I VOTE YES ON CALEXIT!

[Eric the Green]

If CA secedes, what are the chances that Lincoln Trump will sum up his effort to crush us so eloquently?

[radind]

(11-13-2016, 01:34 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

My the Republic survive.

[Odin]

(11-13-2016, 12:03 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Since playwrite seems to be getting especially viscious, I think now's the time to remind him and the other smug establishment Democrats that they LOST BIGLY.  That means you went wrong somewhere.  Think about it a little bit.  Maybe Shaun King can help you out with that.  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...-1.2866238

Besides, I don't know why you should be attacking Odin, considering he did exactly what you wanted--he "fell in line" and voted for Clinton in the general (at least I'm assuming he did, judging from his posts leading up to the election).  I did too.

Quote:The Democratic Party is having an identity crisis. While the groundswell of grassroots support in its base is anti-police brutality, pro-environment, pro-immigrant, anti-war, pro-$15 minimum wage, for the legalization of marijuana, and strongly against the Dakota Access Pipeline — the party in general, and Hillary Clinton in particular, lack core convictions on all of these issues and it shows. I’d be that nearly every single activist and leader in each of those niche communities will tell you that they feel like strangers in the Democratic Party.

Although it already seems like ancient history, you must remember that the head of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, left in a shroud of scandal surrounding emails that were derogatory towards Bernie Sanders and only confirmed the anti-Bernie bias many of us knew existed for more than a year. Three other top officials from the DNC were fired for the very same thing.

Longtime Democratic operative, Donna Brazile, was brought in to replace Wasserman Schultz. It seemed like a smart move, but further email leaks have only showed us that she, too, was a part of the problem as she continually fed the Clinton campaign questions that Hillary would receive for debates during the primary. The move has all but eroded trust in her leadership from progressives who were already deeply skeptical of the party.

Before the Democratic primaries even began or any of the candidates had their first debate, Hillary Clinton and her team had already sowed up commitments from hundreds of career politicians to serve as her superdelegates — building her what often looked like an insurmountable lead. Even in states where Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton by a landslide, party operatives routinely pledged their support to her anyway — all but ignoring the reality that Bernie was building the very type of populist movement that could have actually defeated Donald Trump.

As we now see, this election was not about high-skilled political operatives, polls or even national campaign experience. Trump had none of that. This campaign was about large crowds, big events, momentum, tone and social media. Bernie did those things well. Bernie was the anti-Trump. Trump lacks integrity. Bernie is known for his. Trump is a shady billionaire who has stiffed tons of everyday people. Bernie has spent his whole life fighting for working class folk. Trump is a liar and Bernie is known for his straight-to-the-point honesty.

Hillary Clinton was an absolutely terrible matchup for Donald Trump. I said as much in May when every poll that was released showed Bernie crushing Trump, but Hillary consistently struggling against him. Time and time and time again, polls showed Hillary struggling against Trump. Instead of taking the time to truly understand them, expert pundits and pollsters opted to repeatedly dismiss the validity or methodology of those polls. Clearly, polls like the LA Times/USC poll, which consistently showed Trump ahead, but was widely dismissed as junk science as a result, were on to something.

But that was the M.O. of the Democratic Party from the time the primaries began until we were all gobsmacked by a Trump victory — dismiss all evidence that says anything other than Hillary Clinton was inevitable. But here we are.

The Democratic Party can no longer ride the coattails of President Obama. The Democratic Party truly needs to start over from scratch and put people at its core. It clearly has no idea what it’s doing and has, as a result, put us all in danger.

The Democratic Party is stuck in a bubble. It's not just their tone-deafness in the presidential campaign, but also it's complete, utter lack of attention to state and local races.

The Dems have three huge problems right now. One is that they need to get out of the "every populist is McGovern 2.0" mentality that was behind the antipathy to Sanders. Another is that the Dems have to go back to compromising on social issues in more conservative areas, the main ones being abortion and guns. The last is that the party needs to drop the sneering elitism you see oozing from the liberal intelligentsia that sees white Middle America as "a problem" to be neutralized rather than a demographic to be courted.

[Eric the Green]

(11-13-2016, 10:18 AM)Odin Wrote: The Democratic Party is stuck in a bubble. It's not just their tone-deafness in the presidential campaign, but also it's complete, utter lack of attention to state and local races.

The Dems have three huge problems right now. One is that they need to get out of the "every populist is McGovern 2.0" mentality that was behind the antipathy to Sanders. Another is that the Dems have to go back to compromising on social issues in more conservative areas, the main ones being abortion and guns. The last is that the party needs to drop the sneering elitism you see oozing from the liberal intelligentsia that sees white Middle America as "a problem" to be neutralized rather than a demographic to be courted.

Your first is correct. Your second is correct on abortion, but not on guns, since they have already compromised as far as they need to go on guns; which is quite a long ways. Your third is irrelevant since the Democratic Party does not sneer at Middle America. (you may accuse me of doing that, but I am not even a Democrat.) But it was not courted adequately in this election, according to some reports. Mostly, the Obama coalition did not turn out strongly enough for Hillary in places like Milwaukee. It hard to win with candidates who are not talented at campaigning, and have too-little charisma.

(IOW, they need to pay attention to my horoscope scores )

She didn't show the passionate concern for those working class people in the Rust Belt that Trump showed, even if he fooled them. They are natural Democrats but they slipped away.

[Anthony '58]

How about the Democrats stop trying to "make history" and start trying to win elections?

That is to say, no more "affirmative action" Presidential nominees.

Play it safe with either Bob Casey or Andrew Cuomo in 2020.

[gabrielle]

(11-14-2016, 09:50 AM)Anthony Wrote: How about the Democrats stop trying to "make history" and start trying to win elections?

That is to say, no more "affirmative action" Presidential nominees.

Play it safe with either Bob Casey or Andrew Cuomo in 2020.

Sexist crap.  There was nothing "affirmative action" about Hillary Clinton.  She was far more qualified and experienced than Donald Trump. 

The Democrats failed to understand the extent of the pathological hatred for HC in this country.  They will literally vote for anyone but her.

[playwrite]

(11-13-2016, 12:03 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Since playwrite seems to be getting especially viscious, I think now's the time to remind him and the other smug establishment Democrats that they LOST BIGLY.  That means you went wrong somewhere.  Think about it a little bit.  Maybe Shaun King can help you out with that.  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...-1.2866238

Besides, I don't know why you should be attacking Odin, considering he did exactly what you wanted--he "fell in line" and voted for Clinton in the general (at least I'm assuming he did, judging from his posts leading up to the election).  I did too.

I realize that this lost has caused a lot of hysteria on the Dem side, and it should, Trump will be doing considerable damage in the next four years to this country.  And perhaps it is cathartic for some Dems to lash out at other Dems.  But at some point, we all need to return to putting our thinking caps on and correctly focus our energies.  It was not a cakewalk for Progressives in the 1860s, and neither will this be.

When the absentee votes (CA has 4 million, NY around 2M, WA about a million, etc),  it is likely that Clinton will have exceeded Trump's national vote total by 3-5 million, or around 3-4%.   Moreover, Clinton's total may reach or even exceed the 66 million votes that Obama got in 2012, which would, you know, kind of destroy the notion that Clinton didn't get enough turnout. 

The long-term problem for Dems has always been those Dem votes are not spread out, for obvious reasons, in culturally backward Red states.  That is changing, however, with demographics, and that change is not going to stop - go walk around Austin or Atlanta or Memphis and I'm bet the proportion of glum Dems is no different than in NYC, LA or Denver.  If you peel away the 2012 Obama voters that voted 2016 Trump, Florida, North Carolina, Arizona, and possible even Texas and Georgia would be Blue today.  Now it is true, that voter suppression tactics will be getting a big boast over the next 4 years to starve off the demographics; fighting that, should be a high priority for not just everyone on the Left but those who consider themselves more moderate and Independent, I mean, at least the ones who are not hypocrites about what the Constitution actually was about. 

The bigger problem, of course, is the former 2012 Obama voters that went 2016 Trump, in particular, the traditional Dems in mid-West manufacturing states who are so desperate that they believe a billionaire from Manhattan is going to bring back their former high-paying jobs.  I'm not one who completely agrees with "you can't fix stupid;" I actually believe that otherwise fairly intelligent people who have chosen to do something really really stupid out of desperation and ignorance can come around to correcting their stupid choices once the consequences of those choices become highly evident.  I believe the GOP can't help themselves from really screwing these people over the next four years - the GOP simply can't keep themselves from screwing these people because that is a basic function derived from their organic reason for the GOP's existence. 

And that brings us to the biggest problem for coming back from this election - the Right wing megaphone that has no problem with lying or cheating to manipulate their traditional sheeple.  These sheeple are beyond help and not much if anything can be done with them except wait for them to die out as a political force.  The problem is there is still a lot of them and they can, and have, greatly influence those people (Obama/Trump supporters) who should know better but are desperate for answers that will help them.   The job here, over the next four years, is to constantly point out to them, example after example, of the GOP screwing them to the wall.  It's not going to be easy - the alt-Right isn't now just some websites spewing vile, it is now embedded in the US government.  

But what you are implying is also correct and needed - we have to come up with some answers for those Obama/Trump voters.  And yes, we need to fight it out on the Left on what that agenda is going to look like. But, we need to do it within the reality of what is really going on - our ultimate appeal to the MAJORITY of voters is reality.  And the reality is the world is an increasingly complex and difficult place for Americans, and that the Orange Anus telling you that it is Black and Brown people making it that way isn't going to be of much help.

p.s.  I didn't attack Odin on his voting pattern.  He first attacked me for suggesting that some on this forum with more extreme conservative viewpoints likely have brains that function differently than those who have more Progressive or moderate viewpoints.  He attempted to place my viewpoint on behavioral and brain functioning of the "conservative mind" on the same bigoted footing as racism or religious intolerance.  It is not.  It is derived from scientific studies on the matter.  If you or he have a difference of opinion on the validity or conclusions of such research, I'm more that willing to discuss those with you - just try to bring it up a notch or two above simplistic name-calling and like in Odin's case, do a little research before spouting off.

[playwrite]

(11-13-2016, 01:12 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 01:08 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 10:25 PM)gabrielle Wrote: If the blue states secede from the union it will leave progressive individuals and those from groups who would be victimized in Trump's America--blacks, latinos, Muslims, gays etc--in the dirt.  So yeah, thanks a lot.

It will be time for them to move to blue America.

Easier said than done more than likely...expenses and all that. Some people can not easily pack up and move for various reasons.

That before they get taxed in to oblivion for all of "free" shit they hope to receive.  I expect them to go the way of Venezuela in about the same amount of time Chavez and Maduro took to do the job.

Point of fact, most Blue states already put more into the federal government coffers than take out; exactly the opposite for Red states.  

We will welcome our Blue brothers and sisters from the backward Red states with open arms and with our programs likely make the most unfortunate ones productive members of society.

You can keep the ones that stand around with signs "Keep the government's socialist hands off my Medicare!"
When it gets bad enough for you all, we'll send you some foreign aid.

[playwrite]

(11-13-2016, 01:19 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 01:12 AM)Galen Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 01:08 AM)taramarie Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 10:25 PM)gabrielle Wrote: If the blue states secede from the union it will leave progressive individuals and those from groups who would be victimized in Trump's America--blacks, latinos, Muslims, gays etc--in the dirt.  So yeah, thanks a lot.

It will be time for them to move to blue America.

Easier said than done more than likely...expenses and all that. Some people can not easily pack up and move for various reasons.

That before they get taxed in to oblivion for all of "free" shit they hope to receive.  I expect them to go the way of Venezuela in about the same amount of time Chavez and Maduro took to do the job.

Here in NZ if you have a full time job you are able to support yourself while also enjoying universal healthcare. Yes it comes through taxes but it does not feel like it is a "taxed to death" environment. It is considered a human right. I have spoken to Canadians who also enjoy the same benefits and they have the same attitude about it. This is something I am very much in favour for. Many in America that I know do not have the expenses for essential medical procedures, surgeries, essential medicine. Because of the fact we are taxed for universal healthcare we in NZ are not denied life saving operations/medicine. So that is where I stand on that.

Now your sounding a little bit more testy than kumbaya.

I like that.

[playwrite]

(11-13-2016, 01:34 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate -- we can not consecrate -- we can not hallow -- this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us -- that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion -- that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom -- and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

Now you're talkin!

[playwrite]

(11-13-2016, 10:18 AM)Odin Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 12:03 AM)gabrielle Wrote: Since playwrite seems to be getting especially viscious, I think now's the time to remind him and the other smug establishment Democrats that they LOST BIGLY.  That means you went wrong somewhere.  Think about it a little bit.  Maybe Shaun King can help you out with that.  http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics...-1.2866238

Besides, I don't know why you should be attacking Odin, considering he did exactly what you wanted--he "fell in line" and voted for Clinton in the general (at least I'm assuming he did, judging from his posts leading up to the election).  I did too.

Quote:The Democratic Party is having an identity crisis. While the groundswell of grassroots support in its base is anti-police brutality, pro-environment, pro-immigrant, anti-war, pro-$15 minimum wage, for the legalization of marijuana, and strongly against the Dakota Access Pipeline — the party in general, and Hillary Clinton in particular, lack core convictions on all of these issues and it shows. I’d be that nearly every single activist and leader in each of those niche communities will tell you that they feel like strangers in the Democratic Party.

Although it already seems like ancient history, you must remember that the head of the Democratic National Committee, Debbie Wasserman Schultz, left in a shroud of scandal surrounding emails that were derogatory towards Bernie Sanders and only confirmed the anti-Bernie bias many of us knew existed for more than a year. Three other top officials from the DNC were fired for the very same thing.

Longtime Democratic operative, Donna Brazile, was brought in to replace Wasserman Schultz. It seemed like a smart move, but further email leaks have only showed us that she, too, was a part of the problem as she continually fed the Clinton campaign questions that Hillary would receive for debates during the primary. The move has all but eroded trust in her leadership from progressives who were already deeply skeptical of the party.

Before the Democratic primaries even began or any of the candidates had their first debate, Hillary Clinton and her team had already sowed up commitments from hundreds of career politicians to serve as her superdelegates — building her what often looked like an insurmountable lead. Even in states where Bernie Sanders beat Hillary Clinton by a landslide, party operatives routinely pledged their support to her anyway — all but ignoring the reality that Bernie was building the very type of populist movement that could have actually defeated Donald Trump.

As we now see, this election was not about high-skilled political operatives, polls or even national campaign experience. Trump had none of that. This campaign was about large crowds, big events, momentum, tone and social media. Bernie did those things well. Bernie was the anti-Trump. Trump lacks integrity. Bernie is known for his. Trump is a shady billionaire who has stiffed tons of everyday people. Bernie has spent his whole life fighting for working class folk. Trump is a liar and Bernie is known for his straight-to-the-point honesty.

Hillary Clinton was an absolutely terrible matchup for Donald Trump. I said as much in May when every poll that was released showed Bernie crushing Trump, but Hillary consistently struggling against him. Time and time and time again, polls showed Hillary struggling against Trump. Instead of taking the time to truly understand them, expert pundits and pollsters opted to repeatedly dismiss the validity or methodology of those polls. Clearly, polls like the LA Times/USC poll, which consistently showed Trump ahead, but was widely dismissed as junk science as a result, were on to something.

But that was the M.O. of the Democratic Party from the time the primaries began until we were all gobsmacked by a Trump victory — dismiss all evidence that says anything other than Hillary Clinton was inevitable. But here we are.

The Democratic Party can no longer ride the coattails of President Obama. The Democratic Party truly needs to start over from scratch and put people at its core. It clearly has no idea what it’s doing and has, as a result, put us all in danger.

The Democratic Party is stuck in a bubble. It's not just their tone-deafness in the presidential campaign, but also it's complete, utter lack of attention to state and local races.

The Dems have three huge problems right now. One is that they need to get out of the "every populist is McGovern 2.0" mentality that was behind the antipathy to Sanders. Another is that the Dems have to go back to compromising on social issues in more conservative areas, the main ones being abortion and guns. The last is that the party needs to drop the sneering elitism you see oozing from the liberal intelligentsia that sees white Middle America as "a problem" to be neutralized rather than a demographic to be courted.

Gee, so many needles to thread.

Do you really thing this was about guns?  What would be the life expectancy of the Dem Party if it dropped support to Roe v. Wade?  There are areas in the country where there's someone on the GOP to compromise with???  Where?  Antipathy to Sanders??? I thought he got a few votes in the primaries and he pushed Clinton further Left; further Left would have brought on Trump supporters???  Your sneering liberal intelligentsia elitists, do you prefer the non-intelligent ones?  Do you think the Dems can run a general without their money?

[playwrite]

(11-14-2016, 12:08 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(11-14-2016, 09:50 AM)Anthony Wrote: How about the Democrats stop trying to "make history" and start trying to win elections?

That is to say, no more "affirmative action" Presidential nominees.

Play it safe with either Bob Casey or Andrew Cuomo in 2020.

Sexist crap.  There was nothing "affirmative action" about Hillary Clinton.  She was far more qualified and experienced than Donald Trump. 

The Democrats failed to understand the extent of the pathological hatred for HC in this country.  They will literally vote for anyone but her.

Yep, it is hard for intelligent people to grasp Clinton Hatred Syndrome or the rantings of other mentally disturbed people.

[playwrite]

Back to topic.

I'm working back channels to get this "virtual secession" to spread.

I think this is particularly needed, and very useful, to counter Trump's most recent declaration to deport 3-4 million people.  We need those "sanctuary states."

If we can hinder the mass deportations in CA and other Blue states, Trump's need to appease the Alt-Right with actual horrific results will have him doubling down on deportations in the Red states.  From an economic standpoint, the effect would be magnified by the fear of communities subject to the coming storm troupers.  The impact on Florida, Texas, Arizona and a couple of other states' (perhaps NC and GA) agriculture, construction and hospitality industries would likely be massive enough destruction to kill off the economies in those states.  While the national economy would hasten into a retraction, the Blue states would likely not be impacted or emerge quickly with considerable competitive advantages.

Trump would be in a bind of not having done enough for the Alt-Right, but at the same time created countless stories of hardships and cruelty on TV and the Internet in the middle of an increasingly bad recession. Moreover, the impacts would be on everyone but with clear greater impacts in Trump states (including the new Reds in the MidWest that are always more susceptible to recessions and suffer more).

[Eric the Green]

(11-14-2016, 03:02 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 10:18 AM)Odin Wrote: The Democratic Party is stuck in a bubble. It's not just their tone-deafness in the presidential campaign, but also it's complete, utter lack of attention to state and local races.

The Dems have three huge problems right now. One is that they need to get out of the "every populist is McGovern 2.0" mentality that was behind the antipathy to Sanders. Another is that the Dems have to go back to compromising on social issues in more conservative areas, the main ones being abortion and guns. The last is that the party needs to drop the sneering elitism you see oozing from the liberal intelligentsia that sees white Middle America as "a problem" to be neutralized rather than a demographic to be courted.

You're 100% correct. In addition to this, although they apparently don't realize it, the GOP needs to undergo its own reckoning. The supposed win (which was really the culmination of an ultimately destructive Alt-Right putsch) last week has blinded many GOPers to their own death spiral.

No he's not 100% correct. I already corrected him:

Your first is correct. Your second is correct on abortion, but not on guns, since they have already compromised as far as they need to go on guns; which is quite a long ways. Your third is irrelevant since the Democratic Party does not sneer at Middle America. (you may accuse me of doing that, but I am not even a Democrat.) But it was not courted adequately in this election, according to some reports. Mostly, the Obama coalition did not turn out strongly enough for Hillary in places like Milwaukee. It's hard to win with candidates who are not talented at campaigning, and have too-little charisma. 

(IOW, they need to pay attention to my horoscope scores  )

She didn't show the passionate concern for those working class people in the Rust Belt that Trump showed, even if he fooled them. They are natural Democrats but they slipped away.

Didn't you hear Hillary's statements on guns at the debate? Very tepid and moderate already.

[Eric the Green]

(11-14-2016, 02:59 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 01:50 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: If CA secedes, what are the chances that Lincoln Trump will sum up his effort to crush us so eloquently?

I sincerely hope it does not come to that. Neither the Union nor Confederacy had WMD. Both the Red and Blue zones respectively possess such.

I don't know what difference that makes, unless the two sides propose to use them on each other. I guess I wouldn't put it past the Republicans though. I wouldn't put ANYTHING past those bastards. Maybe CA needs to make sure we have nuclear weapons to defend ourselves and deter aggression by Reaganoid Trumpland against us. Every nation has an incentive to go nuclear to defend itself against possible American attack. It's an excellent deterrent against American aggression.

But CA needs to go its own way, and fund it's own government. It's going to be expensive, but rich Californians can afford it. If Trump does not let us, we'll have to resist, and this may lead to secession.

CA needs it's own single-payer health plan, and its own EPA. It has legalized marijuana, which the Republicans may block. It has imposed stricter gun control, and may impose even more. Trump has promised to cut off funds to sanctuary cities. We're going to restrict fossil fuels and build alternative energy, despite Trump's efforts to make America "great" again by cooking the planet. We may need to refuse to pay taxes to the Feds, and refuse to send soldiers to Trump's revenge wars and potential wars on behalf of the SCO. We'll see, but CA must push left while the nation slips right.

We need to face the fact that red and purple America is not going to progress. Its people are easily conned by Reaganist trickle-down economics promises. They still believe tax cuts will make America great again. A "movement" can win against all indications and odds, if it is a right-wing movement. A left-wing movement like Sanders' could not win. It is so absurd, that nothing but absurd ideas can any longer be entertained about America.

[Eric the Green]

(11-14-2016, 02:54 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(11-13-2016, 12:59 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(11-12-2016, 10:25 PM)gabrielle Wrote: If the blue states secede from the union it will leave progressive individuals and those from groups who would be victimized in Trump's America--blacks, latinos, Muslims, gays etc--in the dirt.  So yeah, thanks a lot.

It will be time for them to move to blue America.

Some people can barely afford to move across town let alone from one region to another.

But they've been doin' it now for decades in the USA. If Syrians and Ethiopians and such can "afford" to move across continents, 1st-world Americans can travel on an interstate highway. Did you think the OKies could afford to come in the thirties? They came anyway.

[Eric the Green]

‘Calexit’ Movement Calls for California to Secede; Members Say Trump Win Helps Efforts
POSTED 8:16 AM, NOVEMBER 10, 2016, BY TRIBUNE MEDIA WIRE AND MELISSA PAMER, UPDATED AT 12:38PM, NOVEMBER 10, 2016
http://ktla.com/2016/11/10/calexit-movem...s-efforts/

Interest in pushing for California's secession from the United States has increased since Donald Trump won the presidency, with the effort becoming known as "Calexit."

The "Yes California" campaign is backing an independence referendum in support of a constitutional exit of the state from the United States.

Trump won just 33.2 percent of votes in California, compared to Hillary Clinton's 61.5 percent.

The day after the election, Yes California supporters held a daylong "meet and greet" in front of the state Capitol building in Sacramento. The event was planned well before Election Day.

"As the sixth largest economy in the world, California is more economically powerful than France and has a population larger than Poland. Point-by-point, California compares and competes with countries, not just the 49 other states," the campaign's website reads.

The "Calexit" name stems from the successful "Brexit" campaign for Britain to leave the European Union.

Interest in the effort has soared since Tuesday, campaign spokesman Marcus Ruiz Evans told KTLA sister station KTXL in Sacramento.

"It's game-changing," Evans said.

In 24 hours, the group's membership grew from 3,000 to nearly 5,000, he said Wednesday evening.

"The relationship between California and the federal system just isn't working," Evans told the Los Angeles Times.

While the Yes California campaign has been considered a fringe movement in the past, it began trending on social media Tuesday night, attracting mainstream notice and interest from California progressives dismayed by Trump's impending win.

The leaders of California's Assembly and Senate, both Democrats, issued a joint statement Wednesday morning that was widely shared.

The statement from Senate President pro Tempore Kevin de León and Assembly Speaker Anthony Rendon began:

Today, we woke up feeling like strangers in a foreign land, because yesterday Americans expressed their views on a pluralistic and democratic society that are clearly inconsistent with the values of the people of California.

We have never been more proud to be Californians.

By a margin in the millions, Californians overwhelmingly rejected politics fueled by resentment, bigotry, and misogyny.

The largest state of the union and the strongest driver of our nation’s economy has shown it has its surest conscience as well.

The legislative leaders, of course, have not expressed support for secession.

"California was not a part of this nation when its history began, but we are clearly now the keeper of its future," the statement concluded.

Meanwhile, the implausibility of actual secession apparently hasn't dissuaded those frightened by the prospect of Trump running the federal executive branch.

California's exit from the union would require approval of two-thirds of legislators in both the U.S. House of Representative and the Senate, as well as support from at least 38 state legislatures, according to the New York Times.

There have been at least 200 failed proposals for the state to secede since it joined the U.S. in 1850, the newspaper reported.

The rising interest in Calexit comes as protests have erupted across the U.S.

On Wednesday night, thousands gathered in at least a dozen major U.S. cities. In Los Angeles, protesters chanted "¡Si se puede!" in the streets of downtown.

The refrain "not my president" rang out from angry crowds in L.A., San Francisco and elsewhere.

Police estimated thousands of people stood outside New York City's Trump Tower protesting the president-elect's positions on immigration and law enforcement.

"I came out here to let go of a lot of fear that was sparked as soon as I saw the results," protester Nick Powers said.

Calexit protesters in Sacramento, meanwhile, held blue signs that said "California Is a Nation Not a State."

The group's protesters joined with thousands of others in Sacramento who were focused on protesting the Trump presidency.

Protests continued Thursday, with students walking out at many schools in California and elsewhere.

Protesters now marching up and down the sidewalk in front of the Capitol chanting "What do we want? Cal-exit! When do we want it? Now!" pic.twitter.com/ACN5RD3iHG

— Sophia Bollag (@SophiaBollag) November 10, 2016

My note: no-one claims Calexit would be "legal" according to (in our eyes) the illegitimate US government.

Then again, who knows? Maybe Middle Americans would be glad to see us go.

NOTE: that's now 61.6% to 32.9%, with only 70% of the vote in acc. to CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com/elections/2016/election-center/

[Odin]

(11-14-2016, 12:17 PM)playwrite Wrote: p.s.  I didn't attack Odin on his voting pattern.  He first attacked me for suggesting that some on this forum with more extreme conservative viewpoints likely have brains that function differently than those who have more Progressive or moderate viewpoints.  He attempted to place my viewpoint on behavioral and brain functioning of the "conservative mind" on the same bigoted footing as racism or religious intolerance.  It is not.  It is derived from scientific studies on the matter.  If you or he have a difference of opinion on the validity or conclusions of such research, I'm more that willing to discuss those with you - just try to bring it up a notch or two above simplistic name-calling and like in Odin's case, do a little research before spouting off.

"Science" from a study that IIRC was widely considered flawed. You just jumped on to it as The Truth because it reinforced your own bigotry against people who don't agree with you.

PS: people who call other people "sheeple" are almost always assholes.

[Eric the Green]

Maybe some support for both Playwrite and Odin in this report?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/mil...nd-in-hand

Is this study refuted?

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/27...37796.html

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/a...acist.html

[Bronsin]

I vote YES for a Calexit too! Go on and GTFO LOL.

That new countries economy would collapse within days once they figured out that all the money they get right now in Fed assistance would be cut off. That all the power they get from Hoover Dam would just double in cost. All the improvements to roads and welfare would be gone. Once they had to be fully sustainable financially, and figured out that illegals don't pay taxes, they won't have any money to operate on. Commiefornia is nothing more than a big welfare state, and will stay that way as long as liberals are in charge of it.

Democrats always view their future in reference to dreams instead of reality.