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  How the generations in "Gone With The Wind" make sense
Posted by: Hintergrund - 07-12-2019, 10:21 PM - Forum: Entertainment and Media - No Replies

GWTW is quoted in the chapter about generations - with Rhett and Scarlett being typical Nomads, while both their parents and their kids are more like Artists.

It sounds plausible if you read it, but makes less sense if you calculate the dates given in the story.

  • Scarlett was born 1844 or later - making her a Progressive (Artist).
  • Her mother was born around 1828 - Nomad, of all things.
  • Her father Gerald was born around 1800 - Transcendental, if the generations work the same way in Ireland. He immigrated to America in 1821, bis brothers even earlier - a rare thing for Irish Catholics at that time.
  • Rhett would be a Nomad - so far, so good.
  • Her other husbands were several years older, so they'd be Nomads as well.
  • Scarlett's kids were born after 1860 - so they'd be Missionaries. But except for the youngest, Bonnie, they rather fit the Artist archetype.

But now look at Margaret Mitchell's life:
  • She was born in 1900 - Lost (Nomad), if a cusper.
  • Her first husband died in WW1 - Lost.
  • Her third husband, who was much like Rhett, also was a Lost.
  • Her parents were Missionaries - her mother even was a feminist activist, a suffragette
  • She wrote the book from 1926 to 1935 - in this time, Silent children were born, so she'd have modeled the book's kids after those.
If you equal M. Mitchell = Scarlett, and do the same with other people in her life and the book, suddenly it makes more sense. She was a Nomad, so Scarlett also acted more like a Nomad than real Southern Belles born in 1844 would have done. Scarlett's kids act more like fearful Artists than spoiled "Prophets", because that was the kind of kids around when Mitchell wrote. And so on.

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  Is the new book coming or not?
Posted by: Hintergrund - 07-12-2019, 09:29 PM - Forum: Neil Howe & The First Turning - Replies (10)

It's in this forum's description, "News about Neil Howe and his upcoming book The First Turning", but what is the deal with it? It's not listed on amazon... is this still a thing?

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Posted by: Bill the Piper - 07-07-2019, 12:49 PM - Forum: History Forum - Replies (31)

When did the Democrats become the party of Scientism? Today's Democrat appeal to science quite a lot. LGBT rights and environmentalism are supposed to be scientific.

In the Past Democrats were a populist workers' party, so when did the shift happen?

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  Your favourite philosophical or spiritual quotes
Posted by: Bill the Piper - 06-30-2019, 01:32 PM - Forum: Religion, Spirituality and Astrology - Replies (6)

It is requisite to choose the most excellent life; for custom will make it pleasant. - Pythagorean saying
It is better to suffer, than to do wrong. - Pythagorean saying

The best and greatest winning is a true friend; and the greatest loss is the loss of time. - Pythagorean saying
The virtuous man is driven by responsibility, the non-virtuous man is driven by profit.  - Confucius
Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useless. - Seneca
Without contraries there is no progression. Attraction and repulsion, reason and energy, love and hate are necessary to human existence. - William Blake
There are no sons of God, but there are mature and thus rational and perfect sons of the Cosmos. There is no Christ, but there is a brilliant man and a greater teacher of mankind.  - Konstantin Tsiolkovsky
Nothing exists, save atoms and their combinations. There is no atom, which wouldn't periodically take part in life.  - Konstantin Tsiolkovsky
This is the goal of all living, that the Cosmos may be known, and admired, and that it may be crowned with further beauties. Nowhere and at no time, so far as we can tell, at least within our own galaxy, has the adventure reached further than in ourselves. And in us, what has been achieved is but a minute beginning. But it is a real beginning. - Olaf Stapledon
In you, humanity is precarious; and so, in dread and in shame, you kill the animal in you. And its slaughter poisons you  - Olaf Stapledon
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. - Carl Sagan
Progress should not bow to fear, but should proceed with eyes wide open. - Max More

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  Atlantic Monthly, 24 June 2019: The Boomers Ruined Everything
Posted by: pbrower2a - 06-25-2019, 10:27 PM - Forum: Baby Boomers - Replies (22)

Quote:The Baby Boomers ruined America. That sounds like a hyperbolic claim, but it’s one way to state what I found as I tried to solve a riddle. American society is going through a strange set of shifts: Even as cultural values are in rapid flux, political institutions seem frozen in time. The average U.S. state constitution is more than 100 years old. We are in the third-longest period without a constitutional amendment in American history: The longest such period ended in the Civil War. So what’s to blame for this institutional aging?

One possibility is simply that Americans got older. The average American was 32 years old in 2000, and 37 in 2018. The retiree share of the population is booming, while birth rates are plummeting. When a society gets older, its politics change. Older voters have different interests than younger voters: Cuts to retiree-focused benefits are scarier, while long-term problems such as excessive student debt, climate change, and low birth rates are more easily ignored.

But it’s not just aging. In a variety of different areas, the Baby Boom generation created, advanced, or preserved policies that made American institutions less dynamic. In a recent report for the American Enterprise Institute, I looked at issues including housing, work rules, higher education, law enforcement, and public budgeting, and found a consistent pattern: The political ascendancy of the Boomers brought with it tightening control and stricter regulation, making it harder to succeed in America. This lack of dynamism largely hasn’t hurt Boomers, but the mistakes of the past are fast becoming a crisis for younger Americans.

To avoid copyright violations (and to encourage people to read the article) I offer synopses.


1. Zoning has made it easier to build housing for high-income people, but more difficult to build housing for the working class. This creates a near surfeit of of "McMansions", but a great shortage of affordable housing. Of course, housing will always be pricey, but the real cost of housing has never been so high in American history. This goes beyond a larger population. It often uses environmentalist language as a cause to exclude people from a modestly-good life.

I recognize the need to protect property owners from blackmail (give us $5 million, home-owners, and we will not build a smelter in your neighborhood and reduce your middle-class housing to slums). Quarter-acre lots do not have a softer impact upon the environment than close-in apartment complexes.

2. Licensing makes getting jobs with genuine opportunity in professional advancement and starting businesses more difficult. Licensing in theory keeps the incompetent out of certain activities, but it also keeps people from getting chances to develop competence in a skilled occupation. Licensing has gone far beyond the traditional licenses for physicians, attorneys, and CPA's even to short-order cooks and taxi drivers.  Despite having the potential to advance, multitudes get stuck in low-skilled, dead-end jobs.

3. Escalation of educational credentialing. Just about everyone wants to see himself as part of a noble profession, and raising the educational requirements can create such an image. Such also keeps people out of jobs that they might reasonably 'grow into'. Work that people used to do with high-school diplomas (and I would be leery of hiring a high-school dropout because such indicates someone likely to be a rebel or to not be up to the job) now requires a college degree. 

The disparity between incomes by people with doctoral or professional degrees and people with less than a high-school education has gone from about 3:1 in 1970 to nearly 6:1 today. The disparity between the incomes of people with doctoral degrees and 'some college' has gone from about 3:2 in 1970 to about 3:1 today, which means that people with "some college" or an associate's degree (the latter hardly a lark) is as severe as the difference between the difference between a doctoral degree and being a high-school dropout in 1970.

People with doctoral degrees are not obviously more competent than they used to be. 

(from the article):

Quote: Meanwhile, even as higher education gets more expensive, the actual economic returns to a university degree are about flat. People who are more educated make more money than people with less education, but overall, most educational groups are just treading water. The social norm requiring degrees for virtually any middle-class job is one largely invented by Boomers and their parents, and enforced by those generations.

4. Incarceration. Beyond any doubt, convicted offenders, not all of them violent, have been getting harsher sentences as "put 'em away and lose the key" attitudes entrenched themselves. Incarcerated offenders become a supply of super-cheap labor for gain and profit of economic elites. 

5. Public and private debt. People assume huge amounts of student loan debt just so they can be glorified clerks, doing what 'mere' high-school grads might have done in earlier years. Debt ties to efforts to stave off recessions and to government payments to retirees. Eventual consequences will be higher taxes (an anathema of the Right that accepts its chose interpretation of the vague and indefensible Laffer curve as economic orthodoxy that all must accept), increasingly-inadequate (by current standards)  public services, privatization (to monopolistic gougers) or budgetary collapse that could make the 1929-1932 meltdown look enviable by contrast. 

6. an aging population. Death rates for young adults have been on the rise -- suicide, the opiate epidemic, vehicle crashes, and violence.

Boomers (or perhaps only elite Boomers -- my interpretation) , this article suggests, made choices that can only hurt the young who can solve America's problems if not overwhelmed.


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  Breaking the idea that saeculums are ~85 years
Posted by: Ghost - 06-24-2019, 02:17 PM - Forum: Generations - Replies (18)

Based on looking at generation definitions online and studying about historical events that took place, I'd surmise the idea that saeculums (set of four generations) aren’t really ~85 years but most likely around 72 years. Not to mention that the average lifespan worldwide is around 72 years or very close to it (a year or so give or take).

Finding generation equivalents based on birthyears is hard. The only ones that are probably known is GI/Silent compared to Millennials/Z and probably Boomer/X compared to Millennials/Z, making each “saeculum” 72 years instead of around ~85 years and “half-saeculum” 36 years instead of ~42.5. Based on various sources, I would say that it would be safe enough to conclude that these are the GI, Boomer, and Millennial equivalents of each other:

All/almost all sources lump them as GI/Boomers/Millennials:

1918 -> 1954 -> 1990 (Horses)

1919 -> 1955 -> 1991 (Goats)

1992 -> 1956 -> 1920 (Monkeys)

1993 -> 1957 -> 1921 (Roosters)

Some sources lump them as GI/Boomers/Millennials, and they usually/traditionally are:

1994 -> 1958 -> 1922 (Dogs)

1995 -> 1959 -> 1923 (Boars)

1996 -> 1960 -> 1924 (Mice)

Some sources lump them as GI/Boomers/Millennials, but they usually/traditionally are not:

1997 -> 1961 -> 1925 (Oxen)

1998 -> 1962 -> 1926 (Tigers)

1999 -> 1963 -> 1927 (Rabbits)

All/almost all sources don’t lump them as GI/Boomers/Millennials

2000 -> 1964 -> 1928 (Dragons)

2001 -> 1965 -> 1929 (Snakes)

2002 -> 1966 -> 1930 (Horses)

2003 -> 1967 -> 1931 (Goats)

If you look at it in a big picture, it does make a little bit of sense. It also seems to coincide with the Chinese Zodiac, as shown above.

I would also argue that the ages of each equivalent were similar to each other when certain events took place (using 1924, 1960, and 1996 - the Mice years - as an example):

1924 borns were 2/3 when the Bath School disaster (arguably the GI Gen's Columbine or Y2K) took place, 4/5 when Black Tuesday took place, 14/15 during the start of WWII, and 20/21 when WWII ended.

1960 borns were 2/3 when JFK was assassinated, 4/5 when the first US troops arrived in Vietnam as well as when Immigration Act of 1965 was passed, 14/15 when the Vietnam War ended, and 20/21 when Reagan was inaugurated along with the start of the AIDS crisis.

1996 borns were 3 when Y2K took place, 4/5 when 9/11 happened and the War on Terror commenced, 14/15 when Occupy Wall Street took place, and 20/21 when Trump was inaugurated along with the rise of the #MeToo movement.

A breakdown of each generation starting with the year 1802:

Civil War Saeculum (72 years)

1802-1819: Transcendental Generation

1820-1837: Gilded Generation

1838-1855: Bleeding Generation (grew up during Bleeding Kansas and the Civil War)

1856-1873: Progressive Gen (the main people involved in the rise of progressivism in the early 20th century – Woodrow Wilson, William Jennings Bryan, Jane Addams, and Al Smith for example – were all born sometime during this 18-year span)

Great Power Saeculum (72 years)

1874-1891: Idealists

1892-1909: Automobile Generation (grew up during the rise of the automobile)

1910-1927: GI Generation (anyone 18 and older during WWII but either are unlikely to or can't remember Franz Ferdinand's assassination)

1928-1945: Silent Generation (anyone under 18 during WWII)

Millennial Saeculum (72 years)

1946-1963: Baby Boomers (born after WWII but before JFK's assassination)

1964-1981: Gen X (anyone that wasn’t 18 yet during the MTV launch but already 18 by the time Y2K happened)

1982-1999: Millennials (anyone under 18 when Y2K took place)

2000-2017: Homelanders (anyone born after Y2K but already adults when the Apophis asteroid, probably their - along with the Neo-Prophets' - equivalent of Y2K, will come)

Post-Millennial Saeculum (72 years)

2018-2035: Neo-Prophets (any minor when the Apophis incident may happen)

2036-2053: Unnamed nomad gen

2054-2071: Unnamed hero gen

2072-2089: Unnamed artist gen

Please let me know what you think about this idea.

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  Is it Time to Decriminalize Sex Work
Posted by: beechnut79 - 06-12-2019, 08:13 PM - Forum: General Discussion - Replies (14)

In New York state and Washington DC there are active movements underway to decriminalize sex work, the more politically correct term for prostitution. A similar movement in San Francisco proved unsuccessful. As these issues are the realm of the individual states and localities and not the federal government, it is amazing that currently the act is illegal in 49 states and legal in only parts of the 50th(Nevada).

Perhaps ironically discussions of this increased after the FOSTA/SESTA acts were passed last year. Sadly many honest service providers ended up being lumped together with the sick human traffickers, and a result has been a bona fide witch hunt.  And because of its illegality providers tend to be scared to report abuse and mistreatment. This could be rectified through decriminalization efforts. Ironically some of the biggest opponents of decrim are service providers themselves because then they would have to start paying taxes on it.

If it were legal in more of the nation, would sex work become more affordable to the masses? Currently the average rate for a provider is between $300 and $500 per hour in most places. Your thoughts here.

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  California’s proposed car ban is the perfect mix of hubris and silliness
Posted by: Tech2 - 06-10-2019, 12:05 AM - Forum: General Political Discussion - Replies (12)

California’s proposed car ban is the perfect mix of hubris and silliness


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  Trump declares emergency to expedite arms sales to Saudi Arabia and UAE
Posted by: Tech2 - 06-09-2019, 08:25 PM - Forum: General Political Discussion - Replies (1)

Trump declares emergency to expedite arms sales to Saudi Arabia and UAE


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  U.S. Sen. Pat Toomey offers death-penalty bill for cop killers
Posted by: Tech2 - 06-09-2019, 08:13 PM - Forum: General Political Discussion - Replies (3)

U.S. Sen. Pat Toomey offers death-penalty bill for cop killers


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