Generational Dynamics World View

[pbrower2a]

(07-02-2018, 08:19 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: You're just making excuses for left-wing violence.  And referring to
Festinger's experiment, calling Trump a sociopath is the equivalent of
predicting the Guardians are coming in flying saucers.

The circumstances that excuse left-wing violence do not yet exist. Preemptive violence does not have justification. Violence has largely been by the Right, even if it is unorganized. Left-wing violence provokes right-wing violence; in view of the undeniably right-wing control of the American government, official violence might often be construed as right-wing. Note that I showed that even the Communist Party of the United States of America has urged people to not do provocative acts of violence. Do I trust Commies? No -- but in this case they have given us an excuse to disparage violent provocation of the police, the military (those are not at fault), government agencies doing bad things to people on behalf of Trump policies, Trump supporters, or even such fascist pigs as Nazis and Ku Kluxists.

Guardians are obviously not coming in flying saucers, and should they ever come to rescue people it will be after the horror (let us say the Inquisition or the Atlantic slave trade) is in the distant past.  But when it comes to moral depravity, it is unwise to use so derisive a word as sociopath, psychopath, fascist, or even evil to describe someone different in moral values or political agenda. It's best to stop well short of that. Someone who stiffs waiters, tells ethnic jokes, ridicules disabled people, does sexual harassment, or burns an American flag as a protest of a government policy is better called an a$$#ole... and not a sociopath or psychopath.


Words have meaning, and the most dismissive words merit use only with the most rigid justification. It is not usually good form for a psychiatrist to say that someone is a sociopath or psychopath without a professional diagnosis, bit that word has been tossed around for the likes of Ted Bundy and Saddam Hussein.
[url=https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-politics/donald-trump-psychopath-psychosis-mental-health-danger-us-president-goldwater-rule-psychiatrist-a8084726.html][/url]

[David Horn]

(07-02-2018, 08:19 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: You're just making excuses for left-wing violence.  And referring to Festinger's experiment, calling Trump a sociopath is the equivalent of predicting the Guardians are coming in flying saucers.

The amount of left-wing violence in the recent past is pretty minimal.  Most of the violence we're most concerned about hasn't been political at all, unless the use of guns in mass murders is, in and of itself, political.  So you're projecting your belief system onto comments you deem violent because they look violent to you and seem directed in your general direction.  Nonsense.  If rhetoric is enough to trigger that accusation, then the right is the dominant political source.  Social misfits and cranks are the dominant source overall.  The typical source is criminal activity, and even crime is in decline.

Trump, on the other hand, is a problem.  He either believes the nonsense he spews or he's being cynical for personal gain.  Nothing good can come from either of the two.

[John J. Xenakis]

(07-02-2018, 08:19 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: > You're just making excuses for left-wing violence. And referring
> to Festinger's experiment, calling Trump a sociopath is the
> equivalent of predicting the Guardians are coming in flying
> saucers.

(07-02-2018, 12:26 PM)David Horn Wrote: > The amount of left-wing violence in the recent past is pretty
> minimal. Most of the violence we're most concerned about hasn't
> been political at all, unless the use of guns in mass murders is,
> in and of itself, political. So you're projecting your belief
> system onto comments you deem violent because they look violent to
> you and seem directed in your general direction. Nonsense. If
> rhetoric is enough to trigger that accusation, then the right is
> the dominant political source. Social misfits and cranks are the
> dominant source overall. The typical source is criminal activity,
> and even crime is in decline.

> Trump, on the other hand, is a problem. He either believes the
> nonsense he spews or he's being cynical for personal gain.
> Nothing good can come from either of the two.

The left is the ideology of violence. Last century, Nazis killed tens
of millions of people, but the left -- people in your camp, people you
admire -- killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of
Socialism. You people on the left are much worse than Nazis, because
you welcome violence and revolution in the name of your ideology, and
you excuse violence because violent revolution is a good cause. So
Stalin slaugtered and starved tens of millions of people, but it was
all for a good cause. Mao executed and killed tens of millions of
people, but to you leftists, Mao is a god. Today the same thing is
happening in Venezuela, but people of your ilk support the principles
Chavez and Maduro because you have no morals and no ethics. And in my
article today I documented several real examples of violence and
incitement to violence by the left. You people on the left can't tell
the difference between union thugs beating the crap out of someone
versus writing a tweet. I know what violence is, because I write
about it every day in my articles. So don't lecture me on what I
"deem violent," because I know what violence is and you don't. Tweets
that call CNN fake news are not violence. What your leftist pals are
doing in Venezuela is violence, and what your leftist pals are inciting
in the US is also violence. Figure out the difference.

[Warren Dew]

(07-02-2018, 01:57 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: The left is the ideology of violence.  Last century, Nazis killed tens
of millions of people, but the left -- people in your camp, people you
admire -- killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of
Socialism.  You people on the left are much worse than Nazis, because
you welcome violence and revolution in the name of your ideology, and
you excuse violence because violent revolution is a good cause.  So
Stalin slaugtered and starved tens of millions of people, but it was
all for a good cause.  Mao executed and killed tens of millions of
people, but to you leftists, Mao is a god.  Today the same thing is
happening in Venezuela, but people of your ilk support the principles
Chavez and Maduro because you have no morals and no ethics.  And in my
article today I documented several real examples of violence and
incitement to violence by the left.  You people on the left can't tell
the difference between union thugs beating the crap out of someone
versus writing a tweet.  I know what violence is, because I write
about it every day in my articles.  So don't lecture me on what I
"deem violent," because I know what violence is and you don't.  Tweets
that call CNN fake news are not violence.  What your leftist pals are
doing in Venezuela is violence, and what your leftist pals are inciting
in the US is also violence.  Figure out the difference.

This forum really needs an upvote capability.  Thanks, John.

[John J. Xenakis]

(07-02-2018, 02:05 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: > This forum really needs an upvote capability. Thanks,
> John.

Thanks, Warren, but I would hate that, because for every upvote I'd
get a hundred downvotes.

[pbrower2a]

(07-02-2018, 01:57 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 12:26 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   The amount of left-wing violence in the recent past is pretty
>   minimal.  Most of the violence we're most concerned about hasn't
>   been political at all, unless the use of guns in mass murders is,
>   in and of itself, political.  So you're projecting your belief
>   system onto comments you deem violent because they look violent to
>   you and seem directed in your general direction.  Nonsense.  If
>   rhetoric is enough to trigger that accusation, then the right is
>   the dominant political source. Social misfits and cranks are the
>   dominant source overall.  The typical source is criminal activity,
>   and even crime is in decline.

>   Trump, on the other hand, is a problem.  He either believes the
>   nonsense he spews or he's being cynical for personal gain.
>   Nothing good can come from either of the two.  

The left is the ideology of violence.  Last century, Nazis killed tens
of millions of people, but the left -- people in your camp, people you
admire -- killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of
Socialism.  You people on the left are much worse than Nazis, because
you welcome violence and revolution in the name of your ideology, and
you excuse violence because violent revolution is a good cause.  So
Stalin slaugtered and starved tens of millions of people, but it was
all for a good cause.  Mao executed and killed tens of millions of
people, but to you leftists, Mao is a god.  Today the same thing is
happening in Venezuela, but people of your ilk support the principles
Chavez and Maduro because you have no morals and no ethics.  And in my
article today I documented several real examples of violence and
incitement to violence by the left.  You people on the left can't tell
the difference between union thugs beating the crap out of someone
versus writing a tweet.  I know what violence is, because I write
about it every day in my articles.  So don't lecture me on what I
"deem violent," because I know what violence is and you don't.  Tweets
that call CNN fake news are not violence.  What your leftist pals are
doing in Venezuela is violence, and what your leftist pals are inciting
in the US is also violence.  Figure out the difference.

Take out the Marxist-Leninists, who really are as violent, vindictive, bloodthirsty, and militaristic as the fascists, and political violence practically disappears from the Left. Few Americans have any use for Lenin, Stalin, Trotsky, Mao, or even Mugabe or Chavez.

Calling for mass murder, terrorist acts, dissolution of families, or beatings is itself violence, as established in the Nuremberg Tribunal against Julius Streicher, whose offenses were largely vilifying Jews so that people would show them no mercy upon encountering them -- even when the Jews were helpless, as in arriving at a platform at a Nazi concentration camp. Because of the callous treatment of helpless Jews for which Streicher prepared people to send Jews either quick death under Zyklon-B or slower death due to work under starvation rations, Streicher was found guilty of crimes against humanity and sentenced to death by hanging. Likewise, look at the execution of Rwandan advocate of genocide Froduald Karamira (who made such appeals on the radio as "We must cut down the tall trees!"), who fled Rwanda after the collapse of a genocidal regime, found his way to Mumbai -- whence the Indian government (no friend of terrorism, mind you) extradited him to Rwanda, where he was convicted of genocide and executed by firing squad. Neither Streicher nor Karamira was ever shown to have pulled a trigger or organized a deportation.

If you want to claim that someone like Enver Pasha (Armenian genocide in Turkey), Idi A-murderin' or Satan Hussein was left wing -- that is your prerogative. I can't place them so much on a political spectrum as I can place them on a moral continuum, their places corresponding to a very bad place in Dante's Inferno. Mobsters and leaders of international drug cartels may style themselves left-wing -- but their criminality overpowers any political style that they might affect.

Donald Trump has been saying things that, if they are ever to portend any genocidal acts, would subject him to criminal penalties under laws against genocide already in the Criminal Code of the United States. Like Milosevich, he makes sure to keep some personal distance from the cruelties of his regime (and, yes, this is a regime). His behavior is more like a Mob lord, making sure that he is not involved personally in a rub-out. Maybe Al Capone was not at the site of the St. Valentine's Day massacre, but nobody can exculpate him.

[David Horn]

(07-02-2018, 01:57 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 12:26 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 08:19 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: You're just making excuses for left-wing violence. And referring to Festinger's experiment, calling Trump a sociopath is the equivalent of predicting the Guardians are coming in flying saucers.  

The amount of left-wing violence in the recent past is pretty minimal.  Most of the violence we're most concerned about hasn't been political at all, unless the use of guns in mass murders is, in and of itself, political.  So you're projecting your belief system onto comments you deem violent because they look violent to you and seem directed in your general direction.  Nonsense.  If rhetoric is enough to trigger that accusation, then the right is the dominant political source. Social misfits and cranks are the dominant source overall.  The typical source is criminal activity, and even crime is in decline.

Trump, on the other hand, is a problem.  He either believes the nonsense he spews or he's being cynical for personal gain. Nothing good can come from either of the two.  

The left is the ideology of violence.  Last century, Nazis killed tens of millions of people, but the left -- people in your camp, people you admire -- killed hundreds of millions of people in the name of Socialism.  You people on the left are much worse than Nazis, because you welcome violence and revolution in the name of your ideology, and you excuse violence because violent revolution is a good cause.  So Stalin slaugtered and starved tens of millions of people, but it was all for a good cause.  Mao executed and killed tens of millions of people, but to you leftists, Mao is a god.  Today the same thing is happening in Venezuela, but people of your ilk support the principles Chavez and Maduro because you have no morals and no ethics.  And in my
article today I documented several real examples of violence and incitement to violence by the left.  You people on the left can't tell the difference between union thugs beating the crap out of someone versus writing a tweet.  I know what violence is, because I write about it every day in my articles.  So don't lecture me on what I "deem violent," because I know what violence is and you don't.  Tweets that call CNN fake news are not violence.  What your leftist pals are doing in Venezuela is violence, and what your leftist pals are inciting in the US is also violence.  Figure out the difference.

Really?  Stalin and Mao are hardly exemplars of the left.  Note: the one person who has posted here in the past who actually admired Stalin (Kinser'79) is now a H-U-G-E Trump fan, as he'll be more than happy to tell you.  Autocrats, and people who admire them, exist along the entire left-right axis.  They worship power, not socialism … or capitalism either.  Likewise, libertarians fall along the entire spectrum too.  Leftwing libertarians are anarchists, and not to my taste either.  So spare us all the examples of "people we admire", when you know perfectly well it's not true.

I can point to nations that have political systems more or less to my liking: the social democracies of Western Europe that Trump is working overtime to destroy.  Why do you think that's the case?  And while you're at it, explain the Trump fascination with Putin in any terms other than one autocrat loving another.

[David Horn]

(07-02-2018, 02:05 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: This forum really needs an upvote capability.  Thanks, John.

Is the upvote for demagoguery? I don't assign beliefs to you that you don't espouse yourself, but John had no trouble using the BIG COMMIE paint brush on pbrower and me? I wonder why?

[pbrower2a]

(07-02-2018, 03:39 PM)David Horn Wrote: Really?  Stalin and Mao are hardly exemplars of the left.  Note: the one person who has posted here in the past who actually admired Stalin (Kinser'79) is now a H-U-G-E Trump fan, as he'll be more than happy to tell you.  Autocrats, and people who admire them, exist along the entire left-right axis.  They worship power, not socialism … or capitalism either.  Likewise, libertarians fall along the entire spectrum too.  Leftwing libertarians are anarchists, and not to my taste either.  So spare us all the examples of "people we admire", when you know perfectly well it's not true.

I can point to nations that have political systems more or less to my liking: the social democracies of Western Europe that Trump is working overtime to destroy.  Why do you think that's the case?  And while you're at it, explain the Trump fascination with Putin in any terms other than one autocrat loving another.

Yes. Stalin and Mao are discredited. I'm surprised that you-know-who didn't mention Pol Pot in the same breath.

If I have to choose between a right-winger with some moral compass (let us say Churchill or Schuschnigg -- my favorite dictator by default because the only people that he killed were the Nazis who murdered his predecessor) and  Fidel Castro -- I will take Churchill or Schschnigg. Churchill ended up with about as absolute power as anyone did without getting the right to kill rivals, bleed his country for gain and indulgence, or rig an election... if it is a choice between survival of old decencies and horrors revolutionary in scale, I'll take the old decencies, thank you.

I see Donald Trump having made some usual left-wing appeals -- an expanded government, abandonment of free trade, disregard for protocol and precedent, and the practical dissolution of NATO and the European Union. Those are among the wrong left-wing appeals to me. Anti-intellectualism (recognize that Vaclav Havel excoriated the anti-intellectualism of the Czechoslovak communist regime) can as easily be left-wing as right-wing. OK -- I an a conservative on drugs (I prefer rationality), law and order (without which civil society cannot exist), and educational content (Rah, rah! Liberal arts -- so that people have some basis for decent and humane choices when religion fails to keep people believing or becomes itself corrupt). Trump's anti-intellectualism goes far behind the capacity to criticize wayward college professors, journalists, or creative people; it is an endorsement of mass ignorance over the only reliable means by which people can advance technology and make life potentially meaningful.

History has shown plenty of examples of people going from the Far Left to the Far Right (Goebbels, Quisling, Laval, Mussolini, Doriot, Pavolini) or from the Far Right to the Far Left. That's the True Believer, the person who like the late Margot Honecker whose formative years were in the Bund Deutscher Maedel  and as wife of Commie dictator Erich Honecker proved even more fanatical. Commies may not advance former fascists through the formal political system, but they find them highly useful (after a little brainwashing and the inducement of getting a nice living available no other way) as members of the secret police. If you wonder why there was no Commie massacre of the former Hlinka Guard (Slovakia), Arrow Cross (Hungary), or Iron Guard (Romania) but liberals got executed or consigned to the closest things to human imitations of the Ninth Circle of Hell -- Commies had no use for anyone with any liberal principles. That includes 'squishy' Communists who insisted on some democracy within a Socialist order.

OK, I have discussed Marx' theory... and how capitalists have managed to either thwart or deny the 'Socialist revolution' that Marx thought inevitable. So capitalists like Henry Ford decide that the worker needs a stake in the system so that he will believe in consumerism instead of the appeal "Workers of the world, unite!" Orthodox Marxists might see that as objectionable as fascism which seeks a return to feudal inequality and tyranny... but in view of the failure of 'Socialist' states to bring human happiness, I would say that consumerism with a welfare system is far better than any alternatives. OK. Marx' historical determinism is an oversimplification of history, and markets serve as checks to economic waste.

We seem to be entering a time in which any increases in further production of consumer goods can result only in waste as those goods become incredibly slight in value. How much is a reader device worth? We can all find a use. I use it largely for reading off Project Gutenberg  or listening to YouTube videos in waiting rooms. A second one? I have it connected to my stereo as a sound source. A third or fourth? It makes about as much as gorging on a third or fourth hamburger. We will need population growth to justify more output and consumption -- but population growth is the ultimate Ponzi scheme.

Many of our liberal and conservative politicians have little idea of how to deal with the reality of human needs being easily met. Donald Trump has no problem with such because he does not contemplate such. His economics imply using more and payiong more for what we get, a raw idea. Economic reality has a way of refuting crackpot ideas.

[John J. Xenakis]

(07-02-2018, 03:39 PM)David Horn Wrote: > Really? Stalin and Mao are hardly exemplars of the left.

I've known leftists my whole life, and I know how you guys operate.
In the 50s and 60s, your leftist forebears adored Stalin and were
totally in love with Mao. Think of the Senate McCarthy hearings. And
in the 60s, they were all walking around carrying a book of Mao's
Thoughts in the back pockets.

Then when people like me are proved right, and people like you are
proved wrong, that's when you say -- "Stalin and Mao are hardly
exemplars of the left." Well yes they are, or they were, until
you changed your mind for convenience.

The same is true of Chavez. All the leftist idiots were in love with
Chavez when he was destroying Venezuela, and people like me were
saying that he was a disaster. Now it turns out that I was right and
people like you were disastrously wrong, and all these loony left
idiot celebrities and politicians no longer want to talk about
Venezuela. I've seen this many times in my life, so I consider your
claim that "they are hardly examplars of the left" to be completely
full of crap.

(07-02-2018, 03:39 PM)David Horn Wrote: > I can point to nations that have political systems more or less to
> my liking: the social democracies of Western Europe that Trump is
> working overtime to destroy.

Lol!! What are we talking about here? France? Spain? Italy? Germany?
What social democracies do you love that the mean old demagogue Trump
is trying to destroy? Lol!

[John J. Xenakis]

*** 3-Jul-18 World View -- Mexico elects far left president amid skyrocketing murders, crime and corruption

This morning's key headlines from GenerationalDynamics.com

• Mexico elects far left president amid skyrocketing murders, crime and corruption
  
• Generational explanation for the violence in Mexico
  
• More on the generational explanation of vitriolic divisiveness in America
  

****
**** Mexico elects far left president amid skyrocketing murders, crime and corruption
****


Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO) In Mexico City on Sunday night (AFP)

Far left politician Andrés Manuel López Obrador (AMLO), 64 years old,
won a landslide victory in Mexico's presidential election on Sunday,
with about 53% of the vote -- more than double the total of his
nearest rival.

AMLO's victory is being seen as the latest of large populist
victories, comparable to the Brexit referendum, Donald Trump's
victory, and the right-wing victory in Italy. As the world goes
deeper into a generational Crisis era, and the survivors of World War
II continue to disappear, the old orders and institutions are
disappearing with them, and younger generations are creating a new
world order that ignores the lessons of World War II.

AMLO told his supporters:

<QUOTE>"I'm very aware of my historical responsibility. I
don't want to go into history as a bad president. Now we are going
to transform Mexico."<END QUOTE>

Well that claim would have to be placed in the category of "major
fantasy." Mexico is infested with murders, crime and corruption,
and no transformation is possible in the near future.

More than 110 politicians have been murdered since September. Last
year, a record 25,000 people were murdered, and 13,000 have been
killed so far this year. The 112th political candidate to be killed
was Fernando Puron, a congressional candidate in the border city of
Piedras Negras, who was taking a selfie with a supporter when a gunman
shot him in the head from behind.

Corruption is endemic. Outgoing President Enrique Peña Nieto’s
government and party were mired in a seemingly bottomless series of
scandals. AMLO promises to end corruption quickly.

The wave of murders, kidnappings and gang-related violence began
during the administration of former president Felipe Calderón
(2006-2012), who launched the government’s war against drug cartels in
2006. Instead of defeating the drug cartels, however, organized
crime, predominantly drug trafficking, exploded into broader criminal
activities including theft, extortion, murder and state-level
corruption. Despite billions spent and massive cash injections from
the U.S., Mexico has become only more dangerous.

AMLO wants massive spending on multi-billion dollar national
infrastructure projects, but has not specified where the money will
come from in Mexico's already weak economy. When asked he says that
he can pay simply by reducing corruption and waste. That's what every
politician says, but there's no chance that he will succeed.

Questions are being asked about how well AMLO and Donald Trump will
get along, but they spoke on the phone on Monday, and both say they're
in agreement on many things. AMLO had campaigned on Mexico leaving
NAFTA, but Mexico really needs NAFTA, and so that campaign promise
will be renegotiated with Trump. NBC News and AFP and Washington Examiner

****
**** Generational explanation for the violence in Mexico
****

Mexico's last generational crisis war was the Mexican Revolution of
1910-21. Mexico and Turkey are the only two major countries that have
gone more than 90 years without a generational crisis war.

The time since the last generational crisis war has a profound effect
on the society of a country. After the London subway bombings of
2005, we were able to show from published data that most Mideast
suicide bombers overwhelming came from Morocco and Saudi Arabia.
Saudi Arabia's last crisis war was the Ibn Saud conquest, ending in
1925, and Morocco's was the Rif War, ending in 1927. There appears to
be a correlation between the time since the last crisis war and
likelihood of suicide bombings and other suicide terrorist acts.

This phenomenon is explained theoretically in yesterday's article
"2-Jul-18 World View -- Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America"
.

As described in the article, a generational crisis war, whether it's
World War II or the Mexican Revolution or other, causes a core body of
"lessons learned," a set of beliefs that are deeply held by all the
survivors of the war. After the war, survivors in different political
parties may differ on many policies, but there are deeply held core
beliefs that allow them to cooperate on major policies. For example,
in America in the 1980s, the Republicans and the Democrats cooperated
with each other to change the Social Security system to make it a
sounder system. After that, they cooperated again to specify new
rules to control the budget deficit. That kind of cooperation became
impossible in the 2000s.

Once the survivors of the crisis war die off, then the younger
generations take power, but have no common deeply held core beliefs.
Previously held core beliefs shatter into fragments. Each group in
the population selects from those fragments, and uses them to develop
its own set of core beliefs, and makes commitments to those beliefs.
When those core beliefs conflict with reality and cause cognitive
dissonance -- with a disconfirmation event as described yesterday in
Festinger's theory -- each group doubles down on its unrealistic
beliefs, and in many cases this means becoming violent.

This theory is still under development, but it does provide a solid
theoretical explanation of the increasing violence in Mexico, and why
it will continue to grow until the next crisis war, probably a
re-fighting of the Mexican Revolution. A generational crisis war
unifies a country into a common set of core beliefs. As the decades
pass after the crisis war, this body of core beliefs shatters into
fragments adopted by different groups, resulting in conflicts that can
include violence. The next crisis war unifies the country again.

****
**** More on the generational explanation of vitriolic divisiveness in America
****

In yesterday's article,
I
described a "regeneracy event" as one that regenerates civic unity in
the population for the first time since the end of the previous crisis
war. In the American Civil War, it was the Battle of Bull Run. In
World War II, it was Pearl Harbor and then the Bataan Death March.
When these events occur, people with different political beliefs unite
behind the leader to fight to preserve the country and its way of
life.

During the days of the Barack Obama administration, I would write that
if a regeneracy event occurred, then all the people would drop their
political leanings, and become united behind Obama. This was greeted
with horror by some commenters, where some people said that he and his
friends would never unite behind Obama.

Now the shoe is on the other foot, and I'm hearing from commenters who
say that they would never become united behind Trump.

Neither of these claims is realistic. If a nuclear missile landed on
California, anyone who refused to defend the country would be branded
as a traitor, and would be treated as such.

A regeneracy event is a disconfirmation event in the sense of Leon
Festinger's theory of cognitive dissonance, as described yesterday.
It forces everyone to reevaluate all their deeply held beliefs, and
either reject them or double down on them. A few people will double
down and become perceived as traitors, but even they will be convinced
as the weeks pass. In time, almost everyone will support the
president, whether it's Obama or Trump.

Related Articles:

• Generational explanation of today's vitriolic divisiveness in America (02-Jul-2018)
  
  
• Violence increases throughout Mexico as illegals pour across U.S. border (25-Aug-2005)
  
  
• Teen 'emo subculture' creating violent fault line in Mexico City (25-May-2008)
  
  
• Paramilitaries may be joining drug wars in Mexico (08-Oct-2011)
  

KEYS: Generational Dynamics, Mexico, Andrés Manuel López Obrador, AMLO,
Fernando Puron, Piedras Negras,
Enrique Peña Nieto, Felipe Calderón, Mexican Revolution

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[alicetaylor]

After reading this forum, I must say that we have to the unit to help refugees in Syria because they need us.

[Warren Dew]

(07-02-2018, 02:20 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 02:05 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: >   This forum really needs an upvote capability.  Thanks,
>   John.

Thanks, Warren, but I would hate that, because for every upvote I'd
get a hundred downvotes.

Hey, you can have an upvote capability with no downvote capability.  But yeah, good point.

[Warren Dew]

(07-02-2018, 03:44 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 02:05 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: This forum really needs an upvote capability.  Thanks, John.

Is the upvote for demagoguery?  I don't assign beliefs to you that you don't espouse yourself, but John had not trouble using the BIG COMMIE paint brush on pbrower and me?  I wonder why?

Actually, you assign beliefs that I don't myself espouse all the time, as I've previously pointed out.  You just deny you do it.

[Tim Randal Walker]

So Mexico is now in a Crisis period?

[John J. Xenakis]

(07-03-2018, 07:18 AM)alicetaylor Wrote: > After reading this forum, I must say that we have to the unit to
> help refugees in Syria
> because they need us.

Bashar al-Assad is the worst genocidal monster and war criminal so far
this century, but from the comments that I receive on Breitbart, you
would be amazed how many people consider him to be a god or a hero,
because he supposedly protects Christians, which is like saying that
Hitler was a god or a hero because he protected Christians. Al-Assad
couldn't care less about Christians, and would kill them all in a
moment if he didn't need their support in exterminating Sunni women
and children.

[John J. Xenakis]

(07-03-2018, 10:22 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: > So Mexico is now in a Crisis period?

Very, very, very deep into a Crisis era.

[David Horn]

Whatever you're using to post,  it sucks.  I haven't dealt with the hard per-line character limit in 20 years!

(07-02-2018, 07:46 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 03:39 PM)David Horn Wrote: >   Really?  Stalin and Mao are hardly exemplars of the left.

I've known leftists my whole life, and I know how you guys operate.  In the 50s and 60s, your leftist forebears adored Stalin and were totally in love with Mao.  Think of the Senate McCarthy hearings.  And in the 60s, they were all walking around carrying a book of Mao's Thoughts in the back pockets.

Well, you can certainly hold a grudge if you want to look back 50 years.  Just fyi: most of that was political theater.

John X Wrote:Then when people like me are proved right, and people like you are proved wrong, that's when you say -- "Stalin and Mao are hardly exemplars of the left."  Well yes they are, or they were, until you changed your mind for convenience.

The same is true of Chavez.  All the leftist idiots were in love with Chavez when he was destroying Venezuela, and people like me were
saying that he was a disaster.  Now it turns out that I was right and people like you were disastrously wrong, and all these loony left idiot celebrities and politicians no longer want to talk about Venezuela.  I've seen this many times in my life, so I consider your claim that "they are hardly examplars of the left" to be completely full of crap.

Since I've never been fond of Chavez either, and thought Stalin and Mao were as despicable as you do, what's your beef here?  You can't just assign political positions to others because it's convenient for you.

John X Wrote:

David Horn Wrote:I can point to nations that have political systems more or less to my liking: the social democracies of Western Europe that Trump is working overtime to destroy.

Lol!! What are we talking about here?  France? Spain? Italy?  Germany?  What social democracies do you love that the mean old demagogue Trump is trying to destroy?  Lol!

He's going after Merkel as hard as he can, and he's insulted just about every ally we have in Europe and the Far East.  Of course, he loves the Saudis, Erdogan and Duterte --  to say nothing of Putin.  He's even friendly with Kim Jong-un, for God's sake!  


He proves the axiom that corporate CEOs are petty-demagogues in their corporate roles, and totally unsuitable as government executives.  When they asked Lee Iacocca about running for President, he turned it down for that reason.

[David Horn]

(07-03-2018, 09:42 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 03:44 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(07-02-2018, 02:05 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: This forum really needs an upvote capability.  Thanks, John.

Is the upvote for demagoguery?  I don't assign beliefs to you that you don't espouse yourself, but John had not trouble using the BIG COMMIE paint brush on pbrower and me?  I wonder why?

Actually, you assign beliefs that I don't myself espouse all the time, as I've previously pointed out.  You just deny you do it.

I just take you at your word.  At most, I extrapolate.  John just assigns beliefs at will.

[David Horn]

(07-03-2018, 11:49 AM)John J. Xenakis Wrote:

(07-03-2018, 10:22 AM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: >   So Mexico is now in a Crisis period?  

Very, very, very deep into a Crisis era.

Here's a case where we can agree, I think.  AMLO will either make it much worse or much better.  The odds of things just continuing as they are is close to zero.