The Maelstrom of Violence

[Eric the Green]

(08-14-2017, 05:37 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Another charming (sarcasm intended) image:

McAuliffe calls you UN-American. (assuming of course that the guy is actually one of the "deplorables" who might have shown up in Charlottesville)

[Warren Dew]

(08-14-2017, 01:13 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Americans, prepare yourselves for the worst time in your history. Do not compromise with evil even if it has an American flag attached. And yes, that means you, Warren.

People waving Confederate flags in WWII did not bring back slavery.  People waving WWII German flags are not going to bring back Hitler.

I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  When I see you spending as much time criticizing Antifa as you do white nationalist demonstrators, I'll know we can start worrying about the white nationalists.  Until then, I'll concentrate on the greater threat.

Quote:What would Jesus do? In Nazi Germany He would have been packed away in a cattle car to be gassed in some fake shower.

I'm an atheist; why would I worry about what Jesus would do?

[gabrielle]

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  

And others are worried that the white supremacists have a direct connection to Donald Trump. (The fact that he has been known to re-tweet Neo Nazis and his own father was once arrested at a KKK rally doesn't help.  And that he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to condemn them specifically after this last atrocity.)

No, I'm more afraid of the white supremacists, because you know, they're racists.  

Just listen to what they have to say for themselves:

[noway2]

(08-15-2017, 08:44 AM)gabrielle Wrote: No, I'm more afraid of the white supremacists, because you know, they're racists.  

And the BLM / Antifa savages aren't? I agree with Warren Dew, they're the bigger threat. They're the ones that are getting violent and they're doing a great job of turning a lot of people against their cause, at least down in this part of the Southeast where I have started seeing calls to start tearing down MLK monuments and street signs. While the majority of the people may not be mustering the militia and taking the fight to them, many of them are preparing for a perceived coming civil war while praying for a balkanization and break up of the country.

The rise of white nationalism is nothing more than a response to the perpetual, never ending howls of "institutionalized racism" and the bogus excuse that whitey is keeping the black man down. There's a running joke around these parts that the reason you don't see "us" out there protesting is that "we" have to get up in the morning and go to work, unlike those "protesters" that sit on their asses with their hands out waiting to get bussed in to some protest du jour.

[Warren Dew]

(08-15-2017, 08:44 AM)gabrielle Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  

And others are worried that the white supremacists have a direct connection to Donald Trump. (The fact that he has been known to re-tweet Neo Nazis and his own father was once arrested at a KKK rally doesn't help.  And that he had to be dragged kicking and screaming to condemn them specifically after this last atrocity.)

It's extremely unlikely that they have a direct connection to Donald Trump.  Unlike, say, Black Lives Matter, whose events always occurred at times convenient to Obama and to the Clinton campaign, the timing of these events is often quite inconvenient for Trump.

Quote:No, I'm more afraid of the white supremacists, because you know, they're racists. 

Both sides are racist, so that's not a differentiating factor.

[noway2]

(08-15-2017, 02:36 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Yeah, BLM and Antifa are Kremlin bootlickers, supported by GRU/Spetsnaz, anti American scum ...

ooops ... wait ... they are not.

Well, I happen to think they are scum, based upon their behavior and actions but saying they are Kremlin bootlickers or supported by the GRU / Spetsnaz is giving them too much credit. I don't think they really understand the communism / socialism that they claim they want.

[Ragnarök_62]

(08-15-2017, 02:36 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 11:14 AM)noway2 Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 08:44 AM)gabrielle Wrote: No, I'm more afraid of the white supremacists, because you know, they're racists.  

And the BLM / Antifa savages aren't?  I agree with Warren Dew, they're the bigger threat.  They're the ones that are getting violent and they're doing a great job of turning a lot of people against their cause, at least down in this part of the Southeast where I have started seeing calls to start tearing down MLK monuments and street signs.  While the majority of the people may not be mustering the militia and taking the fight to them, many of them are preparing for a perceived coming civil war while praying for a balkanization and break up of the country.

The rise of white nationalism is nothing more than a response to the perpetual, never ending howls of "institutionalized racism" and the bogus excuse that whitey is keeping the black man down. There's a running joke around these parts that the reason you don't see "us" out there protesting is that "we" have to get up in the morning and go to work, unlike those "protesters" that sit on their asses with their hands out waiting to get bussed in to some protest du jour.

Yeah, BLM and Antifa are Kremlin bootlickers, supported by GRU/Spetsnaz, anti American scum ...

ooops ... wait ... they are not.

So what?  Any and all groups who advocate violence should be subject to the MIC's spying so evidence can be collected for the purposes of assigning any group as a terrorist organization.

terrorism definition Wrote:The unlawful use or threatened use of force or violence by a person or an organized group against people or property with the intention of intimidating or coercing societies or governments, often for ideological or political reasons.

Sorry, if a group of any sort walks like a terrorist organization, advocates violence to further a political agenda like a terrorist organization, and performs actual acts of violence like a terrorist organization then it is a fucking terrorist organization.

And those Antifa clowns are a bunch of worthless Stalinists.  Stupid fucks calling their buddies "comrades".
Yeah, if BLM does this shit also, it high fucking time to cuff 'em and stuff 'em. And since the MSM has droned on and on about right wing terrorists groups, I can just defer to them to out that stuff.  I'm out to bring balance to the meme that leaves out other groups.

[David Horn]

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  When I see you spending as much time criticizing Antifa as you do white nationalist demonstrators, I'll know we can start worrying about the white nationalists.  Until then, I'll concentrate on the greater threat.

As far as I can tell, Antifa is a consortium of privileged children doing penance,  SJW types from college campuses and simple joiners looking for a rush.  I fail to see any evidence of "a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power". Enlighten us ... please.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-15-2017, 05:09 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  When I see you spending as much time criticizing Antifa as you do white nationalist demonstrators, I'll know we can start worrying about the white nationalists.  Until then, I'll concentrate on the greater threat.

As far as I can tell, Antifa is a consortium of privileged children doing penance,  SJW types from college campuses and simple joiners looking for a rush.  I fail to see any evidence of "a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power". Enlighten us ... please.

I am reminded of the Nixon White House delusions.  They sincerely believed that the Democratic Party, SDS and similar organizations were being sponsored and run by the Soviets.  The possibility of sincere disagreement with Republican policy was dismissed by their level of paranoia.  Between the habit of Jim Crow and purported wisdom of the domino theory, they let go of reality, embraced partisanship, and trampled on the law and Constitution.  Misplaced common sense and tradition can lead one quite far astray.

I'm used to strawmen here on these forums.  Extreme partisans of any flavor will attribute false motivations to any that disagree with them.  That's what this smells like.  Some will make up lies, and partisans of the correct ilk are disposed to believe it.  The lies get repeated as if truth.

I'm not inclined to believe the worst even of the racist element.  A lot of their ilk could be wearing swastika because it makes their elders over react, not because they really want to push minority folk into cattle cars heading for gas chambers.  Some people just like attention, violence and belonging.  Some will adapt beliefs to get these things.  Alas there are lone nuts and patriotic believers mixed in who take it beyond games.

At this same time, sensationalist and partisan elements of the media are willing to blow everything way out of proportion.

One should take the views of extreme partisans here with many a grain of salt.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-15-2017, 04:53 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: The Russian Icebreaker, not to be confused with Arctic tourism enablement, is a means of loosening up the impediments to the conquest of The West. Let the West destroy itself from within for a  while. Make some key friends among certain factions. Then, swoop in for the kill.

Stalin was actually quite successful at it. Sure, he did not conquer all of The West. But he did manage to grab half of Europe.

That was the test run.

There are other perspectives.  Russia saw the invasions of Genghis Khan, Napoleon and Hitler, perhaps Cynic Hero's big three.  Sure, Russia was too big, Russia was too cold, and there were too damn many of them.  General Winter is excellent at defense.  Still, the notion that the world is out to get Russia is understandable, perhaps because the world has been out to get Russia.

From some accounts, Stalin was quite fearful in the early days of Barbarossa.  In many ways the Soviet World War II actions are ever so understandable.  Churchill and Roosevelt actually went out of their way to make sure Stalin remained in the war, did not make a separate peace.  Alas, autocratic government remains problematic.  I'm no Stalin fan, but you haven't got him right here.

[gabrielle]

(08-15-2017, 05:59 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm not inclined to believe the worst even of the racist element.  A lot of their ilk could be wearing swastika because it makes their elders over react, not because they really want to push minority folk into cattle cars heading for gas chambers.  Some people just like attention, violence and belonging.  Some will adapt beliefs to get these things.  Alas there are lone nuts and patriotic believers mixed in who take it beyond games.

At this same time, sensationalist and partisan elements of the media are willing to blow everything way out of proportion.

I know, lamestream media is always blowing everything out of proportion.  I mean, who hasn't donned a swastika and terrorized some black clergymen in a bit of youthful folly?

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-15-2017, 11:45 PM)gabrielle Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 05:59 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I'm not inclined to believe the worst even of the racist element.  A lot of their ilk could be wearing swastika because it makes their elders over react, not because they really want to push minority folk into cattle cars heading for gas chambers.  Some people just like attention, violence and belonging.  Some will adapt beliefs to get these things.  Alas there are lone nuts and patriotic believers mixed in who take it beyond games.

At this same time, sensationalist and partisan elements of the media are willing to blow everything way out of proportion.

I know, lamestream media is always blowing everything out of proportion.  I mean, who hasn't donned a swastika and terrorized some black clergymen in a bit of youthful folly?

Hmm...  I grew up in the awakening.  There was a good deal of youthful folly back them.  I'm assuming youngsters, and the press, haven't changed that much.

But by all means, grab a sign join, a group and march around if it turns you on.  I'd be curious to find out why or why not.

[Bob Butler 54]

(08-15-2017, 06:34 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 06:18 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 04:53 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: The Russian Icebreaker, not to be confused with Arctic tourism enablement, is a means of loosening up the impediments to the conquest of The West. Let the West destroy itself from within for a  while. Make some key friends among certain factions. Then, swoop in for the kill.

Stalin was actually quite successful at it. Sure, he did not conquer all of The West. But he did manage to grab half of Europe.

That was the test run.

There are other perspectives.  Russia saw the invasions of Genghis Khan, Napoleon and Hitler, perhaps Cynic Hero's big three.  Sure, Russia was too big, Russia was too cold, and there were too damn many of them.  General Winter is excellent at defense.  Still, the notion that the world is out to get Russia is understandable, perhaps because the world has been out to get Russia.

From some accounts, Stalin was quite fearful in the early days of Barbarossa.  In many ways the Soviet World War II actions are ever so understandable.  Churchill and Roosevelt actually went out of their way to make sure Stalin remained in the war, did not make a separate peace.  Alas, autocratic government remains problematic.  I'm no Stalin fan, but you haven't got him right here.

I suggest you read "Icebreaker" by Rezun.

I went so far as to read some very very mixed reviews.  I gather it is partisan, slanted, and dubious.  I suspect it can convince those ready enough to be convinced...

[pbrower2a]

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(08-14-2017, 01:13 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Americans, prepare yourselves for the worst time in your history. Do not compromise with evil even if it has an American flag attached. And yes, that means you, Warren.

People waving Confederate flags in WWII did not bring back slavery.  People waving WWII German flags are not going to bring back Hitler.

I am surprised that you do not have a problem with admirers of the Confederacy aligning themselves with Nazis.

Quote:I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  When I see you spending as much time criticizing Antifa as you do white nationalist demonstrators, I'll know we can start worrying about the white nationalists.  Until then, I'll concentrate on the greater threat.

When someone from Antifa drives his car into a crowd of right-wingers in a peaceful demonstration, then let me know.

[Warren Dew]

(08-15-2017, 05:09 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  When I see you spending as much time criticizing Antifa as you do white nationalist demonstrators, I'll know we can start worrying about the white nationalists.  Until then, I'll concentrate on the greater threat.

As far as I can tell, Antifa is a consortium of privileged children doing penance,  SJW types from college campuses and simple joiners looking for a rush.  I fail to see any evidence of "a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power". Enlighten us ... please.

http://dailycaller.com/2017/02/03/look-w...ley-event/

[gabrielle]

Black Lives Matter Is Not a Hate Group

This is about a year old, but I don't believe there's been any major change in the direction of BLM since then.

Quote:Each year, the Southern Poverty Law Center, of which I am the president, compiles and publishes a census of domestic hate groups. 

Our list, which is cited extensively by journalists, academics and government officials alike, provides an important barometer—not the only one, of course—to help us understand the state of hate and extremism in America.

In recent weeks, we’ve received a number of requests to name Black Lives Matter a hate group, particularly in the wake of the murders of eight police officers in Dallas and Baton Rouge. Numerous conservative commentators have joined the chorus. There is even a Change.org petition calling for the hate group label.

In our view, these critics fundamentally misunderstand the nature of hate groups and the BLM movement.

Generally speaking, hate groups are, by our definition, those that vilify entire groups of people based on immutable characteristics such as race or ethnicity. Federal law takes a similar approach.

While it’s no surprise, given our country’s history, that most domestic hate groups hold white supremacist views, there are a number of black organizations on our hate group list as well.

A prime example is the New Black Panther Party (NBPP), whose leaders are known for anti-Semitic and anti-white tirades. Its late chairman, Khalid Abdul Muhammad, famously remarked, “There are no good crackers, and if you find one, kill him before he changes.” Bobby Seale, a founding member of the original Black Panther Party, has called the NBPP a “black racist hate group.”

We have heard nothing remotely comparable to the NBPP’s bigotry from the founders and most prominent leaders of the Black Lives Matter movement and nothing at all to suggest that the bulk of the demonstrators hold supremacist or black separatist views.

Thousands of white people across America – indeed, people of all races – have marched in solidarity with African Americans during BLM marches, as is clear from the group’s website. The movement’s leaders also have condemned violence.

There’s no doubt that some protesters who claim the mantle of Black Lives Matter have said offensive things, like the chant “pigs in a blanket, fry ‘em like bacon” that was heard at one rally. But before we condemn the entire movement for the words of a few, we should ask ourselves whether we would also condemn the entire Republican Party for the racist words of its presumptive nominee – or for the racist rhetoric of many other politicians in the party over the course of years.   
 
Many of its harshest critics claim that Black Lives Matter’s very name is anti-white, hence the oft-repeated rejoinder “all lives matter.” This notion misses the point entirely. Black lives matter because they have been marginalized throughout our country’s history and because white lives have always mattered more in our society. As BLM puts it, the movement stands for “the simple proposition that ‘black lives also matter.’”

The backlash to BLM, in some ways, reflects a broad sense of unease among white people who worry about the cultural changes in the country and feel they are falling behind in a country that is rapidly growing more diverse in a globalizing world. We consistently see this phenomenon in surveys showing that large numbers of white people believe racial discrimination against them is as pervasive, or more so, than it is against African Americans.

It’s the same dynamic that researchers at Harvard Business School described in a recent study: White people tend to see racism as a zero-sum game, meaning that gains for African Americans come at their expense. Black people see it differently. From their point of view, the rights pie can get bigger for everyone.

Black Lives Matter is not a hate group. But the perception that it is racist illustrates the problem. Our society as a whole still does not accept that racial injustice remains pervasive. And, unfortunately, the fact that white people tend to see race as a zero-sum game may actually impede progress.

[beechnut79]

On the old forum I had posed the question of what event might be a trigger for this 4T as Harper's Ferry was to the Civil War 4T. Could the events in Charlottesville this past weekend be the one? After all, they both occurred within the same state.

[Warren Dew]

(08-16-2017, 02:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 02:07 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(08-14-2017, 01:13 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Americans, prepare yourselves for the worst time in your history. Do not compromise with evil even if it has an American flag attached. And yes, that means you, Warren.

People waving Confederate flags in WWII did not bring back slavery.  People waving WWII German flags are not going to bring back Hitler.

I am surprised that you do not have a problem with admirers of the Confederacy aligning themselves with Nazis.

Who would you expect them to align with?  They're both justifiably lost causes.

Quote:

Quote:I'm far more worried about Antifa, as they have a direct connection to a group of elites ready to take power.  When I see you spending as much time criticizing Antifa as you do white nationalist demonstrators, I'll know we can start worrying about the white nationalists.  Until then, I'll concentrate on the greater threat.

When someone from Antifa drives his car into a crowd of right-wingers in a peaceful demonstration, then let me know.

How about when they kill several policement trying to assassinate a congressman?

[Kinser79]

(08-14-2017, 10:22 AM)gabrielle Wrote:

(08-13-2017, 06:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: I don't know if I should consider it a compliment that you agreed while completely missing the point.  My point was by yelling Nazi at everyone who is slightly to the right of center, those on the right have nothing to lose by going full Nazi.  The tactic that what passes for a Left is using is not one of rational discourse, rather, it is one of shutting down all discourse, especially with those most likely to desire discourse.

What about the "feminiazis?"

I do not approve of third-wave feminism but I have refrained from using that particular epithet to describe them, and discourage it in others.

[Kinser79]

(08-15-2017, 02:42 PM)noway2 Wrote:

(08-15-2017, 02:36 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote: Yeah, BLM and Antifa are Kremlin bootlickers, supported by GRU/Spetsnaz, anti American scum ...

ooops ... wait ... they are not.

Well, I happen to think they are scum, based upon their behavior and actions but saying they are Kremlin bootlickers or supported by the GRU / Spetsnaz is giving them too much credit.  I don't think they really understand the communism / socialism that they claim they want.

They don't.  As I pointed out earlier in this thread groups like Antifa are used my M-L parties and groups as useful idiots to be disposed of as soon as they are not useful.  Indeed when I was still a Marxist I had a comrade complain to me about the actions of some antifa groups in his locality.  I told him to indulge them for now because after they revolution they are the first to the Gulag.

As for Alphabet's statement...well everyone is a Russian agent to him.  I know because I was told this by local Wal-Mart greeter who is an FSB agent and has a direct line to President Putin.