I’m a millennial?

[RadianMay]

Here comes the old debate of whether people born around the turn of the millennium are millennials or “zoomers”. I’m currently 19, (born 2001) and although S&H suggest that I should be a millennial, it doesn’t feel right that I’m in the same generation as 39 year olds. Even worse, I cannot imagine current 16 year olds (born in 2004) to be in the same generation either. At the same time, I don’t believe that the 3T ended until perhaps 2017 or even has just ended this year. Does anyone here share this cognitive dissonance?

[Ragnarök_62]

(07-30-2020, 07:34 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Here comes the old debate of whether people born around the turn of the millennium are millennials or “zoomers”. I’m currently 19, (born 2001) and although S&H suggest that I should be a millennial, it doesn’t feel right that I’m in the same generation as 39 year olds. Even worse, I cannot imagine current 16 year olds (born in 2004) to be in the same generation either. At the same time, I don’t believe that the 3T ended until perhaps 2017 or even has just ended this year. Does anyone here share this cognitive dissonance?

Yeah sure. We Jonesers get that a lot as well. Nature hates straight lines.

[Eric the Green]

(07-30-2020, 07:53 PM)Ragnarök_62 Wrote:

(07-30-2020, 07:34 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Here comes the old debate of whether people born around the turn of the millennium are millennials or “zoomers”. I’m currently 19, (born 2001) and although S&H suggest that I should be a millennial, it doesn’t feel right that I’m in the same generation as 39 year olds. Even worse, I cannot imagine current 16 year olds (born in 2004) to be in the same generation either. At the same time, I don’t believe that the 3T ended until perhaps 2017 or even has just ended this year. Does anyone here share this cognitive dissonance?

Yeah sure. We Jonesers get that a lot as well. Nature hates straight lines.

mikebert does. I myself do not. But I agree with Ragnarok too.

I prefer the ideas of cusps (narrowly defined as a year or two) and sub-generations (within generations).

[RadianMay]

(07-31-2020, 04:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: mikebert does. I myself do not. But I agree with Ragnarok too.

I prefer the ideas of cusps (narrowly defined as a year or two) and sub-generations (within generations).

Essentially zoomers are a sub-generation of millennials?

That could support the my suspicion that the 3T may have ended later than previously thought.

[Eric the Green]

(08-01-2020, 08:35 AM)RadianMay Wrote:

(07-31-2020, 04:43 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: mikebert does. I myself do not. But I agree with Ragnarok too.

I prefer the ideas of cusps (narrowly defined as a year or two) and sub-generations (within generations).

Essentially zoomers are a sub-generation of millennials?

That could support the my suspicion that the 3T may have ended later than previously thought.

No it would not do that. But it would support the idea that late millennials 1996-2003/4 are a bit different from earlier ones.

[2Legit2Quit]

(07-30-2020, 07:34 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Here comes the old debate of whether people born around the turn of the millennium are millennials or “zoomers”. I’m currently 19, (born 2001) and although S&H suggest that I should be a millennial, it doesn’t feel right that I’m in the same generation as 39 year olds. Even worse, I cannot imagine current 16 year olds (born in 2004) to be in the same generation either. At the same time, I don’t believe that the 3T ended until perhaps 2017 or even has just ended this year. Does anyone here share this cognitive dissonance?

I agree: People 22/23 and under today are definitely *not* Millenials, they are Zoomers.

In hindsight, people born in the late 70s through to about 1990 share a common childhood, and seem to be very similar.

From about 1990 on, there is a different flavor of millenial. 

People born from 1997 on onwards are definitely a different generation.

Maybe a good updated generation list looks something like this:

Boomer 1945-1960
X 1961-1976
Millenial 1977-1992
Zoomer 1993-2009

[David Horn]

(08-03-2020, 03:03 PM)2Legit2Quit Wrote:

(07-30-2020, 07:34 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Here comes the old debate of whether people born around the turn of the millennium are millennials or “zoomers”. I’m currently 19, (born 2001) and although S&H suggest that I should be a millennial, it doesn’t feel right that I’m in the same generation as 39 year olds. Even worse, I cannot imagine current 16 year olds (born in 2004) to be in the same generation either. At the same time, I don’t believe that the 3T ended until perhaps 2017 or even has just ended this year. Does anyone here share this cognitive dissonance?

I agree: People 22/23 and under today are definitely *not* Millenials, they are Zoomers.

In hindsight, people born in the late 70s through to about 1990 share a common childhood, and seem to be very similar.

From about 1990 on, there is a different flavor of millenial. 

People born from 1997 on onwards are definitely a different generation.

Maybe a good updated generation list looks something like this:

Boomer 1945-1960
X 1961-1976
Millenial 1977-1992
Zoomer 1993-2009

Generation means different things to different people, and the marker police have really been out in force since technology kicked-in in earnest.  In a way, I understand this, because the entire concept of "shared social experience" seems to have a decreasing shelf life as time passes.  How we all interact is constantly in flux -- especially now that the social environment is often dictated by what aps we use and how we use them.  OK, but does that really create generational boundaries or merely a series of social boundaries separate from the less frenetic economic, political and familial boundaries that constitute life?

[RadianMay]

(08-03-2020, 05:14 PM)David Horn Wrote: Generation means different things to different people, and the marker police have really been out in force since technology kicked-in in earnest.  In a way, I understand this, because the entire concept of "shared social experience" seems to have a decreasing shelf life as time passes.  How we all interact is constantly in flux -- especially now that the social environment is often dictated by what aps we use and how we use them.  OK, but does that really create generational boundaries or merely a series of social boundaries separate from the less frenetic economic, political and familial boundaries that constitute life?

If that is the case, wouldn’t that discredit the whole generational theory?
Another possibility is that generational differences only really crystallise after the crisis event, because that is the primary thing that causes people of different ages to experience differently and shape (or traumatise) them for life.

Actually it’s hard to qualify what actually causes people to think that they’re part of a generation, such as the separation between Millennials and Zoomers. Thinking about it more, the differences that come to mind to me between the two generations are due to age alone, not necessarily due to differing generational environments and upbringing.

It’s quite clear that if we use the classical birth years of millennials and “zoomers”, the tail end of the millennial generation (which I am part of) is still in late childhood, while the rest of the millennial are in varying ages of early adulthood, all the way up to mid life. Perhaps it’s hard to tell what the younger millennials will be like later, and we might be more similar to older millennials later.

[Eric the Green]

(08-03-2020, 08:20 PM)RadianMay Wrote:

(08-03-2020, 05:14 PM)David Horn Wrote: Generation means different things to different people, and the marker police have really been out in force since technology kicked-in in earnest.  In a way, I understand this, because the entire concept of "shared social experience" seems to have a decreasing shelf life as time passes.  How we all interact is constantly in flux -- especially now that the social environment is often dictated by what aps we use and how we use them.  OK, but does that really create generational boundaries or merely a series of social boundaries separate from the less frenetic economic, political and familial boundaries that constitute life?

If that is the case, wouldn’t that discredit the whole generational theory?
Another possibility is that generational differences only really crystallise after the crisis event, because that is the primary thing that causes people of different ages to experience differently and shape (or traumatise) them for life.

Actually it’s hard to qualify what actually causes people to think that they’re part of a generation, such as the separation between Millennials and Zoomers. Thinking about it more, the differences that come to mind to me between the two generations are due to age alone, not necessarily due to differing generational environments and upbringing.

It’s quite clear that if we use the classical birth years of millennials and “zoomers”, the tail end of the millennial generation (which I am part of) is still in late childhood, while the rest of the millennial are in varying ages of early adulthood, all the way up to mid life. Perhaps it’s hard to tell what the younger millennials will be like later, and we might be more similar to older millennials later.

The Gen Z designation that has been widely adopted comes from Pew Research, and indeed it is just a convenient dating tool based only on an age group that they chose. Meanwhile, Millennials, including their late cohorts grouped by Pew as Gen Z or Zoomers, are behaving like civics, just as the authors predicted, and social media involvement is the best example of that networking tendency of civics. And so is their more-liberal outlook on the need for collective institutional power, a necessary corrective to the neo-liberal Reaganomics they grew up in. Their networks may have a lot of diversity and separation from each other, but the fact that they are all so fully attached to social networks is the main trend, and a lot of the social networks overlap. Things on these networks can migrate to other platforms easily.

Not that very much of it gets here. This forum uses tech that is cumbersome (and not well suited to smart phones) and thus is probably more well-adapted to older generations. But that probably makes it somewhat better for actual communication, maybe. Even if not highly populated by millennials.

[David Horn]

(08-03-2020, 08:20 PM)RadianMay Wrote:

(08-03-2020, 05:14 PM)David Horn Wrote: Generation means different things to different people, and the marker police have really been out in force since technology kicked-in in earnest.  In a way, I understand this, because the entire concept of "shared social experience" seems to have a decreasing shelf life as time passes.  How we all interact is constantly in flux -- especially now that the social environment is often dictated by what aps we use and how we use them.  OK, but does that really create generational boundaries or merely a series of social boundaries separate from the less frenetic economic, political and familial boundaries that constitute life?

If that is the case, wouldn’t that discredit the whole generational theory?

Another possibility is that generational differences only really crystallise after the crisis event, because that is the primary thing that causes people of different ages to experience differently and shape (or traumatise) them for life.

Actually it’s hard to qualify what actually causes people to think that they’re part of a generation, such as the separation between Millennials and Zoomers. Thinking about it more, the differences that come to mind to me between the two generations are due to age alone, not necessarily due to differing generational environments and upbringing.

It’s quite clear that if we use the classical birth years of millennials and “zoomers”, the tail end of the millennial generation (which I am part of) is still in late childhood, while the rest of the millennial are in varying ages of early adulthood, all the way up to mid life. Perhaps it’s hard to tell what the younger millennials will be like later, and we might be more similar to older millennials later.

All good points that need to be tested, and the test is running as we speak.  Both Bob Butler and I share a distrust of using older saeculae too strictly as guides to this one because the Information Age is unprecedented.  That said, we shouldn't ignore them entirely either.  You're part of the solution, whatever it will be -- and rightly so. You'll live your life in the new reality.  We older folks will observe for a while and move on.  So this belongs to you.  Do what you think is best, and take advice with the appropriate skepticism of one with more skin in the game.  Your generation(s) will succeed or not on your efforts.

[jleagans]

The Pew numbers are wrong and terrible.

To the original poster, you're definitely a Zoomer.  I would put the final possible Millennial year at 2000 with much of 1997-2000 being cuspy.

[RadianMay]

If that's the case, is it possible that the turning years are lagging further and further behind the birth years of every generational cohort?
I didn't grow up in America, so I didn't really have the first hand experience of living in a pre-2008 America. From the people I know, it does seem that the 2008 crisis did affect their lives a lot, but I'm not sure whether it's the event that affected their lives the most.

But I would think that our cohort had mostly grown up during the post 2008 era. There does seem to be quite a big difference between our and pre-2000 mindsets however, so I would think such a proposition makes sense.

[RadianMay]

Also, we in general have no consciousness at all of 9/11. I think it's just something that's out of our mind rather than something we register as a seismic shift. So, I can't really directly comment on the effects that 9/11 has or has had on our generation.

[jleagans]

(08-13-2020, 06:55 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Also, we in general have no consciousness at all of 9/11. I think it's just something that's out of our mind rather than something we register as a seismic shift. So, I can't really directly comment on the effects that 9/11 has or has had on our generation.

I would argue that a lot of the generational impacts aren't really about that, but more about how parenting strategies change.  American parents and the zeitgeist overall took a darker turn after 9/11 that led to overparenting/lawnmower parenting creating the sheltered gen Z.  I would point to the rapidly rising mental health rates for anxiety and depression in college as evidence.

[David Horn]

(08-17-2020, 06:25 PM)jleagans Wrote:

(08-13-2020, 06:55 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Also, we in general have no consciousness at all of 9/11. I think it's just something that's out of our mind rather than something we register as a seismic shift. So, I can't really directly comment on the effects that 9/11 has or has had on our generation.

I would argue that a lot of the generational impacts aren't really about that, but more about how parenting strategies change.  American parents and the zeitgeist overall took a darker turn after 9/11 that led to overparenting/lawnmower parenting creating the sheltered gen Z.  I would point to the rapidly rising mental health rates for anxiety and depression in college as evidence.

There's a lot to this.  My son and DIL have 2004 triplets, and they parented in full overparenting mode for years ... until they stopped.  Assuming that Zoomer sticks, the trips are definitely in that group.  But the packed-in-bubblewrap style of parenting is already falling out of favor (at a time it may actually be needed most), though parents are still protective in the historical sense.  In any case, our three are definitely Artists in temperament.  How the COVID stresses affect that is still TBD.

[RadianMay]

I wasn’t born and didn’t grow up in the United States, but have been heavily influenced by its culture. However, the one thing I can relate to with Zoomers is overprotected parenting. My parents greatly influenced me in childhood, and raised me in a mildly overprotected manner. This past echoes rather heavily throughout my life now, as I am exiting late childhood and beginning adult life. I think this very fact will bind me to Gen Z, even though I was born in the “fringe” years of the generational timeline.

[jleagans]

(08-18-2020, 10:05 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-17-2020, 06:25 PM)jleagans Wrote:

(08-13-2020, 06:55 PM)RadianMay Wrote: Also, we in general have no consciousness at all of 9/11. I think it's just something that's out of our mind rather than something we register as a seismic shift. So, I can't really directly comment on the effects that 9/11 has or has had on our generation.

I would argue that a lot of the generational impacts aren't really about that, but more about how parenting strategies change.  American parents and the zeitgeist overall took a darker turn after 9/11 that led to overparenting/lawnmower parenting creating the sheltered gen Z.  I would point to the rapidly rising mental health rates for anxiety and depression in college as evidence.

There's a lot to this.  My son and DIL have 2004 triplets, and they parented in full overparenting mode for years ... until they stopped.  Assuming that Zoomer sticks, the trips are definitely in that group.  But the packed-in-bubblewrap style of parenting is already falling out of favor (at a time it may actually be needed most), though parents are still protective in the historical sense.  In any case, our three are definitely Artists in temperament.  How the COVID stresses affect that is still TBD.

My brother is raising kids right now and I think they are more chillled out as your son seems to have been, but covid is having a lot of automatic overprotection. Kids being raised for a year (minimum) with limited social interaction is only adding to the overprotection.

[jleagans]

(08-18-2020, 07:57 PM)RadianMay Wrote: I wasn’t born and didn’t grow up in the United States, but have been heavily influenced by its culture. However, the one thing I can relate to with Zoomers is overprotected parenting. My parents greatly influenced me in childhood, and raised me in a mildly overprotected manner. This past echoes rather heavily throughout my life now, as I am exiting late childhood and beginning adult life. I think this very fact will bind me to Gen Z, even though I was born in the “fringe” years of the generational timeline.

2001, imo, isn't a fringe year.  You're a pure zoomer, maybe zoomer prime

[Warren Dew]

(08-04-2020, 12:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: The Gen Z designation that has been widely adopted comes from Pew Research, and indeed it is just a convenient dating tool based only on an age group that they chose. Meanwhile, Millennials, including their late cohorts grouped by Pew as Gen Z or Zoomers, are behaving like civics, just as the authors predicted, and social media involvement is the best example of that networking tendency of civics. And so is their more-liberal outlook on the need for collective institutional power, a necessary corrective to the neo-liberal Reaganomics they grew up in.

I would agree, except that "collective institutional power" is exactly the opposite of "liberal".  But hey, if you want to call President Trump's more authoritarian tendencies "liberal", I guess you can use the terminology how you like.

[RadianMay]

(08-19-2020, 01:59 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(08-04-2020, 12:13 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: The Gen Z designation that has been widely adopted comes from Pew Research, and indeed it is just a convenient dating tool based only on an age group that they chose. Meanwhile, Millennials, including their late cohorts grouped by Pew as Gen Z or Zoomers, are behaving like civics, just as the authors predicted, and social media involvement is the best example of that networking tendency of civics. And so is their more-liberal outlook on the need for collective institutional power, a necessary corrective to the neo-liberal Reaganomics they grew up in.

I would agree, except that "collective institutional power" is exactly the opposite of "liberal".  But hey, if you want to call President Trump's more authoritarian tendencies "liberal", I guess you can use the terminology how you like.

In this case, neoliberalism refers to the economic policies introduced in the 1980s “Reaganomics”, which deregulated the economic markets. It was this market freedom which made the term neoliberalism stick.

On the other hand, the “more liberal outlook on the need for collective institutional power”, refers to a more open attitude towards stronger institutions, as opposed to the economic freedom connotations of neoliberalism of the previous age.

As you can see, the definition and connotations of “liberal” changes with the times and generations.