When a lot of the owners are dying off and they can't be sold for the ridiculous prices? Any idea what will happen based on the last fourth turning? Housing trends seem like a hyper version of a 3T even though we're in the 4T.

Alabama Executes Brandon Samra

And here I thought Alabama was a "pro-life" state huh.

This piece by Thomas Edsall in today's NY Times fits in well with our discussions, but not with any posted thread I could find.  It also references an alternative 4 phase system -- different from TFT, but not incompatible.

The Fight Over How Trump Fits in With the Other 44 Presidents

It didn’t take long after President Trump took office for conflicting views about the strength and duration of his legacy to surface.
A “regime” theory of the presidency — developed in “The Politics Presidents Make” by Stephen Skowronek, a political scientist at Yale — provides the theoretical basis for the view that despite his victory in 2016, Trump represents the final collapse of Reagan-era conservatism. Skowronek described his overall project as a “study of presidents as agents of political change” that produced a framework of “four types of political leadership,” each of which I will explore in more detail below, with and without reference to the seeming anomaly of Trump.

Jack Balkin, a law professor at Yale, adapting Skowronek’s model, argues that Trump epitomizes the fourth type of political leadership Skowronek identifies because Trump is “in the same structural position as Herbert Hoover and Jimmy Carter,” caught in an uphill, presumptively doomed, struggle “to hold together the fraying coalition of an exhausted regime.”

… more at the link above.

The generations and Pluto: 

As a Gen Joneser, I was too young to serve in Vietnam or do all the sit-ins, but old enough to remember or  see the effect of  the assassinations of hero-type people like JFK, MLK, Bobbie, and Malcolm X. I call Gen Jones the Assassination Generation because that affected us more than anyone will admit. Gen Jones has Silent parents. Gen Jones was born with Pluto in sober, adult Virgo; we roll up our sleeves and quietly get things done with little notice or reward. Practical Pluto in Virgo Jonesers swing both conservative or liberal; depending on the Silents who raised them. Generous Silent parents created conservative Jonesers; selfish Silents created liberal Jonesers. We are hard  working, sturdy, survivors, serious, grown-up-too-fast, perfectionists, making order out of chaos, always feeling left out,  raised with high economic expectations but  realizing none of these because of de-regulation, pink-slipping, downsizing, greedy 80's policies.   
 
Boomers were born with Pluto in Leo; the teenager of the zodiac with all the insecurities, need to fit in, judgemental attitudes, selfish narcissism, attention-hogging, demanding, needy, vain characters and personalities of teenagers everywhere. Boomers have that "Me, me, ME" attitude.
 
Silents were born with Pluto in Cancer; they got married and had kids early yet did the worst job of nurturing their kids. Cancer is the crab that hoards everything for themselves and won't give up anything; they hold what's theirs like a crab does with their claws; even when you chop off the claw the claw will not open and give up what it has. These Pluto in Cancer Silents are a cardinal sign meaning they want to be the leaders but were stifled in that by the super-hero GI's and super-loud Boomers. So they control what they can and that means they control the assets they were so lucky to accumulate and hoard in their lives. They use those assets to have fun and control their Gen Jones and Gen X kids. 
 
Gen X are the Pluto in Libra folks; Libra being the ones that love balance and beauty and the good life and partnerships but they were raised by selfish Silents or Boomers and so they haven't the economic means to achieve that love of beauty. They grew up in the excessive greed of the 80's but upon reaching adulthood, could not have any of the largesse the Silents and Boomers got. Their Silent and Boomer parents divorced in record numbers but these Pluto in Libra (the sign of marriage) folks had to fend for themselves and grow up fast; they desired marriages but not the easily broken kind like their Silent and Boomer parents. So they were tentative in marriage and seek a balance (another Libra trait) in their work-lives that their parents never looked for because they had it so much easier. They, too, are cardinal folks but  have not had the ability to lead because Silents and Boomers will not relinquish their grip on power. 
 
Millennials are the Pluto in Scorpio folks. Scorpio being about sexuality, death, taxes, inheritances and other people's money; is it any wonder these folks have totally changed the way we all think of gender (transgender, non-binary, gender-fluid, gender-queer, different pronouns) and sex (asexual, pansexual, demisexual, )? They inherit the bad choices of the previous generations, they pay higher taxes to fund the greedier older generations, they now have deadly global warming to contend with and Boomers that will NOT give up their places or their riches for the Millennials who have to have a degree to get jobs but there's few full time jobs available so they end up living with their Joneser or Boomer parents (living off other people's money). That Scorpio death part shows up in their nihilism and nihilistic humor. 
 
Gen Z is the Pluto in Sagittarius generation. They have a much more global and philosophical outlook yet have a fatalistic view of life. Sagittarius are the philosophers of truth, it rules higher love, global ways of thinking, cultural investigations, foreign people, cultures, languages, higher education like college, and long-range communications. These kids grew up with hand-held computers that gave them a global reach before they could even read. They are far more exposed to foreign cultural icons, arts, thinking, philosophy. Theirs is a group that shuns nationalism and sees spirituality as more important than established religion. 
 
And that's just Pluto; Uranus has an 84 year cycle (like the Turning cycle of S & H), Jupiter and Saturn have cycles as does Neptune. All outer planets exert generational influences.

Hey Rags, this is with regards to the fur flying over a certain thread created by TheNomad who has as you know been fur flying about this forum and attacking everyone and including yourself as I can see. Would you be a champ and follow through with rule 2 which states 
2. "When the thread has drifted from the original topic, this can happen without anyone doing anything wrong conversation naturally drifts, however thread drift makes it difficult for readers to follow the discussion, when there a posts in thread on a different topic the thread can be split. "

If he wishes for his thread to continue the way he wishes, this is the best solution for him. As he has blocked me, he will not see that I am trying to help him out. But he is constantly as I can see breaking the other two rules which is making personal attacks, as well as the threat to spam which he did earlier. Maybe if he has his thread split, he will be a happier camper? The thread I am referring to of course is, "Rise Of Tribalism, Racism & Bigotry Most Associated With Which Turning & Why?"

Thanks, you're a champ.

House committee approves ban on drivers holding phones

https://www.al.com/news/2019/03/ban-on-a...ation.html

I don't understand this. As the 4T goes on more and more, I come more to the conclusion that the majority is terrible and that people are getting worse and worse. It makes me want to be a hermit, not unite or conform with people. When you see a 4T, you're looking at the evil of humanity and how terrible people can be. The only solution is to withdraw away from the world because people are getting worse.

(05-05-2019, 12:50 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(05-04-2019, 07:44 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I would counter that I prefer them focusing on us rather than themselves.  Should they actually become self-aware they may take steps to prevent their own demise. 

I prefer to limit their demise to themselves as much as possible. I can't help it, it must be the tinch of Christian in me.

When is bigotry and racism or hatred and tribalism happening most in American civilization according to past Turnings?

In what Turning (of the four laid out by S&H) are these things happening the most?

Why does it seem that America always descends into factions during certain Turnings?  The idea of building walls and "grouping up" seems to make sense to many while in that period.  Folks are more willing to be against others and have no desire to "meld" with neighbors. 

When this is happening, is it a peak idea we can look at as to WHEN certain Turnings are happening?

Such as:

Where inside the Turning we are.  Beginning?  Middle?  End?  Does it correlate directly to the Turning?  When these things are at the societal zenith, we might be right in the Middle.  Or, if we see it happening, the Beginning.  Or, if it is getting resolved, the End?

I had started a thread earlier about comparing this 4T (in the U.S) to others, but it has mysteriously disappeared. So here is another one.

In the original thread, I kicked off with a comparison to the French Revolution inspired by seeing the play Marie Antoinnette. I realize this is comparing a 4T in France to a 4T in the U.S., but consider that the French Revolution is a kind of gold standard for a Fourth Turning. France was overtly attempting to reformat their society, to pull, or push themselves, as it were, through the gates of history. Here is a list of similarities that pop out based on my knowledge:

• The political extreme locked out the centrists (left vs. right originated in this time)
  
• Political correctness was enforced (with the guillotine then, with the hashtag now)
  
• There was an attempt to erase the past culturally, including changing public space (today we take down Confederate statues, then they attempted to eradicate the Church)
  
• Fake news was rampant (rumors spread via word of mouth and pamphlets then instead of digital memes, but they had the same effect of inciting people with false information)
  

• The leader of the country was in the thrall of a foreign power that was an ideological enemy (then, it was James II under the thumb of King Louis XIV of France, now it is President Trump under the thumb of Vladimir Putin)
  
• The country had a sense of identity crisis, a need to assert its true identity and rid itself of the contaminating influence (then it was Protestant England attempting to assert itself, now it is Progressive America)
  

• The country was, as now, split into two irreconcilable sides.
  
• There was a collapse of civility between the two sides.
  

• The rise of populism and authoritarianism globally, including in the U.S.
  
• The collapse of global alliances and return to nationalism
  
• Low fertility rates
  
• Falling homeownership rates and return to multigenerational households
  
• Economic insecurity and inequality