The Maelstrom of Violence

[Eric the Green]

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

When Americans of the red-state mentality can stop making welfare into a bugaboo and scapegoat, and thus their basis for voting, and realize it is just part of a workable society, now needed more than ever in this age of computer automation and globalization, then they will have become more mature and more like grown up adults.

[pbrower2a]

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

The last paying job that I had was as a substitute school teacher -- so I know how rough poverty can be on students.

If you are talking about a low-paying job in retail, as in a convenience store -- such would really radicalize me.

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-20-2017, 11:57 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote: I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

When Americans of the red-state mentality can stop making welfare into a bugaboo and scapegoat, and thus their basis for voting, and realize it is just part of a workable society, now needed more than ever in this age of computer automation and globalization, then they will have become more mature and more like grown up adults.

I should likely just stand back and let you two prove the point.

I can agree that people who have been subjected to a lifetime of propaganda need more than one exposure to new ideas, but it isn't just the red-state (or blue-state) that features a propaganda system that leaves one values locked.  For many, it takes a lot more than a few exposures to get an open mind.  (I assume you two have lost count?)  To a large degree, you are saying the same thing about each other, and it is greatly true.  The problem is real, and nobody has a wide enough vision and large enough group resolve to solve it.

As to the immediate problem, welfare can do only so much when the minimum wage prevents a living wage.  I'd like to see welfare as an emergency measure to hold somebody over a troubled time once, but it is being turned into a way of life by a system that promotes more profits for the already wealthy.  These are parts of the same problem.  Of course, it is easy for the already wealthy to claim it isn't their problem.

And that leads back to a political system where those who can buy the best lawyers, lobbyists, media people and politicians make the rules.  That will take a lot of people getting angry to fix.  The questions include how many, how soon, and how angry.

We shall now return to our abstract philosophical discussion of maybe True Believers needing to see the key problem as more important than the value of human life.

[pbrower2a]

(09-20-2017, 02:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I can agree that people who have been subjected to a lifetime of propaganda need more than one exposure to new ideas, but it isn't just the red-state (or blue-state) that features a propaganda system that leaves one values locked.  For many, it takes a lot more than a few exposures to get an open mind.  (I assume you two have lost count?)  To a large degree, you are saying the same thing about each other, and it is greatly true.  The problem is real, and nobody has a wide enough vision and large enough group resolve to solve it.

But people in central and southeastern Europe generally did not need long to reject Marxism-Leninism, a system that inundates people with propaganda.

Quote:As to the immediate problem, welfare can do only so much when the minimum wage prevents a living wage.  I'd like to see welfare as an emergency measure to hold somebody over a troubled time once, but it is being turned into a way of life by a system that promotes more profits for the already wealthy.  These are parts of the same problem.  Of course, it is easy for the already wealthy to claim it isn't their problem.

The gig economy ensures that people will go from ill-paid work to poverty and back to ill-paid work frequently. Steady employment is no longer an objective of our economic order. Going from one sort of work to another (let us say from resort work to agricultural work to construction) is possible, but the sort of person who can do that would be a highly-desirable long-term employee in many places due to flexibility of abilities and of physical fitness. If there were steady work.

Quote:And that leads back to a political system where those who can buy the best lawyers, lobbyists, media people and politicians make the rules.  That will take a lot of people getting angry to fix.  The questions include how many, how soon, and how angry.

Donald Trump found the anger, but he had no viable solutions.

I will say this of the "red" states of the South: they have swung from conservative epochs to populist epochs in the past, and without obvious indications of doing so. Is anyone certain that the "New South" that gave America such types as Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Edwards will not return?

Quote:We shall now return to our abstract philosophical discussion of maybe True Believers needing to see the key problem as more important than the value of human life.

Let us remember that the best defense against the fanatic is the principle that human life is precious even if it has obvious differences  such as hooked noses, an epicanthic fold, or above-average melanin content. Or that it has a different theology. To Hell with Stalinists, Nazis, and ISIS!

[David Horn]

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

That's rich!  For someone to accuse another of being close-minded, you should be bit open-minded yourself.  Yet you continue to peddle supply side economics, especially growth-through-tax-cuts, as axiomatic, when there is no evidence to support it.  More to the point, it's been a dismal failure every time it's been tried.  I cited Kansas and the counter experience of California, and you claimed California was going broke.  Never mind the dynamism of the California economy, apparently the Kansas example was even too much for you to defend.  Have you had a change of heart?

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-20-2017, 03:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 02:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I can agree that people who have been subjected to a lifetime of propaganda need more than one exposure to new ideas, but it isn't just the red-state (or blue-state) that features a propaganda system that leaves one values locked.  For many, it takes a lot more than a few exposures to get an open mind.  (I assume you two have lost count?)  To a large degree, you are saying the same thing about each other, and it is greatly true.  The problem is real, and nobody has a wide enough vision and large enough group resolve to solve it.

But people in central and southeastern Europe generally did not need long to reject Marxism-Leninism, a system that inundates people with propaganda.

I’d like to have a thing to watch for that lets one pick out groups like the Stalinists, NSGHP, ISIS or other clearly dark True Believers.  It is easy to note that the dark True Believers aren’t the only ones lacking a open mind or a theory on how things work.  We can go around in tight circles.

What are significant about the people of central and southeastern Europe?  They have the Catholic background?  That’s as elaborate an indoctrinate system roughly as the Stalinists.  There are complementary political systems to go with it.  Or can the critical difference be found in the spiral of violence.  Were they just close enough to a solution that the idea of being violent is more necessary that the value of life did not go critical?  There is also not that much ground between central Europe and the territory of NSGHP and the Stalinists.  There is also a gap between populations that contain a large number of True Believers, enough to dominate politics, and a population truly sharing the perspective.

I also never got another answer.  What is the politically correct way of referring to the NSGHP?  That seems a bit obscure, but it seems some of conservatives are crazy into political correctness and get upset by perceived insults.  I wouldn’t want to hurt people’s feelings.  The NSGHP are so sensitive, you know.  

(09-20-2017, 03:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 02:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: And that leads back to a political system where those who can buy the best lawyers, lobbyists, media people and politicians make the rules.  That will take a lot of people getting angry to fix.  The questions include how many, how soon, and how angry.

Donald Trump found the anger, but he had no viable solutions.

Decent evaluation.  One of the few positive things about the Trump phenomena is how angry the Republican base is getting and how badly their protest candidate is failing.  The Democrats also failed with their establishment.  We might be ready for a true shift.

(09-20-2017, 03:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: I will say this of the "red" states of the South: they have swung from conservative epochs to populist epochs in the past, and without obvious indications of doing so. Is anyone certain that the "New South" that gave America such types as Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and John Edwards will not return?  

Interesting point.

(09-20-2017, 03:29 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 02:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: We shall now return to our abstract philosophical discussion of maybe True Believers needing to see the key problem as more important than the value of human life.

Let us remember that the best defense against the fanatic is the principle that human life is precious even if it has obvious differences  such as hooked noses, an epicanthic fold, or above-average melanin content. Or that it has a different theology. To Hell with Stalinists, Nazis, and ISIS!

Watch out.  Conservatives are so politically correct, and we wouldn't want to hurt any feelings.    Otherwise, good point...  I hope.  I sometimes wonder.

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-20-2017, 04:49 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

That's rich!  For someone to accuse another of being close-minded, you should be bit open-minded yourself.  Yet you continue to peddle supply side economics, especially growth-through-tax-cuts, as axiomatic, when there is no evidence to support it.  More to the point, it's been a dismal failure every time it's been tried.  I cited Kansas and the counter experience of California, and you claimed California was going broke.  Never mind the dynamism of the California economy, apparently the Kansas example was even too much for you to defend.  Have you had a change of heart?

I wouldn't count on that last.  He hasn't had enough exposures.

[Ragnarök_62]

(09-18-2017, 10:22 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Rags wrote: "Where's the denunciation of Antifa's black/red flags and other symbols?  They may as well be adorned with swastikas."

Hmm, I thought Mr. Rags liked black and red. And very loud bllasts of red and black sound assaulting you. Hmmmmm

Yes, that is an inconvenient truth. I'm stuck though since I can't get a copyright on color combinations. "Black widow pattern" isn't patentable either since it already exists in nature.

Very loud blasts:  Oh yeah, those bullhorns.  Antifa for some reason can't rap into their bullhorns.

[pbrower2a]

I have plenty of sobriquets for Nazis, and four have something to do with the Evil One.

The definitive White Devils.
Brown-shirted demons.
National Satanists.
Satan's Servants (the SS).

If I had to choose between being a Nazi and a Jew -- I'd go Jewish. I could keep my culture and my moral values.

[Kinser79]

(09-20-2017, 11:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I confess. I am little more than my intellect.

I should hope so since you don't have much intellect from what I can tell.

Quote:I can think of few things woreth dying for and even fewer for which to kill.

If you have nothing worth dying for or killing for you also lack anything worth living for. That is a pitiable state.

Quote:But you know how it is. If you want to know who has uncertainty about his sexuality, then look for the fellow who brags about being a 'stud'.

Non sequiter.

Quote:If you want to know who has the least-valid achievements (especially including finding meaning in life) then look for the person who brags about having his $#!+ together. If you want to know who is mishandling his money, then look for the schmuck who wastes money on status symbols.  I prefer living like a food-processing worker and making a middle-class income to making a middle-class living and trying to live like an aristocrat. With the former one can amass some savings and do some really-great things; with the latter one achieves a debt-driven banality.

1. I made no claims as to having my shit together. I merely made a claim as to being able to see through your bullshit quickly. I've seen your type before. While they exist in all the states I've lived they were most numerous in Southern Commiefornia and in Florida. I think it is the lack of bitter winters that thin the herd.
2. I don't have an ostentatious lifestyle either unless you count my pimpmobile from the 1970s which I intentionally bought and tricked out for the express purpose of tricking it out. Car customization is a documented hobby for some people--I'm one.
3. What is and is not a waste of money is in the eye of the beholder. Generally speaking paying for the cable tee-vee is an expense I could live without, however, it is a requirement to keep my mother sedate. Were she not living with us we probably wouldn't have it since no one besides her is interested in a dead medium.

Quote:I have good cause to see my own failings. I have long despised myself for failing to live up to my potential. It turns out that people have mishandled me badly. Oh yes, I have a drug and alcohol problem -- that is, being so harshly judgmental about addiction.

Translation: I'm a loser because other people, it is never my fault.

That is such a poor excuse I wouldn't accept it from my 7 year old niece much less a grown ass man. Though it does make me wonder, what is it like to be so pathetic that a prepubescent child outstrips you in personal responsibility.

Quote:If I had known about Asperger's

You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition. In short you don't have it because no one does. I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all.

Quote: when I was young I would have had a very different and much more-rewarding life. If I could get away with Asperger's (and the one good thing about America is that it does reasonably well for people with handicaps) I would probably have a good job, a wife (probably with Asperger's) and children. Adopted, of course. They probably wouldn't look much like us... but at least they would not have the Curse.  People like me are typical fathers of children who end up institutionalized for autism.

You aught to be glad America isn't Kinserland. Were it, you would have likely been sterilized. As for obtaining a wife, well you would need resources to get one of those, which means you'd have to take responsiblity for yourself and actually produce something of value. One universal fact about women is that in the main they look for resources out of a man. Why? Because they want those resources for their eggs which with luck one day become children and children require resources, a lot of them.

Quote:If it takes a welfare state to aid children out of poverty, then so be it.

Except in no welfrare state has welfare alleviated poverty. Rather it merely maintains the poor at a consistently miserable level. We now have three generations, maybe four, which have consistantly lived on welfare and guess what, they're still impoverished.

Quote: I see a cynical solution in poverty in people using welfare to get a sofa, a TV, beer, ice cream, and chips and getting grotesquely obese... and ending up with a coronary. If I must rely upon disability I will make sure to have a dog to walk, food good for me, and something other than the TV. Like Internet access and the desire to seek something really good.

It is really difficult to buy a sofa, tee-vee or beer with most forms of welfare. SNAP can be used on ice cream and chips because those are considered to be food by some. Even then, a large part of the problem with people using programs like SNAP for junk food is a utter lack in culinary training. When you don't know how to cook you have to eat shit from a box. As for me, the only shit in a box that I eat are the MREs in the Hurricane Kit. Though we also eat those when we have to turn them over, the self-life is only like 5 or 6 years.

With proper planning, visiting the local vegetable stands/farmers market and other such places one can eat healthful food on SNAP. Myself I prefer to not have to use that program, but I certainly won't turn down an opportunity to buy groceries on someone's card for cash. But then again, I view the welfare state as mostly there for me to scam as much as possible rather than any ridiculous notion that it is there to "help people". If the goal was to lift people out of poverty then the government would take expressly pro-business and pro-domestic production policies to ensure everyone who could work had at least a minimum level job.

Also I pity your dog. It can't be easy for him to be the brains of the operation.

[pbrower2a]

Kinser -- you have not been in the therapy sessions that I have been in.

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's, is a developmental disorder characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.[1] As a milder autism spectrum disorder (ASD), it differs from other ASDs by relatively normal language and intelligence.[4] Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and unusual use of language are common.[5][6] Signs usually begin before two years old and typically last for a person's entire life.[1]

The exact cause of Asperger's is unknown.[1] While it is probably partly inherited, the underlying genetics have not been determined conclusively.[5][7] Environmental factors are also believed to play a role.[1] Brain imaging has not identified a common underlying problem.[5] The diagnosis of Asperger's was removed in the 2013 fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and people with these symptoms are now included within the autism spectrum disorder along with autism and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.[1][8] It remains within the tenth edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) as of 2015.[4]
[/url]
There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.[5] Treatment is aimed at improving poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[2] Interventions may include social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, parent training, and medications for associated problems such as mood or anxiety.[2] Most children improve as they grow up, but social and communication difficulties usually persist.[9] Some researchers and people on the autism spectrum have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that autism spectrum disorder is a difference, rather than a disease that must be treated or cured.[10][11]

In 2015, Asperger's was estimated to affect 37.2 million people globally.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-GBD2015Pre-3][3] The syndrome is named after the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication, had limited understanding of others' feelings, and were physically clumsy.[12] The modern conception of Asperger syndrome came into existence in 1981 and went through a period of popularization.[13][14][15] It became a standardized diagnosis in the early 1990s.[16] Many questions and controversies remain about aspects of the disorder.[9] There is doubt about whether it is distinct from high-functioning autism (HFA).[17] Partly because of this, the percentage of people affected is not firmly established.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

[Warren Dew]

(09-19-2017, 10:19 PM)Kinser79 Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

I would not doubt that PBR has a vested interest in maintaining the welfare state, however, I have seen little evidence of his supposed intellgence.

As for countering a lifetime of exposure to propaganda, I did it.  Of course having been a Marxist-Leninist and a propagandist myself it was far easier for me to detect what is propaganda.

I'm not at all claiming he's smarter than you - just that he's smarter than Bob.

[Warren Dew]

(09-20-2017, 11:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If I had known about Asperger's when I was young I would have had a very different and much more-rewarding life. If I could get away with Asperger's (and the one good thing about America is that it does reasonably well for people with handicaps) I would probably have a good job, a wife (probably with Asperger's) and children. Adopted, of course. They probably wouldn't look much like us... but at least they would not have the Curse.  People like me are typical fathers of children who end up institutionalized for autism.

There are a lot fewer female aspies than male aspies, so you'd be unlikely to have a wife who was also an aspie.

Also, Asperger's is a gift, not a curse.  I'm thrilled to have two of three kids who are likely aspies.  Aspies interact fine with other aspies; it's the neurotypicals that are the problem.

(09-20-2017, 12:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

The last paying job that I had was as a substitute school teacher -- so I know how rough poverty can be on students.

If you are talking about a low-paying job in retail, as in a convenience store -- such would really radicalize me.

We've discussed this before.  I'm talking about the $80k/year programming job that you could probably get.  Asperger's is a big asset in programmers.

[Warren Dew]

(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

[Bob Butler 54]

(09-21-2017, 12:44 AM)Warren Dew Wrote: I'm not at all claiming he's smarter than you - just that he's smarter than Bob.

From what I have seen and heard, perceived intelligence is not a good predictor of which partisan faction one belongs to, but high intelligence lets one cling harder to whichever perspective. It can be a handicap of sorts if one is looking for the correct world view. The self perceived bright guy can be so certain he seem to himself right to be stubborn. How he looks from outside is a different story.

On the other had, perceiving one's self as being intelligent often compels one to force the other guy to seem unintelligent. Thus, the articulate guy with sometimes good arguments often finds himself in the gutter.

Perceived intelligence is not always a great indicator in politics and world views.

[pbrower2a]

(09-21-2017, 12:52 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 11:32 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: If I had known about Asperger's when I was young I would have had a very different and much more-rewarding life. If I could get away with Asperger's (and the one good thing about America is that it does reasonably well for people with handicaps) I would probably have a good job, a wife (probably with Asperger's) and children. Adopted, of course. They probably wouldn't look much like us... but at least they would not have the Curse.  People like me are typical fathers of children who end up institutionalized for autism.

There are a lot fewer female aspies than male aspies, so you'd be unlikely to have a wife who was also an aspie.

Also, Asperger's is a gift, not a curse.  I'm thrilled to have two of three kids who are likely aspies.  Aspies interact fine with other aspies; it's the neurotypicals that are the problem.

There are good things, like being able to listen to classical music and appreciate counterpoint because I cannot stand the sound volume at a rock concert.  But struggling to get and hold jobs because one muffs job interviews and losing jobs because one responds to little calamities the wrong way isn't so great. In an economic order that shows no mercy such is awful.

But if I knew I would be protected with ADA when I needed it. I would have not made some of the career mistakes that I made. I might have gotten a teaching degree. Paraplegics, quadriplegics, the deaf, and the blind know that they have a proble. Aspergers when I was a young adult had no clue. Back then the people getting attention were those who ended up before the criminal justice system.

Quote:

(09-20-2017, 12:04 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:44 PM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-19-2017, 09:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: Unlike with you, I think in his case it is the latter since he rarely if ever makes new arguments.

I think you've got that backwards.  Most people have to encounter new ideas more than once if they are counter to a lifetime of propaganda exposure - especially when the propaganda specifically includes simplistic ways to reject those ideas.  In addition, I believe, he has a vested interest in the welfare system.  Get him a job that takes him off welfare for a few years, and he might suddenly become open minded.

The last paying job that I had was as a substitute school teacher -- so I know how rough poverty can be on students.

If you are talking about a low-paying job in retail, as in a convenience store -- such would really radicalize me.

We've discussed this before.  I'm talking about the $80k/year programming job that you could probably get.  Asperger's is a big asset in programmers.

That would have been good. Back in my young-adult times the programming jobs had fierce competition awaiting anyone applying.

[pbrower2a]

(09-21-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

It is a disability. It interferes with executive function.

..and social life. and having fun. and getting and holding jobs.

[Warren Dew]

(09-21-2017, 03:25 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(09-21-2017, 11:16 AM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

It is a disability. It interferes with executive function.

No it doesn't.  You're confusing it with ADD, perhaps.

Quote:..and social life. and having fun. and getting and holding jobs.

Yes, if you try to do those things with NTs.

[Kinser79]

(09-20-2017, 11:28 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: Kinser -- you have not been in the therapy sessions that I have been in.

Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's, is a developmental disorder characterized by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.[1] As a milder autism spectrum disorder (ASD), it differs from other ASDs by relatively normal language and intelligence.[4] Although not required for diagnosis, physical clumsiness and unusual use of language are common.[5][6] Signs usually begin before two years old and typically last for a person's entire life.[1]

The exact cause of Asperger's is unknown.[1] While it is probably partly inherited, the underlying genetics have not been determined conclusively.[5][7] Environmental factors are also believed to play a role.[1] Brain imaging has not identified a common underlying problem.[5] The diagnosis of Asperger's was removed in the 2013 fifth edition of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM-5), and people with these symptoms are now included within the autism spectrum disorder along with autism and pervasive developmental disorder not otherwise specified.[1][8] It remains within the tenth edition of the International Classification of Diseases (ICD-10) as of 2015.[4]
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There is no single treatment, and the effectiveness of particular interventions is supported by only limited data.[5] Treatment is aimed at improving poor communication skills, obsessive or repetitive routines, and physical clumsiness.[2] Interventions may include social skills training, cognitive behavioral therapy, physical therapy, speech therapy, parent training, and medications for associated problems such as mood or anxiety.[2] Most children improve as they grow up, but social and communication difficulties usually persist.[9] Some researchers and people on the autism spectrum have advocated a shift in attitudes toward the view that autism spectrum disorder is a difference, rather than a disease that must be treated or cured.[10][11]

In 2015, Asperger's was estimated to affect 37.2 million people globally.[url=https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome#cite_note-GBD2015Pre-3][3] The syndrome is named after the Austrian pediatrician Hans Asperger who, in 1944, described children in his practice who lacked nonverbal communication, had limited understanding of others' feelings, and were physically clumsy.[12] The modern conception of Asperger syndrome came into existence in 1981 and went through a period of popularization.[13][14][15] It became a standardized diagnosis in the early 1990s.[16] Many questions and controversies remain about aspects of the disorder.[9] There is doubt about whether it is distinct from high-functioning autism (HFA).[17] Partly because of this, the percentage of people affected is not firmly established.[5]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asperger_syndrome

I don't need to see a head shrinker to read the DSM-V.  The diagnosis was removed in 2013 meaning not only do you not have it, but no one does.  You may or may not have a spectrum disorder but unless you actually have a diagnosis from an actual psychologist I have no reason to believe you actually have a spectrum disorder.

I have noted that this "condition" became your current excuse for being a pathetic waste of oxygen and food after your last parent died and you could no longer reasonably lay blame at them for your existence.  Given that history, my point stands that you are merely seeking an excuse to be a victim or some sort of nonsense like that.  The only thing I can see that you are a victim of is arrested development--but that is fairly common in Boomers to start with.

Myself, I've never been much interested in being a victim.  But then again I also decided at some point (around age 10 or so) to take responsibility for my own failings, like a grown ass man.  Rather than allowing the hard times of my upbringing beat me down I used them to make me hard.

[Kinser79]

(09-21-2017, 01:04 AM)Warren Dew Wrote:

(09-20-2017, 08:58 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: You don't have Asperger's because that isn't a recognized condition.  In short you don't have it because no one does.  I also highly doubt you have any spectrum disorder at all. 

It was removed from DSM V, but a lot of people disagree with that change.

However, if what you're arguing is that it's not a disability, I agree.  It's a difference, but not a disability.

Convincing him that it is was a disability was just part of the mechanism to trap him onto the welfare plantation.  Perhaps you've already realized that.

Lots of people disagree with the change.  Doesn't mean that they are right.  I'm sure that lots of people would disagree with my own determination that ADD (a condition I was diognosed with, though thankfully not drugged for--Grandad wouldn't have it thank <insert favorite deity here>).

Autism Spectrum is not a disability.  I've actively sought out persons on the spectrum as employees for some tasks as I've stated in the past.  Perhaps PBR wouldn't like  being a donut finisher but my two finishers who are on the spectrum seem to do alright.

PBR didn't have to be convinced.  He has a long history of seeking out being disabled, or the victim, and other such things.  Honestly I think he has arrested development. 

As for welfare, yeah it is a trap.  You get on it, and get a couple kids or something you really can't attempt to work for someone else, or even yourself legally without losing your benefits.  In many cases the loss of the benefits could equate to about the same as someone losing a 35K/year job.

Granted I get by on 30K/year but the boyfriend makes far more and we intentionally keep our expenses low, so low as to have moved into my Grandmother's house as it is paid off (and she had willed it to me anyway).