While I'm not old enough to remember when Truman and his "vital-center liberals" (as Arthur Schlesinger Jr. called them) "dueled" with Eisenhower's "modern Republicans" for control of the country, I sure hope that I live long enough to see that arrangement - or something closely resembling it - return.

But this, of course, will require the Culture Wars to end - and so long as the fires of Roe v. Wade and what if anything to do about it continue to rage, that will clearly not happen.

I've been promoting other generational theory sites on Twitter, and figured I'd might as well start a thread here with links. Please add anything I might miss.

First up, I will just put in a link to Neil Howe's Lifecourse.com site. It's not updated much these days, but it has plenty of great background information, including the "official" dates of the generations and turnings. It also has a "Generations of American Leaders" searchable database of American political leaders.

https://www.lifecourse.com/

Neil works as Director of Demography at the financial firm Hedgeye, and has a podcast, which hasn't had any content in a while, since he's working on the new book.

https://podcasts.google.com/feed/aHR0cHM...eEkJEAharw

To access content that he produces for Hedgeye, a subscription is required, though they do sometimes release freebies. The best way to get access would be to follow them on Twitter or subscribe to them by email.

And then everyone born from 1992 to 2016 is a Zoomer, making this a Second Civil War Saeculum with no civic heroes? The cutoff for Generation X should be whether or not you have strong memories of the 90's, 9/11, the 2008 recession and the War on Terror.  If you don't have memories of these, you're a later generation. Also,  there should be no nostalgia for Reagan.  Voting in the eighties and having nostalgia for Reagan should put you in the Boomer category. Generation X should also be defined by more than just "Listened to Grunge." Does the fact that someone born in the 80's doesn't remember He-Man really make that much of a difference? I'm starting to think Millennials don't exist. We're certainly not what they write of us.  The idea that we're an "entitled" generation is pretty laughable at this point. Most of us are just as disaffected as Generation X.

I've finally realized there's no sense in comparing Millennials to the Greatest Generation.  This is a Second Civil War Saeculum and no heroes are going to be found. Even if it turns out to be a cold civil war, the fact that the topic is on everyone's minds is almost enough. Yesterday, I learned that my life, beginning in 1987, is very comparable to a man born in 1822.  It's not a perfect comparison, but it works better than the Greatest Generation comparison.

9/11 was our Alamo, an event of the unnecessary and stupid Mexican-American War. The War on Terror was our Indian Wars and Mexican-American Wars. Bill Clinton deregulating Wall Street was one of the major events that led to the 2008 recession and Andrew Jackson's Bank Wars caused major recessions from 1836 to 1857. This would make 2008 our 1843.The worldwide cholera pandemic, peaking in 1854, is our Covid-19 Pandemic, beginning in 2019, but peaking in 2020 and 2021. This leaves 2026 as our 1861.  I don't have to tell you that racial tensions are still with us. A couple things are different, which is fine because our times are never going to line up perfectly.  As a Navy combat veteran during the war on terror, I don't think my experience would be quite as difficult as a Navy veteran during the Mexican-American War (Yes the Navy was used in the war) but the experiences would definitely be comparable. If you look up the Pacific Squadron of the Antebellum U.S. Navy, some of their deployment experience matched closely to some of mine.

Another thing is the presidents don't line up at all, but that's okay because it doesn't have to match perfectly. A slight comparison that could be made is that after James Monroe (The Era of Good Feelings) we had a string of weak presidents until the civil war and since Eisenhower and to a lesser extent Kennedy (The American High,) we've had a string of weak (or downright evil) presidents until the present. Yes Millard Fillmore was president during the 1854 peak of cholera and he looks just like Donald Trump (and Alec Baldwin) but Fillmore wasn't a hugely damaging president who was divisive and impeached twice. In Franklin Pierce and James Buchanan, we had presidents who did nothing in the face of a looming civil war, with Donald Trump, we have a president who's actively marching us towards civil war. The only question now is who will be president in 2026, when we face our next civil war. 

A quote from Wikipedia: "Strauss and Howe define the Gilded Generation (nomad archetype) as those born from 1822 to 1842. They came of age amid rising national tempers, torrential immigration, rampant commercialism, conspicuous consumerism, declining college enrollment and economic disputes. This led to a distrust of zealotry and institutional involvement, shifting focus to a life of materialism." That definition, of my generation being "directionless" sounds more accurate than the current write-ups on Millennials. The fact that we're the "entitled" generation is pretty laughable to me at this point considering what we've been through.

Millennials are now officially entering the middle age category I guess.

Lost:
(Humphrey Bogart, Mae West, Rudolph Valentino, The Marx Brothers, Irving Berlin, Douglas Fairbanks, Lillian Gish, Duke Ellington, Buster Keaton, James Cagney, Mary Pickford, Louis Armstrong)

G.I.:
(John Wayne, Katharine Hepburn, Judy Garland, Jimmy Stewart, Bette Davis, Lucille Ball, Frank Sinatra, Kirk Douglas, Burt Lancaster, Bob Hope, Walt Disney, Billy Wilder)

Silent:
(Elvis Presley, Woody Allen, James Dean, Marilyn Monroe, Clint Eastwood, Jack Nicholson, Elizabeth Taylor, Barbra Streisand, Mike Nicholas, Johnny Carson, Francis Ford Coppola, Ray Charles)

Boom: 
(Tom Hanks, Meryl Streep, Steven Spielberg, Gilda Radner, Madonna, John Travolta, Ron Howard, Bruce Springsteen, Jim Morrison, Susan Sarandon, Spike Lee, Michael Jackson)

Gen-X:
(George Clooney, Kanye West, Eminem, Tupac Shakur, Tina Fey, Leonardo DiCaprio, Beyonce, Jon Stewart, Kurt Cobain, Jennifer Lopez, Julia Roberts, Quentin Tarantino)

Millennial:
(Adam Driver, Lady Gaga, LaKeith Stanfield, Anne Hathaway, Taylor Swift, Selena Gomez, Kendrick Lamar, Jonah Hill, Timothee Chalamet, Cardi B, Billie Eilish, Emma Stone)

New Silent:
(McKenna Grace, Julia Butters, Brooklynn Prince, Noah Schnapp, Issac Ryan Brown, Ariana Greenblatt, Iain Armitage, Maxwell Jenkins, August Maturo, Mykal-Michelle Harris, Alan S. Kim, Chloe Coleman)

I made the original list of every generation's bad apples back in 2018, but since then, a lot has changed, and I realized that many of the people I originally added didn't really belong there because they weren't heinous enough and/or weren't that well known/relevant (example - many and arguably even most of the guys I added in my previous list were nothing more than controversial and usually irrelevant people). I'm not going to add every bad apple a generation has, for the reason that was mentioned in the latter part of the previous sentence. This is also going by American generations, although it may not be that accurate to apply them to other countries (like Russia or Germany).

Missionary Generation

• Henry Ford - influencer of Nazism, abuser
  
• Madison Grant - involved in race and intelligence controversy, eugenicist
  
• Joseph Stalin - mass murderer, genocide perpetrator, communist dictator
  

• Lothrop Stoddard - influencer of Nazism, eugenicist
  
• Benito Mussolini - fascist leader and dictator
  
• Adolf Hitler - mass murderer, genocide perpetrator and dictator
  
• Francisco Franco - dictator and mass murderer
  
• Mao Zedong - mass murderer and dictator
  
• Oskar Dirlewanger - genocide perpetrator, rapist, pedophile, war criminal, mass murderer 
  
• Ferenc Szálasi - mass murderer, genocide perpetrator, corrupt official, war criminal
  
• Heinrich Himmler - mass murderer/genocide perpetrator
  

• Reinhard Heydrich - high ranking SS official, mass murderer
  
• Ed Gein - serial killer
  
• Josef Mengele - Nazi doctor/torturer
  
• Ne Win - dictator and mass murderer
  
• Augusto Pinochet - dictator and torturer
  
• Nicolae Ceausescu - corrupt leader, dictator, genocide perpetrator
  
• Idi Amin - dictator
  
• Pol Pot - mass murderer and dictator
  
• Fidel Castro - dictator, corrupt leader, war criminal, mass murderer
  

• Gertrude Baniszewski - child abuser and murderer
  
• Marshall Applegate - cult leader and mass murderer
  
• Jim Jones - cult leader and mass murderer
  
• Charles Manson - serial killer and cult leader
  
• Saddam Hussein - mass murderer, genocide perpetrator, torturer
  
• Kim Jong-il - dictator, mass murderer, torturer, corrupt leader
  
• John Wayne Gacy - serial killer, rapist, sex offender
  
• Ted Kaczynski/The Unabomber - domestic terrorist
  

• Paul Knowles - serial killer
  
• Ted Bundy - serial killer
  
• Gary Ridgway - serial killer
  
• Pablo Escobar - drug lord
  
• Roger Stone - corrupt official
  
• Vladimir Putin - dictator and corrupt leader
  
• Jeffrey Epstein - sex trafficker and pedophile
  
• David Berkowitz - serial killer
  
• Xi Jinping - CCP leader, genocide perpetrator, corrupt leader
  
• Recep Erdogan - corrupt leader, war criminal, terrorist, dictator
  
• Alexander Lukashenko - dictator and corrupt leader
  
• Jair Bolsonaro - corrupt leader, mishandling the pandemic (this may arguably make him a mass murderer as well)
  
• Terry Nichols - Oklahoma City bomber
  
• Aileen Wuornos - female serial killer
  
• Osama bin Laden - infamous Al Qaeda terrorist/leader
  
• Anthony Sowell - serial killer and rapist
  
• Jeffrey Dahmer - serial killer
  
• Richard Ramirez - serial killer
  
• Ghislaine Maxwell - sex trafficker and pedophile
  
• Viktor Orban - corrupt leader
  

• Bashar al-Assad - dictator
  
• Eric Rudolph - Olympic Park bomber
  
• Timothy McVeigh - Oklahoma City bomber
  
• Abu Bakr al-Baghdadi - former ISIS leader
  
• Wade Michael Page - Wisconsin Sikh temple shooter
  
• Robert Bowers - Pittsburgh synagogue shooter
  
• Alex Jones - infamous conspiracy theorist and spreader of misinformation
  
• Marjorie Taylor Greene - My opinion only, but I think she is a corrupt official
  
• Abu Ibrahim al-Hashimi al-Qurashi - leader of ISIS
  
• Anders Breivik - Utoya shooter
  
• Eric Harris - Columbine shooter
  
• Dylan Klebold - Columbine shooter
  

• Kim Jong Un - corrupt leader, North Korea leader
  
• Jake Angeli/Qanon Shaman - January 6 insurrectionist (I know that many people participated in the January 6 insurrection, but I'm only listing the ones that are well-known/infamous enough)
  
• James Holmes - Aurora theater shooter
  
• Elliot Rodger - Isla Vista shooter
  
• Adam Lanza - Sandy Hook shooter
  
• Dylann Roof - Charleston church shooter
  
• James Alex Fields - Charlottesville car attack perpetrator (again, many people participated in the Charlottesville rally, and it's totally useless to add every single participant on here)
  
• Patrick Crusius - El Paso shooter
  
• Nikolas Cruz - Parkland shooter
  
• John Earnest - Poway synagogue shooter, arsonist
  

• Ethan Crumbley - school shooter
  

• "Bad apples" of the Lost and GI generations generally are dictators or at least involved in some kind of dictatorship.
  
• Silents have the most variety for bad apples.
  
• Serial killers are usually Silents or Baby Boomers (Ed Gein is an exception).
  
• Baby Boomers have a lot of corrupt leaders and officials.
  
• Gen X has a decent amount of terrorists and extremists.
  
• Millennial bad apples are generally mass shooters, people involved with far-right politics, or both.
  

This includes every start date that has ever been proposed on this website.

1976: 1/10
These guys started elementary school after Reagan's victory (arguably the start of 3T), but other than that, there isn't really a lot that can be written down here.

1977: 1/10
Probably among the first to have celebrities that exhibit "hero" characteristics (like Gerard Way and John Cena), but that can apply to another birthyear.

1978: 3/10
I was actually a bit surprised that this was ranked that high. They were among the first to not really remember a time of stagflation, the first to graduate high school after the release of Windows 95 (the "dawn" of the Internet becoming popular, meaning they were probably the first to have some exposure to it in their K-12 education), and probably were among the first to be negatively impacted by the Great Recession (this can apply to other birthyears, but I'm only going by an article that said the average homebuyer was 30 in 2008)

The article: https://www.nar.realtor/blogs/economists...-2001-2010

1979: 0/10
There is really nothing that makes 1979 a good starting date (or even a good ending date). This is easily the worst starting date on this list, and the first 0 I gave.

1980: 2/10
These guys are probably the first to not really have a likely chance of remembering Morning in America, but that is really it.

1981: 8/10
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thread-19635.html
Although I do like this start date and thought it was the best starting date in the past, I think there's a better one.

1982: 10/10
I think this starting date makes the most sense for Millennials. They were the first to be born after AIDS became a crisis, the first to be born after the "Baby on Board" stickers became popular, probably among the first to not feel that impacted by Reagan and Bush 41's presidencies, and the first to graduate in a year that starts with a 2 (which is why they got their name). This is also the start date proposed by Strauss and Howe.

1983: 7/10
This starting date isn't the best, but I can still see it work. They were the first to be born after the end of stagflation, among the first to have an unlikely chance of remembering Black Monday, and were the first to graduate high school after the actual start of the new millennium.

1984: 2/10
Other than being the first to graduate after 9/11, there is really not much else I can think of. Likely a controversial opinion, but I think this is a weaker start date than what most people think.

1985: 3/10
This is simply too late for a start date, but I think it has more merit than a 1984 one. They were the first to be born after Morning in America (the start of "absolute 3T"), among the first to have an unlikely chance of remembering the Berlin Wall falling, the first to start high school after the Columbine shooting, and the first to graduate high school after the Iraq invasion.

What are the generations and their dates of other countries? I am from Northern Ireland, and I am interested in what you believe the generations are for the UK or Ireland.

I have seen people talk about the UK Strauss and Howe Generational Theory on the old forum, there is a Contemptible (UK equivalent to Lost) Generation, Victory (UK equivalent to G.I.) Generation, Air-Raid (UK equivalent to Silent) Generation, a Boom Generation, Hooligan (UK equivalent to X) Generation, and then a Millennial generation.

On another hand, my mother calls herself a “Thatcher’s Children”.

Personally, I have my doubts.

Were G.I.s ever castigated as "snowflakes," or anything similar, at like age?

Plus their immediate juniors are acting a lot more like Idealists/Prophets than Adaptives/Artists lately - see David Hogg, Greta Thunberg, and the teenaged defenders of Critical Race Theory about whom I have already started a thread.