you have the capacity to accurately assess what they will or will not care for.

4.  Incorrect.  If we are to have a politics based on identity, and an identity based upon race no less, then having a white identity is as valid as having a black one or latino one.  (Hispanic is a linguistic designation not a racial one.)  As I said, we must determine if we have idenity politics for all or for none.  If it is the former, then the likes of Jared Taylor, Richard Spencer and David Duke have a right to a seat at the table.  If it is for no one, then Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton need to shut the hell up.  (Which they should do anyway.)

For the record I'm of the belief that there shouldn't be identity politics for anyone. 

5.  I would argue that there aren't any oppressed groups in the US at all.  If we took every black out of the country and gave them their own space with all their wealth intact.  And remember this is just 13% or so of the population, then that new country would have the 20th largest economy in the world and a per capita GDP on par with Italy (which is hardly a third world shit hole).  In short the richest blacks in the world live in the US.

I'm willing to gamble that the same would be true of Latinos as well, though they are a larger percentage of the population and generally have more capital than blacks do.

[The Wonkette]

(07-20-2017, 11:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I took an other extended break from the forum, and will likely be posting infrequently from here on out really.  I would say you're a early wave Xer Rags.  The way I break down the generations is pretty simple. 

Boomers remember JFK assignation but don't remember VJ day.
Xers Remember Challenger but not JFK
Millies remember 9-11 but not Challenger
Zeds (or Generation Z if you prefer) remember the crash of 08 but don't remember 9-11 (or if they do their recollection is extremely vague young childhood memories)

As you were all of a maximum age of 1 on 22 November 1963 you cannot be a boomer.  I would say your prophet tendencies are a result of being on the cusp, and personal experiences which the theory cannot account for.  S&H theory like Assimov's Psychohistory only really works on the mass level, with a preference for those masses being ignorant of its operation.

I'm with you until you get to the Homelanders, or as you call them, Zeds (I love that term, by the way).

Since there was only 7 years between 9/11 and the crash of 2008, you have a 7-year generation. You are describing a cusp, similar to that of the Jonesers, not a real generation.

But yes, Rags is absolutely an early wave Gen-Xer, with a few Prophet streaks, being a cusper.

[pbrower2a]

(07-20-2017, 11:44 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(04-28-2017, 10:29 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: It's not a regeneracy if a majority rejects it. The rise of Donald Trump would be a regeneracy if we had Americans giving more than reigned acceptance. "Wait 'til 2018" and "Wait 'til 2020" are not expressions of a Regeneracy. The next President (unless Mike Pence through the death, resignation, or disability of Trump) will bring about the Regeneracy. A Regeneracy might exist even if it is evil, as with Hitler.

Boomers are not the majority on this Forum.  Does the AARP have Forums?


As a True Believer, Viktor Ippolitovich Komarovsky, you aren't the sort that Adaptive/Artist/New Silent will like.

"I am white" is the least-valid manifestation of identity politics in America. There are plenty of white losers, and voting for Donald Trump shows them as such. Middle-class blacks generally seek to elevate poor blacks, and middle-class Hispanics seek to elevate poor Hispanics.  Middle-class white people generally do little for poor whites.

Let's all work to end oppression of any kind, including the genuine oppression (some of it self-inflicted) of poor white people whom our system has served badly. Some of the poorest communities in America are lily-white. Middle-class blacks, Hispanics, and Asians are not oppressed people in America.

1.  2018 is an off year election.  The hopes for the Democratic party is not good unless the President seriously fucks up.  I don't foresee that happening so I expect the GOP to hold the house and pick up a few seats in the Senate.  Who is on the out is the anti-Trump GOPers.

2006 was also an off-year election, and it signaled at the least an abortive Regeneracy that would culminate in the first two years of the Obama Administration. In six months, Donald Trump has f---ed up more than Dubya did in six years I don't see him convincing Americans that he has an appropriate answer to America's problems. Just look at the recent disapproval numbers for President Trump in New Hampshire (his barest loss),  Michigan, and Pennsylvania (two of his barest wins. In those states the President's disapproval ratings are 60, 61, and 62 percent. Such indicates a basic loss of trust by his marginal voters and a failure to win support among those who barely chose to not vote for him. If he were half-way effective, his approval ratings would be near 60. In two states that he won by high single digits (Iowa and Texas) his disapproval ratings are in the low 50s.

An effective President who just barely won election is usually slowly losing support from a honeymoon advantage and has consolidated solid support even in some states that he lost. At that, Donald Trump is not John F. Kennedy.


Disapproval ratings:




navy under 40
blue 40-43
light blue 44-47
white 48 or 49
pink 50-54
red 55-59
maroon 60 or higher

* favorability

...2. not an interesting or controversial response.

Quote:3.  I think you'll be surprised.  There are strong trends for them to be headed toward fiscal responsibility and social conservatism.  The Zeds are not called "The most conservative generation in 70 years" for nothing.  As for the generation itself liking me, I don't really care, and I doubt you have the capacity to accurately assess what they will or will not care for.

Young Artist generations are conformist -- not conservative.  They will conform to the political and economic realities of the time in which they live, and will follow along with the endorsement of successes and rejections of failure. As has happened in some nations in their Crises, one 'wave of the future' can lose all credibility very fast.

Besides, the meaning of 'conservatism' could change dramatically. The black, Asian, and Hispanic middle classes seem very conservative in cultural values, and their ways (if successful) could redefine what constitutes conservatism in America.  

Quote:4.  Incorrect.  If we are to have a politics based on identity, and an identity based upon race no less, then having a white identity is as valid as having a black one or latino one.  (Hispanic is a linguistic designation not a racial one.)  As I said, we must determine if we have idenity politics for all or for none.  If it is the former, then the likes of Jared Taylor, Richard Spencer and David Duke have a right to a seat at the table.  If it is for no one, then Jessie Jackson and Al Sharpton need to shut the hell up.  (Which they should do anyway.)

For the record I'm of the belief that there shouldn't be identity politics for anyone. 

It is the Right that has established the polarization of American political life on 'cultural' identity.

Quote:5.  I would argue that there aren't any oppressed groups in the US at all.  If we took every black out of the country and gave them their own space with all their wealth intact.  And remember this is just 13% or so of the population, then that new country would have the 20th largest economy in the world and a per capita GDP on par with Italy (which is hardly a third world shit hole).  In short the richest blacks in the world live in the US.

I'm willing to gamble that the same would be true of Latinos as well, though they are a larger percentage of the population and generally have more capital than blacks do.

I consider white people in the Mountain South generally about as oppressed as blacks were in big Northern cities in the 1960s. Statistically one is better off as 'black' in Maryland  than being 'white' in West Virginia. But northern blacks resisted oppression and often escaped it through genuine achievement; statistically, white people in the Mountain South have been hurting themselves with under-education and opiate use.

[Kinser79]

(07-20-2017, 12:37 PM)The Wonkette Wrote:

(07-20-2017, 11:14 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: I took an other extended break from the forum, and will likely be posting infrequently from here on out really.  I would say you're a early wave Xer Rags.  The way I break down the generations is pretty simple. 

Boomers remember JFK assignation but don't remember VJ day.
Xers Remember Challenger but not JFK
Millies remember 9-11 but not Challenger
Zeds (or Generation Z if you prefer) remember the crash of 08 but don't remember 9-11 (or if they do their recollection is extremely vague young childhood memories)

As you were all of a maximum age of 1 on 22 November 1963 you cannot be a boomer.  I would say your prophet tendencies are a result of being on the cusp, and personal experiences which the theory cannot account for.  S&H theory like Assimov's Psychohistory only really works on the mass level, with a preference for those masses being ignorant of its operation.

I'm with you until you get to the Homelanders, or as you call them, Zeds (I love that term, by the way).

Since there was only 7 years between 9/11 and the crash of 2008, you have a 7-year generation.  You are describing a cusp, similar to that of the Jonesers, not a real generation.

But yes, Rags is absolutely an early wave Gen-Xer, with a few Prophet streaks, being a cusper.  

The term "Zed" comes from the notion of calling them Generation Z.  "Zed" is the British name or the letter, and in all honesty sounds far better than "Zee", which itself is a Dutch word meaning a body of salt water.

I would say that that cusp is the one I have direct experience with.  I would say that most of the younger ones will not remember the crash of 08 (arguably the start of the 4T according to Howe, though I still stand by my Katrina thesis) I'm merely using that as a place holder.  Simply put the resolution of the 4T hasn't happened yet, and we won't know its happened until it has.  Using VJ day as an indicator, we can call that the end of the previous 4T.  I'd even call the JFK assination the end of the last 1T (though I would not say the same about Challenger as it really started close to the start of the late 3T--but it is my view that 3Ts have a tendency to behave oddly at times).

[Kinser79]

PBR Wrote:2006 was also an off-year election, and it signaled at the least an abortive Regeneracy that would culminate in the first two years of the Obama Administration

No.  The 2006 was a normal rejection of an unpopular president (W) and his particular brand.  A brand that the current Administration is having to deal with in Senate leadership.  Since I know you don't read conservative media, I won't go into it because simply put it is beyond your rational.  Like Eric you've got a tenuous, at best, contact with reality, so I'm not going to lower myself to engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Quote:Young Artist generations are conformist -- not conservative.  They will conform to the political and economic realities of the time in which they live, and will follow along with the endorsement of successes and rejections of failure. As has happened in some nations in their Crises, one 'wave of the future' can lose all credibility very fast.

Indeed that has already happened.  The SJW/Millie wing of the Left was considered to be the wave of the future.  They have made themselves into a joke and have been rejected.  Young Artists can conform in opposition to things they oppose just as much as they can conform to things they support.  We are dealing with humans after all, not mere machines.  Most humans, at least the non-prophet ones anyway, seem to have the ability to think for themselves and take up those roles and positions which benefit them the most.

Quote:Besides, the meaning of 'conservatism' could change dramatically. The black, Asian, and Hispanic middle classes seem very conservative in cultural values, and their ways (if successful) could redefine what constitutes conservatism in America.  

Indeed.  Many would call me a conservative now, but there is very little of the status quo I wish to preserve being a civic nationalist.  Also there isn't a "Hispanic" middle class as "Hispanic" is not a race.  A white man from Spain is as Hispanic as a black guy from Cuba as is a Mestizo from Mexico.  As such I'm going to take your use of the term "hispanic" to mean Latino which designates Mestizos from Latin America specifically.

Quote:It is the Right that has established the polarization of American political life on 'cultural' identity.

So it is the Right which has all the gay activists, the tranny activists, BLM, La Raza, and so forth?  Are you sure you want to go that route?

Even if one wanted to say that the right did start it, there is the HISTORICAL FACT that in 1860 no Republican owned a slave, and in 1930 no Republican supported segregation.  I strongly recommend watching Dinesh D'Souza's documentaries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillary%27...atic_Party

That one in particular.

Quote: I consider white people in the Mountain South generally about as oppressed as blacks were in big Northern cities in the 1960s.

Those white people would disagree with you.  And I also have news for you, the 1960s were over 50 years ago.  We have to deal with oppression, if there is any, that exists today.  To do otherwise will only devolve into a continuous whirlwind of racial rent seeking--which is precisely what the Leftist Oppression Olympics actually is.

Quote:Statistically one is better off as 'black' in Maryland  than being 'white' in West Virginia.

Statistically speaking one is better of being black in the US than they are being black in Zimbabwe.  The only thing you've noted is that Maryland has a higher per capita GDP than West Virginia.

Quote:But northern blacks resisted oppression and often escaped it through genuine achievement; statistically

No most northern blacks did not resist "oppression".  What they did is they got jobs, back when this country still had a rational economy and made things, and worked hard and saved their money and got ahead.

Quote:white people in the Mountain South have been hurting themselves with under-education and opiate use.

Addiction is a medial concern, this is exactly the same as blaming someone with polio for being paralyzed.  In the main the roots of opiate addiction in states like Kentucky and West Virginia (both places I've been, and I know you haven't been--because I leave my house and you don't leave yours) is related to the over prescription of those drugs to manage pain to those who worked in the coal industry.

The simple fact of the matter is addiction to opiates can happen to anyone.  Of course this is coming from someone who actively avoids using pharmaceuticals (though I regularly use marijuana medicinally--cannabutter (marijuana infused butter), nothing like it).

[pbrower2a]

(07-21-2017, 02:00 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

PBR Wrote:2006 was also an off-year election, and it signaled at the least an abortive Regeneracy that would culminate in the first two years of the Obama Administration

No.  The 2006 was a normal rejection of an unpopular president (W) and his particular brand.  A brand that the current Administration is having to deal with in Senate leadership.  Since I know you don't read conservative media, I won't go into it because simply put it is beyond your rational.  Like Eric you've got a tenuous, at best, contact with reality, so I'm not going to lower myself to engaging in a battle of wits with an unarmed person.

Quote:The media of Movement Conservatism are at best slick renditions of awful beliefs, devoid of wit and offering the same old stale solutions (promote the enrichment and indulgence of elites).

Yes, Dubya is unpopular and the cycle of history seemed to be moving away from tolerance for the degenerate behavior (bad politics, bad business, and bad culture tolerated solely for their profitability) . The Ri9ght proved in 2010 that nothing matters in American politics except the will of the economic elites and the gullibility of enough of the masses. In the end -- Donald trump, a man who represents everything wrong in America, even to the point of acting like a king in an absolute, elective monarchy.

Quote:

Quote:Young Artist generations are conformist -- not conservative.  They will conform to the political and economic realities of the time in which they live, and will follow along with the endorsement of successes and rejections of failure. As has happened in some nations in their Crises, one 'wave of the future' can lose all credibility very fast.

Indeed that has already happened.  The SJW/Millie wing of the Left was considered to be the wave of the future.  They have made themselves into a joke and have been rejected.  Young Artists can conform in opposition to things they oppose just as much as they can conform to things they support.  We are dealing with humans after all, not mere machines.  Most humans, at least the non-prophet ones anyway, seem to have the ability to think for themselves and take up those roles and positions which benefit them the most.

...and the corporatist Right, believers in the outmoded, vile ideology that comes from the most rapacious peole in the order deciding that the rest of Humanity has no role except to suffer in This World on behalf of elites in return for rewards in Heaven available only to those who accept plutocracy at its worst?

If the Silent and Progressives are any indication, then we will see them go from  a feather-my-nest mode of behavior to finding meaning in life, aligning themselves first with a Civic generation (GI) or one that ends up in a Civic  role (the Gilded) only to find younger Idealists (Missionaries and then Boomers) as fresh breezes of intellectual freedom. Then rather late they try to cadge together some attempt at making the best of all possible worlds.

I see a leader like Donald Trump as the sort who makes a rebellion a certainty for anyone who has a conscience and an intellect.His messaging is empty, banal, and limited. He is in no way an innovative thinker. His economic ideology is to make sure that the Right People get what they want and keep getting more no matter what that engenders. His managerial style is despotic.

His Presidency acts more like a royal court than like the Brain Trust of FDR.

Quote:

Quote:Besides, the meaning of 'conservatism' could change dramatically. The black, Asian, and Hispanic middle classes seem very conservative in cultural values, and their ways (if successful) could redefine what constitutes conservatism in America.  

Indeed.  Many would call me a conservative now, but there is very little of the status quo I wish to preserve being a civic nationalist.  Also there isn't a "Hispanic" middle class as "Hispanic" is not a race.  A white man from Spain is as Hispanic as a black guy from Cuba as is a Mestizo from Mexico.  As such I'm going to take your use of the term "hispanic" to mean Latino which designates Mestizos from Latin America specifically.

"Hispanic" is more about culture than about race. Hispanics can include stereotypical white people  (Spain is a European country), First Peoples (Mexican-Americans who look like the people depicted in Aztec reliefs, blacks, and every possible admixture. Hispanic populations can assimilate people not of Hispanic origin.

Quote:

Quote:It is the Right that has established the polarization of American political life on 'cultural' identity.

So it is the Right which has all the gay activists, the tranny activists, BLM, La Raza, and so forth?  Are you sure you want to go that route?

Even if one wanted to say that the right did start it, there is the HISTORICAL FACT that in 1860 no Republican owned a slave, and in 1930 no Republican supported segregation.  I strongly recommend watching Dinesh D'Souza's documentaries.

The Dixiecrat Democrats left the Democratic Party for the Republican Party (which in the 1960s was a joke in most of the South) and turned the Republican Party in the South into the vehicle of defense of white privilege as blacks started taking over the Democratic Party. The Dixiecrat reactionaries turned a regionally-minor party into their party. The Dixiecrats did not changed; they simply took over an institution and expanded its relevance.  

Dinesh D'Souza is a crank.

Quote:

Quote:I consider white people in the Mountain South generally about as oppressed as blacks were in big Northern cities in the 1960s.

Those white people would disagree with you.  And I also have news for you, the 1960s were over 50 years ago.  We have to deal with oppression, if there is any, that exists today.  To do otherwise will only devolve into a continuous whirlwind of racial rent seeking--which is precisely what the Leftist Oppression Olympics actually is.

Self-inflicted harm.  Gross under-investment in public health, education, and infrastructure -- that will get bad results no matter what the ethnic heritage. When the coal-mining industry dominated the local economy there were plenty of well-paying jobs, and the Democratic politicians in West Virginia could operate a bare-bones government with low taxes and few services,. Once those jobs vanished, all that remained was people who had to leave to improve their lives. Guess what is left!
,

Quote:

Quote:Statistically one is better off as 'black' in Maryland  than being 'white' in West Virginia.

Statistically speaking one is better of being black in the US than they are being black in Zimbabwe.  The only thing you've noted is that Maryland has a higher per capita GDP than West Virginia.

Which would you rather be? Middle-class blacks still face racism, but that is much more benign than having bad teeth, being overweight, and being grossly under-educated. But I am not the problem. I have a knack for sizing people up for intelligence and learning very quickly. All that I need do is listen for certain cues. Grammar and diction are obvious for a non-native speaker of English. So is a choice of topics of discussion, which allows me to assess the intelligence of people who have rudimentary understanding of English. There are people who can get more out of K-12 education than out of K-12 and a bachelor's degree, as is shown by some NFL stars who got through four years of college in snap courses despite marginal literacy.

Quote:

Quote:But northern blacks resisted oppression and often escaped it through genuine achievement; statistically

No most northern blacks did not resist "oppression".  What they did is they got jobs, back when this country still had a rational economy and made things, and worked hard and saved their money and got ahead.

Quote:white people in the Mountain South have been hurting themselves with under-education and opiate use.

Addiction is a medial concern, this is exactly the same as blaming someone with polio for being paralyzed.  In the main the roots of opiate addiction in states like Kentucky and West Virginia (both places I've been, and I know you haven't been--because I leave my house and you don't leave yours) is related to the over prescription of those drugs to manage pain to those who worked in the coal industry.

The simple fact of the matter is addiction to opiates can happen to anyone.  Of course this is coming from someone who actively avoids using pharmaceuticals (though I regularly use marijuana medicinally--cannabutter (marijuana infused butter), nothing like it).

U-N-I-O-N-S. Strong, militant, welfare-oriented unions ensured that someone who did a labor job for a giant employer could not be underpaid just for being black. Now that unions are practically dead, we have economic elites who treat everyone not among them very badly.

.........

By the way -- I was in Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina in April. Key attractions were Mammoth Cave and Great Smoky Mountains National Park. I intend to go to the Great Smokies this summer to see the total eclipse of the sun. in a place of spectacular beauty. I'm taking the dog so that I can see how it reacts. I've never seen any writing about how dogs react. I will even fashion some eye protection  for him.

You do not know this, but I really enjoy traveling... I have been as far north as Tahquamenon Falls and Pictured Rocks in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan. Both are spectacular -- this winter!

I missed paying any visits to the tourist traps along US 441 through Pigeon Forge and Gatlinburg, but I did stop at the original Kentucky Fried Chicken -- OK, greasy food and my aging stomach do not get along well anymore, but Colonel Sanders was quite a character. I got some interesting photos of his shrewd business enterprise of the 1930s. One can learn as much from that as one can from a course in business administration. I also stopped at the artist center in Berea.

The Cherokee Reservation in North Carolina was a disappointment, largely because the focus of the local economy is gambling. Teepees are for Plains Indians and gullible tourists; the Cherokee are not Plains Indians.

But yes, rural eastern Kentucky is poor, and the I-75 corridor looks to be a little richer because of the tourist trade. I noticed plenty of ads for treatment of opiate abuse and for disability lawyers.

OK, so I am not 'genuine' because I missed out on Dollywood.

I'm getting a passport so that I can visit a free country. Canada.

[Kinser79]

There is so much wrong with your thinking I sometimes don't know where to start PBR.  Fortunately for me, I know you're values locked anyway and my goal here is to point out how flawed your positions are to others.

PBR Wrote:If the Silent and Progressives are any indication, then we will see them go from  a feather-my-nest mode of behavior to finding meaning in life, aligning themselves first with a Civic generation (GI) or one that ends up in a Civic  role (the Gilded) only to find younger Idealists (Missionaries and then Boomers) as fresh breezes of intellectual freedom.

Possible.  But only if the pattern holds.   And if we use the GIs and Gilded as models for the future behavior of civic generations they will move right too.  As for the coming new prophets, they aren't being born yet so I'm going to with hold judgement as to their attitudes just yet.  That being said having the west move left since the 1930s it is time for a reversal, and naturally this means a move right.  It is my goal to die sometime before the next dementia awaking sets in.

Suffice it to say, that at current the Zeds, late Millies and of course Xers of all stripes are moving right.

Quote:I see a leader like Donald Trump as the sort who makes a rebellion a certainty for anyone who has a conscience and an intellect.

As I told my Boomer mother who was incensed that a former "Bernie Bro" went over to Trump and ditched the Democratic Party altogether (I've recently changed my affiliation--mostly because it was convenient) I personally don't care if he fixes the country or burns it to the ground.  Either would be progress.

Quote:His managerial style is despotic.

That is typical of presidents that are doers rather than talkers.  He's not the first to be called a despot either, so he's in good company with the likes of Lincoln and your beloved FDR.

Quote:His Presidency acts more like a royal court than like the Brain Trust of FDR.

So what.  Provided he gets the vast majority of his agenda done he will be a successful president.  Considering the last three presidents got very little accomplished perhaps a change in management style is necessary.

Quote:"Hispanic" is more about culture than about race

Agreed.  Why then do you continue to use it as a racial designation rather than a linguistic one? .

Also it is not a cultural designation either.  Peruvian culture is very distinct from Cuban culture which is distinct from Argentine culture.  All of them are likely Hispanic (as would be a Spaniard) as the lingua franca in each of those countries is Spanish, but they are clearly not from the same culture.

In attempting to appear not-racist you expose yourself as the ignorant lefty bigot you are.  

Quote:Dinesh D'Souza is a crank.

Actually his documentaries are well researched, you would know this if you actually watched them, or for that matter read his books (the citations and bibliographies are actually longer than the book itself--which is typical of his academic writing style).  But then again I expect anyone who is contrary to your values locked views has to be a crank.

Quote:Self-inflicted harm.  Gross under-investment in public health, education, and infrastructure -- that will get bad results no matter what the ethnic heritage. When the coal-mining industry dominated the local economy there were plenty of well-paying jobs, and the Democratic politicians in West Virginia could operate a bare-bones government with low taxes and few services,. Once those jobs vanished, all that remained was people who had to leave to improve their lives. Guess what is left!

So, your argumentation is that the problems these states have is either a result of lacking a high tax, high regulation business environment (like say Commiefornia California which people are fleeing in droves), or that the lowest of the bottom feeders remained after the jobs dried up.  Either way you're blaming the very same people who are most oppressed (in your view) for being oppressed.

I'm not terribly surprised by this.  I'll chalk it up to your perennial snobbery.  It is an affliction you share with many others who remain in the Democratic Party.

Quote:Middle-class blacks still face racism

No they don't.  Being a "middle class" (I'm going to take that mean middle income since I've explained class to you thousands of times already and you still don't get it that the amount of monoply money in your bank account doesn't matter) and black myself I've never faced racism.  Or I should say, I've never faced it on a systemic level and almost never at the hands of whites.  Indeed the largest amount of racism I've experienced is from other blacks who have a problem with me "acting white" by which they mean speaking correctly, holding down a job, taking care of my kids.

Indeed I've experienced far more homophobia than I have racism.  Again at the hands of other blacks, as opposed to whites or any other group.

Indeed the fact that there are high income, and middle income blacks demonstrates how not-racist the US actually is.  Granted the majority of blacks are poor, but so is the majority of whites and latinos.  And for that matter the majority period.

Quote:I have a knack for sizing people up for intelligence and learning very quickly.

If this is true, then you should already understand that there is a diversity of outcomes because there is a diversity of skills, abilities and intelligence.  Yet, you want to stick to the leftist narrative of oppression.  Honestly I don't know if this is due to a lack of intelligence on your part, or because it is psychologically comforting to you because it means you never have to take responsiblity for the outcomes that have happened in your own life.  After all you still blame your parents for a whole host of shit and my understanding is that you've been over 18 for quite a while now.

A 20 year old blaming his parents for X, Y, and Z is far more understandable than a 60 year old doing the same.  It's sad really but my 17 y/o seems more mature than you.  Could be generational though--I say the same of my mother at times.

Quote:U-N-I-O-N-S. Strong, militant, welfare-oriented unions ensured that someone who did a labor job for a giant employer could not be underpaid just for being black. Now that unions are practically dead, we have economic elites who treat everyone not among them very badly.

You mean those very unions which lead to over priced labor and eventual off shoring.  Honestly I think we would have been better off had they never existed.

Quote:By the way -- I was in Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina in April. Key attractions were Mammoth Cave and Great Smoky Mountains National Park

Congratulations, you left the house to visit these states to see not very interesting tourist traps.  Having lived in those states for extended periods of time I think I have a greater grasp on their problems and the causes of those problems than you do.  Honestly if I could make a living up there I'd pack up and leave.  The BF can basically get a job in any state that has schools and since that means all of them that isn't a limitation.

Quote:I'm taking the dog so that I can see how it reacts.

As a long time owner of dogs he is unlikely to react to an eclipse of the sun.  Their consciousness is not as complex as a human's.

Quote:I'm getting a passport so that I can visit a free country. Canada.

If you want a free country you're already in the freest one.  I say that as someone whose been to many countries in my time in the Navy.  I can categorically state that the United States of America is the last best hope for humanity.

[pbrower2a]

(07-22-2017, 07:49 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: There is so much wrong with your thinking I sometimes don't know where to start PBR.  Fortunately for me, I know you're values locked anyway and my goal here is to point out how flawed your positions are to others.

Some values deserve to be locked. Some values deserve to be locked up.

Quote:

PBR Wrote:If the Silent and Progressives are any indication, then we will see them go from  a feather-my-nest mode of behavior to finding meaning in life, aligning themselves first with a Civic generation (GI) or one that ends up in a Civic  role (the Gilded) only to find younger Idealists (Missionaries and then Boomers) as fresh breezes of intellectual freedom.

Possible.  But only if the pattern holds.   And if we use the GIs and Gilded as models for the future behavior of civic generations they will move right too.  As for the coming new prophets, they aren't being born yet so I'm going to with hold judgement as to their attitudes just yet.  That being said having the west move left since the 1930s it is time for a reversal, and naturally this means a move right.  It is my goal to die sometime before the next dementia awaking sets in.

Suffice it to say, that at current the Zeds, late Millies and of course Xers of all stripes are moving right.

But their conservatism will be above all else the defense of institutions that they found necessary for creating what they consider a livable world. Secondarily it will be a defense of a culture that appears increasingly stale and unimaginative -- which will create a problem. Boomers have not been particularly creative (where is our Walt Whitman or Jean Sibelius?).. but maybe the next Idealist generation will be. Millennials will have created the means and the temperament. They will want a world better for their kids than the one that they knew themselves. Few people would like to inflict the sort of world that the GIs knew upon any current children. But that comparatively hardscrabble  world that GI kids knew made GIs what they became.

Quote:

Quote:I see a leader like Donald Trump as the sort who makes a rebellion a certainty for anyone who has a conscience and an intellect.

As I told my Boomer mother who was incensed that a former "Bernie Bro" went over to Trump and ditched the Democratic Party altogether (I've recently changed my affiliation--mostly because it was convenient) I personally don't care if he fixes the country or burns it to the ground.  Either would be progress.

...and I expect to see multitudes complaining that Donald Trump's conveniently-ambiguous slogan "Make America Great Again"  really means "Make America Great Again, but only for elites.

Quote:

Quote:His managerial style is despotic.

That is typical of presidents that are doers rather than talkers.  He's not the first to be called a despot either, so he's in good company with the likes of Lincoln and your beloved FDR.

One talks first to sort things out, and not simply to announce how wonderful one is. Donald Trump is the shallowest person to be President since at least Warren G. Harding. 

Quote:

Quote:His Presidency acts more like a royal court than like the Brain Trust of FDR.

So what.  Provided he gets the vast majority of his agenda done he will be a successful president.  Considering the last three presidents got very little accomplished perhaps a change in management style is necessary.

Stalin achieved a great industrialization with a climate of dehumanizing fear. The Hitler gang was successful in reshaping German culture. And lets not forget that the great expansion of American economic life from the Tidewater region to Texas might have been impossible without chattel slavery. Sometimes the means discredit the objectives.

Democracy exists to ensure that people can contemplate the consequences of the means.

Quote:

Quote:"Hispanic" is more about culture than about race

Agreed.  Why then do you continue to use it as a racial designation rather than a linguistic one? .

Also it is not a cultural designation either.  Peruvian culture is very distinct from Cuban culture which is distinct from Argentine culture.  All of them are likely Hispanic (as would be a Spaniard) as the lingua franca in each of those countries is Spanish, but they are clearly not from the same culture.

In attempting to appear not-racist you expose yourself as the ignorant lefty bigot you are.

I think that we all know this. Canada is not New Zealand is not Australia is not England is not the USA is not Jamaica or several other Anglophone islands of the Caribbean. America is arguably the least English of them all, for obvious reasons.

Yes, I am a bigot -- about racism, child abuse, drugs, and personal violence. I hate them as much as a neo-Nazi hates you. But I have legitimate objects of hatred.

Quote:

Quote:Self-inflicted harm.  Gross under-investment in public health, education, and infrastructure -- that will get bad results no matter what the ethnic heritage. When the coal-mining industry dominated the local economy there were plenty of well-paying jobs, and the Democratic politicians in West Virginia could operate a bare-bones government with low taxes and few services,. Once those jobs vanished, all that remained was people who had to leave to improve their lives. Guess what is left!

So, your argumentation is that the problems these states have is either a result of lacking a high tax, high regulation business environment (like say Commiefornia California which people are fleeing in droves), or that the lowest of the bottom feeders remained after the jobs dried up.  Either way you're blaming the very same people who are most oppressed (in your view) for being oppressed.

I'm not terribly surprised by this.  I'll chalk it up to your perennial snobbery.  It is an affliction you share with many others who remain in the Democratic Party.

What applies to coal in Kentucky and West Virginia applies also, if to a lesser degree, with the automotive industry in Michigan.  What saves Michigan is a stronger agricultural industry.  You may not know it, but Michigan has one of the biggest wine industries in America. Besides, Michigan has the headquarters of Post and Kellogg's. The agriculture industry and the automotive industry were at odds over priorities in Michigan, which allowed for political competition as did not exist in West Virginia, where the Republicans were the mine owners and the Democrats were the miners. (OK, that is an oversimplification). The mine owners still have the money and the miners are losing their jobs. Democrats really messed up in West Virginia as they didn't in Michigan.

 

Quote:

Quote:Middle-class blacks still face racism

No they don't.  Being a "middle class" (I'm going to take that mean middle income since I've explained class to you thousands of times already and you still don't get it that the amount of monoply money in your bank account doesn't matter) and black myself I've never faced racism.  Or I should say, I've never faced it on a systemic level and almost never at the hands of whites.  Indeed the largest amount of racism I've experienced is from other blacks who have a problem with me "acting white" by which they mean speaking correctly, holding down a job, taking care of my kids.

Indeed I've experienced far more homophobia than I have racism.  Again at the hands of other blacks, as opposed to whites or any other group.

Indeed the fact that there are high income, and middle income blacks demonstrates how not-racist the US actually is.  Granted the majority of blacks are poor, but so is the majority of whites and latinos.  And for that matter the majority period.

Yes, bigotry -- from the sorts of people who believed the claptrap of "Make America Great Again" without asking questions like "for whom?" President Trump loves his 'low-information voters"... and racists are usually low-information people. Such people often see blacks only as ghetto thugs or, like Jesse Jackson or Barack Obama, hucksters pimping for welfare for something that rhymes with the name of Roy Rogers' horse.

"Acting white?" Heaven forbid that "acting white" means being shallow enough to see nothing wrong with President Trump. I'd encourage many white people that I know to act more like Overseas Chinese.

Oh, yes -- homophobia is inexcusable, and I generally associate it with stupid people. The sorts of people who think that I am gay because I don't exude aggressive masculinity? I may be a sissy by their standards... but  "Men.... yuck!"

Quote:

Quote:I have a knack for sizing people up for intelligence and learning very quickly.

If this is true, then you should already understand that there is a diversity of outcomes because there is a diversity of skills, abilities and intelligence.  Yet, you want to stick to the leftist narrative of oppression.  Honestly I don't know if this is due to a lack of intelligence on your part, or because it is psychologically comforting to you because it means you never have to take responsiblity for the outcomes that have happened in your own life.  After all you still blame your parents for a whole host of shit and my understanding is that you've been over 18 for quite a while now.

A 20 year old blaming his parents for X, Y, and Z is far more understandable than a 60 year old doing the same.  It's sad really but my 17 y/o seems more mature than you.  Could be generational though--I say the same of my mother at times.

They gave me some very bad advice because they had no idea of how to handle me. I was a good, placid kid for a Boomer, someone who adopted adult behavior early. No drugs, no run-ins with the law, no drinking problems, no lust for vehicular speed, and a well-constrained sex drive, and did well in school. What could possibly go wrong? ... Undiagnosed Asperger's. Once I got into the adult world I had troubles with understanding non-verbal communications and in office politics.  It even crippled my achievement in college.

Maybe I was too good at certain things for my own good.  

Quote:

Quote:U-N-I-O-N-S. Strong, militant, welfare-oriented unions ensured that someone who did a labor job for a giant employer could not be underpaid just for being black. Now that unions are practically dead, we have economic elites who treat everyone not among them very badly.

You mean those very unions which lead to over priced labor and eventual off shoring.  Honestly I think we would have been better off had they never existed.

And the glories of exploitation of the working class by employers who see workers as livestock to be exploited or vermin to be crushed leads to... as a former Marxist you should know where that leads. Marxism is irrelevant to healthy societies that don;t need a secret police to crush resentment of a brutal and exploitative social order like the one that Donald Trump stands for.

Quote:

Quote:By the way -- I was in Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina in April. Key attractions were Mammoth Cave and Great Smoky Mountains National Park

Congratulations, you left the house to visit these states to see not very interesting tourist traps.  Having lived in those states for extended periods of time I think I have a greater grasp on their problems and the causes of those problems than you do.  Honestly if I could make a living up there I'd pack up and leave.  The BF can basically get a job in any state that has schools and since that means all of them that isn't a limitation.

At least I didn't brag about going to Vegas or Reno.

Quote:

Quote:I'm taking the dog so that I can see how it reacts.

As a long time owner of dogs he is unlikely to react to an eclipse of the sun.  Their consciousness is not as complex as a human's.

Unlike us diurnal predators helpless at night, dogs fare about equally well as diurnal or nocturnal predators. By day we are as deadly as lions; by night we are lion food. A burglar at night facing even a medium-sized dog is in deep trouble with an animal that has much in common with Big Cats in abilities if not its usual behavior. A hint: I once saw a televised circus, and the dog act and the tiger act were much the same in what the animals did. The dog act was for comic effect. The tiger act was to awe us. I have seen  some very tiger-like behavior from dogs.

So maybe it will be slight for the dog.  But I would need to take the dog along for the ride, even if it is 'only' to southern Illinois, western Kentucky, or the Nashville metro area. 

By the way -- have you ever seen a total eclipse of the sun? How do you know how dogs would act in the presence of one? For most people it is a once-in-a-lifetime event. It will be a twice-in-a-lifetime event if I am around in 2025 because  I will need go only to Ohio.

Quote:I'm getting a passport so that I can visit a free country. Canada.

If you want a free country you're already in the freest one.  I say that as someone whose been to many countries in my time in the Navy.  I can categorically state that the USA is the last best hope for Humanity.[/quote]

Once America rejects Donald Trump and government by lobbyist you will be right. Sometimes America must learn some lessons (like never elect a demagogue) the hard way.

[Kinser79]

Quote: Some values deserve to be locked. Some values deserve to be locked up.

This statement, PBR, is only evidence of your crypto-fascism, or is it crypto-communism.  Doesn't matter, it is anti-Americanism and that is all that matters.  All ideas deserve the light of day.  After all sunshine is the best disinectant and what not. 

If the end goal is to not make Trumpism appealing then the best course of action is to allow it to run its course.  If it is as stupid/repugnant/ect as you say it is, it will be rejected.

Quote:Boomers have not been particularly creative (where is our Walt Whitman or Jean Sibelius?)

As you know I subscribe to a mega-saeculum theory.  It is my postulation that Boomers are a Mega-Nomad Prophet generation.  That being said, I wouldn't call boomers un-creative.  They have certainly been creative in how they've repackaged loads of old (and arguably bad) ideas for a more current context.  Just look at our resident astrologer and other new age types. 

Quote:maybe the next Idealist generation will be

Again, back to Mega-Saeculum theory, I would propose that the next prophet generation would likely express their creativity in the political arena.  They will be Mega-Civic Prophets.  Much like the Awakeners.  There may or may not be new forms of art, music and philosophy, but by and large their production will be political.  It will have to be.

Quote:They will want a world better for their kids than the one that they knew themselves.

That rings true of all generations.  The question really is what will the Millies create during the upcoming 1T. If the 4T ends in defeat or massive destruction, the 1T will be austere and that assumes that the nation survives (see the Post-ACW South, Post WW2 UK, Japan, Germany).  If the 4T ends in triumph then the empire will have at least one more saeculum of life in it.

Either way it is the outcome of the 4T which will create the 1T conditions which in turn will inform the world view of the coming prophets.  Given the paralles between the Glorious and the Millies, I suspect we'll be seeing an advancement, civicly oriented, prophet generation.

Quote:...and I expect to see multitudes complaining that Donald Trump's conveniently-ambiguous slogan "Make America Great Again"  really means "Make America Great Again, but only for elites.

A rising tide raises all the boats.  Some boats are bigger than other boats.  We shall see.  From where I sit main street is doing well even if we expect reality to smack wall street upside the head soon.  But then again there is a difference between the real economy and wall street.

Quote:
One talks first to sort things out, and not simply to announce how wonderful one is. Donald Trump is the shallowest person to be President since at least Warren G. Harding.

So what.  The American people elect presidents to get things done.  If he gets most of his agenda done, despite the machinations of Capitol Hill, he will be re-elected.  If he doesn't he won't be, unless the Democrats don't pull their heads out of their collective asses.  Since I don't foresee the latter happening (due to historical patterns I've mentioned before) I expect him to have a full 8 years unless he is assassinated. 

I didn't vote for Bill Clinton because he was a saint.  I didn't vote for Al "I invented the internet" Gore because I thought he was honest.  And I didn't vote for Obama twice because I thought he was a peace maker.  I likewise didn't vote for Donald Trump for his depth of character.

If you care to know my past votes for president:

1996 Bill Clinton
2000 Al Gore
2004 George W. Bush (Kerry rubbed me the wrong way)
2008 Obama (mostly because Sarah Palin is stupid and a 70 y/o's heart beat away from the presidency)
2012 Obama (Because Romney was a garbage candidate)
2016 Trump (Because Never Hillary--seriously I hated her since the 1990s)

And for lesser elections I almost always split my ticket though I've in the past trended towards Democrats, but lately I'm trending more Republican.  Mostly the Dems left me, not the other way round.

Quote:Stalin achieved a great industrialization with a climate of dehumanizing fear. The Hitler gang was successful in reshaping German culture. And lets not forget that the great expansion of American economic life from the Tidewater region to Texas might have been impossible without chattel slavery. Sometimes the means discredit the objectives.

I disagree.  Without Stalin dragging the Russians kicking and screaming into the 20th century there would have been no stopping Hitler.  Hitler himself even with his gang didn't really change German culture, rather they exploited what was already there.

As to Chattel Slavery, it was a necessary evil.  I hold no animosity about it.  Considering my nearest enslaved relative is a great-great grandparent, as far as I'm concerned the issue was dead and buried before my grandparents were even born.  I don't think a discussion of slavery is relevant to this thread either.

Quote:Democracy exists to ensure that people can contemplate the consequences of the means.

The US is not, and never has been a democracy.  We are a Federal Constitutional Republic.  With luck it will remain that way, because democracies always devolve into tyrannies of the majority.

Quote:Yes, I am a bigot

Thank you for finally admitting it.

Quote:You may not know it, but Michigan has one of the biggest wine industries in America.

I'm aware of Michigan's wine production, as well as its other agricultural and resource industries.  The goal should be to strengthen all our industries.  We can do this by several means.

1.  Fixing the Trade (a key plank in the Trump Agenda)

2.  Energy Independence (this means fracking and mining coal as well as working up renewable--I'm not going to go into how the problem is base load power for the 629846951981th time)

3.  Maintaining wages at a level that allows people to actually make a living.  The best method is by restricting labor supply, and the best method to do that is by restricting immigration.  It is only after ensuring a livelihood for all Americans that we can even consider inviting guests--IE. immigrants and/or migrants and/or refugees--to sit at the table.  That livelihood ideally is provided by those Americans doing socially constructive work (I really don't care if it is in the private for profit sector, the public sector or the non-profit sector).

4. When engaging in public spending making a conscious effort to buy American producion over any foreign production.

Ideally the US can and should establish itself as an autarky, because any state that finds itself beholden to international trade, particularly for a vital resource or other commodity is subject at any time to be cut off.

Quote:"Acting white?"

Yes, acting white.  Like I said, a black man is said to be "acting white" when he holds down a job (IE is "working for da man"), speaks English correctly (IE doesn't speak like an ignorant hood rat), and isn't a totally irresponsible parent (the old "I takes care of my kids" humble brag--see Chris Rock's statements on that matter).  I do not expect you to understand this phenomenon being white--it is something I've only ever seen committed by blacks to other blacks.

The problem is that there is now, and has been for a long time a civil war going on amongst black people.  I've posted Chris Rock's stand up routine about this phonominon many times.  Yes, he's cracking jokes, and yes it is funny, but it is only funny if you understand where it is coming from.  Perhaps why my white husband and son don't really get it.

Quote:Undiagnosed Asperger's.

So have you ever had an actual work up on that?  I mean Odin comes in and claims to be an autist and it is believable he had more than a 15 minute conversation with a social worker (and they would likely diagnose everything as a spectrum disorder--even if you came in with a broken leg and the bone was obviously showing through your skin).  My understanding is they tested him for hours and hours. 

To be perfectly honest, I don't believe you have Asperger's.  For two reasons really:  1st it isn't a recognized condition (see DSM-V).  2nd you've not gone (to my knowledge) and had an actual psychological evaluation to determine if you even have a spectrum disorder--let alone one that was removed from the DSM.   I do note that the line about Asperger's appeared conveniently after your father's death. 

Try your excuses on someone else PBR, I'm not buying them.  I doubt any Xer, Millie (who isn't an autist), or Zed here is going to either.

Quote:And the glories of exploitation of the working class by employers who see workers as livestock to be exploited or vermin to be crushed leads to... as a former Marxist you should know where that leads

Many current Marxists supported him on the basis of acceleration-ism.  I myself, didn't.  If the trade is fixed first, and labor supply restricted second, then the bourgeoisie has an interest in treating the proletarians they hire well.  It would be in their self-interest in doing so when labor supply is restricted.  One of the main reasons why Trump gets a lot of flack from his right, it isn't the love of brown and black people, it is is the love of cheap and easily exploitable foreign labor.

That you cannot see this truth is not surprising to me.  It requires a depth of economic analysis that you have always lacked, and one I actually developed as a Marxist-Leninist.  Though I would say that I've largely disposed of Marxism, it was severely flawed sociology, and worse economics.

Quote:At least I didn't brag about going to Vegas or Reno.

There's nothing wrong with either.  Though myself, if I want to gamble, I find the Seminole Reservation both closer and more to my tastes.  Also I can buy extremely cheap e-liquids there.  But no, Vagas and Reno would not be your scene.  I do miss going on regular trips to Atlantic City, like I did when I lived in the North East when I was in the Navy.  The boardwalk is actually pretty fun.

Quote: By the way -- have you ever seen a total eclipse of the sun? How do you know how dogs would act in the presence of one?

Twice, though both times was due to luck.  1994 there was a total eclipse of the sun over south western Indiana, south-eastern Illinois.  It occurred while I was out working in the yard and from all appearances my Siberian husky didn't even notice it.  He made no outward motion or indication of recognizing it was even occurring unless you count rubbing himself against a fence post to rid himself of winter coat as unusual behavior for early March.

It happened again while I was out with my Chihuahua in 2007 down here in Florida.  He mostly stayed in his spot and waited for it to get sunny again.  That particular dog likes to sun himself--I believe he has a tendency to get cold when the air conditioning is running (which is 9 months out of the year in Florida).

Quote:Once America rejects Donald Trump and government by lobbyist you will be right.

I would argue that most American already have rejected government by lobbyist.  Trump was the start of it because we know Hillary wasn't going to do anything about it.  She and the rest of the political establishment was, is and are part of the problem.  I think you just have a problem with Daddy because he isn't a member of your chosen team.