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I find it hilarious how RW ideologues like Galen keep insisting on this BS slander that we left-wingers somehow don't know that the welfare state is paid for by tax money.
The rest of this thread is just the usual petulant, childish, Xer whining about Boomers and Millennials and doesn't deserve a substantive response.
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(05-22-2016, 07:17 AM)Danilynn Wrote: It's not so much that I want to see it burn, so much as it seems inevitable.
I can't speak to your experience with managing wild areas, you may not have much experience with that but I'm a member of a hunting association which maintains several thousand acres of reserved land for wild life. Every couple of years we conduct control burns to keep the woods and especially the swamp when it dries out from catching fire. I stress the swamp especially because the soil conditions are ripe for peat which is a precursor to coal (it would turn into coal if buried and put under pressure and some heat for a couple million years). The reason we do this is two fold, it allows for new growth which is what the deer and other animals like to eat (indeed in Florida some native species of trees won't even germinate unless a fire has passed through the area) and it clears away a lot of the undesirable undergrowth.
Like a Florida swamp that hasn't been properly managed (and the Seminoles themselves used to do the same back in the days) becomes over grown and chokes off the life force (for lack of a better phrase) of the swamp/woodland so to society needs to have periodic burn over periods to burn out the weeds. The great oaks will survive, and you'll lose the weaker pines but they will be replaced by newer younger stronger pines (seriously pines only live around 2 or 3 centuries anyway while oaks will live 2 or 3 millennia) and their seeds that survive the squirrels and what not won't germinate without fire to open the cones.
Our society is much like that now. We have "gitcha vine" and poison ivy choking off the trees, we have saw palmetto covering the ground choaking off the lower level plants. We need a burn--preferably a control burn because if we don't have one nature will provide her own, and it may burn down people's houses, be difficult to control even kill.
Quote: And the foreplay is tedious, do it already so we can rebuild it.
I can't speak for others, but as for me I'm young enough to be a Jr Officer still. I want to get it over and done with already. Every year of delay only makes the fire that's coming worse.
Quote:Most especially the welfare thing. Charities at a local level not affiliated with the government do it a lot better and with much more dignity and compassion and less waste than what the government does. I have been involved in numerous charities in my little city. My church bought out an acre of land in conjunction with other churches across all denominations of Christianity and planted with all the youth groups a garden. All the food goes to the food banks, or did. Until the government stepped in and said that we couldn't give that out because it was "unchecked food of unknown origin", same with the safely preserved and processed deer meat, and safely preserved produce from other people's surplus out of small family backyard gardens.
It isn't just charities. I ran into a spot of trouble selling boiled peanuts--had to relocate past city limits to be able to sell them. It isn't something I highly recommend, but when jobs are scarce it is something you can do to get up some money and it isn't taking a hand out. Apparently a peanut stand counts as a restaurant. Hell these days police shut down lemonade stands that children set up like it is some sort of plague or something.
It is unfortunate that the government had to stick its nose into your church's pantry. I'm no Christian (I gave up on that a long time ago, blame my preacher father if you must) but when given the choice between being preached at about the evils of the world and how everyone who doesn't follow an exact theological line is going to burn in eternity (because that is apparently what loving gods do) or actually doing something about the world's problems I have a feeling that Christ would prefer the latter.
I have a feeling that their language was cloaked in safety to the public and what not. The truth of the matter is that your church was providing food to people through a source they don't control. I've had to fight tooth and nail with my city over the fact that I have taken salvaged bath tubs and turned them into planters. This year I have peppers and tomatoes like always and even an experimental patch of some heir loom popcorn. It makes me wonder what they would do should a famine happen. Where would these people get their groceries should the oil stop flowing, I'm willing to bet these same neighbors would want to be my best friend just like they were during Hurricanes Charley, Francis, and Jeanne back in 2004. I was the only person in a five block area with a chainsaw and a machete (and no I won't loan them out). And that was just a micro taste of the hell that can break loose. My Uncles went down to Miami after Andrew and to New Orleans after Katrina, people don't realize it but they are literally a three days away from anarchy. Once the water goes putrid and the food runs out that thin vainer of civilization comes right off.
Quote:So now, each youth group, just delivers this to people who used to come to the pantry. We still have it, but none of what we can give is really nutritious stuff. It is mostly canned and boxed crap that we are allowed to give out. So yet again, gen x, the main bulk of the people who run this little pantry had to come up with a way to get food to people to "rich" to get food stamps, but too poor to actually buy their food, mainly seniors and millies just starting out, and a few families.
Nice work around there. In my case I just happen to know people who need a little extra help with food--particularly meat, one of the good things about having the maternal side of the family down here since the end of the 1950s. Daytona still has a black middle class (I'm meaning teachers, doctors, lawyers, professors and business owners) probably because we also have a Historically Black College. When I go hunting if they need any I make a note of it and once the animal has been dressed and the meat frozen I'll take it over to them.
We've been experimenting with a time bank style barter system to help people in our church. people who need say a plumber, but can't pay, donate however much time the plumber spends doing their work to someone else who needs it. We have seniors who donate it back in the form of driving youth groups around to donate food to our secret list of who needs the garden and deer meat and fresh caught fish. Or babysitting for the sweet young couple who's baby is sick and they need to work, and daycare is out of the question because of an ear ache.
Quote:My town is black, white and Mexican. And between the 12 churches of varying size, we have kept this place from falling into oblivion. Our town is actually re-vitalizing slowly in areas. But it has taken the stubborn, tattooed, weird hair-colored gen x that didn't play well with others to do it after infiltrating the church ladies and men's groups in numbers high enough to break it from social hour gossip society to one of action.
Sounds like what my BF has told me about his church. I asked him what they thought of him growing up and he said he said "It is somewhat ironic, the purple haired, liberty spiked safety pen through his nose kid ended up being a main leader in the men's group, I'm sure the older men hate me though cause I insist we actually do stuff."
Quote:People come to us way before they go to government agencies after say, a house fire, an unexpected death with funeral costs. The reason why is because we fix it. We scout around and organize whatever needs doing and see that it gets done, locally. Our food bank is never hurting because of the way we run it. We have the government appeased with how it appears, and the community taken care of by how it actually gets done. We even have a totally free clothes bank, and furniture stored all over in everyone's sheds, barns, and garages, that is free for people truly in need after disaster. And here's the kicker, the government nearly killed our food pantry, for the sin of growing fresh food and giving it away to people who are hungry.
As they should. In all seriousness I've often thought that the government, particularly the federal government does too much--meddles in things that they should. We need them to stop wars, end plagues stuff the states can't do. The states need to do most of everything else, and for things that are within my immediate realm...I can handle that. We've lost that as a country, I'm told that during the Depression seeking help from family, friends and one's church was the first course of action. I think to a large extent we've lost that as a country. We've lost that because if we are dependent on the government it makes it easier to atomize communities and makes it easier for them to control us. Where people fear their government, and it is much worse if they are dependent on the government, there is tyranny. Where the government fears the people there is liberty.
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(05-22-2016, 09:46 AM)Odin Wrote: I find it hilarious how RW ideologues like Galen keep insisting on this BS slander that we left-wingers somehow don't know that the welfare state is paid for by tax money.
Quote:The rest of this thread is just the usual petulant, childish, Xer whining about Boomers and Millennials and doesn't deserve a substantive response.
It isn't like you could give a substantive response anyway Odin. We expect one liners and you screaming Racist, Misogynist, Transphobe (whatever that means...I don't fear trannies) or whatever the word du jour is. Not exactly the substance from which intellectual debate is made.
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05-22-2016, 12:36 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2016, 12:37 PM by Odin.)
(05-22-2016, 10:15 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: It isn't like you could give a substantive response anyway Odin. We expect one liners and you screaming Racist, Misogynist, Transphobe (whatever that means...I don't fear trannies) or whatever the word du jour is. Not exactly the substance from which intellectual debate is made.
Because I learned a long time ago that trying to have an actual debate with Far-Right people is impossible because any valid source that goes against their beliefs is simply declared "propaganda" or rationalized away, just like you did by nitpicking about the sample size of the study I posed a few days ago. It is no point arguing with people when you can't even agree what the actual facts are.
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(05-22-2016, 12:36 PM)Odin Wrote: (05-22-2016, 10:15 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: It isn't like you could give a substantive response anyway Odin. We expect one liners and you screaming Racist, Misogynist, Transphobe (whatever that means...I don't fear trannies) or whatever the word du jour is. Not exactly the substance from which intellectual debate is made.
Because I learned a long time ago that trying to have an actual debate with Far-Right people is impossible because any valid source that goes against their beliefs is simply declared "propaganda" or rationalized away, just like you did by nitpicking about the sample size of the study I posed a few days ago. It is no point arguing with people when you can't even agree what the actual facts are.
Actually my experience indicates that the left relies on feels rather than facts. Bear in mind that I was once a creature of the left. Probably why you can't have a debate. Debate relies on facts.
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(05-21-2016, 10:33 PM)taramarie Wrote: Then lets have at it asap. The next question would be is what kind of society do we want to live in? What can be agreed on and what works best?
Why not some aspects of the "peace and love" world preached by many of the youthful Boomers during the 1960s. Not suggesting we be promiscuous and stone out on whatever, but at least more of the love one another ethic that they supposedly valued. I often wonder if the old "free love" crowd ended up becoming some of the most uptight people once they reached their midlife zone. If we can't put capitalism to bed, how about attempting some return to the more benign form we had in the postwar years, where it was possible for someone to work at a job they liked for 20+ years. It is obvious that companies don't value that kind of loyalty today. A sharing energy concept would be nice as well; one where we are not nearly as wasteful as we have been. This may be where outfits such as Uber and Airbnb come in. But the jury is still out on this one, I do believe.
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(05-21-2016, 11:41 PM)taramarie Wrote: (05-21-2016, 11:34 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: ![[Image: 13240703_1708039459447826_52219919770445...e=579ECA27]](https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/13240703_1708039459447826_5221991977044521228_n.jpg?oh=cae124b264fd68bf59dde99ec425af71&oe=579ECA27)
Well you are a 40s baby but we won't go into that as it is the message that is most important. How would that message work realistically in the real world? It is a nice sentiment but different ideologies clash and get in the way. Humans really are not all peace and love due to ideals clashing and greed as well as personality clashes, inability to listen and a whole lot more i am sure. How do we make that ideal work, Eric?
While message does suggest that you may not have ever really "grown up" according to many people's ideals, that isn't all such a bad thing. But the "creed of greed" definitely got in the way, especially from the mid-1980s onward. Was it a coincidence that this occurred about the same time that AIDS effectively killed off the sexual revolution.
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(05-22-2016, 12:40 AM)Galen Wrote: (05-21-2016, 10:09 PM)Danilynn Wrote: there comes a point where it can't be fixed and is easier and more realistic to burn it down, knock it down and start over so that it does make sense, because eventually the damage is so great, like now. So I second the burn it down and start over.
The current system is going down and in general the Xers know this and they know who did it. Saving it is not possible and so Generation X on the whole will not try.
Comparable to way the GI Establishment went down at the hands of the youthful Boomers in the 1960s?
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05-22-2016, 02:59 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-22-2016, 02:59 PM by Odin.)
(05-22-2016, 12:52 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: (05-22-2016, 12:36 PM)Odin Wrote: (05-22-2016, 10:15 AM)Kinser79 Wrote: It isn't like you could give a substantive response anyway Odin. We expect one liners and you screaming Racist, Misogynist, Transphobe (whatever that means...I don't fear trannies) or whatever the word du jour is. Not exactly the substance from which intellectual debate is made.
Because I learned a long time ago that trying to have an actual debate with Far-Right people is impossible because any valid source that goes against their beliefs is simply declared "propaganda" or rationalized away, just like you did by nitpicking about the sample size of the study I posed a few days ago. It is no point arguing with people when you can't even agree what the actual facts are.
Actually my experience indicates that the left relies on feels rather than facts.
"Experience" Nah, you are just thoughtlessly regurgitating the same old "HURR-DURR, libruls are all feelz over realz" ciclejerk. 
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You seem to forget how long I was on the Left Odin. Of the left those least likely to engage in feels over reals are the Marxist-Leninists (because it is an intrinsically materialistic ideology).
But have you ever thought that maybe that meme has truth to it? Maybe if SJWs and SJW males in particular weren't such hug box wanting, whiny man-babies that no woman who has any self-respect (which naturally excludes third wave feminists--that is an evil lesbianic cult anyway) would have any interest in you might not encounter that so-called circle jerk.
I'm willing to bet it has never crossed your mind. In the first part because it would require being self-aware, and as we all know being self-aware leads to wrongthink.
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(05-22-2016, 02:35 PM)beechnut79 Wrote: (05-22-2016, 12:40 AM)Galen Wrote: (05-21-2016, 10:09 PM)Danilynn Wrote: there comes a point where it can't be fixed and is easier and more realistic to burn it down, knock it down and start over so that it does make sense, because eventually the damage is so great, like now. So I second the burn it down and start over.
The current system is going down and in general the Xers know this and they know who did it. Saving it is not possible and so Generation X on the whole will not try.
Comparable to way the GI Establishment went down at the hands of the youthful Boomers in the 1960s?
Not so much. The Boomers really were trying to tear everything down as far as Generation X is concerned we are now reaching endgame of what they set in motion.
If you pay attention to Danilynn said in one of her later posts you would realize that something else is going on. I have said this before and you really need to pay attention. If Generation X ends up saving the world it will be a complete accident and consequence of trying to keep our own little part of the world from exploding. Indeed they are busy creating their own arrangements for surviving the stupid. Odin and Eric the Obtuse just don't like them very much.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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The answer to that is easy. They are the large generation of young people who get remembered by those who come after. For ever 50 privates in WW2 of the GI generation there was 1 LT. often a late Lost.
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(05-23-2016, 04:18 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-22-2016, 09:53 PM)Galen Wrote: Not so much. The Boomers really were trying to tear everything down as far as Generation X is concerned we are now reaching endgame of what they set in motion.
If you pay attention to Danilynn said in one of her later posts you would realize that something else is going on. I have said this before and you really need to pay attention. If Generation X ends up saving the world it will be a complete accident and consequence of trying to keep our own little part of the world from exploding. Indeed they are busy creating their own arrangements for surviving the stupid. Odin and Eric the Obtuse just don't like them very much.
If nomads are the ones who solve the big issues of their time why is it the civics tend to get the credit?
Probably because we don't make a lot of noise as we go about getting things done. One thing that you should know about Generation X is that we don't do virtue signaling. The GIs may have been doing the shooting but who do you think was figuring out how to go about it. The Lost were the junior and senior officers of the Second World War. They were also in middle and senior management of all of those businesses that produced what was needed.
I suspect you understand now why the GIs treated the Lost far better than anyone else did.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-23-2016, 01:38 PM)taramarie Wrote: Yep sure do. They were the ones who fixed the mess and us civics are merely the cannon foddar.
Never been happy about that part. Its not like you guys asked to deal with the mess, Generation X didn't either, the Boomers made.
Understand that it was the Lost, particularly those who fought the First World War, that were organizing anti-war protests in the period prior to Pear Harbor. It was well known at the time that FDR wanted to get into that war. If you did get stuck fighting it then you probably wanted to have Patton be your commanding officer since his casualty rates were pretty low. He didn't do political correctness and politics particularly well but chances good that you would survive.
In one respect the Lost were different than Generation X, they had a little more trust in government which they had lost in their old age.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-24-2016, 04:04 AM)taramarie Wrote: Sorry just got home. Double shift today. Why do you think the lost had more trust in govt compared to xers?
The early part of their lives was while was before the really huge regulatory binge of the Progressives which never really ended. Live a few decades of everything going down hill due to central planning and your attitude will change. The Lost were improvise, adapt and overcome and so they never stopped paying attention. There were exceptions but the ones that lasted until my time had plenty of time to learn by experience.
Here is an overview of the Great Depression:
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-24-2016, 04:09 AM)taramarie Wrote: I have been thinking about it and thinking how silly it is that they call us the civics (heroes.) That title is more deserving to the nomads. They are not only the ones who sacrifice everything in a potential war, but they do it without expectation of reward AND they solve the crisis on top of it. Us millies are no heroes. What a silly title given to us.
The GIs were competent in their own right and who know the Millies may yet surprise me. It like getting any award, your in the right place at the right time.
Nomads are damage control and that usually involves many small but important tasks that no one ever talks about. None of them are pretty but they have to be done. Prophets are all about big showy projects they can brag about and inflate their egos all the more.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-24-2016, 04:56 AM)taramarie Wrote: The last sentence regarding the prophets makes me also wonder about their archetype for my generation and how they are always going on about us as if we are the hope for the future and never go on the same way about xers. They are the parents of older millies and we are their trophy kids. I will watch your video tomorrow as it is a day off work for me and i am seriously worn out atm. Yeah i hope my generation gives me a pleasant surprise. The American millies anyway. NZ millies are living up to our role fortunately and it has been wonderful to play a part in it. Kiwi millies are competent and know team work gets a job done faster and especially without complaint. I can only hope American millies listen to xers and do the same.
You have to understand that Generation X did not turn out as planned, they never realized that the better part of an entire generation would not revere them. The Milles are simply the tax livestock they hope to bleed dry right along with Generation X. Right now the younger Millies are in the process of having life kick the shit out of them until they get a clue.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-25-2016, 12:09 AM)Galen Wrote: (05-24-2016, 04:56 AM)taramarie Wrote: The last sentence regarding the prophets makes me also wonder about their archetype for my generation and how they are always going on about us as if we are the hope for the future and never go on the same way about xers. They are the parents of older millies and we are their trophy kids. I will watch your video tomorrow as it is a day off work for me and i am seriously worn out atm. Yeah i hope my generation gives me a pleasant surprise. The American millies anyway. NZ millies are living up to our role fortunately and it has been wonderful to play a part in it. Kiwi millies are competent and know team work gets a job done faster and especially without complaint. I can only hope American millies listen to xers and do the same.
You have to understand that Generation X did not turn out as planned, they never realized that the better part of an entire generation would not revere them. The Milles are simply the tax livestock they hope to bleed dry right along with Generation X. Right now the younger Millies are in the process of having life kick the shit out of them until they get a clue.
Yeah that sucks for me. Looks like I'm going into thousands of dollars in debt and being leeched off of by the Boomers who suck the Social Security net dry and leaving none for us. And the ones who won't retire have all the good jobs that us Millies are trying to get degrees for.
"We have it in our power to begin the world over again."
—Thomas Paine, Common Sense (1776)
"History doesn't repeat itself, but it often rhymes."
—Mark Twain
'98 Millennial
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(05-25-2016, 12:24 AM)taramarie Wrote: (05-25-2016, 12:09 AM)Galen Wrote: You have to understand that Generation X did not turn out as planned, they never realized that the better part of an entire generation would not revere them. The Milles are simply the tax livestock they hope to bleed dry right along with Generation X. Right now the younger Millies are in the process of having life kick the shit out of them until they get a clue.
Oh god that is one way of looking at what xers and millies are to boomers. Sure that is what will happen but do they actually think that is all we are to them. That would be more like one persons perception of a despised generation. Yes, they will bleed us dry. But i doubt that is all we are to them. We are family members. We are coworkers. We are friends and we are a mystery to them also as well as to some we are hope. Yes we are getting kicked around, but do not think we will respond to it the same way xers have.
Everyone I know eventually gets tired of being kicked and the first chance they get they rip out the throat of the person doing the kicking. In the US you are seeing a bit of that with Trump and Sanders. This is a warning to the political class but I think they will ignore it as they always have.
Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard. -- H.L. Mencken
If one rejects laissez faire on account of man's fallibility and moral weakness, one must for the same reason also reject every kind of government action. -- Ludwig von Mises
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(05-25-2016, 03:31 PM)taramarie Wrote: Hmm what happened to all the posts on here? There were more recent posts added before i went to bed. It was getting to be an interesting discussion. What a shame. Did it get nasty after i went to bed and so was deleted by the moderator or something??
I split them off since they were getting off topic. I forgot that the forum doesn't provide a link when threads are split. Here's where they are:
http://generational-theory.com/forum/thread-144.html
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