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05-19-2021, 11:45 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-19-2021, 11:47 PM by X Marks the Spot.)
In this article from the Atlantic, Jean Twenge disses Millennials.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc...ic/256638/
Twenge writes: "The first books written about Millennials were not just positive but glowing. The best known of these, Millennials Rising, is subtitled The Next Great Generation. Authors Neil Howe and William Strauss predicted that Millennials would resemble the generation who fought World War II: conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government. 'Once this new youth persona begins to focus on convention, community, and civic renewal, America will be on the brink of becoming someplace very new,' they write."
But you Millennials ARE conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government!
She also writes: "Howe and Strauss were right about other trends -- rates of teen pregnancy, early sexual intercourse, alcohol abuse, and youth crime have continued to decline. However, these behaviors aren't related at all to civic orientation, and have a tangential relationship at best to the desire to help others or contribute to society. They are also determined by many factors beyond generational attitudes, such as demographics, drug wars, policing, birth control availability, and even -- as the authors of Freakonomics argued -- the legalization of abortion."
No, Millennials have decreased teen pregnancy, alcohol abuse and crime because they're a buncha wholesome Scouts! S&H got it right, foo's!
Why do so many people fail to see the social conservatism and conformism of Millennials?
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It's hard to avoid seeing the backlash that decades of hedonism have generated, and the hedonists exist broadly in both political parties and all segments of society and culture. What this portends is still TBD. The last Civics were progressive in politics and culturally conservative at the same time. That may be true this time too, but the jury is still out on the culture piece. Their politics are already tilted pretty far to the left.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(05-19-2021, 11:45 PM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: In this article from the Atlantic, Jean Twenge disses Millennials.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc...ic/256638/
Twenge writes: "The first books written about Millennials were not just positive but glowing. The best known of these, Millennials Rising, is subtitled The Next Great Generation. Authors Neil Howe and William Strauss predicted that Millennials would resemble the generation who fought World War II: conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government. 'Once this new youth persona begins to focus on convention, community, and civic renewal, America will be on the brink of becoming someplace very new,' they write."
But you Millennials ARE conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government!
Social conservatism is compatible with greater equality in economic result. Great disparities of wealth and poverty are not consistent with conformity. Maybe such requires acquiescence of the working poor in their own deprivation, but that implies that people are already defeated in the struggle for human dignity.
People start turning to their immediate community when the overall society fails politically and economically. Consider how large numbers of people who had no jobs started small businesses in the 1930's; many of the corporate behemoths had failed, and when you see attorneys and accountants becoming clerks instead of bureaucrats you may wonder what sorts of opportunities exist. People decide very often to create their own opportunities, once often expressed by people selling apples at street corners. Some such people ended up opening grocery and dry-goods stores. Two of those were Sam Walton and Hendrik Meijer.
So you think small and stay put, and commit everything to a low-yield activity from which you cannot run away. A low yield is better than no yield, even if the yield is basically a low income that comes from your travails. Oddly the 1930's were the best time for starting a business because labor was cheap, employees were able to get their relatives to be a reliable base of customers, real estate was cheap, and inventory and raw materials were available at fire-sale prices without the aroma of smoke. As the overall economy improves the profits become much larger than private-sector pay.
Americans are much more conformist than you might believe at first. Americans have not cast off traditions wildly; if anything we have multiple traditions competing for allegiance and for economic roles.
Quote:She also writes: "Howe and Strauss were right about other trends -- rates of teen pregnancy, early sexual intercourse, alcohol abuse, and youth crime have continued to decline. However, these behaviors aren't related at all to civic orientation, and have a tangential relationship at best to the desire to help others or contribute to society. They are also determined by many factors beyond generational attitudes, such as demographics, drug wars, policing, birth control availability, and even -- as the authors of Freakonomics argued -- the legalization of abortion."
But those trends suggest the conformity of peer pressure. People accused peer pressure of getting 2T-era kids to do drugs and petty crime... except that many youth polarized into their own cliques that disapproved of drugs, crime, and promiscuity. Some people succeed and some fail, and those who reject really-bad habits (drugs, crime, and promiscuity) are more likely to succeed if they get the chance. Those who have those bad habits fail if they get opportunity offered to them on a silver platter.
Quote:No, Millennials have decreased teen pregnancy, alcohol abuse and crime because they're a buncha wholesome Scouts! S&H got it right, foo's!
They saw what happened to X'ers who did those things, and it wasn't pretty.
Quote:Why do so many people fail to see the social conservatism and conformism of Millennials?
Americans are conforming to different traditions. if you are to suggest two ethnic groups that statistically do well, Jews and Chinese-Americans have very different traditions, and they could never adopt the ways of each other. But statistically they do certain things much the same, like putting a high value on formal education.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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05-20-2021, 12:54 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-20-2021, 12:56 PM by Eric the Green.)
(05-19-2021, 11:45 PM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: In this article from the Atlantic, Jean Twenge disses Millennials.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc...ic/256638/
Twenge writes: "The first books written about Millennials were not just positive but glowing. The best known of these, Millennials Rising, is subtitled The Next Great Generation. Authors Neil Howe and William Strauss predicted that Millennials would resemble the generation who fought World War II: conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government. 'Once this new youth persona begins to focus on convention, community, and civic renewal, America will be on the brink of becoming someplace very new,' they write."
But you Millennials ARE conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government!
She also writes: "Howe and Strauss were right about other trends -- rates of teen pregnancy, early sexual intercourse, alcohol abuse, and youth crime have continued to decline. However, these behaviors aren't related at all to civic orientation, and have a tangential relationship at best to the desire to help others or contribute to society. They are also determined by many factors beyond generational attitudes, such as demographics, drug wars, policing, birth control availability, and even -- as the authors of Freakonomics argued -- the legalization of abortion."
No, Millennials have decreased teen pregnancy, alcohol abuse and crime because they're a buncha wholesome Scouts! S&H got it right, foo's!
Why do so many people fail to see the social conservatism and conformism of Millennials?
Why indeed. And their "the desire to help others or contribute to society." S&H got it right in spades.
I would say the generational trends among Boomers and Xers to be more prone to crime, created a reaction toward more policing and drug wars. It works both ways. But the result is a generation that is more law-abiding. And now the emphasis on policing is receding because of the injustices it spawned. History creates generations, and generations create history; that's the S&H claim.
I agree with the comments by Brower and David Horn too.
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Another person who pooh-poohs the great gospel of S&H is Libby from Vox:
https://www.vox.com/2014/7/26/5936723/mi...illennials
She says Millennials Rising got it wrong in most ways.
But Millennials Rising got all of those points right! Millennials ARE "introduc[ing]courtship rituals that stress reciprocal duties and deference to parents — modern variants of the young prince delivering a dragon's head to the father of his beloved"! Millennials ARE marrying and having children earlier than any generation since the Silent -- and more of them are having children than with either Boomers or "childfree" Xers.
And some way to diss school uniforms! I'm sure the Millennial kids LOVED their uniforms! School uniforms are great -- it makes them all look like Boy Scouts and Girl Scouts.
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(05-20-2021, 11:55 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-19-2021, 11:45 PM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: In this article from the Atlantic, Jean Twenge disses Millennials.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc...ic/256638/
Twenge writes: "The first books written about Millennials were not just positive but glowing. The best known of these, Millennials Rising, is subtitled The Next Great Generation. Authors Neil Howe and William Strauss predicted that Millennials would resemble the generation who fought World War II: conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government. 'Once this new youth persona begins to focus on convention, community, and civic renewal, America will be on the brink of becoming someplace very new,' they write."
But you Millennials ARE conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government!
Social conservatism is compatible with greater equality in economic result. Great disparities of wealth and poverty are not consistent with conformity. Maybe such requires acquiescence of the working poor in their own deprivation, but that implies that people are already defeated in the struggle for human dignity.
People start turning to their immediate community when the overall society fails politically and economically. Consider how large numbers of people who had no jobs started small businesses in the 1930's; many of the corporate behemoths had failed, and when you see attorneys and accountants becoming clerks instead of bureaucrats you may wonder what sorts of opportunities exist. People decide very often to create their own opportunities, once often expressed by people selling apples at street corners. Some such people ended up opening grocery and dry-goods stores. Two of those were Sam Walton and Hendrik Meijer.
So you think small and stay put, and commit everything to a low-yield activity from which you cannot run away. A low yield is better than no yield, even if the yield is basically a low income that comes from your travails. Oddly the 1930's were the best time for starting a business because labor was cheap, employees were able to get their relatives to be a reliable base of customers, real estate was cheap, and inventory and raw materials were available at fire-sale prices without the aroma of smoke. As the overall economy improves the profits become much larger than private-sector pay.
Americans are much more conformist than you might believe at first. Americans have not cast off traditions wildly; if anything we have multiple traditions competing for allegiance and for economic roles.
Quote:She also writes: "Howe and Strauss were right about other trends -- rates of teen pregnancy, early sexual intercourse, alcohol abuse, and youth crime have continued to decline. However, these behaviors aren't related at all to civic orientation, and have a tangential relationship at best to the desire to help others or contribute to society. They are also determined by many factors beyond generational attitudes, such as demographics, drug wars, policing, birth control availability, and even -- as the authors of Freakonomics argued -- the legalization of abortion."
But those trends suggest the conformity of peer pressure. People accused peer pressure of getting 2T-era kids to do drugs and petty crime... except that many youth polarized into their own cliques that disapproved of drugs, crime, and promiscuity. Some people succeed and some fail, and those who reject really-bad habits (drugs, crime, and promiscuity) are more likely to succeed if they get the chance. Those who have those bad habits fail if they get opportunity offered to them on a silver platter.
Quote:No, Millennials have decreased teen pregnancy, alcohol abuse and crime because they're a buncha wholesome Scouts! S&H got it right, foo's!
They saw what happened to X'ers who did those things, and it wasn't pretty.
Quote:Why do so many people fail to see the social conservatism and conformism of Millennials?
Americans are conforming to different traditions. if you are to suggest two ethnic groups that statistically do well, Jews and Chinese-Americans have very different traditions, and they could never adopt the ways of each other. But statistically they do certain things much the same, like putting a high value on formal education.
(05-20-2021, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (05-19-2021, 11:45 PM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: In this article from the Atlantic, Jean Twenge disses Millennials.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc...ic/256638/
Twenge writes: "The first books written about Millennials were not just positive but glowing. The best known of these, Millennials Rising, is subtitled The Next Great Generation. Authors Neil Howe and William Strauss predicted that Millennials would resemble the generation who fought World War II: conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government. 'Once this new youth persona begins to focus on convention, community, and civic renewal, America will be on the brink of becoming someplace very new,' they write."
But you Millennials ARE conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government!
She also writes: "Howe and Strauss were right about other trends -- rates of teen pregnancy, early sexual intercourse, alcohol abuse, and youth crime have continued to decline. However, these behaviors aren't related at all to civic orientation, and have a tangential relationship at best to the desire to help others or contribute to society. They are also determined by many factors beyond generational attitudes, such as demographics, drug wars, policing, birth control availability, and even -- as the authors of Freakonomics argued -- the legalization of abortion."
No, Millennials have decreased teen pregnancy, alcohol abuse and crime because they're a buncha wholesome Scouts! S&H got it right, foo's!
Why do so many people fail to see the social conservatism and conformism of Millennials?
Why indeed. And their "the desire to help others or contribute to society." S&H got it right in spades.
I would say the generational trends among Boomers and Xers to be more prone to crime, created a reaction toward more policing and drug wars. It works both ways. But the result is a generation that is more law-abiding. And now the emphasis on policing is receding because of the injustices it spawned. History creates generations, and generations create history; that's the S&H claim.
I agree with the comments by Brower and David Horn too.
You know it, Eric! But I don't like the anti-cop trend. Millennials don't either. Because of 9/11, Millennials are 100% pro-police!
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I want the brutal cops out of the police forces. A reputation for police brutality does not foster acquiescence with law enforcement; indeed it tends to foster violent resistance to arrests that can culminate in offenders killing cops or cops killing offenders.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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As for Millennial adults being conformist... they are. Ethnic and religious differences are real, and many Millennial adults endorse the tradition into which they were born. That may imply very different traditions, but who says that people all conform to some artificial tradition that obliterates others? (At that I exempt slave-descended American blacks whose first masters brutally obliterated any African heritage. As David Hackett Fisher says in Albion's Seed, African-American culture is highly artificial in origin even if it has been highly creative and innovative. The tradition has been around long enough to seem practically eternal.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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05-23-2021, 12:24 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-23-2021, 12:27 PM by Eric the Green.)
(05-19-2021, 11:45 PM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: (05-20-2021, 12:54 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (05-19-2021, 11:45 PM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: In this article from the Atlantic, Jean Twenge disses Millennials.
https://www.theatlantic.com/national/arc...ic/256638/
Twenge writes: "The first books written about Millennials were not just positive but glowing. The best known of these, Millennials Rising, is subtitled The Next Great Generation. Authors Neil Howe and William Strauss predicted that Millennials would resemble the generation who fought World War II: conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government. 'Once this new youth persona begins to focus on convention, community, and civic renewal, America will be on the brink of becoming someplace very new,' they write."
But you Millennials ARE conformist, socially conservative, and highly involved in the community and interested in government!
She also writes: "Howe and Strauss were right about other trends -- rates of teen pregnancy, early sexual intercourse, alcohol abuse, and youth crime have continued to decline. However, these behaviors aren't related at all to civic orientation, and have a tangential relationship at best to the desire to help others or contribute to society. They are also determined by many factors beyond generational attitudes, such as demographics, drug wars, policing, birth control availability, and even -- as the authors of Freakonomics argued -- the legalization of abortion."
No, Millennials have decreased teen pregnancy, alcohol abuse and crime because they're a buncha wholesome Scouts! S&H got it right, foo's!
Why do so many people fail to see the social conservatism and conformism of Millennials?
Why indeed. And their "the desire to help others or contribute to society." S&H got it right in spades.
I would say the generational trends among Boomers and Xers to be more prone to crime, created a reaction toward more policing and drug wars. It works both ways. But the result is a generation that is more law-abiding. And now the emphasis on policing is receding because of the injustices it spawned. History creates generations, and generations create history; that's the S&H claim.
I agree with the comments by Brower and David Horn too.
You know it, Eric! But I don't like the anti-cop trend. Millennials don't either. Because of 9/11, Millennials are 100% pro-police!
Well, I certainly think Millennials were well represented in all the big marches against police brutality after the outrageous Floyd murder. 9-11 has nothing much to do with police; and I don't think millennials particularly support the wars. But anti-terrorist measures by the FBI and Homeland Security; most of us support these. The USA has been able to tamp down terrorist attacks since 9-11.
No generation wants cops that are racist or who don't follow the law, nor for them to get away with murders as they so often do. But being more law-abiding, millennials support police in general. Penalties were too stiff, and the wrong people have been put in prison too often, since the law and order trend began about 3 or 4 decades ago. This plus the drug war has resulted in overcrowded prisons, the worst of any developed country. There's a bipartisan trend to loosen this reign of terror, especially among ethnic groups who have felt the brunt of it. Justice reform is happening, and drug laws are being loosened too (especially regarding marijuana). Millennials support these trends.
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05-24-2021, 01:01 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 01:02 AM by X Marks the Spot.)
Eric Meece Wrote:Well, I certainly think Millennials were well represented in all the big marches against police brutality after the outrageous Floyd murder.
Maybe most of them were just young-looking Xers? Fortysomethings can look young enough to fool you.
Quote:9-11 has nothing much to do with police;
This is just wrong. On 9/11, police officers, along with firefighters, became heroes when they saved people's lives on that tragic day. Because of this event, Millennials became pro-police; they became very patriotic; and they became very pro-Bush. They rallied around the president and supported his wars. In fact, Millennials turning out to vote was a big reason Bush won re-election in 2004.
In 2016, Millennials grudgingly voted for Hillary in the general election, because she was the more Establishment candidate, but the clear Millennial favorite in the primary was Jeb Bush! Jeb rallied Millennials to turn out and vote like to candidate before or since. Millennials remembered their favorite president from 2001-2009 and turned out to try to help his brother win, but alas, the alt-right, made up of Boomers and Xers, put the Trumpster on the Republican ticket instead.
Quote:and I don't think millennials particularly support the wars.
Millennials are so patriotic that they supported both the 2001 War on Afghanistan and the 2003 War on Iraq! After 9/11, it would be disrespectful to your country, and to president Bush, not to support those wars. Instead Millennials got with the program and enlisted after 9/11 in numbers not seen since WWII!
Quote:But anti-terrorist measures by the FBI and Homeland Security; most of us support these. The USA has been able to tamp down terrorist attacks since 9-11.
Definitely! But we also need isntitutions like ICE.
Quote:No generation wants cops that are racist or who don't follow the law, nor for them to get away with murders as they so often do.
But very few cops are racist or break their own laws. Very few cops who murder get away this murder.
Quote:But being more law-abiding, millennials support police in general.
Definitely!
Quote:Penalties were too stiff, and the wrong people have been put in prison too often, since the law and order trend began about 3 or 4 decades ago. This plus the drug war has resulted in overcrowded prisons, the worst of any developed country.
What's the alternative? Chaos on the streets?
Quote:Justice reform is happening, and drug laws are being loosened too (especially regarding marijuana). Millennials support these trends.
Legalizing marijuana is a readical idea. Millennials don't like radicalism.
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05-24-2021, 07:13 AM
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 07:14 AM by sbarrera.)
I agree with other posters here arguing that Millennials are conformist. That's what cancel culture and the social media hivemind are all about. And yes, the authors did get some predictions wrong - specifically about early marriage (Millennials are the *latest* marrying generation ever) and possibly about gender roles (though one could argue that gender roles are being reconfigured not eliminated). But how could they not get some things wrong when they predicted so much?
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(05-24-2021, 01:01 AM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: This is just wrong. On 9/11, police officers, along with firefighters, became heroes when they saved people's lives on that tragic day. Because of this event, Millennials became pro-police; they became very patriotic; and they became very pro-Bush. They rallied around the president and supported his wars. In fact, Millennials turning out to vote was a big reason Bush won re-election in 2004.
Millenials also volunteered to fight in those wars, to the point that we never needed a draft. That sure didn't happen with the Vietnam War in the 1960s.
I wonder if Millenials saw the Afghanistan and Iraq wars more in terms of good versus evil - with us as "good", of course - than did older generations.
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05-24-2021, 03:48 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-25-2021, 02:14 PM by Eric the Green.)
(05-24-2021, 01:01 AM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: Eric Meece Wrote:Well, I certainly think Millennials were well represented in all the big marches against police brutality after the outrageous Floyd murder.
Maybe most of them were just young-looking Xers? Fortysomethings can look young enough to fool you.
Millennials are the most active in all demonstrations today just from the fact they are young and able. There is no doubt that Millennials are more diverse and more liberal, by a wide margin, over previous generations. Of course they came out and protested the Floyd murder, as they did for March for Our Lives for gun control, Climate School Strikes, and the anti-Trump women's marches. All of these are among the largest movements ever. I don't think you can arbitrarily decide that everyone in them was over 40.
Quote:Quote:9-11 has nothing much to do with police;
This is just wrong. On 9/11, police officers, along with firefighters, became heroes when they saved people's lives on that tragic day. Because of this event, Millennials became pro-police; they became very patriotic; and they became very pro-Bush. They rallied around the president and supported his wars. In fact, Millennials turning out to vote was a big reason Bush won re-election in 2004.
In 2016, Millennials grudgingly voted for Hillary in the general election, because she was the more Establishment candidate, but the clear Millennial favorite in the primary was Jeb Bush! Jeb rallied Millennials to turn out and vote like no candidate before or since. Millennials remembered their favorite president from 2001-2009 and turned out to try to help his brother win, but alas, the alt-right, made up of Boomers and Xers, put the Trumpster on the Republican ticket instead.
I don't know where you are coming from. This comment has nothing to do with the facts. Millennials came out in droves to vote against Bush in 2004. Bush got votes from the religious right. Some Millennials did sign up for the military after 9-11, I give you that.
Hillary was not the Establishment candidate; Trump was. Jeb Bush failed miserably in the primary in 2016. Millennials have voted strongly Democratic in every election and put Obama in the White House.
More on Jeb Bush's failure: https://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cass...gn-jeb-did
A rising blue tide: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/20...he-nation/
Generation Jones (younger boomers and older Xers) gave Bush the victory in 2004, not Millennials: https://www.post-gazette.com/opinion/Op-...0412050257
Quote:Quote:and I don't think millennials particularly support the wars.
Millennials are so patriotic that they supported both the 2001 War on Afghanistan and the 2003 War on Iraq! After 9/11, it would be disrespectful to your country, and to president Bush, not to support those wars. Instead Millennials got with the program and enlisted after 9/11 in numbers not seen since WWII!
Quote:But anti-terrorist measures by the FBI and Homeland Security; most of us support these. The USA has been able to tamp down terrorist attacks since 9-11.
Definitely! But we also need institutions like ICE.
Powered by Millennials, Democrats increased their vote in the Southwest because hispanics opposed Trump's use of ICE and his immigration policy. We don't need ICE to pick up people off the street and deport them. We need the immigration bill passed by the Senate during the Bush administration but knocked down by the right-wing Tea-Party House.
Quote:Quote:No generation wants cops that are racist or who don't follow the law, nor for them to get away with murders as they so often do.
But very few cops are racist or break their own laws. Very few cops who murder get away (with) this murder.
Those who watch this situation, and most blacks, disagree with you.
"Police officers are prosecuted for murder in less than 2 percent of fatal shootings"
https://www.vox.com/21497089/derek-chauv...ves-matter
Quote:Quote:Penalties were too stiff, and the wrong people have been put in prison too often, since the law and order trend began about 3 or 4 decades ago. This plus the drug war has resulted in overcrowded prisons, the worst of any developed country.
What's the alternative? Chaos on the streets?
We don't need tyranny and injustice. We don't need more people in prison than other countries. We can be a free and fair country and still enforce the law.
Quote:Quote:Justice reform is happening, and drug laws are being loosened too (especially regarding marijuana). Millennials support these trends.
Legalizing marijuana is a radical idea. Millennials don't like radicalism.
Legalizing marijuana is a moderate idea that has been overdue for 50 years. Many states have passed some form of this. Millennials frequently like radical liberal policy positions.
The youth are voting overwhelmingly Democratic, but perhaps the circle you inhabit is young white men, who still preferred Trump in 2020 by a narrow margin.
https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2020...ing-trends
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(05-24-2021, 07:13 AM)sbarrera Wrote: I agree with other posters here arguing that Millennials are conformist. That's what cancel culture and the social media hivemind are all about. And yes, the authors did get some predictions wrong - specifically about early marriage (Millennials are the *latest* marrying generation ever) and possibly about gender roles (though one could argue that gender roles are being reconfigured not eliminated). But how could they not get some things wrong when they predicted so much?
You seem to be correct Steve, according to this report: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/29/well/...ating.html
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05-24-2021, 06:11 PM
(This post was last modified: 05-24-2021, 06:18 PM by Tim Randal Walker.)
Regarding marijuana....
This is a relatively mild stuff, compared to other drugs. legalization, or at least decriminalization, isn't particularly radical.
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(05-24-2021, 06:11 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: Regarding marijuana....
This is a relatively mild stuff, compared to other drugs. legalization, or at least decriminalization, isn't particularly radical.
A 4T might have society relax on one old stricture (LGBT rights) while getting more rigid in enforcement on other matters of sexuality and marital life. People who got slaps on the wrist for messing with children now get long prison terms if they don't "off" themselves as did the late Jeffrey Epstein. Likewise we see more of a crackdown on domestic violence.
Marijuana obviously isn't as bad as opiates, meth, and date-rape drugs. Perhaps marijuana might serve as an exit from more dangerous drugs... and if not, it can be taxed like alcohol and tobacco. Tax revenue gets dicey in a 4T, which might be part of the explanation of FDR seeking the repeal of prohibition in the last 4T.
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I'll say this about marijuana legalization - it's not nearly as much of a culture wars lightning rod as abortion, gun control, or even trans rights. There are few people left who strongly oppose it.
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I am fervently anti-dope. I still have my limitations. First, the war against drugs has degenerated into the war on addicts; second, marijuana is tiny stuff in contrast to the more dangerous, demeaning stuff.
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(05-25-2021, 12:43 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: (05-24-2021, 06:11 PM)Tim Randal Walker Wrote: Regarding marijuana....
This is a relatively mild stuff, compared to other drugs. legalization, or at least decriminalization, isn't particularly radical.
A 4T might have society relax on one old stricture (LGBT rights) while getting more rigid in enforcement on other matters of sexuality and marital life. People who got slaps on the wrist for messing with children now get long prison terms if they don't "off" themselves as did the late Jeffrey Epstein. Likewise we see more of a crackdown on domestic violence.
Marijuana obviously isn't as bad as opiates, meth, and date-rape drugs. Perhaps marijuana might serve as an exit from more dangerous drugs... and if not, it can be taxed like alcohol and tobacco. Tax revenue gets dicey in a 4T, which might be part of the explanation of FDR seeking the repeal of prohibition in the last 4T.
The scenario described here could be a prelude for the domino of prohibition against sex work to fall. It could be taxed as well. Do you think we’ See that before this turning is exhausted?
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(05-24-2021, 02:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: (05-24-2021, 01:01 AM)X Marks the Spot Wrote: This is just wrong. On 9/11, police officers, along with firefighters, became heroes when they saved people's lives on that tragic day. Because of this event, Millennials became pro-police; they became very patriotic; and they became very pro-Bush. They rallied around the president and supported his wars. In fact, Millennials turning out to vote was a big reason Bush won re-election in 2004.
Millennials also volunteered to fight in those wars, to the point that we never needed a draft. That sure didn't happen with the Vietnam War in the 1960s.
I wonder if Millennials saw the Afghanistan and Iraq wars more in terms of good versus evil - with us as "good", of course - than did older generations.
First, let's agree that the scale of the two war eras is dramatically different. Vietnam, like Korea before it, required a massive build-up. I know, because i was part of it. We put nearly an additional one Million men in uniform for several years, roughly 1966-1970. And unlike the Iraq and Afghan Wars, Vietnam was a meat grinder.
The other significant difference is work opportunity. Millennials joined with the intent of making this a career, though most never did. The joiners weremostly from rural or other stressed areas, where work was low paid, hard to find or both.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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