Book: Are Baby Boomers A ‘Generation Of Sociopaths’?

[David Horn]

(07-13-2022, 10:35 PM)JasonBlack Wrote:

Quote:The Boomers did not invent child abuse; far from it

I at least would never make that claim. 2T boomers were negligent, irresponsible and trying to rebel against a world they had not yet taken the time to understand, but they weren't particularly sadistic or especially cruel. imo, they corrected for many of these traits in the 3T where they doubled down on responsible parenting with varying degrees of success.

That's a great point, but one that needs a bit of clarification.  We grew-up in a world where the ugly parts were purposely hidden, so naiveté was virtually guaranteed.  We knew right from wrong (more than can often be said today), but we lacked the abilty to see the many shades of gray, where ideal was simply unavailable and good-enough seemed inadequate.  So yes, we screwed up a lot, but our hearts being in the right place is a sour excuse.  Cnicism won far too often, and is now the de facto standard.  We're tired; we can't fix it.  I only hope we raised you all well enough to do it for us.

[JasonBlack]

(07-14-2022, 10:16 AM)David Horn Wrote: That's a great point, but one that needs a bit of clarification.  We grew-up in a world where the ugly parts were purposely hidden, so naiveté was virtually guaranteed.  We knew right from wrong (more than can often be said today), but we lacked the abilty to see the many shades of gray, where ideal was simply unavailable and good-enough seemed inadequate.  So yes, we screwed up a lot, but our hearts being in the right place is a sour excuse.  Cnicism won far too often, and is now the de facto standard.  We're tired; we can't fix it.  I only hope we raised you all well enough to do it for us.

Right, they were naive in the 2T, corrected during the 3T. Though many could still use some work. As a group, they still have a tendency to give overly general advice, where millennials will sit down with you and hash out specific circumstances before offering a potential solution.

Just this other day this happened with my dad, a '51 cohort boomer. He's always been a gentle soul (the millennial characterization of boomers as Social Darwinists does not stand up at all), but I don't think he's ever been super poor in his life. I work two jobs to pay the bills. One is quite low wage, the other isn't paying out anything yet because I'm not profitable (I stock trade for a prop company in the morning, but it generally takes a year or so to really learn the ropes and become profitable). He lives in Kansas while I live all the way out in South Carolina, so all things considered...trying to get time off work to go see family is quite a task. Generally something I need to plan about 2 months in advance.

In about a week, I'm taking a long trip to go see the folks, and he's all like "you might want to consider coming earlier because___" and so I have to explain to him why you can't just change the dates I've scheduled off work at the drop of a hat. He is not a keeping-up-with-the-Joneses style boomer. In fact, he's extremely frugal and grateful for what he has, but sometimes he forgets that what might have been a straightforward issue for him is a lot less so for people in other situations.

[Eric the Green]

(07-14-2022, 10:16 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-13-2022, 10:35 PM)JasonBlack Wrote:

Quote:The Boomers did not invent child abuse; far from it

I at least would never make that claim. 2T boomers were negligent, irresponsible and trying to rebel against a world they had not yet taken the time to understand, but they weren't particularly sadistic or especially cruel. imo, they corrected for many of these traits in the 3T where they doubled down on responsible parenting with varying degrees of success.

That's a great point, but one that needs a bit of clarification.  We grew-up in a world where the ugly parts were purposely hidden, so naiveté was virtually guaranteed.  We knew right from wrong (more than can often be said today), but we lacked the abilty to see the many shades of gray, where ideal was simply unavailable and good-enough seemed inadequate.  So yes, we screwed up a lot, but our hearts being in the right place is a sour excuse.  Cnicism won far too often, and is now the de facto standard.  We're tired; we can't fix it.  I only hope we raised you all well enough to do it for us.

I don't know if we quite did that. It is still up to us Boomers to lead. 

It's true not enough blue boomers have stepped forward to lead who can actually win, and no blue Gen Xers have. Is that because they are tired, or just too cynical about politics? Although Jones Boomers started out as conservative, they became more evenly divided later. From that group there are politicians who can win, but they haven't stepped forward either. So we are stuck with the Silent/Boomer cuspers who are still leading us. And we may have to settle for them.

Maybe it's that Uranus-Neptune trine they were born with. They were always the leaders of our "sixties generation"

We Boomers not necessarily tired. We can lead, even if not as top political leaders. We can't fix it alone though, because we are too divided. We especially need the millennials to be truly civic and thus participate and be liberal, and help lead too.

[JasonBlack]

(07-19-2022, 03:55 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: I don't know if we quite did that. It is still up to us Boomers to lead. 
It's true not enough blue boomers have stepped forward to lead who can actually win, and no blue Gen Xers have. Is that because they are tired, or just too cynical about politics? Although Jones Boomers started out as conservative, they became more evenly divided later. From that group there are politicians who can win, but they haven't stepped forward either. So we are stuck with the Silent/Boomer cuspers who are still leading us. And we may have to settle for them.
Maybe it's that Uranus-Neptune trine they were born with. They were always the leaders of our "sixties generation"

We Boomers not necessarily tired. We can lead, even if not as top political leaders. We can't fix it alone though, because we are too divided. We especially need the millennials to be truly civic and thus participate and be liberal, and help lead too.

I'm less concerned with which side millennials choose, and more concerned that they implement better real-world policy. Liberals are characterized as communist and riotous, conservatives as Social Darwinist and racist, but honestly, I don't see the majority of Americans fit any of these characteristics. When we get past the bombastic characterizations of the other side, most Americans want some form of low racism, high personal freedom, some level of environmental responsibility and better functioning institutions. Imo, the main sticking point will be whether or not we can cooperate to make some common sense policy aiming to fix the many problems we all agree need to be fixed.

As to the last point, I think boomers can be forgiven for being a little tired. We expected Silents to be tired in the previous unraveling, GIs to be tired during the last Awakening and Lost to be tired during the last High. They still need to lead, but imo, we should be expecting them to fill the role of Nestor rather than Odysseus (unfortunately, some have chosen to go straight up Agamemnon).

[pbrower2a]

(07-14-2022, 10:16 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-13-2022, 10:35 PM)JasonBlack Wrote:

Quote:The Boomers did not invent child abuse; far from it

I at least would never make that claim. 2T boomers were negligent, irresponsible and trying to rebel against a world they had not yet taken the time to understand, but they weren't particularly sadistic or especially cruel. imo, they corrected for many of these traits in the 3T where they doubled down on responsible parenting with varying degrees of success.

That's a great point, but one that needs a bit of clarification.  We grew-up in a world where the ugly parts were purposely hidden, so naiveté was virtually guaranteed.  We knew right from wrong (more than can often be said today), but we lacked the abilty to see the many shades of gray, where ideal was simply unavailable and good-enough seemed inadequate.  So yes, we screwed up a lot, but our hearts being in the right place is a sour excuse.  Cnicism won far too often, and is now the de facto standard.  We're tired; we can't fix it.  I only hope we raised you all well enough to do it for us.

Much of the Boomer rebellion was cultural.  GI tastes in music, literature, and movies left much to be desired.

Youth tend to see things in black and white with no gray area. They often think of hypocrisy as the greatest of sins even if it is a norm. People who have moral ideas often find themselves having to compromise them. Does anyone want to start a festival of easy-listening music (remember? FM radio stations typically with call-letters "EZ" in them, playing insipid arrangements of everything, especially sound to the sickeningly-sweet gushing sound of a string section without violas; you can't really hear the violas in a symphony, but you can hear their absence in a Muzak arrangement.    

Hypocrisy? The only people exempt from it are

1. Saints. When did you last meet Francis of Assisi?
2. Certifiable bad guys proud of their evil. 
3. People who, having no ideals, have nothing to compromise. 

#1 of course is extremely rare.
#2 go to the penal system very fast and never leave.
#3 may be the most dangerous of all.  See "Trump supporters".

[Eric the Green]

(07-20-2022, 10:51 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(07-14-2022, 10:16 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-13-2022, 10:35 PM)JasonBlack Wrote:

Quote:The Boomers did not invent child abuse; far from it

I at least would never make that claim. 2T boomers were negligent, irresponsible and trying to rebel against a world they had not yet taken the time to understand, but they weren't particularly sadistic or especially cruel. imo, they corrected for many of these traits in the 3T where they doubled down on responsible parenting with varying degrees of success.

That's a great point, but one that needs a bit of clarification.  We grew-up in a world where the ugly parts were purposely hidden, so naiveté was virtually guaranteed.  We knew right from wrong (more than can often be said today), but we lacked the abilty to see the many shades of gray, where ideal was simply unavailable and good-enough seemed inadequate.  So yes, we screwed up a lot, but our hearts being in the right place is a sour excuse.  Cnicism won far too often, and is now the de facto standard.  We're tired; we can't fix it.  I only hope we raised you all well enough to do it for us.

Much of the Boomer rebellion was cultural.  GI tastes in music, literature, and movies left much to be desired.

Youth tend to see things in black and white with no gray area. They often think of hypocrisy as the greatest of sins even if it is a norm. People who have moral ideas often find themselves having to compromise them. Does anyone want to start a festival of easy-listening music (remember? FM radio stations typically with call-letters "EZ" in them, playing insipid arrangements of everything, especially sound to the sickeningly-sweet gushing sound of a string section without violas; you can't really hear the violas in a symphony, but you can hear their absence in a Muzak arrangement.    

Hypocrisy? The only people exempt from it are

1. Saints. When did you last meet Francis of Assisi?
2. Certifiable bad guys proud of their evil. 
3. People who, having no ideals, have nothing to compromise. 

#1 of course is extremely rare.
#2 go to the penal system very fast and never leave.
#3 may be the most dangerous of all.  See "Trump supporters".

Indeed. I ran into this point while writing my essay "Leather Shoes" https://philosopherswheel.com/leathershoes.html

The great hero-journalist from The Guardian of the threats of neoliberalism to the living world, George Monbiot, sets us straight on this topic too.

https://youtu.be/gm78X0RZNho?t=1351 @ 22:32
"We're all hypocites. There's only 2 kinds of people in the world, hypocrites and cynics. A hypocrite is someone who's trying to do better and falls short, and a cynic is someone who's not trying to do better. And I know which one I'd rather be. Some people think there's a third category called morally pure, but I've never met anyone like that. They don't exist. So if you wear leather shoes they call you a hypocrite, and if you don't wear leather shows they call you a hippie, which is like hypocrite but shorter... "

[JasonBlack]

Thinking about this more, while they are fairly selfish, I'd argue boomers are also disproportionately sensitive and emotional. Like Xers, they tend to worry a lot about their children and call them to remind them of practical concerns that can either be welcomed by a generation of "mama's boys" or, for those who are more individualistic like myself, be seen as infantilizing.

My boomer parents generally did well by me, but at 31, it's been a long, uphill battle to get them to treat me like an adult. If I push too hard, they would view that as defensive, too little and they would be enabled to continue being infantilizing. I'm saying this less to complain, as much to illustrate that my experience here is typical, and it's not the kind of behavior I would expect from sociopathic people.

The more sociopathic boomers I met tended to be the "sports dad" type, who made a habit of pushing their kids into all manner of sports they weren't interested in and screaming at them any time they wanted something. My own father is pretty much the opposite of that (most of y'all would probably like him), but I butted heads with many such individuals in my time, and it was clear from their reactions that they were not used to people deviating from how they wanted them to behave.