Wheels within wheels.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 01:14 AM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 11:35 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: The only one who might conceivably be a candidate is David Kaiser, who is an old boomer and I don't know his horoscope score. I haven't even done Neil Howe's score.

It's funny, tho. I spent most of my many hours and days of research this past year to determine that Daddy Drump had a higher score for getting elected than Hillary the Hag. And I still predicted Hillary would win. Oh well....

I snipped the first part of your quote. I'm trying to be just a little more respectful than that, even to kinser, but it requires editing on my part.

Eric, Eric, Eric, you're supposed to snip stuff that's redundant.  I'm OK with that, OK.

1. You need, and I mean NEED to get a sample of the current posters, OK?

Why?

Quote:2. As for David, he has his own links and curriculum Vitae, Right?
3. That means you can do their scores, right. And... I can even provide stats for Eric for moi? I have the data, I have the answers, I'm the key to Eric's stuff.

Whoever wants a score, and provides the birth data, can get a score from me.

Quote:5. See... The answer for the California Gold Rush.  I, Rags of the materialistic , geologic rationale , as to why California has gold.  That's important, right? California, gold, that's the tickets.  I understand how and why gold is where it is. Wanna have me move to California and loot da gold? I have the power, the knowledge , and the patience.  So, Eric, I know the locations of gold,  in California.  I say this, the Orveville, I know the scene, the ways, the geology, Oreville< that"s the location of Rag's GoLd. ok ? ...........

Not much left there, I'm afraid. Probably Drump has appropriated a good part of it. He still hates us though, because we didn't vote for him. All those illegals voting, ya know.

[Galen]

(03-13-2017, 07:24 PM)Odin Wrote: Trump, handsome?  

And if any woman looks like a corpse it's Kellyanne Conway.

Here is a picture of Conway:  



Not bad for being fifty with probably very little in the way of cosmetic surgery.  I should also note that after looking at many photos that her appearance doesn't vary much.  Apparently she doesn't require as much work as Hillary does.

Then there is the crypt keeper herself in what appears be close to her natural state when they don't plaster the make up on to make her look alive.  Her appearance is highly variable depending on how long the makeup and hair people have to work on her.



Conway for the win.  Not only that but she has the virtue of not sounding as shrill which I consider a plus.

[Galen]

(03-13-2017, 08:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 07:47 PM)SomeGuy Wrote:

Quote:Wow, you sure wasted your time. Campaigning for Daddy? What a waste.

Apparently not, he won Florida (Kinser's state of residence) and the Presidency.

As I said, a waste of time!

Not from where I am standing.  The guy he supported won which, of course, sucks for you but that is hardly a bad thing.

[Galen]

(03-13-2017, 10:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 10:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 08:07 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 08:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 07:47 PM)SomeGuy Wrote: Apparently not, he won Florida (Kinser's state of residence) and the Presidency.

As I said, a waste of time!

Why was it a waste of time?  I think Kinser79 got quite a bang for the time expended for what his goals were for said time spent.   Florida was one of those close call states. The results went his ways.

And our nation is being wasted by its worst president ever. Nothing but destruction of everything valuable. What a waste of time to work for THAT! Uh, obviously..... why a waste? you ask??? Surely you knew what I meant without asking.

Let us just suppose that the nation is being wasted by the worst president ever.  That nothing but destruction will come from his presidency.

Do you not realize that destruction is part of creation?  Without Shiva, Brahma cannot create the world again.

As I've said in other threads, if Trump manages to cut a Gorbachev role in this 4T then I'll be happy.  Managed demolition is preferable to the un-managed demolition of nuclear bombs  being dropped on US cities that the Dims offer.

That is the secret of fourth turnings: All the choices suck.  Fortunately for you, there is Generation X which has ample experience in surviving such situations.  Generation X is almost certainly not what you want but we just might be what you need because leaving such decisions in the hands of Boomers hasn't worked out so well.

[Kinser79]

You don't give up do you.  Well I'll give you points for persistence. 

EtI Wrote:Use any measure that you like. Idealism/spiritualism only says that WHATEVER you measure is consciousness, since that is what exists.

So your answer is that there is no instrument nor measurement for this consciousness.  So therefore we can conclude that there is no empirical standard (other than associated phenomena) to determine if something is or is not conscious.  Got it.

EtI Wrote:Within your materialist philosophy, all that may work for you. In a spiritualist perspective, it does not work. In idealism, "my own mind" includes the entire universe and beyond; whatever exists. My individual mind is simply a focus point for that cosmic mind.

So from a spiritualist perspective, if you don't have an answer you make one up.  Sounds and awful lot like theology.  A blind man, in a dark room looking for a black cat, which isn't there, and proclaiming "I found it".

Yep A is still 0.

EtI Wrote:Scientific measurements can tell us many things, and it cannot tell us many other things. There are 4 basic methods of knowing, in my perspective: science, religion/mysticism, the arts, and philosophy.

I'll grant you science and philosophy.  Religion is less than useless in trying to understand anything beyond the religion.  The arts typically are either expressions of the artist's emotional state or depictions of things which exist.  Neither are a way of knowing anything.

Even still with those two ways of knowing you understand the first not at all, and well the second, you can maybe feign knowledge with the profoundly ignorant.  But you don't fool me which is why I think you hate me so.

EtI Wrote:Yes, idealists hold that all objects are conscious

So idealists hold that objects which display no phenomena associated with consciousness are in fact conscious.  So in short they're making shit up.  Got it.

EtI Wrote:You have your materialist perspective, which is valid in your opinion, but others have other perspectives. The point is that no analysis of history can be correct if it excludes perspective held by vast numbers and whole nations and eras. I do not do this, but you do.

Actually the materialist perspective is the only perspective by which anyone can truly know anything. 

It is not important to the analysis of history to incorporate every idea--even a widely held idea--if it has been largely found to be false.  I don't see many expositions on history based upon blood letting for example, and yet many people of the time period thought that it was the cure for just about everything.

And you do worse than just ignoring irrelevant, and false ideas, you actively poo-poo relevant and correct ideas.

EtI Wrote:Good luck with that

Luck has nothing to do with it.

EtI Wrote:Yes, because the "self" is everything. Everything outside my body and my sense perception is also me. The personal self is only an aspect of reality; it does not exist separately.

It is truly amazing how you are so "self-aware" and yet not "self-aware" as to understand that this sentence reduces your entire ideology to solipsism.

I must say I'm truly amazed.  I didn't think it was possible for someone over the age of 7 to be so clueless without also being mentally deficient.

If the self is "everything" (by which I take you to mean all of the things that have existed, exist now or will exist), then the knowlege of that self must be based solely on that self.

EtI Wrote:I don't entirely disagree with you that everything is mathematics

In that case you might want to study some.  I suggest starting with the properties of the number Zero.

EtI Wrote:Of course, astrology is...

Irrelevant bullshit that most humans moved past during the 18th century.

EtI Wrote:But you remain an isolated object, in your view.

As far as one can truly know we are all isolated self-contained objects.  I only have observable phenomena to correlate with consciousness in others--the same is true for you.  You just prefer to lie to yourself about that fact.

EtI Wrote:Many people today hold views like Emerson's

Many people also think that Water Ice only comes in one phase.  It comes in comes in 17 different phases not all of them requiring special equipment to produce on Earth.  So lots of people hold wrong ideas.  That's nothing new.

EtI Wrote:Welcome to the real world. Not everyone agrees with you. A big majority of people are spiritualists today. Many of those are traditionalists, but not all of them. Spiritualism is the default philosophy, or perennial philosophy.

1.  Already knew that and didn't expect everyone to agree with me.  Mostly those who don't, don't because they are ignorant, then there are the ones who actually are stupid, and then there those whose livelihoods depend on them not agreeing with me or my views.

2.  Actually the fastest growing religion is agnosticism.  Not just in the west but globally.  Many people are finding "spiritualism" to be tedious.  As for those who say they are "spiritual" but not religious--that's really code for the poll taker to go away.

3.  Spiritualism is based on a religious dogma of some sort.  Many are fine with the Abrahamic Faiths or other Traditional faiths.  However, all of them require being taught to a person, often at a very young age prior to their ability to determine fiction from reality developing.  As such I must conclude that agnosticism is the default philosophical setting.

If we are speaking of religion in particular then atheism (of the soft type) is the default setting.

EtI Wrote:No, that is not when ideologies are created. Marxism, for example, dates from 1848 in what was likely a 3T or borderline 4T, but certainly not a 2T.

You sure you want to debate Marxism with a former Marxist?

Marxism itself was not created in 1848, Marx wrote a pamphlet in 1848 for a minor left wing party.  The manifesto only became important after Marx himself had already died in the 1880s and was pushed by Engels.  The vast majority of Marxist work of the 19th century was produced from the 1860s to the 1880s (arguably a 1T/2T boarder line).  Furthermore the Second International the main promulgator of Marxist thought until WW1 didn't really take off till the 1890s.  There in the works of Marx and Engels were read, and interpreted and explained until you get to Lenin in around 1900 when he bursts on the scene.

By and large the heavy lifting  was done not by Marx, and Engles but by others in the Second International.  Marxism-Leninism is a rejection of those ideas which are felt to be too idealistic.  It was a Reformation within socialism if you will.

And incidentally 1848 was some 33 years after 1815 which was the end of the European 4T for Revolutionary Saeculum.

S&H focused on America and the War of 1812 was clearly a 1T in that case.

If you disbelieve me about the Napoleonic wars being 4T events you should probably read the Hornblower books.

EtI Wrote:No, founding dates don't necessarily matter. It's when they become much more popular than before, that counts the most.

Either 2Ts are when religions get founded or they are not.  It is clear that they are not, so you're attempting to obfuscaste.  And even if you've changed your precept to "well they get popular then" you'd still be wrong.  The Nation of Islam started gaining major popularity in NYC, Philadelphia and Chicago in the 1940s, and really took off when Malcolm X came on the scene in the mid-1950s.  4t and 1T respectively.

EtI Wrote:Scientology has nothing to do with UFOs

So Xenu did not invade Earth with a feet of space ships that looked remarkably like Boeing 707s!  Are you sure about that cause it is in the very book the whole cult is based on.  Shit South Park did an entire episode on what Scientologists believe!

EtI Wrote:It is a method of clearing past traumas and discovering that you are a spiritual being, and applying that to your life. And paying lots of money for it.

On the first part of the sentence, no cause it doesn't work.  On the second part...yes it is a con-job but so is the Catholic Church and your Astrology gig.

EtI Wrote:Your reading of that wikipedia page

Is more studying as to what they believe than you ever did.  Which you're proving by claiming that they are not in fact a UFO Cult when they really are.

Do you plan on claiming the Raelians are a sect of Christianity next?

[pretend there is a rolling on floor laughing my ass off emoji here]  {{Dan we need one of those}}

EtI Wrote:It is not a UFO cult, just because it asserts that we have had other lives on other planets.

No they are a UFO cult precisely because they assert that, and precisely because they assert that human souls were put here on earth by some Xenu guy with a fleet of 707 like space ships (never mind that such a device would never actually be able to fly in space--but hey L. Ron Hubard wrote really bad science fiction [oh he was a GI btw, I'm surprised you're defending his work]).

EtI Wrote:Their belief, which they claim to demonstrate by helping people recall their life experiences, is about reincarnation-- not travels in spaceships.

The fact that they claim that human "souls" were delivered here by Xenu on space ships is enough to be categorized as a UFO cult.  Perhaps not the wackiest UFO cult out there but still it is so stupid only brain dead celebutards could believe it.

EtI Wrote:Why did that distinction elude you? Because it does not conform to your own materialist beliefs.

It eludes me because your statements are in direct contradiction to their written materials. 

My materialist beliefs stipulate that I kinda have to believe that I'm actually seeing very things they have written when I see them.  The evidence of one's own eyes is often the best evidence.  But you should know that already seeing as your consciousness knows all the universe and all that.

EtI Wrote:Baloney. NOI is Islam. Sunni Islam dates from the 660s CE.

True on Sunni Islam.  But here's the thing Eric I expressly said in my last post that the NOI was not in fact Islam.  Were it to be Islam it would be impossible for Malcolm X to convert to Islam.  One might change a sect in Christianity but one does not convert from a Baptist to a Methodist.  They just change who they pay their tithes to.

Myself, Last Post Wrote:The Nation of Islam is a religion.  It is also not Islam.  Were the NOI simply Islam it would be impossible for Malik Al Shabazz (also known as Malcolm X) to convert to Sunni Islam.  Sunni Islam is the form practiced in most Islamic countries by the way.

Reading comprehension is not your friend is it.  Yet more evidence for my hypothesis that you're lying about going to University.  No way you could get past the third grade without knowing the meaning of the word "not".

EtI Wrote:Your opinion;

It is not an opinion.  Not that the post-modernist "well, that's just your opinion, man." cop out works with me.  Walk up to a random stranger and ask them about Emmerson or Thoreau.  I'm willing to bet they're going to say "Who?"  Especially walk up to any Black, Asian or Latino (I know CA has lots of them) and ask them that.  I'll give you 99 to 1 odds that they're going to say "Who?"

Now if you ask any local black about going to Church I guarantee you that you'll get either an affirmative answer or "My Mama does".

Sorry but reality is not an opinion, man.

EtI Wrote:others quite disagree and consider it influential, including obviously Mr. Howe.

He's free to view them as influential.  As I said, he's probably from New England stock where they were influential.  Out side of that little section of the country no one knows about them besides some stuff they learned long enough for a test in school.

EtI Wrote:YOu have been excluding non-Christian religion and spirituality from Awakenings here in these posts.

Non-Christian religions are not relevant in a majority Christian country.  Were I to work up a saeculum for Saudi Arabia I'm likely to completely ignore non-Islam religion and spirituality from their Awakenings too. Why?  Because no one cares what happens to a sect of 10 people when you're dealing with generations with millions of people.  It is like a drop of fresh water in the ocean.

EtI Wrote:Wrong. "we are all One" means that we are One, not a mere collection if separate individuals.

If We are all one, and not a collection of separate individuals then there is no we.  So either there is a We, and therefore a collective.  Or there is not a One.

I'm not sorry to burst your bubble like this, but that entire phrase is meaningless gibberish.  Either there is a We, or there is a One.  But never the twain shall meet.

Seriously if I have to define words like "we" and "one" for you it would be better for you to just go back to first grade.  I bet if I said that to my five year old nephew "We are all one" he'd look at me, shake is head and say "you be trippin'"  (meaning that I'm clearly insane).

EtI Wrote:I'm already on your bad side

And yet you keep coming back for more.  I'm beginning to wonder if you're a masochist the way I've been thrashing you.  But then again you would have to be smart enough to know that I am thrashing you, which I'm not convinced you are.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iGAMbNKcN1U

That is how most of our debates go..except you're not as smart as Tyrell.

I'm not going to get into a debate with you over Liberatarianism.  But if you want to debate it, I'm sure Galen would be game.  Considering I'm not a Libertarian--but rather a Classical Liberal.

EtI Wrote:But if you now embrace non-violence (and perhaps you still don't), I consider that an improvement for you.

I wouldn't exactly call it "non-violence" rather I subscribe to the non-aggression principle.  I reserve the right to use violence in self-defense.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-aggression_principle

Yes it is considered part of Libertarianism, but is not exclusive to them.

EtI Wrote:Isn't it the GPS Awakening (Great Power Saeculum)? Or is this your own name for it?

GPS stands for Great Power Saeculum.  Just like CWS stands for Civil War Saeculum.  I do not claim credit for these abbreviations.  I believe I first saw them being used on the old forum by Mr. Horn.

EtI Wrote:Obviously not, since my own current religious affiliation descends from the GSP Awakening.

So are you admitting my long time charge that New Age is just a repackaging of the same old occult?

But it good that you recognize the GPS had an awakening.  I'd go further that since many of the religions/ideologies/technologies and so on from that era are with us today and still extremely relevant today that the whole saeculum on a Mega-level serves as an awakening..

Of course I know you're going to say "No its not because reasons."

EtI Wrote:There is little or no reference to ideologies by S&H

But there are plenty of references to political, social, cultural and religious ideas and formulations.  In modern English we call these things "ideologies".  Just because you have the understanding of a 14th century peasant doesn't mean the rest of us do as well.

EtI Wrote:But yes, ideals are conceived in 2Ts which are put into effect in 4Ts

Ideals is just an other way of saying ideologies.  In order to implement in the 4T an ideal (doesn't matter what it is) it has to be first formed into an ideology.

EtI Wrote:But the effect on this 4T may not happen this time, because of your cynical generation that has rejected everything that was conceived in the 2T.

It wouldn't be up to my generation to implement them anyway according to S&H.  But have you stopped to consider that those things conceived in the 2T have been found to be garbage and not worth implementing?  No of course not, that would mean laying blame on your generation and by extension yourself.

And yet you're doing that anyway.  Since your consciousness expands to the whole of the universe and beyond, by knocking Xers you're really knocking yourself.  I know you'll never admit that--it might for a tiny millisecond expose your whole worldview to be the fraud that it is.

EtI Wrote:As YOU have now done to an astonishing and exaggerated degree by supporting someone who totally opposes the ideals of the 2T, and is destroying every trace of it to the best of his ability.

I hope he destroys all of it.  The whole rotten structure must go.  Before we build our nice new Trump Style condo complete with gold toilet seats we have to bulldoze a lot of shit.

I'm not ashamed...of winning.  Winning is good.  I plan on winning so much I'll get tired of winning.

EtI Wrote:You didn't read S&H. Salvation through faith rather than works is the major perspective of Christian revivals during 2Ts.

Not quite.  Salvation through faith alone is a Lutheran precept and as such was a major feature of the Reformation.  All the awakenings that followed just changed the window dressing.

EtI Wrote:And I claim Descartes proved it well enough, and so did Berkeley. We disagree. So what?

So both you and Berkeley are wrong.  Not much new about that.  Seriously does that school still have its accreditation and if so why?  Nothing good has come from it since maybe the 1940s.

EtI Wrote:I am not going to do a search for scientific evidence for "consciousness" right now.

Because there isn't any unless it is you posting some crackpot whose been thrown out of any school which cares about its academic reputation.

EtI Wrote:On the other hand, asking for consciousness, which is immeasurable

So Consciousness cannot be measured.

EtI Wrote:since it is infinite

Space is considered to be infinite and yet we can measure part of it.  But since it is not measurable (IE Immeasurable--your own words) how can we even know that it is even close to infinite.

EtI Wrote:If it can be measured, it probably can only be measured or proven indirectly.

If it can be measured or proved indirectly it is not then immeasurable, being as it has been measured though indirectly.

EtI Wrote:From a spiritualist point of view, it doesn't matter. We know spiritually by experience that everything is one, and it's all spirit. So anything that is measured, is also spirit. And that every human being is connected to the environment, is physical fact.

Translation the difference between a spiritualist and a theologian is nothing.  Both are blind men in dark rooms looking for black cats that aren't there and shouting that they have found it.

EtI Wrote:Why should I care about your opinion of that-singer-who-shall-remain-nameless? Your view of objectively-bad music speaks for itself.

For someone who likes TSWSRN to call my music objectively bad either is completely tone deaf or has no understanding that TSWSRN produces schlock for the lowest common denominator.  Smashing Pumpkins these days is considered "Classic Rock" just ask any 17 year old...Stay away from mine.

You shouldn't care, but you do.  Don't tell me you don't, cause that only tells me you do.

[Kinser79]

(03-14-2017, 02:57 AM)Galen Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 07:24 PM)Odin Wrote: Trump, handsome?  

And if any woman looks like a corpse it's Kellyanne Conway.

Here is a picture of Conway:  

Not bad for being fifty with probably very little in the way of cosmetic surgery.  I should also note that after looking at many photos that her appearance doesn't vary much.  Apparently she doesn't require as much work as Hillary does.

Then there is the crypt keeper herself in what appears be close to her natural state when they don't plaster the make up on to make her look alive.  Her appearance is highly variable depending on how long the makeup and hair people have to work on her.

Conway for the win.  Not only that but she has the virtue of not sounding as shrill which I consider a plus.

She's 50? I expected her to be younger. I still think she should put on some weight though. And like I said Odin's just jelly, Trigglypuff is out of his league.

(03-14-2017, 03:02 AM)Galen Wrote: <snip Eric drivel>

Not from where I am standing.  The guy he supported won which, of course, sucks for you but that is hardly a bad thing.

Well Trump wasn't my first choice, but the Dims had to cheat and run a corpse. I didn't feel like playing Weekend at Hillary's for 4 years.

Worst thing I can say about Trump though is when he gets bronzed he looks like a carrot. He should spring for the good shit, or fire his make up person.

(03-14-2017, 03:08 AM)Galen Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 10:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 10:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 08:07 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 08:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: As I said, a waste of time!

Why was it a waste of time?  I think Kinser79 got quite a bang for the time expended for what his goals were for said time spent.   Florida was one of those close call states. The results went his ways.

And our nation is being wasted by its worst president ever. Nothing but destruction of everything valuable. What a waste of time to work for THAT! Uh, obviously..... why a waste? you ask??? Surely you knew what I meant without asking.

Let us just suppose that the nation is being wasted by the worst president ever.  That nothing but destruction will come from his presidency.

Do you not realize that destruction is part of creation?  Without Shiva, Brahma cannot create the world again.

As I've said in other threads, if Trump manages to cut a Gorbachev role in this 4T then I'll be happy.  Managed demolition is preferable to the un-managed demolition of nuclear bombs  being dropped on US cities that the Dims offer.

That is the secret of fourth turnings: All the choices suck.  Fortunately for you, there is Generation X which has ample experience in surviving such situations.  Generation X is almost certainly not what you want but we just might be what you need because leaving such decisions in the hands of Boomers hasn't worked out so well.

Let us just suppose Eric is right and Trump destroys everything. That is still progress. One cannot re-develop a dilapidated housing project without bulldozing it first.

[Galen]

(03-14-2017, 03:30 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 03:02 AM)Galen Wrote: <snip Eric drivel>

Not from where I am standing.  The guy he supported won which, of course, sucks for you but that is hardly a bad thing.

Well Trump wasn't my first choice, but the Dims had to cheat and run a corpse.  I didn't feel like playing Weekend at Hillary's for 4 years.

Or possibly eight years.  Either way they were never getting the smell of a rotting corpse out of the White House.  Then there is the small matter of the war she wanted with Russia.  With Hillary already dead, I doubt the prospect of global thermonuclear war was really a problem for her.

[Eric the Green]

Hillary is 1000 times more honest, good looking and authentic-sounding than Con-way, who cons her way all the time.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 03:08 AM)Galen Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 10:39 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 10:11 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 08:07 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(03-13-2017, 08:03 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: As I said, a waste of time!

Why was it a waste of time?  I think Kinser79 got quite a bang for the time expended for what his goals were for said time spent.   Florida was one of those close call states. The results went his ways.

And our nation is being wasted by its worst president ever. Nothing but destruction of everything valuable. What a waste of time to work for THAT! Uh, obviously..... why a waste? you ask??? Surely you knew what I meant without asking.

Let us just suppose that the nation is being wasted by the worst president ever.  That nothing but destruction will come from his presidency.

Do you not realize that destruction is part of creation?  Without Shiva, Brahma cannot create the world again.

As I've said in other threads, if Trump manages to cut a Gorbachev role in this 4T then I'll be happy.  Managed demolition is preferable to the un-managed demolition of nuclear bombs  being dropped on US cities that the Dims offer.

That is the secret of fourth turnings: All the choices suck.  Fortunately for you, there is Generation X which has ample experience in surviving such situations.  Generation X is almost certainly not what you want but we just might be what you need because leaving such decisions in the hands of Boomers hasn't worked out so well.

I was wondering, are nomads the only generation who, resenting and rebelling against it, never have the chance or opportunity or willingness to have a spiritual awakening in their lives? Are they a type that never get touched by grace, as it were? Is this also true of early or middle-cohort civics?

I doubt that's true. But it seems to evade a lot of core and late Xers.

I am so thankful for such awakening as I have had. I feel blest; it made such a difference to me, however much more of it I still may need or like to have. It enriched beyond measure my life, and that of many boomers and silents that I know or knew. And the best part of it was the first part of it, my first awakening in 1966-67.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 03:22 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: You don't give up do you.  Well I'll give you points for persistence. 

Thank you. It is getting too long and tiresome though; I'll see if I can cut it down, deleting the portions where you are just repeating yourself and not getting what I'm saying. Maybe that will cut things down quite a bit, if I really follow through on that...... well, it's still long and entirely useless, since it's probably too hard for anyone else to follow, even supposing anyone is interested....

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Use any measure that you like. Idealism/spiritualism only says that WHATEVER you measure is consciousness, since that is what exists.

So your answer is that there is no instrument nor measurement for this consciousness.  So therefore we can conclude that there is no empirical standard (other than associated phenomena) to determine if something is or is not conscious.  Got it.

No you don't "got it." Everything is conscious; no measurement is necessary. Whatever you measure, is consciousness, since that's all there is. Now, it's true that measurement is not necessary to determine this truth. Whether it can actually be measured in some way, again I refer you to the other thread. Maybe.

Quote:But you don't fool me which is why I think you hate me so.

No, the hate is on you.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Yes, because the "self" is everything. Everything outside my body and my sense perception is also me. The personal self is only an aspect of reality; it does not exist separately.

If the self is "everything" (by which I take you to mean all of the things that have existed, exist now or will exist), then the knowledge of that self must be based solely on that self.

Yes, but that self is everything. Mystic experience is the basis of knowing oneself, and that it is one with everything. Do you think a human being exists separately? Again, that is against science.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:I don't entirely disagree with you that everything is mathematics

In that case you might want to study some.  I suggest starting with the properties of the number Zero.

I know all about zero, since that is the amount of matter that exists.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:But you remain an isolated object, in your view.

As far as one can truly know we are all isolated self-contained objects.  I only have observable phenomena to correlate with consciousness in others--the same is true for you.  You just prefer to lie to yourself about that fact.

You are lying to yourself and ignorant of science, then, as I already explained.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Many people today hold views like Emerson's

Many people also think that Water Ice only comes in one phase.  It comes in comes in 17 different phases not all of them requiring special equipment to produce on Earth.  So lots of people hold wrong ideas.  That's nothing new.

The point is the ideas that many people hold, are the basis of the mindsets and moods of those who make up generations and create turnings, and respond to history in their way, etc. Ignoring such ideas and mindsets, therefore, is only a basis for another ideology, not the basis of turnings and mega-turnings in the S&H theory. You have made up your own mega-theory; it has nothing to do with S&H.

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EtI Wrote:Welcome to the real world. Not everyone agrees with you. A big majority of people are spiritualists today. Many of those are traditionalists, but not all of them. Spiritualism is the default philosophy, or perennial philosophy.

1.  Already knew that and didn't expect everyone to agree with me.  Mostly those who don't, don't because they are ignorant, then there are the ones who actually are stupid, and then there those whose livelihoods depend on them not agreeing with me or my views.

2.  Actually the fastest growing religion is agnosticism.  Not just in the west but globally.  Many people are finding "spiritualism" to be tedious.  As for those who say they are "spiritual" but not religious--that's really code for the poll taker to go away.

3.  Spiritualism is based on a religious dogma of some sort.  Many are fine with the Abrahamic Faiths or other Traditional faiths.  However, all of them require being taught to a person, often at a very young age prior to their ability to determine fiction from reality developing.  As such I must conclude that agnosticism is the default philosophical setting.

If we are speaking of religion in particular then atheism (of the soft type) is the default setting.

All you have explained here, is that you think those who disagree with you are stupid.

On the other hand, those like me who have had spiritual awakenings, including the vast numbers of boomers, silents and late cohort GIs during the recent consciousness revolution 2T, were not "taught" these awakenings, but as in my case, realized something which was the opposite of what they were taught. As Roger McGuinn sang in 1966, "I saw the great blunder my teachers have made, scientific delirium madness." In my more nasty moods, I would say that your philosophy is a kind of madness. But then, that would be talking like you, and I wouldn't want to do that

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EtI Wrote:No, that is not when ideologies are created. Marxism, for example, dates from 1848 in what was likely a 3T or borderline 4T, but certainly not a 2T.

You sure you want to debate Marxism with a former Marxist?

Marxism itself was not created in 1848, Marx wrote a pamphlet in 1848 for a minor left wing party.  The manifesto only became important after Marx himself had already died in the 1880s and was pushed by Engels.  The vast majority of Marxist work of the 19th century was produced from the 1860s to the 1880s (arguably a 1T/2T boarder line).  Furthermore the Second International the main promulgator of Marxist thought until WW1 didn't really take off till the 1890s.  There in the works of Marx and Engels were read, and interpreted and explained until you get to Lenin in around 1900 when he bursts on the scene.

By and large the heavy lifting  was done not by Marx, and Engels but by others in the Second International.  Marxism-Leninism is a rejection of those ideas which are felt to be too idealistic.  It was a Reformation within socialism if you will.

And incidentally 1848 was some 33 years after 1815 which was the end of the European 4T for Revolutionary Saeculum.

You put it in the gilded age, which was a 1T, in both Europe and America.

You as a former Marxist appear to have misunderstood it, since you have defected from its most essential insights as if they never penetrated your mind or heart.

Quote:S&H focused on America and the War of 1812 was clearly a 1T in that case.

If you disbelieve me about the Napoleonic wars being 4T events you should probably read the Hornblower books.

The Napoleonic wars era was definitely a 1T era in Europe.

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EtI Wrote:No, founding dates don't necessarily matter. It's when they become much more popular than before, that counts the most.

Either 2Ts are when religions get founded or they are not.  It is clear that they are not, so you're attempting to obfuscaste.  And even if you've changed your precept to "well they get popular then" you'd still be wrong.  The Nation of Islam started gaining major popularity in NYC, Philadelphia and Chicago in the 1940s, and really took off when Malcolm X came on the scene in the mid-1950s.  4t and 1T respectively.

Calling the Nation of Islam a religion is insane. There was clearly no spiritual awakening associated with its emergence. It is merely a kind of nationalist and ethnic extremism.

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EtI Wrote:Scientology has nothing to do with UFOs

So Xenu did not invade Earth with a feet of space ships that looked remarkably like Boeing 707s!  Are you sure about that cause it is in the very book the whole cult is based on.  Shit South Park did an entire episode on what Scientologists believe!

I read the Scientology books; I don't get my information about religions from stupid TV shows and sci fi. I studied that religion thoroughly, and you have not.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Baloney. NOI is Islam. Sunni Islam dates from the 660s CE.

True on Sunni Islam.  But here's the thing Eric I expressly said in my last post that the NOI was not in fact Islam.  Were it to be Islam it would be impossible for Malcolm X to convert to Islam. 

The Nation of Islam is a religion.  It is also not Islam.  Were the NOI simply Islam it would be impossible for Malik Al Shabazz (also known as Malcolm X) to convert to Sunni Islam.  Sunni Islam is the form practiced in most Islamic countries by the way.

[/quote]

That seems an incredibly stupid statement, even for you. NOI is not Islam because Malcolm converted to Islam by joining it?

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EtI Wrote:others quite disagree and consider it influential, including obviously Mr. Howe.

He's free to view them as influential.  As I said, he's probably from New England stock where they were influential.  Out side of that little section of the country no one knows about them besides some stuff they learned long enough for a test in school.

The fact that it's taught in CA high school, where I also learned about it and liked it, is proof that it's influential. Emerson is probably the most influential American philosopher.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:YOu have been excluding non-Christian religion and spirituality from Awakenings here in these posts.

Non-Christian religions are not relevant in a majority Christian country. 

You admit my point. You exclude genuine spirituality from awakenings. No, lots of people are interested in it.

That Deepak Chopra can be a "best-selling author" is one example of how the recent spiritual awakening is of interest to many people today, contrary to what you say.
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/16780...hird_Jesus

Oprah Winfrey, Eckhardt Tolle, Wayne Dyer and the Dalai Lama are other examples of how popular the teachers of genuine spirituality are today (as opposed to merely traditionalist or fundamentalist Christianity or Islam). There are legions of other such authors, teachers, gurus, ministers, etc.

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EtI Wrote:Wrong. "we are all One" means that we are One, not a mere collection if separate individuals.

If We are all one, and not a collection of separate individuals then there is no we.  So either there is a We, and therefore a collective.  Or there is not a One.

I'm not sorry to burst your bubble like this, but that entire phrase is meaningless gibberish.  Either there is a We, or there is a One.  But never the twain shall meet.

Seriously if I have to define words like "we" and "one" for you it would be better for you to just go back to first grade.  I bet if I said that to my five year old nephew "We are all one" he'd look at me, shake is head and say "you be trippin'"  (meaning that I'm clearly insane).

The "we" collection is transcended in the experience of oneness, and the we becomes the one. That answers your discussion about we and one. But, we also remain individual expressions of the one.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:I'm already on your bad side

And yet you keep coming back for more.  I'm beginning to wonder if you're a masochist the way I've been thrashing you.  But then again you would have to be smart enough to know that I am thrashing you, which I'm not convinced you are.

You claim to win your debates with me, but that is only your claim. Your thrashing consists of just ignoring what I say.

Quote:I'm not going to get into a debate with you over Liberatarianism.  But if you want to debate it, I'm sure Galen would be game.  Considering I'm not a Libertarian--but rather a Classical Liberal.

Same god damn thing.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Isn't it the GPS Awakening (Great Power Saeculum)? Or is this your own name for it?

GPS stands for Great Power Saeculum.  Just like CWS stands for Civil War Saeculum.  I do not claim credit for these abbreviations.  I believe I first saw them being used on the old forum by Mr. Horn.

You wrote incorrectly that the abbreviation was GSP.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Obviously not, since my own current religious affiliation descends from the GSP Awakening.

So are you admitting my long time charge that New Age is just a repackaging of the same old occult?

But it good that you recognize the GPS had an awakening.  I'd go further that since many of the religions/ideologies/technologies and so on from that era are with us today and still extremely relevant today that the whole saeculum on a Mega-level serves as an awakening..

Of course I know you're going to say "No its not because reasons."

The GPS was not a mega-awakening, but like every saeculum, it had an awakening, which, like all awakenings, included more than the usual amount of spiritual and religious movements. My current religious affiliation is one of them. The New Age is a major one of the most recent 2T. All real spiritual movements are in some sense a repackaging of the perennial philosophy, the default philosophy of humankind, which is spiritualist.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:There is little or no reference to ideologies by S&H

But there are plenty of references to political, social, cultural and religious ideas and formulations.  In modern English we call these things "ideologies".  Just because you have the understanding of a 14th century peasant doesn't mean the rest of us do as well.

In the case of the spiritual or what you call religious ideas, the important thing is not the ideas, but the experiences behind them. Just because you are an Xer and therefore seem to be allergic or immune to such experiences, does not mean the rest of us are as well.

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EtI Wrote:But the effect on this 4T may not happen this time, because of your cynical generation that has rejected everything that was conceived in the 2T.

It wouldn't be up to my generation to implement them anyway according to S&H.  But have you stopped to consider that those things conceived in the 2T have been found to be garbage and not worth implementing?  No of course not, that would mean laying blame on your generation and by extension yourself.

And yet you're doing that anyway.  Since your consciousness expands to the whole of the universe and beyond, by knocking Xers you're really knocking yourself.  I know you'll never admit that--it might for a tiny millisecond expose your whole worldview to be the fraud that it is.

Why should I knock Xers? I am just describing them as you describe yourself.

You admit that you reject the most recent 2T, so you have no part in implementing its ideas in the 4T, as proven by the fact that you very actively support the candidate whose sole mission is to oppose these ideas.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:As YOU have now done to an astonishing and exaggerated degree by supporting someone who totally opposes the ideals of the 2T, and is destroying every trace of it to the best of his ability.

I hope he destroys all of it.  The whole rotten structure must go.  Before we build our nice new Trump Style condo complete with gold toilet seats we have to bulldoze a lot of shit.

I'm not ashamed...of winning.  Winning is good.  I plan on winning so much I'll get tired of winning.

I plan on defeating you guys and your shameful, mistaken, rotten, ancient nonsense. Well, we'll see how it goes.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You didn't read S&H. Salvation through faith rather than works is the major perspective of Christian revivals during 2Ts.

Not quite.  Salvation through faith alone is a Lutheran precept and as such was a major feature of the Reformation.  All the awakenings that followed just changed the window dressing.

Take that up with S&H, who called it a prime feature of Awakenings.

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EtI Wrote:On the other hand, asking for consciousness, which is immeasurable

So Consciousness cannot be measured.

EtI Wrote:since it is infinite

Space is considered to be infinite and yet we can measure part of it.  But since it is not measurable (IE Immeasurable--your own words) how can we even know that it is even close to infinite.

Nonsense; infinite means it cannot be measured, and there is no such thing as "close to infinite."

Quote:You shouldn't care, but you do.  Don't tell me you don't, cause that only tells me you do.

I don't care, which is why I am not commenting further.

[Kinser79]

(03-14-2017, 09:26 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: Hillary is 1000 times more honest, good looking and authentic-sounding than Con-way, who cons her way all the time.

Eric on what planet? It certainly isn't Earth. Where have you been for the past 25 years? My thinking is this, even if $hillary were honest, good looking and authentic-sounding, I still wouldn't have voted for her. My thinking is if she couldn't satisfy Bill she wasn't going to satisfy me. Happy men don't go looking for strange.

(03-14-2017, 09:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I was wondering, are nomads the only generation who, resenting and rebelling against it, never have the chance or opportunity or willingness to have a spiritual awakening in their lives? Are they a type that never get touched by grace, as it were? Is this also true of early or middle-cohort civics?

Usually Nomads are to busy cleaning up Idealist messes to have time for a "spiritual awakening". Y'all get the party, we get to clean up the house before the parents show up.

Quote:I doubt that's true. But it seems to evade a lot of core and late Xers.

No it didn't evade us. We just didn't allow it to invade us.

Quote:I am so thankful for such awakening as I have had. I feel blest; it made such a difference to me, however much more of it I still may need or like to have. It enriched beyond measure my life, and that of many boomers and silents that I know or knew. And the best part of it was the first part of it, my first awakening in 1966-67.

So what you're saying here is you first dropped acid and lost yourself to the throws of a psychotropic drug back in 1966. And after that your brain was too fried to remember if you had any subsequent such events. Got it.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 10:32 AM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(03-14-2017, 09:32 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I was wondering, are nomads the only generation who, resenting and rebelling against it, never have the chance or opportunity or willingness to have a spiritual awakening in their lives? Are they a type that never get touched by grace, as it were? Is this also true of early or middle-cohort civics?

Usually Nomads are to busy cleaning up Idealist messes to have time for a "spiritual awakening". Y'all get the party, we get to clean up the house before the parents show up.

Quote:I doubt that's true. But it seems to evade a lot of core and late Xers.

No it didn't evade us. We just didn't allow it to invade us.

Well, you are certainly an example of one Xer who it didn't happen for.

It is typical of Marxists, and Xer former Marxists, to claim that spiritual experience and its cultures are just effete bourgeois indulgence. Tell that to all the poor people in India and China through the centuries, or the peasants of the European middle ages who flocked to pilgrimages and cathedrals.

Quote:

Quote:I am so thankful for such awakening as I have had. I feel blest; it made such a difference to me, however much more of it I still may need or like to have. It enriched beyond measure my life, and that of many boomers and silents that I know or knew. And the best part of it was the first part of it, my first awakening in 1966-67.

So what you're saying here is you first dropped acid and lost yourself to the throws of a psychotropic drug back in 1966. And after that your brain was too fried to remember if you had any subsequent such events. Got it.

Whenever you say "got it," it appears, is a sure sign that you didn't get it.

Some of us, including me, didn't need to drop acid or anything else to have this experience. Whatever little I did drop a bit later on just got in the way.

1966 was an awakening vibration wave that swept the country and the core blue boomer generation. And it affected many GIs and Silents as well, and later on even some Jones Boomers and Xers to some extent.

[Kinser79]

EtI Wrote:Thank you.

Giving you those points only brings you to zero.  You've spent two pages digging a hole.

EtI Wrote:It is getting too long and tiresome

You could always stop.  You know I'm not going to.  I'm told I have stamina...and get that idea out of your head you disgusting pervert.

EtI Wrote:you are just repeating yourself and not getting what I'm saying.

Two reasons for that.

1.  You're repeating yourself.

2.  You're not saying anything.

Seriously as is usual for our "debates" I spend more time coding than forming arguments.

EtI Wrote:well, it's still long and entirely useless

Yes it is useless to convince me that white is in fact black, wouldn't matter if you did it in 1 post or 500.  BTW you made me miss celebrating my 666th post.  

EtI Wrote:since it's probably too hard for anyone else to follow, even supposing anyone is interested....

You'd have to actually be leading somewhere for anyone to follow.  You can run really fast on a treadmill and still not go anywhere.  Probably explains why when I go to the gym I see tons of Boomers on the treadmill.  They like running but aren't interested in going anywhere.

I'd imagine they're not.  In fact when I see Dan I'm PMing him to split your bullshit from this thread.  It belongs somewhere other than here since we've been debating how you don't understand the very basics of philosophy (despite apparently having a degree in said field from UC Berkley--of course that might be the problem itself).

EtI Wrote:No you don't "got it." Everything is conscious; no measurement is necessary. Whatever you measure, is consciousness, since that's all there is. Now, it's true that measurement is not necessary to determine this truth. Whether it can actually be measured in some way, again I refer you to the other thread. Maybe.

So you can measure consciousness, you can't measure consciousness, whatever you do measure is consciousness.  Yeah.  Sorry that's a lot of words to say "I'm just typing stuff because I think it makes me sound smart even if it is complete gibberish."

EtI Wrote:No, the hate is on you.

Not quite Eric.  In order to hate you, I'd have to spend energy thinking about you when you're not in my immediate vicinity (forum wise--I'm not going to Commiefornia again [I hated that place the first time I was there in the Navy] and I doubt you'd last 5 minutes where I am, since you don't seem to have much in the way of street smarts).

As such I'm just passionately indifferent towards you.  But you think about me even when I'm not somewhere.  Don't think I've not seen your posts where you evoke my name.  Fortunately for you I'm nowhere near as consistent as Bettlejuice.  Say my name three times I may show up, but I'm just as likely to after 100 times or once.

EtI Wrote:Yes, but that self is everything.

I refer you back to our agreed upon definition of solipsism.

EtI Wrote:Do you think a human being exists separately? Again, that is against science.

I'm pretty sure that it is indisputable (but I'm sure you'll try) biological fact that each human is a discrete and concrete entity.  In English we use the word "person" to denote that entity.

EtI Wrote:I know all about zero, since that is the amount of matter that exists.

I doubt that you do know about zero at all.  I've confused you with the powers of zero already.

If there is Zero matter that exists then how are you posting? Without matter you don't exist, the machine you're using to post doesn't exist, the server this forum is located on doesn't exist, the electricity that powers both don't exist.

Only matter matters.

EtI Wrote:You are lying to yourself and ignorant of science, then, as I already explained.

This coming from the guy who once claimed that plants made a conscious decision to grow towards light.  This coming from a guy who thinks that astrology can explain anything.  And most importantly this coming from a guy who thinks pretty rocks have healing properties.

Thanks Eric you really made my day.  I've never seen someone so not self-aware as to completely project himself onto an other person.

EtI Wrote:The point is the ideas that many people hold, are the basis of the mindsets and moods of those who make up generations and create turnings, and respond to history in their way, etc.

The ideas that people hold are formed by their place in history, which creates their generation and their responses to their place in history create turnings.  Ideas are at most a byproduct of their time and place and not the cause of said time or place.  Otherwise I could make my house 14th century France simply by willing it (but I know, and hopefully--but I'm not holding my breath--you know that is an impossibility).

BTW I've conducted such an experiment...when I was five.  I could do it again but I don't expect different results without having a psychological break down.

EtI Wrote:Ignoring such ideas and mindsets

Is vital because unless I plan on claiming to be able to read minds I don't know what ideas people hold unless they tell me.  As such I'm stuck with measurable trends and events that actually happened.

EtI Wrote:You have made up your own mega-theory; it has nothing to do with S&H.

I'm open to that possibility.  However before I can accept that possibility as being true it would need to be demonstrated by someone who actually understands S&H theory (which excludes you--you may have the jargon down but your posts indicate you don't know what the jargon even means) that my hypothesis is not in fact based on S&H.  Even then that does not necessarily make it invalid.

The Two-Stroke Regulator for example is no where mentioned in S&H yet is readily accepted here.

Indeed the very idea of a mega-saeculum first came to me one day when I was winding my pocket watch.  I can't use quartz based watches for some reason--I can put on a brand new watch and it will stop in three days (inb4 EtI posts some mystical nonsense about that)--and I hate having shit on my wrists.

EtI Wrote:All you have explained here, is that you think those who disagree with you are stupid.

Not quite.  Read again.

But for the record I certainly think you are stupid.

EtI Wrote:You put it in the gilded age, which was a 1T, in both Europe and America

Really, perhaps you should re-read S&H.  I'm pretty sure both the 1880s and 1890s were not a 1T.  And that is where the majority of the work took place.

EtI Wrote:You as a former Marxist appear to have misunderstood it

Possible, but unlikely.  I've forgotten more about Marx than most people have ever learned.

EtI Wrote:since you have defected from its most essential insights

You do realize that Marxism is a materialist philosophy, and as such, according to you cannot have any "insights".

I think it's time for a Second Kinser's Law.

"On a long enough timeline the chances of Eric contradicting himself approaches one."

EtI Wrote:The Napoleonic wars era was definitely a 1T era in Europe.

LOL.  Even if you forgot everything you ever read about S&H you'd know that that  1848 is still 33 years after 1815.  Even if you propose that the Napoleonic Wars were 1T (which they weren't Again go read the Hornblower books or any other book about the topic for that matter) that would make it a 3T.

And that discounts the fact that we know that turnings are about a decade behind in Europe as compared to the US.  I'd argue because of an elongated 4T in the RevSaec Mega-Crisis.

EtI Wrote:Calling the Nation of Islam a religion is insane.

So they don't have a deity, they don't have religious rituals, and they don't have a theology?  Sorry but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck I have to assume in the absence of contradictory evidence that I have a small aquatic bird of family Anatidae.

EtI Wrote:There was clearly no spiritual awakening associated with its emergence. It is merely a kind of nationalist and ethnic extremism.

1.  Never claimed that there was.  Only you Eric have claimed that spiritual awakenings are required for the emergence of cults.  I've always argued that cults form and dissolve "all the time".  By "all the time" I mean of course without a specific juncture within the saeculum to be associated with.

2.  Is it your argument that religions preclude nationalist and/or ethnic extremism?  I mean you can make that argument you'd still be wrong though because the presence of one religion with nationalist or ethnic extremism would negate your point.

EtI Wrote:I read the Scientology books; I don't get my information about religions from stupid TV shows and sci fi. I studied that religion thoroughly, and you have not.

Are you sure you want to go there?  Anyone can get their books.  How do you think South Park got the material to write about?  They really do believe that that a space man put human souls on the Earth with a feet of space ships that look like Boeing 707s.  Ergo UFO cult.

Like I said, even if I had only read the Wikipedia (I didn't my mother almost got sucked into that garbage--seriously I think with some Boomers just saying something is 'spiritual' makes them want to play with fire) would still be more studying on the topic than you've ever done.

Your nonsensical defense of them more than proves it.  Or is there a deeper issue at play here?  Kinser dislikes X so I, Eric, must uphold X no matter how retarded.

EtI Wrote:That seems an incredibly stupid statement, even for you. NOI is not Islam because Malcolm converted to Islam by joining it?

Um....actually it should be self-evident that were NOI Islam Malcolm could not convert to Islam after his Hajj seeing as he would already have been a Muslim for a long long time.  Like I said one doesn't "convert" from being Baptist to being a Methodist.  Both are Christians, that's just changing the address of the church one attends.

EtI Wrote:The fact that it's taught in CA high school, where I also learned about it and liked it, is proof that it's influential.

And here we come to the crux of your argumentation as to why Emerson is "important".  Because You liked it.

You realize he's taught in FL as well, as also IL and IN.  However, for those of us with better things to do with our time we learned just enough to pass the test and then promptly forgot it like so much useless garbage it is. 

I think you fail to understand what is socially important and what is not.  

EtI Wrote:You admit my point. You exclude genuine spirituality from awakenings. No, lots of people are interested in it.

Not exactly.  Your point was that excluded all spirituality.  I'm not even sure what "genuine spirituality" even means, I'm taking it to mean "Spiritualities that Eric likes".  This is not the case.  I'm merely omitting those spiritualities which are socially irrelevant.

If you have a country with 1 million Christians, and 100 Jews and both have an Awakening, whose Awakening is more socially relevant?  Surely the Christians.  Did the one for the Jews happen?  Well surely it did.  But an event that only affects 0.0001% of the population is at best a rounding error and at worst lost in the noise to signal ratio.

EtI Wrote:The "we" collection is transcended in the experience of oneness, and the we becomes the one. That answers your discussion about we and one. But, we also remain individual expressions of the one.

Translation:  I'm making shit up because I don't like the way the people who speak English have defined English words.

Lets see if I can make this clear.  "We" is defined as a pronoun: 1. used by a speaker (or writer) to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together; 2.  used in formal contexts for or by a royal person, or by a writer or editor, to refer to himself or herself.

While you might think yourself a King, Eric, everyone else sees the Village Idiot so obviously definition 2 does not apply.  Language is a social construct after all.

As such, "We" can only be used in a collective sense.  Since there is a collective there must be a collection of descrete and concrete individuals.  That is to say more than one.  Ergo there is no one, but rather the many.

Thus:  "We are all one" is a nonsensical statement, usually uttered by those who believe themselves to be profound but are usually just insane.

EtI Wrote:[on Classical Liberalism and Libertarianism]Same god damn thing.

Not quite. Libertarians usually view no role for government in many issues taken up by the state and the federal government.  Classical liberals on the other hand think that except for enumerated powers, the federal government is usurping the state's power to exercise the roles reserved to them or to the people respectively.

Though from the Green Party we might look the same I assure you we are different. 

EtI Wrote:You wrote incorrectly that the abbreviation was GSP.

Not an argument because you and I both know we're talking about the Great Power Saeculum.  /molyneux

EtI Wrote:The GPS was not a mega-awakening, but like every seaculum, it had an awakening, which, like all awakenings, included more than the usual amount of spiritual and religious movements.

Again not an argument against my point.  A mega-awakening is the saeculum wherein the great ideas of the mega-saeculum emerge.  This can manifest, but doesn't always, in religious ideologies. 

EtI Wrote:My current religious affiliation is one of them.

Proving my point.  I'm not going to bother with the rest because it is nonsense.  I've already explained what the default "spirituality" is.

EtI Wrote:In the case of the spiritual or what you call religious ideas, the important thing is not the ideas, but the experiences behind them.

Wrong.  Mystical experiences are completely irrelevant on the social and historical plane.  Even with we agreed that these experiences occur, and I'm not sure that we do or don't, they cannot be shared amongst people.  At most they can be described or explained which leads us to....  Religious ideas on the other hand are extremely relevant.  The Apostle Paul had an experience on the road to Damascus--but was that experience the important thing in history or the fact that he converted to the Christian idea and then proceeded to spread that idea.

You could argue that had Paul not had that experience  he would not have become a Christian and then spread the Christian idea, but the point is moot because what he spread was the idea not the experience

EtI Wrote:Just because you are an Xer and therefore seem to be allergic or immune to such experiences, does not mean the rest of us are as well.

I would like to think that I am immune to insanity considering asylums are filled with people who've had mystical experiences.

EtI Wrote:Why should I knock Xers?

I don't see why not since you already do.  Its okay though, you'll all be dead soon and then we can have 15 or so years of peace before the world goes to hell again.

EtI Wrote:You admit that you reject the most recent 2T, so you have no part in implementing its ideas in the 4T, as proven by the fact that you very actively support the candidate whose sole mission is to oppose these ideas.

Eric, Eric, Eric.  I admitted that a long time ago.  I know it is difficult to keep up what with being everything, and everyone at all times and places but surely the Kinser part of your consciousness told you before I did that I soundly rejected everything associated with the 2T about the time I sprouted hair on my jimmy.

Yes, yes I did.  In fact I supported him precisely because he was opposed to those ideas.  But as you can see, we won, and are winning and I plan on winning so much that I get tired of winning.

EtI Wrote:I plan on defeating you guys and your shameful, mistaken, rotten, ancient nonsense. Well, we'll see how it goes.

Well that's your prerogative.  What specifically are you planning on doing.  Writing to GOP Congressmen?

Just remember we've got the numbers and we've got Generation Z coming up behind us and they HATE everything that came out of the 2T except the parts about not hating people on the basis of their race/sex/orientation.  Oh wait, the Silents did that part.

EtI Wrote:Nonsense; infinite means it cannot be measured, and there is no such thing as "close to infinite."

You should take that up with cosmologists.  So far as we know the universe is 14 billion light years across. but it is still expanding with no signs of slowing down so it could theoretically be infinite.  And yet we've already measured that 14 billion light years part.

So if an object is in fact infinite, we can indeed measure finite parts of that infinite thing.

EtI Wrote:I don't care, which is why I am not commenting further.

Honestly you shouldn't have commented to start with.  Every time you tangle with me you just make yourself look like a fool.

[Kinser79]

On spiritual nonsense:

EtI Wrote:Well, you are certainly an example of one Xer who it didn't happen for

Yes and thank the gods I escaped it.  Religion is a con job, I should know, my sperm donor is a coke dealer turned preacher.  Same job, just changed the drug.

EtI Wrote:It is typical of Marxists, and Xer former Marxists, to claim that spiritual experience and its cultures are just effete bourgeois indulgence.

1.  How many Xer former Marxists do you know.  If it is just me I don't think that qualifies as enough data to make a generalization.

2.  So-called spiritual experiences are effete bourgeois indulgences.  When you're concerned about where your next meal is coming from you don't have time to worry about the nature of god or whatever.  All religious ideas come from the bourgeoisie or petty-bourgeoisie.

EtI Wrote:Tell that to all the poor people in India and China through the centuries, or the peasants of the European middle ages who flocked to pilgrimages and cathedrals.

I'd argue that they were so miserable and so hungry that being told that there would be an afterlife of ease and bread sounded nice.  They didn't have reality tv so church had to do.  

EtI Wrote:Some of us, including me, didn't need to drop acid or anything else to have this experience.

Good to know that your mental illnesses are compltely natural then.  But just because of that I have no interest in trying it.  I do just fine with my holy herb.

EtI Wrote:1966 was an awakening vibration wave

That it happen to coincide with the peak of American economic power and Vietnam hadn't started ramping up is merely a coincidence I suppose. 

Considering contemplation of spiritual matters is a bourgeois endeavor (the poor merely practice organized religion as a means of escape) I can see why that year would be the year the world started going to hell.

Good thing that there won't be an American Empire to prop up this "republic" in the next saeculum.  We can get back to rebuilding infrastructure and debating ideas of substance.

[Mikebert]

Quote:But use of water and wind power machinery (apart from the Romans) was mostly absent until after the Black Death in Europe.

Water power was widespread use in medieval Europe.
 

Kinser Wrote:Probably also explains why you come out with a new model every week, whereas I've been working down this path methodically for months.

Methodically?  Really?

kinser Wrote:If you re-read my post I said "off the top of my head" which means Mike I didn't bother to look it up

 

Quote:As to the term "Constitutional Monarchy" I mean a monarchy that is limited either by a written or unwritten constitution. And I mean by more than a sheet of paper that asserts Barons have the feudal rights of barons.

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty (Kinser) said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”

[Kinser79]

Mike

1. the presence of a village mill does not make for wide spread application of the technology.

2. I make off the top of my head statements when "debating" with Eric all the time.

3. Yes, that is a common tactic on these boards. You use it yourself.

Get back to me when you have an argument on the topic.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 12:38 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I refer you back to our agreed upon definition of solipsism.

You are talking to yourself.

You can't stop arguing with me because you know that I am right.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Do you think a human being exists separately? Again, that is against science.

I'm pretty sure that it is indisputable (but I'm sure you'll try) biological fact that each human is a discrete and concrete entity.  In English we use the word "person" to denote that entity.

You flunk.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:I know all about zero, since that is the amount of matter that exists.

I doubt that you do know about zero at all.  I've confused you with the powers of zero already.

If there is Zero matter that exists then how are you posting?

Only matter matters.

That's right; nothing matters.

Spirit matters. I do everything in spirit. I am God in action and so is everyone and everything.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You are lying to yourself and ignorant of science, then, as I already explained.

This coming from the guy who once claimed that plants made a conscious decision to grow towards light.  This coming from a guy who thinks that astrology can explain anything.  And most importantly this coming from a guy who thinks pretty rocks have healing properties.

Thanks Eric you really made my day.  I've never seen someone so not self-aware as to completely project himself onto an other person.

Back atcha.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:The point is the ideas that many people hold, are the basis of the mindsets and moods of those who make up generations and create turnings, and respond to history in their way, etc.

The ideas that people hold are formed by their place in history, which creates their generation and their responses to their place in history create turnings.  Ideas are at most a byproduct of their time and place and not the cause of said time or place.  Otherwise I could make my house 14th century France simply by willing it (but I know, and hopefully--but I'm not holding my breath--you know that is an impossibility).

BTW I've conducted such an experiment...when I was five.  I could do it again but I don't expect different results without having a psychological break down.

With God, all things are possible. Without God, is impossible.

The more conscious you and I are of God, the more of His infinite potential and creative power and wisdom comes into our lives.

I want more of that. Don't you?

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You have made up your own mega-theory; it has nothing to do with S&H.

I'm open to that possibility.  However before I can accept that possibility as being true it would need to be demonstrated by someone who actually understands S&H theory (which excludes you--you may have the jargon down but your posts indicate you don't know what the jargon even means) that my hypothesis is not in fact based on S&H.  Even then that does not necessarily make it invalid.

The Two-Stroke Regulator for example is no where mentioned in S&H yet is readily accepted here.

Indeed the very idea of a mega-saeculum first came to me one day when I was winding my pocket watch.  I can't use quartz based watches for some reason--I can put on a brand new watch and it will stop in three days (inb4 EtI posts some mystical nonsense about that)--and I hate having shit on my wrists.

I claim I invented the two-stroke cycle, based on astrology. But I'm sure others thought of it too on their own. The same applies to the mega-cycle; others here got the idea before you did. But it's not valid. Maybe others like mikebert can help you with your own cycle ideology.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You put it in the gilded age, which was a 1T, in both Europe and America

Really, perhaps you should re-read S&H.  I'm pretty sure both the 1880s and 1890s were not a 1T.  And that is where the majority of the work took place.

Hardly. Marx died in 1883. The 2T began in 1886.

Quote:You do realize that Marxism is a materialist philosophy, and as such, according to you cannot have any "insights".

That's your idea, not mine. Yes, you have forgotten everything valuable about Marxism and have embraced its opposite, as you have told me here in this discussion.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:The Napoleonic wars era was definitely a 1T era in Europe.

LOL.  Even if you forgot everything you ever read about S&H you'd know that that  1848 is still 33 years after 1815.  Even if you propose that the Napoleonic Wars were 1T (which they weren't Again go read the Hornblower books or any other book about the topic for that matter) that would make it a 3T.

And that discounts the fact that we know that turnings are about a decade behind in Europe as compared to the US.  I'd argue because of an elongated 4T in the RevSaec Mega-Crisis.

A new Eric law: whatever kinser says is invalid.

Your dates are certainly invalid. I have already laid out the European turning dates

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Calling the Nation of Islam a religion is insane.

So they don't have a deity, they don't have religious rituals, and they don't have a theology?  Sorry but if it looks like a duck, and quacks like a duck I have to assume in the absence of contradictory evidence that I have a small aquatic bird of family Anatidae.

Yes, Islam has all those things.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:There was clearly no spiritual awakening associated with its emergence. It is merely a kind of nationalist and ethnic extremism.

1.  Never claimed that there was.  Only you Eric have claimed that spiritual awakenings are required for the emergence of cults.  I've always argued that cults form and dissolve "all the time".

Premise. Whatever kinser argues is invalid.
Argument: kinser argues cults dissolve all the time and that religions require no spiritual awakening
Conclusion: kinser's argument is invalid.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:I read the Scientology books; I don't get my information about religions from stupid TV shows and sci fi. I studied that religion thoroughly, and you have not.

Are you sure you want to go there?  Anyone can get their books.  How do you think South Park got the material to write about?  They really do believe that that a space man put human souls on the Earth with a feet of space ships that look like Boeing 707s.  Ergo UFO cult.

Like I said, even if I had only read the Wikipedia (I didn't my mother almost got sucked into that garbage--seriously I think with some Boomers just saying something is 'spiritual' makes them want to play with fire) would still be more studying on the topic than you've ever done.

Your nonsensical defense of them more than proves it.  Or is there a deeper issue at play here?  Kinser dislikes X so I, Eric, must uphold X no matter how retarded.

Whatever kinser says in invalid.
Kinser makes claims about his knowledge of scientology.
Conclusion: kinser's claims about scientology is invalid.

It seems to work. Kinser even claims to know that he's read more of scientology than I have, without even knowing how much I have read of it.

Kinser likes Trump
Those who like Trump, think like him
therefore kinser thinks like Trump.

That has been amply demonstrated. kinser probably thinks Obama bugged Trump Tower. Evidence does not matter to Trump, or to kinser.

Quote:You realize he's taught in FL as well, as also IL and IN.  However, for those of us with better things to do with our time we learned just enough to pass the test and then promptly forgot it like so much useless garbage it is. 

Of course. This disproves your claim that Emerson is only known in the northeast. No, he and other transcendentalists are known nationally as some of the most influential American writers.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You admit my point. You exclude genuine spirituality from awakenings. No, lots of people are interested in it.

Not exactly.  Your point was that excluded all spirituality.  I'm not even sure what "genuine spirituality" even means, I'm taking it to mean "Spiritualities that Eric likes".  This is not the case.  I'm merely omitting those spiritualities which are socially irrelevant.

If you have a country with 1 million Christians, and 100 Jews and both have an Awakening, whose Awakening is more socially relevant?  Surely the Christians.  Did the one for the Jews happen?  Well surely it did.  But an event that only affects 0.0001% of the population is at best a rounding error and at worst lost in the noise to signal ratio.

That all doesn't matter. Awakenings include large numbers of non-Christians and non-traditional Christians, in many cases, here in the USA. That's just a fact you choose to ignore, because traditional Christians are an easier target for you to ridicule even than new agers, and because non-traditional spiritualists have mystic experiences and traditional ones don't. I understand that you ridicule both.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:The "we" collection is transcended in the experience of oneness, and the we becomes the one. That answers your discussion about we and one. But, we also remain individual expressions of the one.

Lets see if I can make this clear.  "We" is defined as a pronoun: 1. used by a speaker (or writer) to refer to himself or herself and one or more other people considered together; 2.  used in formal contexts for or by a royal person, or by a writer or editor, to refer to himself or herself.

While you might think yourself a King, Eric, everyone else sees the Village Idiot so obviously definition 2 does not apply.  Language is a social construct after all.

As such, "We" can only be used in a collective sense.  Since there is a collective there must be a collection of descrete and concrete individuals.  That is to say more than one.  Ergo there is no one, but rather the many.

Thus:  "We are all one" is a nonsensical statement, usually uttered by those who believe themselves to be profound but are usually just insane.

No, it simply describes a fact about the members of "we". We are all one is a scientific fact. You deny science.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:[on Classical Liberalism and Libertarianism]Same god damn thing.

Not quite. Libertarians usually view no role for government in many issues taken up by the state and the federal government.  Classical liberals on the other hand think that except for enumerated powers, the federal government is usurping the state's power to exercise the roles reserved to them or to the people respectively.

Same damn thing. Small details like that don't matter. Classical liberals don't want the state to exercize much power either. It's all about less government.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You wrote incorrectly that the abbreviation was GSP.

Not an argument because you and I both know we're talking about the Great Power Saeculum.  /molyneux

Translation: you can't admit a mistake. But you corrected it anyway. And without my correction you'd still be writing "GSP"

Quote:

EtI Wrote:The GPS was not a mega-awakening, but like every saeculum, it had an awakening, which, like all awakenings, included more than the usual amount of spiritual and religious movements.

Again not an argument against my point.  A mega-awakening is the saeculum wherein the great ideas of the mega-saeculum emerge.  This can manifest, but doesn't always, in religious ideologies. 

The GPS Awakening was just an awakening like any other, including the one during which you were born, and all previous ones. It doesn't stand out as an Awakening from the others. It was a foundational time, but that's because of its position on the cycle of civilization as the start of one. Many things were begun then, but most of those changes and aspects of the new cycle were not awakenings.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:My current religious affiliation is one of them.

Proving my point.  I'm not going to bother with the rest because it is nonsense.  I've already explained what the default "spirituality" is.

As have I. That I am affiliated with a movement that originated in the GPS Awakening, merely illustrates that it was an Awakening, not a mega-awakening.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:In the case of the spiritual or what you call religious ideas, the important thing is not the ideas, but the experiences behind them.

Wrong.  Mystical experiences are completely irrelevant on the social and historical plane.  Even with we agreed that these experiences occur, and I'm not sure that we do or don't, they cannot be shared amongst people.  At most they can be described or explained which leads us to....  Religious ideas on the other hand are extremely relevant.  The Apostle Paul had an experience on the road to Damascus--but was that experience the important thing in history or the fact that he converted to the Christian idea and then proceeded to spread that idea.

You could argue that had Paul not had that experience  he would not have become a Christian and then spread the Christian idea, but the point is moot because what he spread was the idea not the experience

Out of his experience came his whole career as an apostle, and all his wisdom. Mystic experiences are shared all the time through the arts, philosophy, ceremonies, books, relationships, etc. They can be shared, because mystical experience is the foundational experience of all life everywhere. It IS life.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Just because you are an Xer and therefore seem to be allergic or immune to such experiences, does not mean the rest of us are as well.

I would like to think that I am immune to insanity considering asylums are filled with people who've had mystical experiences.

Go ahead, make my day. Prove this assertion with real statistics from real expert sources.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Why should I knock Xers?

I don't see why not since you already do.  Its okay though, you'll all be dead soon and then we can have 15 or so years of peace before the world goes to hell again.

Sorry, but many prophets live on into the 1T, especially now that life spans have increased. The Democratic House and Republican Senate leaders are Silents well into the 4T. They don't seem to be going anywhere. Boomers will have corresponding positions well into the 1T, although they may be mid to late boomers.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:You admit that you reject the most recent 2T, so you have no part in implementing its ideas in the 4T, as proven by the fact that you very actively support the candidate whose sole mission is to oppose these ideas.

Eric, Eric, Eric.  I admitted that a long time ago.  I know it is difficult to keep up what with being everything, and everyone at all times and places but surely the Kinser part of your consciousness told you before I did that I soundly rejected everything associated with the 2T about the time I sprouted hair on my jimmy.

Yes, yes I did.  In fact I supported him precisely because he was opposed to those ideas.  But as you can see, we won, and are winning and I plan on winning so much that I get tired of winning.

But will you never get tired of losing, once the saeculum rolls, and the ideas of the 2T form the 4T as they always do?

Quote:Just remember we've got the numbers and we've got Generation Z coming up behind us and they HATE everything that came out of the 2T except the parts about not hating people on the basis of their race/sex/orientation.  Oh wait, the Silents did that part.

Well, that's a big part that you yourself have thrown over by supporting Drump.

How do you know that today's 5 and 10 years olds hate the 2T? Prove it.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Nonsense; infinite means it cannot be measured, and there is no such thing as "close to infinite."

You should take that up with cosmologists.  So far as we know the universe is 14 billion light years across. but it is still expanding with no signs of slowing down so it could theoretically be infinite.  And yet we've already measured that 14 billion light years part.

So if an object is in fact infinite, we can indeed measure finite parts of that infinite thing.

Nope, you can't. If the universe is infinite, then the most you can ever say about it is that it is here and now, which is what mystics say. If anything is infinite, it rolls back to zero.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:I don't care, which is why I am not commenting further.

Honestly you shouldn't have commented to start with.  Every time you tangle with me you just make yourself look like a fool.

I am not tangling with you. That's how YOU roll. I am just amusing myself. Wasting time, no doubt. But, one of my mentors Alan Watts said that time is to be wasted.

[Kinser79]

EtI Wrote:You are talking to yourself.

Are you sure you don't have that backwards sunshine?  Were I talking to myself I'd have a far more productive and intelligent conversation.

EtI Wrote:You can't stop arguing with me because you know that I am right.

Actually I could stop at any time.  I'm just not going to.  I'll wear you down like I always do. Also if I knew you to be right I'd simply agree and not do this--I won't dignify it with the term debate--with you.  After all it isn't like you came out and said "Donald Trump is President" or "The sky is blue except when it isn't".

EtI Wrote:You flunk.

I'm not the one who has trouble with the word "we" here.  Since you aren't a king I don't think you can use the Royal version.

EtI Wrote:That's right; nothing matters.

Spirit matters. I do everything in spirit. I am God in action and so is everyone and everything.

ITT:  Moron claims that his actions have nothing to do with matter or its modifications.  Also proves once again that he's a nihilist.

EtI Wrote:Back atcha.

It is clear to me that you don't understand what projection is.  I'd post a link, but you'd not read it and claim it was wrong anyway because it "feels bad" or some bullshit.

Suffice it to say that when I say you're completely projecting yourself onto me, comming back with "back atcha" (which I assume to mean "back at you") you're not only saying that I'm completely right about your projection but that you literally want me to project yourself back onto you.

Are you so devoid of your own personality that you need to steal personality from others?  I've heard of psychic vampires but damn son.

EtI Wrote:With God, all things are possible. Without God, is impossible.

Later in your post you claim to be God.  Yet we've found something that is impossible for you.  To learn anything of any value or substance.  All you have is solipsism and a very pathetic version at that.

I'm not responding to the rest of that passage as it is meaningless drivel.

EtI Wrote:I claim I invented the two-stroke cycle, based on astrology. But I'm sure others thought of it too on their own. The same applies to the mega-cycle; others here got the idea before you did. But it's not valid. Maybe others like mikebert can help you with your own cycle ideology.

Obviously if you've claimed inventing it you have documentation.  Yes I know the old forum is gone but surely you saved something of "your seminal work".  I first encountered it in the writings of Chas 88.  Unfortunately it doesn't seem he's among us here as I used to really enjoy reading his work of theory.

I fully expect that others have come up with a four stroke cycle too.  I've read more than one type on the old forum.  I found each of them wanting.  They were incomplete in one aspect or an other.

I would welcome the input of Mike and others--which is why I put up the first two posts.  Generally that is why people put up posts on the theory of history forum.  Unfortunately Mike in particular seems to only want to nitpick our conversation--the others are probably munching popcorn waiting for you to tire, which you will.

EtI Wrote:Hardly. Marx died in 1883. The 2T began in 1886.

Which is why the major interpretation of Marx's work was started in the 2nd international (as I've pointed out twice).  Which was formed after Marx's death.  I understand that you, like most people, are ignorant of the history of Communist Philosophies but surely you'd have looked at Wikipedia.  I mean failure to do so, well it simply isn't kosher.

EtI Wrote:That's your idea, not mine.

Actually it isn't mine either.  Its Karl Marx's actually.  He's the one who put forward that his theories are based on materalism.  Indeed the major process of Marxist Inquirer is called Dialectical Materialism.  Did you fail Americanism Vs. Communism in school?  I know they had it when you were in school, my mother took such a class and you're not so old as to be very much older than her--10 years max.

EtI Wrote:Yes, you have forgotten everything valuable about Marxism and have embraced its opposite, as you have told me here in this discussion.

No I said I've forgotten more Marx than most people have ever learned.  That means pea-brain that I've learned much more Marxism than most people do, and managed to forget some of it and still know more about Marxism than said most people.

EtI Wrote:A new Eric law: whatever kinser says is invalid.

Then you can put me on ignore (as you're want to do) and not respond to anything I post.  But I have a feeling that won't happen. [Past behavior is an indication of future behavior.] You seem to project an awful lot so I'm starting to suspect that you're arguing with me because you know I'm right.

Not going to bother with dates because it is an irrelevancy.  It is clear to me you don't know the difference between turnings much less how a saeculum can act like a turning in a larger context.

EtI Wrote:Yes, Islam has all those things.

Not a point of contention in this "debate".  The Nation of Islam also has all of those things too.  Ergo it is also a religion.

EtI Wrote:Premise. Whatever kinser argues is invalid.
Argument: kinser argues cults dissolve all the time and that religions require no spiritual awakening
Conclusion: kinser's argument is invalid.

Is this the formal logic they taught you in Berkley?  No wonder you're so shitty at philosophy!

Your argument in this passage is not formulated as an argument and is therefore not valid.  Since you have no argument, your premise cannot be counted as a conclusion in a proof.   I mean this is the same type of non-argumentation I'd get from a toddler.  I mean I know you're an intellectual invalid but damn I'm starting to feel bad.

Well no not really.  That would require me to not be indifferent toward you.

I'm not going to waste my time with your other "Proofs".  They demonstrate your foolishness all on their own far better than my poor powers can achieve.

EtI Wrote:Of course. This disproves your claim that Emerson is only known in the northeast.

Good thing I never made such a claim then.  I said the Transcendentalist movement was only important in the Northeast. 

I can know about what Xi Jinping had for supper last night.  Doesn't make it important to America.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/President_...c_of_China

Just in case you were wondering who Mr. Xi is.

Not going to bother with which writer is more influential games.  They are unimportant.

EtI Wrote:That all doesn't matter. Awakenings include large numbers of non-Christians and non-traditional Christians, in many cases, here in the USA. That's just a fact you choose to ignore, because traditional Christians are an easier target for you to ridicule even than new agers, and because non-traditional spiritualists have mystic experiences and traditional ones don't. I understand that you ridicule both.

Not really.  Close to 80% of the population professes to be some type of Christian, followed by 15% which are Diest, Agnostic, or Atheist.  The other 5% is everything else.  These other religions in the context of the US are for all intents and purposes a rounding error.

As for targeting Christians, actually I find them to be less soft than New Age wackjobs like you Eric.  Christianity is by far not the most well thought out religion but it does have a long history of scholarship which does not involve pulling "data" from thin air.  Well minus all the god parts.

I do notice you didn't even attempt to refute my point that "genuine spirituality" means "Spirituality Eric likes".  Probably because it is self-evident to anyone who reads your posts.

EtI Wrote:No, it simply describes a fact about the members of "we". We are all one is a scientific fact. You deny science.

No.  The English word "we" as a concrete and discrete meaning.  It is unless one is a monarch, always used to denote a collective of persons, the speaker/writer and one or more others.  To say "We are all one" is to claim that this collective is a single body.  It may be, as a collective, but it is still composed of concrete and discrete individuals.

Has it really?  Then demonstrate the experiment by which it was shown to be a "fact".  Where are the measurements, the papers. 

I'll wait.

EtI Wrote:Same damn thing. Small details like that don't matter. Classical liberals don't want the state to exercize much power either. It's all about less government.

Not true.

Libertarians typically do not feel that any government should involve itself in the actions of the people, except in the defense of the lives of the citizenry, and their property and the state (should one exist).  Unless they modify this with corollaries they become in their purest form Anarcho-something.  There are Anarchists who are Communist and Anarchists who are Capitalist.

A Classical Liberal on the other hand finds government to be a necessary evil that must be instituted among men to protect their individual rights.  In the Context of the US specifically Classical Liberals wish for the Federal Government to concern itself with its enumerated powers plus the protection of those individual rights (as in many cases it has been shown through history that the states don't do a very good job of that) and leaving all the other pesky details of governance to the the states and/or the local government and/or the people themselves.

Not the same thing at all.  Though I will agree that the less power the government has the better I like it.  Did not the logic of violence currently require that we have at least a small professional army I'd essentially abolish it except for a very small officer corps and support staff--focusing military power instead on the Navy and Air Force.

But again that is due to the US's context.  Like Bismark said we are bordered on the top and bottom by weaklings and on both sides by fish.  We need a big navy cause I don't trust the fish.

EtI Wrote:Translation: you can't admit a mistake. But you corrected it anyway. And without my correction you'd still be writing "GSP"

I'm not going to take lessons on humility from a man who claims to be god.  The GSP thing is a typographical error most likely.  I don't always skim through long posts looking for commas and spelling errors.

EtI Wrote:The GPS Awakening was just an awakening like any other, including the one during which you were born, and all previous ones. It doesn't stand out as an Awakening from the others. It was a foundational time, but that's because of its position on the cycle of civilization as the start of one. Many things were begun then, but most of those changes and aspects of the new cycle were not awakenings.

The GPS awakening was an awakening and the GPS itself was a mega-awakening because it put forward the major themes for not only that saeculum but the one that followed it.  Just like the Reformation put forward the major themes for that saeculum and the one that followed it.

I notice you make the claim that the GPS is the start of your cycle.  I've yet to see you post more about your theories other than to shout "Wrong" in my threads.

If you plan on making claims bring evidence.

EtI Wrote:Out of his experience came his whole career as an apostle, and all his wisdom. Mystic experiences are shared all the time through the arts, philosophy, ceremonies, books, relationships, etc. They can be shared, because mystical experience is the foundational experience of all life everywhere. It IS life.

Wrong again skippy.  Paul's career may or may not have been caused by an experience.  As an experience he could have it subjectively, but for all we know it was a hallucination.  So what did Paul preach about?  He preached about the idea that there was this Jewish guy who got killed by the Romans was the son of YHWH and all the other assorted things dealing with that.

Assuming that mystical experiences do in fact exist, then how does one share it?  Telepathy?

No if they are an experience then they can only be experienced by the person experiencing them.  We can have no proof that someone else has had a mystical experience unless there is devised some empirical way to measure what happens physically to a person who has said mystical experience. 

Failing that:  We have at most their description of that experience, a description which could be truthful entirely, truthful mostly but fragmented (IE they don't remember all of it), or it is entirely a fabrication of their own mind (they are lying or they were hallucinating).

I've heard lots about mystical experiences but the closest I've ever come to one is while eating mushrooms.  I was convinced that a live oak tree was the tree of ages or some such nonsense.  (I recorded this session btw).  Needless to say the next day while I remembered the hallucination I realized it was a matter of being on drugs and not anything I should base my life on.

That said I will eat me some mushrooms if offered.  The trip is usually pleasant.

EtI Wrote:Go ahead, make my day. Prove this assertion with real statistics from real expert sources.

Don't need to.  There is a psychotic disorder called schizophrenia.  It has many incarnations, one of them includes being spoken to by gods and devils as well as other visual and auditory hallucinations.

Being talked to by gods sounds like a mystical experience to me and people are committed for it. So there you go.  I suggest taking it up with NM she's the Psychiatrist around here.

EtI Wrote:Sorry, but many prophets live on into the 1T, especially now that life spans have increased.

Lifespans have not increased.  Average life expectancy has.  Now I know you have problems with the properties of the number zero so I'm going to try for what seems to be the 50th time to explain how averages work.

Average:  Noun:  a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

If you have a population of 100 people and 1 lives to be 100, and 30 die before they are 5 and everyone is somewhere in the middle you can expect a number in the middle range to be the "Average Life Expectancy".  Because that is how "Averages" work.  You add up all the numbers generated from a set and divide by the total number of the set.

If those 30 who died before they were five live beyond age 5 say to even 20 or 30 it would increase the number.

Average Life Expectancy in the West has increased not because the Maximum Lifespan of humans has changed, but rather because more people are NOT dying younger.

I'm clearly not going to do a data set for you since I've tried that already and you still didn't get it.  I expect everyone else on the forum has passed 4th grade math though.

EtI Wrote:The Democratic House and Republican Senate leaders are Silents well into the 4T.

1.  The Senate being on a 6 year increment lags behind the rest of the country (just not as much as the SCOTUS).

2.  Sen. Durban was born in 1944 which most here classify as one of the very earliest of Boomers.  He certainly acts like a Boomer.

3.  In the Senate the leadership is less vital than the whole.  While there is still Boomer dominance X is making serious in roads.  X is already the majority in the House (oh and they are mostly GOP too)

EtI Wrote:They don't seem to be going anywhere. Boomers will have corresponding positions well into the 1T, although they may be mid to late boomers.

I doubt that.  So long as the Idealists are mostly in the drivers seat we can't and won't have a 1T.  They have to be politically and culturally irrelevant (being both ancient and infantile) in the 1T or did you not read the books?

Should the Boomers attempt to hang on past Trump's 8 years they will be so reviled that they will be thrown out in a wave election, probably some time around 2028.  Mike Pence was born in the middle of 1959 so if he's President he'll be the last Boomer in that office.  Honestly though, I doubt he will run.  69 is a difficult age to get elected and he's no Reagan and he's no Trump.

EtI Wrote:But will you never get tired of losing, once the saeculum rolls, and the ideas of the 2T form the 4T as they always do?

Actually we're winning. 

If the 2T was all about standing up to the "establishment, man", then we need to see who is the establishment.  It is the NeoCons in the GOP (they're on their way out) and the SJWs and Clintonistas in the Dims.  If for no other reason is why you don't have a President Hillary.

EtI Wrote:Well, that's a big part that you yourself have thrown over by supporting Drump.

Yes, I'm a total Uncle Tom because I support the most pro-gay, pro-black, pro-Latino (but legal ones only), pro-woman GOP President ever.  Yeah that makes me an Uncle Tom.

You do realize that Uncle Tom actually was the hero of that book right?  He sacrifice himself so black women and children could escape bondage.  Its a very good book that is rarely read these days.

EtI Wrote:How do you know that today's 5 and 10 years olds hate the 2T? Prove it.

Not all of Z is so young.  Some are teenagers already knowing nothing of the world before permanent war.  They have no use for SJWs or NeoCons.  I have one in my house. But if you're not adverse to Gavin....

EtI Wrote:Nope, you can't. If the universe is infinite, then the most you can ever say about it is that it is here and now, which is what mystics say. If anything is infinite, it rolls back to zero

Nope.  While the universe is believed to be infinite it can be measured.  How else do we know that Alpha Centarii is 4 light years away?

Also if something is infinite its value is not zero.  Zero has a value all its own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0#Mathematics

EtI Wrote:I am not tangling with you. That's how YOU roll. I am just amusing myself. Wasting time, no doubt. But, one of my mentors Alan Watts said that time is to be wasted.

Alan Watts is definitely smarter than you are.  But the same could be said of my cat.  If you are wasting your time then why bother.  As for me...it isn't a waste of time.  I enjoy making Eric the Ignoramus look like the ignoramus he is.  He never disappoints in providing me more than ample ammunition.

[Eric the Green]

(03-14-2017, 09:29 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Actually I could stop at any time.  I'm just not going to.  I'll wear you down like I always do. Also if I knew you to be right I'd simply agree and not do this--I won't dignify it with the term debate--with you.  After all it isn't like you came out and said "Donald Trump is President" or "The sky is blue except when it isn't".

Like I said, you can't stop because you know I'm right.

Quote:Moron claims that his actions have nothing to do with matter or its modifications.  Also proves once again that he's a nihilist.

See, like I said, you have trouble with "nihilism."

Matter is lack of action. Of course my actions can't have anything to do with "matter." "Matter" as you materialists describe it, cannot act.

Quote:I'm not responding to the rest of that passage as it is meaningless drivel.

Back atcha!

Quote:Obviously if you've claimed inventing it you have documentation.  Yes I know the old forum is gone but surely you saved something of "your seminal work".  I first encountered it in the writings of Chas 88.  Unfortunately it doesn't seem he's among us here as I used to really enjoy reading his work of theory.

No need; you would knock whatever I post. I'm sure it's on there but it goes back a long way. I don't have time to search for it just to respond to someone who doesn't debate respectfully or honestly.

Quote:I fully expect that others have come up with a four stroke cycle too.  I've read more than one type on the old forum.  I found each of them wanting.  They were incomplete in one aspect or an other.

I would welcome the input of Mike and others--which is why I put up the first two posts.  Generally that is why people put up posts on the theory of history forum.  Unfortunately Mike in particular seems to only want to nitpick our conversation--the others are probably munching popcorn waiting for you to tire, which you will.

That's silly. They can comment any time they like on your "theory." Mikebert is the most likely to comment, probably, and if he's only nitpicking, it's probably because he doesn't think much of it. Which would be the correct thought.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Hardly. Marx died in 1883. The 2T began in 1886.

Which is why the major interpretation of Marx's work was started in the 2nd international (as I've pointed out twice).  Which was formed after Marx's death.  I understand that you, like most people, are ignorant of the history of Communist Philosophies but surely you'd have looked at Wikipedia.  I mean failure to do so, well it simply isn't kosher.

Marx founded and started Marxism in 1848. If you claim it started in the 1890s in a 2T, you're just wrong. The 2T was when revisionism happened.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:That's your idea, not mine.

Actually it isn't mine either.  Its Karl Marx's actually.  He's the one who put forward that his theories are based on materialism.  Indeed the major process of Marxist Inquirer is called Dialectical Materialism.  Did you fail Americanism Vs. Communism in school?  I know they had it when you were in school, my mother took such a class and you're not so old as to be very much older than her--10 years max.

You conveniently forget your idea. Your idea is that if someone rejects materialism, (s)he rejects every part of Marxism. Not true. You have rejected the best parts of it and still embrace the worst.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Yes, you have forgotten everything valuable about Marxism and have embraced its opposite, as you have told me here in this discussion.

No I said I've forgotten more Marx than most people have ever learned.  That means pea-brain that I've learned much more Marxism than most people do, and managed to forget some of it and still know more about Marxism than said most people.

You know nothing whatever.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Yes, Islam has all those things.

Not a point of contention in this "debate".  The Nation of Islam also has all of those things too.  Ergo it is also a religion.

The Nation of Islam is Islam; period.

Quote:I do notice you didn't even attempt to refute my point that "genuine spirituality" means "Spirituality Eric likes".  Probably because it is self-evident to anyone who reads your posts.

No need to disprove a mere insult. The fact remains that genuine spirituality during Awakenings is not traditional or fundamentalist Christian, although it can also be Christian as well as other religions. Your statements devaluing non-Christian spirituality are mere prejudice against non-Christians.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:No, it simply describes a fact about the members of "we". We are all one is a scientific fact. You deny science.

No.  The English word "we" as a concrete and discrete meaning.  It is unless one is a monarch, always used to denote a collective of persons, the speaker/writer and one or more others.  To say "We are all one" is to claim that this collective is a single body.  It may be, as a collective, but it is still composed of concrete and discrete individuals.

Has it really?  Then demonstrate the experiment by which it was shown to be a "fact".  Where are the measurements, the papers. 

I'll wait.

Why wait? I already proved it. Just try to breathe without any connection to the environment, or eat, or drink, or even be conscious.

I'll wait.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Same damn thing. Small details like that don't matter. Classical liberals don't want the state to exercize much power either. It's all about less government.

Not true.

Libertarians typically do not feel that any government should involve itself in the actions of the people, except in the defense of the lives of the citizenry, and their property and the state (should one exist).  Unless they modify this with corollaries they become in their purest form Anarcho-something.  There are Anarchists who are Communist and Anarchists who are Capitalist.

A Classical Liberal on the other hand finds government to be a necessary evil that must be instituted among men to protect their individual rights.  In the Context of the US specifically Classical Liberals wish for the Federal Government to concern itself with its enumerated powers plus the protection of those individual rights (as in many cases it has been shown through history that the states don't do a very good job of that) and leaving all the other pesky details of governance to the the states and/or the local government and/or the people themselves.

Not the same thing at all.  Though I will agree that the less power the government has the better I like it.  Did not the logic of violence currently require that we have at least a small professional army I'd essentially abolish it except for a very small officer corps and support staff--focusing military power instead on the Navy and Air Force.

But again that is due to the US's context.  Like Bismark said we are bordered on the top and bottom by weaklings and on both sides by fish.  We need a big navy cause I don't trust the fish.

Same god damned thing, and the worst scam being perpetrated on Americans today. You piddling over details means less than nothing. No, classical liberalism is not merely concerned with federal power. It wants less state power too. It is merely the doctrine that less government is better. Libertarianism pure and simple.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Translation: you can't admit a mistake. But you corrected it anyway. And without my correction you'd still be writing "GSP"

I'm not going to take lessons on humility from a man who claims to be god.  The GSP thing is a typographical error most likely.  I don't always skim through long posts looking for commas and spelling errors.

You are god too.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:The GPS Awakening was just an awakening like any other, including the one during which you were born, and all previous ones. It doesn't stand out as an Awakening from the others. It was a foundational time, but that's because of its position on the cycle of civilization as the start of one. Many things were begun then, but most of those changes and aspects of the new cycle were not awakenings.

The GPS awakening was an awakening and the GPS itself was a mega-awakening because it put forward the major themes for not only that saeculum but the one that followed it.  Just like the Reformation put forward the major themes for that saeculum and the one that followed it.

I notice you make the claim that the GPS is the start of your cycle.  I've yet to see you post more about your theories other than to shout "Wrong" in my threads.

If you plan on making claims bring evidence.

I've posted about that many times here, or you can just read my website.
http://philosopherswheel.com/fortunes.htm

"Major themes" being put forward does not an Awakening make. An Awakening is described already by Strauss and Howe. That is quite sufficient; they nailed it fine.

Your mega-Awakening alleges to set the themes for the next 340 years or so, not the next 160 or so.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Out of his experience came his whole career as an apostle, and all his wisdom. Mystic experiences are shared all the time through the arts, philosophy, ceremonies, books, relationships, etc. They can be shared, because mystical experience is the foundational experience of all life everywhere. It IS life.

Wrong again skippy.  Paul's career may or may not have been caused by an experience.  As an experience he could have it subjectively, but for all we know it was a hallucination.  So what did Paul preach about?  He preached about the idea that there was this Jewish guy who got killed by the Romans was the son of YHWH and all the other assorted things dealing with that.

Assuming that mystical experiences do in fact exist, then how does one share it?  Telepathy?

No if they are an experience then they can only be experienced by the person experiencing them.  We can have no proof that someone else has had a mystical experience unless there is devised some empirical way to measure what happens physically to a person who has said mystical experience. 

Failing that:  We have at most their description of that experience, a description which could be truthful entirely, truthful mostly but fragmented (IE they don't remember all of it), or it is entirely a fabrication of their own mind (they are lying or they were hallucinating).

I've heard lots about mystical experiences but the closest I've ever come to one is while eating mushrooms.  I was convinced that a live oak tree was the tree of ages or some such nonsense.  (I recorded this session btw).  Needless to say the next day while I remembered the hallucination I realized it was a matter of being on drugs and not anything I should base my life on.

That said I will eat me some mushrooms if offered.  The trip is usually pleasant.

Paul preached wisdom, not just "about an idea about a Jewish guy." A mystical experience reveals certain truths to people that are common to all people everywhere. If another person has an inkling of it, communications about it can be meaningful. A teacher can point the way to someone open-minded to look at the facts that mystical experience demonstrates. That excludes you; you are not open-minded, and refuse to look at self-evident truth, so you can't have the experience.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Go ahead, make my day. Prove this assertion with real statistics from real expert sources.

Don't need to.  There is a psychotic disorder called schizophrenia.  It has many incarnations, one of them includes being spoken to by gods and devils as well as other visual and auditory hallucinations.

Being talked to by gods sounds like a mystical experience to me and people are committed for it. So there you go.  I suggest taking it up with NM she's the Psychiatrist around here.

Sorry, you brought no evidence for your mindless assertion. Just as I thought. No, mental wards are not full of mystics. Mystics are the sanest people. You don't qualify. You are nuts.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Sorry, but many prophets live on into the 1T, especially now that life spans have increased.

Lifespans have not increased.  Average life expectancy has.  Now I know you have problems with the properties of the number zero so I'm going to try for what seems to be the 50th time to explain how averages work.

Average:  Noun:  a number expressing the central or typical value in a set of data, in particular the mode, median, or (most commonly) the mean, which is calculated by dividing the sum of the values in the set by their number.

If you have a population of 100 people and 1 lives to be 100, and 30 die before they are 5 and everyone is somewhere in the middle you can expect a number in the middle range to be the "Average Life Expectancy".  Because that is how "Averages" work.  You add up all the numbers generated from a set and divide by the total number of the set.

If those 30 who died before they were five live beyond age 5 say to even 20 or 30 it would increase the number.

Average Life Expectancy in the West has increased not because the Maximum Lifespan of humans has changed, but rather because more people are NOT dying younger.

I'm clearly not going to do a data set for you since I've tried that already and you still didn't get it.  I expect everyone else on the forum has passed 4th grade math though.

I've heard that theory; I disagree. No time to disprove yours right now. But the fact that Pelosi and McConnell and McCain and Feinstein et al are doing just fine as leaders proves my point. Boomers will be leaders too well into the 1T.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:But will you never get tired of losing, once the saeculum rolls, and the ideas of the 2T form the 4T as they always do?

Actually we're winning. 

If the 2T was all about standing up to the "establishment, man", then we need to see who is the establishment.  It is the NeoCons in the GOP (they're on their way out) and the SJWs and Clintonistas in the Dims.  If for no other reason is why you don't have a President Hillary.

trump and all the other oligarchs are the Establishment, and you support it fanatically. You support oligarchy now.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Well, that's a big part that you yourself have thrown over by supporting Drump.

Yes, I'm a total Uncle Tom because I support the most pro-gay, pro-black, pro-Latino (but legal ones only), pro-woman GOP President ever.  Yeah that makes me an Uncle Tom.

You do realize that Uncle Tom actually was the hero of that book right?  He sacrifice himself so black women and children could escape bondage.  Its a very good book that is rarely read these days.

You support Uncle Tom, since Drump is the least pro-gay, pro-Latino, pro-woman president ever. You are a traitor.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:How do you know that today's 5 and 10 years olds hate the 2T? Prove it.

Not all of Z is so young.  Some are teenagers already knowing nothing of the world before permanent war.  They have no use for SJWs or NeoCons.  I have one in my house. But if you're not adverse to Gavin....

super Baloney. There's no Zer over 12.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:Nope, you can't. If the universe is infinite, then the most you can ever say about it is that it is here and now, which is what mystics say. If anything is infinite, it rolls back to zero

Nope.  While the universe is believed to be infinite it can be measured.  How else do we know that Alpha Centauri is 4 light years away?

Also if something is infinite its value is not zero.  Zero has a value all its own.

If the universe is infinite, then four light years means nothing. It's all here and now, period, and nothing but here and now. Motion is relative; distance is relative. Space and time, matter and energy are relative concepts; illusions if seen as anything but relative. The fact is, everything is connected and there is nothing measurable at all. Show me an inch in nature anywhere. That doesn't stop me from constructing a ruler, or measuring light years. But since the universe is infinite, such measurements are only relative and ultimately just concepts in your mind. Kant comes home to roost.

If anyone travels to Alpha Centauri, they will still be here when they get there. From the point of view of experience, anyone is always "here and now" and nowhere else. Here is everywhere in an infinite universe. Think I'm dribbling? Try a thought experiment. Go beyond the visible universe. Go on, keep going. Keep going. Pretty soon, if you go fast enough, beyond all objects, your motion is nothing. Motion is relative to objects moved against. A universe that just goes on and on is redutio ad absurdum.

Quote:

EtI Wrote:I am not tangling with you. That's how YOU roll. I am just amusing myself. Wasting time, no doubt. But, one of my mentors Alan Watts said that time is to be wasted.

Alan Watts is definitely smarter than you are.  But the same could be said of my cat.  If you are wasting your time then why bother.  As for me...it isn't a waste of time.  I enjoy making Eric the Ignoramus look like the ignoramus he is.  He never disappoints in providing me more than ample ammunition.

Yet you always fail.

I am not an Ignoramus. I am a hippopotamus. From top to bottomus.

[Kinser79]

EtI Wrote:Like I said, you can't stop because you know I'm right.

Well it's good to know you don't understand how arguments work.

EtI Wrote:See, like I said, you have trouble with "nihilism."

Matter is lack of action. Of course my actions can't have anything to do with "matter." "Matter" as you materialists describe it, cannot act.

1.  Never denied I had trouble with nihilism.  It is the ultimate expression of idealism.

2.  Wrong.  Even if I were to agree that "spirit" was the acting force, it would still act upon matter to be detected.  An undetectable force acting on an other undetectable force is undetectable.

EtI Wrote:Back atcha!

So you agree that the vast majority of your posts are meaningless drivel.  Excellent we're getting somewhere.

EtI Wrote:No need; you would knock whatever I post. I'm sure it's on there but it goes back a long way. I don't have time to search for it just to respond to someone who doesn't debate respectfully or honestly.

1.  I'm going to take that as evidence that Eric in fact did not invent any 2 stroke theory. 
2.  I'm going to take that as evidence that even if he did he doesn't have documentation of it (which is essentially the same as 1).
3.  There is no need to be respectful towards those who have done nothing to earn my respect.  Respect is earned, the furthest I'm going to go is to treat others as I would like to be treated until they treat me differently.  Since you Eric already have, well you get exactly what you deserve.  So I guess it all comes back in the end now doesn't it.

EtI Wrote:That's silly. They can comment any time they like on your "theory." Mikebert is the most likely to comment, probably, and if he's only nitpicking, it's probably because he doesn't think much of it. Which would be the correct thought.

Or perhaps they are waiting for the village idiot to go away so they can examine it.  Their silence gives me several distinct outcomes though.

1.  What I'm describing is pretty much what they've already concluded independently. Which makes it boring.
2.  What I'm describing is nothing more than a culmination of existing theories compacted into one format.
3.  I'm completely wrong but they're digging up actual evidence because I'm going to ask hard questions as soon as they do say anything.  And yet so far the only person who has commented (except to nitpick) is someone who has neither evidence nor argument.

Furthermore I don't think you're in a position to tell me what Mike thinks.  He may or may not think much of this theory.  I don't think much of many of his.  The man can speak for himself.

EtI Wrote:Marx founded and started Marxism in 1848. If you claim it started in the 1890s in a 2T, you're just wrong. The 2T was when revisionism happened.

Marx was not himself a Marxist, so it would be pretty hard for him to have found it then.  Marx had almost no followers except for Engels (who was basically his sugar daddy) until the founding of the first international.  Marx's ideas did not gain traction until the second international which happened in the GPS 2T.  To deny this is to deny recorded history.  Indeed the term Marxism didn't even get coined until late in the 1st international.

I know that facts are usually inconveniences for you Eric but those are the facts.

EtI Wrote:You conveniently forget your idea. Your idea is that if someone rejects materialism, (s)he rejects every part of Marxism. Not true. You have rejected the best parts of it and still embrace the worst.

Really?  So Karl Marx went off and studied some sort of mystical nonsense then rather than the modes and methods of production in Mid-19th century Britain?  You sure you want to go there cause the Collected works of Karl Marx would go against that.  All 50 volumes of them. 

Marxism is a materialist philosophy and no amount of word play is going to change that fact.  A rejection of materialism as a whole necessitates a rejection of Marxism--every part of it.  A rejection of Marxism does not necessitate a rejection of materialism.  There are plenty of non-Marxist materialist philosophers.

Lenin Wrote:The philosophy of Marxism is materialism. Throughout the modern history of Europe, and especially at the end of the eighteenth century in France, where a resolute struggle was conducted against every kind of medieval rubbish, against serfdom in institutions and ideas, materialism has proved to be the only philosophy that is consistent, true to all the teachings of natural science and hostile to superstition, cant and so forth. The enemies of democracy have, therefore, always exerted all their efforts to “refute”, under mine and defame materialism, and have advocated various forms of philosophical idealism, which always, in one way or another, amounts to the defence or support of religion.

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/w...ar/x01.htm


I must therefore conclude that you did indeed fail your Americanism vs. Communism course in high school.  And I'm being generous here, magnanimous even.

EtI Wrote:The Nation of Islam is Islam; period.

So then you're telling me that all Muslims believe that white people were created by a "scientist" on the Island of Patmos called "Yakub", that these same Muslims all believe that white people are the embodiment of Satan, and that Islam itself is only open to black peoples and that the final prophet is Elijah Muhammad.

I'm no Imam, but I already know from a cursory glance of Sunni and Shia materials that have been translated into English that all of these components are in direct contradiction to mainline Islam.  And the last one precludes the NOI from being Islmamic entirely because Muhammad (the Arabian one) is supposed to be the last prophet of Allah.

In short Osama Bin Ladin would call Louis Farrakhan an infidel.  And on the basis of mainline Islam (let alone the strict puratanical Wahabbite version Bin Ladin believed in) Bin Ladin would be correct.

But that is not the point.  The Nation of Islam for all its faults does indeed have a theology, with a deity and all the other trappings of a religion.  It is Islamic in name only.  Which is why and how Malcolm X could convert to Islam.  It runs far deeper than "I don't like this preacher I'm going to the mosque across the street".

EtI Wrote:No need to disprove a mere insult

Wrong.  The sentence:  "I suppose 'real spirituality' is any 'spirituality that Eric likes'".  Is a statement.  The sentence:  "Eric is a moron."  Is an insult.  Unfortunately it insults morons, I imagine you should strive to learn enough to one day be classified as a moron.

EtI Wrote:The fact remains that genuine spirituality during Awakenings is not traditional or fundamentalist Christian, although it can also be Christian as well as other religions. Your statements devaluing non-Christian spirituality are mere prejudice against non-Christians.

I never claimed that "genuine spirituality" didn't have to take traditional or even fundamentalist Christian forms.  That is a straw man argument you insist on tackling.  I said that in Majority Christian Countries (such as the US) non-Christian phenomena are of lesser social importance.  It is like arguing that the salinity of the Atlantic Ocean has been changed because I pissed into it.

As for having non-Christian prejudice...well if it makes you feel better I'm the wrong kind of black according to some people too.  Considering I'm still an atheist, having seen no evidence for god(s), I'm certainly not a Christian.

EtI Wrote:Why wait? I already proved it. Just try to breathe without any connection to the environment, or eat, or drink, or even be conscious.

I'll wait.

Air is matter, not this "mystical" spirit nonsense you keep bringing up.  Furthermore the atmosphere would exist whether you or I did.  Holding my breath is not a valid test for "We are all connected".

But I do have one.  You can send me a telepathic message.  I might not be able to measure it but I would experience it.  Observation is typically the first step to devising a hypothesis which can lead to an experiment.

I'll wait.

EtI Wrote:Same god damned thing, and the worst scam being perpetrated on Americans today. You piddling over details means less than nothing. No, classical liberalism is not merely concerned with federal power. It wants less state power too. It is merely the doctrine that less government is better. Libertarianism pure and simple.

Still wrong and still not an argument.  /molyneux

I'm not going to comment further because you're as clueless about libertarianism and classical liberalism as you are Marxism.  Seriously dude I know I pay social security taxes buy a fucking clue already.

EtI Wrote:You are god too.

Really and what sort of evidence do you have for that?  And I mean real evidence not some solipsistic clap trap about "we are all one" and other New Age woo woo.  If I'm god and you are god, prove it empirically.  Anything else is beneath consideration.  Woo-woo might stroke your ego but it does absolutely nothing for mine.  If I want to be told how great I am I have a boyfriend to do it.

I'm going to skip over your rehashing of an other post to your website.  I already told you I'm not going there.  Mostly because I don't want to lose my lunch over the color scheme.  Also you added nothing in that passage other than your usual drivel about Kinser is wrong because Kinser.

EtI Wrote:Paul preached wisdom,

That is debatable.  Have you read the New Testament?

EtI Wrote:not just "about an idea about a Jewish guy."

Yeah, he pretty much did preach exactly about a Jewish Guy who was supposedly the son of YHWH.  That's sort of the basis of Christianity, that Jesus Christ is the Jewish God's son.  Again have you read the New Testament?

EtI Wrote:If another person has an inkling of it, communications about it can be meaningful.

So these experiences, like all other experiences can only be described to other people, not directly shared with them.  This addressed my point how exactly?  No, wait, I know this one.  It didn't.  It is some bullshit you posted thinking you'd make yourself appear smarter than you really are.

Let us take experiences outside of the woo-woo realm and discuss sushi for a moment.  I don't know if you have had or like sushi but that's not relevant, it is conceivable that you've eaten some at some point--in fact most people on this board probably have.  We could discuss the texture of the rice, the combinations of fish and seaweed, the cut of the fish and so forth.  But the point is we would require a frame of reference to start with.

It would be impossible for me to have a conversation about sushi with a Bushman for example.  They simply have no frame of reference.

The rest of your passage is a bunch of shit as usual.  It is clear to everyone that I've not had a Mystical Experience as you'd define it, and well I'm about as likely to have one as a Bushman is to go to a New York sushi bar.  Because I'm closed minded?  No.  Because for the most part these experiences seem to be centered on the insane, and feeble minded.  I'm neither so....

EtI Wrote:Sorry, you brought no evidence for your mindless assertion

Didn't need to.  I didn't make an assertion.  I said that your assertion is bullshit which means the burden of proof is on you, the person making the original assertion.  It is logically impossible to prove a negative.  Just as we don't prove someone in court innocent.

EtI Wrote:Mystics are the sanest people.

I wouldn't be so sure of that.  You're a mystic and you probably need to be in a mental ward.  I'd venture to guess the only reason you're not is you're only a threat to other people's wallets and not their person.

Myself when I hear people say "God talks to me" I automatically think "You need to be on thorazine".

EtI Wrote:I've heard that theory; I disagree. No time to disprove yours right now

Translation:  Kinser said something that was true and I have to disagree but I have absolutely no evidence to back myself up, do not even have mystical nonsense to attempt to befuddle him and everyone else with bullshit.

As I suspected.

EtI Wrote:But the fact that Pelosi and McConnell and McCain and Feinstein et al are doing just fine as leaders proves my point. Boomers will be leaders too well into the 1T.

Pelosi still leading the Dims in the House is evidence of their party's weakness.  They are doubling down on the very things that have lost them major bench coverage in the House and the states.

McConnell is still relatively healthy and leads primarily through delegating tasks.  He's never been exactly hands on.  McCain is actually reviled by everyone in the GOP now except for the NeoCons which if the Dims have a hope of surviving they're going to take on board due to party-shift.

Feinstein is a joke.

It should be noted that neither McCain nor Feinstein are in senate leadership except perhaps as committee chairs/ranking members and well they had to pick someone and the Senate goes on seniority.

It should be noted that usually after the 4T ends Congress has a massive purge, and those who get purged are almost always Prophets and their Nomad Hangers on.  See the 1866 mid-terms and 1946 mid-terms.

Assuming the end date for the 4T is 2028 then the mid-term following it will be 2030 but it may be as late as 2032.

Sorry but even the youngest Boomers are going to be far too old to be in the drivers seat.  Y'all won't live forever.  Thank whatever gods may exist for that too.

EtI Wrote:trump and all the other oligarchs are the Establishment, and you support it fanatically. You support oligarchy now.

We really need a ROFLMAO emoji.

I know you only consume fake news Eric, but still, even you should know that Trump's biggest enemies in DC are not the Dims.  Trump's biggest threat are the establishment GOP--Lyin' Ryan and the like. I believe Rags said something along the lines of Gingrich "Newts don't care to have their swamps drained."  As such he clearly is not part of the establishment.  He may or may not be an oligarch, but I'm fine with that.

I think the Dims don't want the swamp drained because they buried some bodies in there.  

Well I'm not an anarchist that's for sure.  As for financially supporting oligarchy, well yeah.  If I don't pay my taxes men with guns will come to my house and put me into a cage.  I don't like putting my cat into a cage, I have a feeling I wouldn't like being in a cage myself either.  I will say this though I support having less oligarchy than more oligarchy which cannot be said of you.

EtI Wrote:You support Uncle Tom, since Drump is the least pro-gay, pro-Latino, pro-woman president ever. You are a traitor.

Actually yes, considering I've read Uncle Tom's Cabin yes I would say Uncle Tom was the hero in that book.  Really the other stuff. 

1.  Daddy doesn't want to import people who want to throw me and my bf off roofs.  That's a big plus in his column.  the Dims want to import them by the ship loads.  Bad Dims, Bad!

2.  Daddy has hired loads of women for his cabinet and  White House staff not to mention there are more Female Executives in the Trump Organization than in any other major conglomerate.  Furthermore he did even better, he hired those women cause they were good and knew their shit, not because "has vagina" like the Dims would.  So Daddy's smart while the Dims are well dim.

3.  Considering some of the backward assholes that have been president he'd be hard pressed to be the most backward of them if he tried.  Wilson a darling of the Dimocrat party set race relations back by decades during his tenure and re-segregated governmental offices that had been integrated under William McKinley!  In short Republicans care about qualifications, Dimocrats care about skin color.

4.  Treason is legally defined as giving aid and comfort to the enemy of these United States, per the Constitution (an other document I know you've never read).  Unless one is going to make the STUPID argument that the President of these United States is in fact an enemy of these United States I cannot possibly be a traitor.

On the other hand wanting to change the demographics of the country very well could be considered treason.  After all the Dims want to import military aged men from a demographic which is overwhelmingly terroristy.

Yes terroristy is a word, I just coined it.

EtI Wrote:super Baloney. There's no Zer over 12.

Eric people have trouble putting birth years on Millies too.  I know Howe seems to think the oldest were born some time around 2005, he could be right.  But I find that those born in 1999, 2000, and 2001 are heavily conservative already.  Even if they are very late wave Millies they are a whisper of things to come.  Or have you conveniently forgotten all about generational cusps being a thing.

EtI Wrote:<snip> Eric denying science</snip>

Let me put it simply.  If space is infinite, and we can measure the distance between earth and alpha centaurii then the infinite can be at least partially measured.  My point stands.

EtI Wrote:Yet you always fail.

Depends on what your definition of fail is.  If I expose you for the ignoramus you are then I have succeeded.  So far I've always succeed.