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09-08-2018, 04:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-08-2018, 05:02 AM by TheNomad.)
omg it seems the McCain funeral WAS sort of a dividing line of a Public Shift in Mood against the current president.
The funeral was a very public platform - a stage - on which to sort of reveal the "beak" of the bird.
-It revealed a message of unity across party lines even and up to W and the Obamas against the current president.
-The NYT op-ed makes shock claim of secret cabal fighting for "freedom" by managing the president in the name of America.
-The legal woe noose tightens significantly.
-Cracks appear in the veneer: the washington mall image is proved a fake.
-Syrian/Iranian wargames involving Russia spike.
-Justice nominee has Roe problem from the past.
-All kinds of staff resigning/leaving.
-Obama appears on the scene and begins campaigning.
-News outlets like CNN on full magnitude coverage (even higher than normal, like buzzards).
-Numerous public officials question faculty of president to rule.
-Sen Warren openly calls for impeachment.
-Guliani is complete mess, like mobster wiping blood off the pavement before the cops arrive.
-Reports of "isolated" and "unstable" with foes lurking.
- NEW 9/8/19: VOW TO USE MILITARY TO BUILD WALL http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...d-DHS.html
----------------------------------------------
We can see the heightened escalation in just the last few weeks. What are we witnessing? Why did it happen? McCain funeral: just a spark for he embers... not purposefully significant, just an event we may look back upon and say "that was when it began"?
Does it reveal anything of our current location in the saeculum/turning?
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"I come not to praise Caesar, but to bury him!"
(Technically the Romans in pagan times burned their dead and did not bury them, but that was Shakespeare and not Plutarch putting words into the mouth of Mark Antony) .
As they prepared to bury John McCain, the politicians elevated his myth as a bipartisan maverick. He was a very standard politician, not at all liberal. But he had trouble with Trump. Could it be that Trump reminded him of his captors in North Vietnam and perhaps the occasional KGB 'consultant'?
Shakespeare is part of the American heritage. He may have been British, but our political tradition is originally British. When we replaced a King with a President and a Parliament with Congress we fully became American in our politics. But with his rejection of political tradition through demagoguery that would put William Jennings Bryant to shame, followed by his adoption od dictatorial or despotic style, Donald Trump has rebelled against a benign and necessary tradition. He acts like those who win a freaky election in other countries and says of the opposition "We won -- you're done!"
Liberals can do only so much to break the influence of Trump. It is now up to conservatives as upholders of tradition. Maybe liberals must affect, or better adopt, conservative style. Obama may have been ahead of the curve on that, and maybe that scared the Right more than anything else. But those traditions do not imply unlimited indulgence. Even something so basic as good taste implies restraint. Just think of my thread on dictatorial taste, where I lampooned the affectations of grandeur of such horrid people as Saddam Hussein, Nicolae Ceausescu, Ferdinand Marcos, Victor Yanukovich, Moammar Qaddafi, and Hermann Goering. It's not power; the White House and 19 Downing Street are simply too bourgeois for such opulence. For similar taste and morals I added such drug lords as Pablo Escobar and Carlos Lehder. Donald Trump has expressed himself outside of the Presidency in a similar manner.
A hint: the Rockefeller family is comparatively austere in its affectations, and was so even when John Davison Rockefeller II was nouveau-riche. Maybe creating wealth instead of stealing it, or serving Humanity instead of grafting from it is inconsistent with delusions of grandeur.
....We can no longer have Barack Obama as President, but we have him as President Emeritus, and that can be a source of influence. The role of Donald Trump may be to show us how not to lead in a Crisis Era.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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I think the McCain funeral made it clear the new dividing line is between pro-Trump and anti-Trump. So we saw a gathering of anti-Trumpers mourning a comrade, but also in a sense mourning the end of an era.
There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
Steve Barrera
[A]lthough one would like to change today's world back to the spirit of one hundred years or more ago, it cannot be done. Thus it is important to make the best out of every generation. - Hagakure
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(09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
I've been saying this. I no longer feel as if there is even ONE political party anymore. AND that it might be the culmination of something I really don't like and that is unfortunate: all our sentiments in the political process have become "who do we DISLIKE THE LEAST". Instead of what it should be: "who do we WANT".
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(09-08-2018, 04:59 AM)TheNomad Wrote: Does it reveal anything of our current location in the saeculum/turning?
That's why we are here right? ▲  
Some (a faint few) of you have a greater knowledge of this stuff than I. ◄ 
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(09-08-2018, 03:58 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
I've been saying this. I no longer feel as if there is even ONE political party anymore. AND that it might be the culmination of something I really don't like and that is unfortunate: all our sentiments in the political process have become "who do we DISLIKE THE LEAST". Instead of what it should be: "who do we WANT".
Our whole political system is a wreck. We are in the most dangerous time in American politics since the advent of the American Civil War. At least America united quickly in the wake of the economic meltdown that started the Great Depression, and American politics were quite placid as the Second World War loomed upon us.
We have never been at so great a risk of a political or military coup.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(09-08-2018, 07:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (09-08-2018, 03:58 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
I've been saying this. I no longer feel as if there is even ONE political party anymore. AND that it might be the culmination of something I really don't like and that is unfortunate: all our sentiments in the political process have become "who do we DISLIKE THE LEAST". Instead of what it should be: "who do we WANT".
Our whole political system is a wreck. We are in the most dangerous time in American politics since the advent of the American Civil War. At least America united quickly in the wake of the economic meltdown that started the Great Depression, and American politics were quite placid as the Second World War loomed upon us.
We have never been at so great a risk of a political or military coup.
You say now a coup is possible? Then what does it look like? I'm confused. Describe an example of a coup in America right now.
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(09-08-2018, 07:50 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (09-08-2018, 07:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (09-08-2018, 03:58 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
I've been saying this. I no longer feel as if there is even ONE political party anymore. AND that it might be the culmination of something I really don't like and that is unfortunate: all our sentiments in the political process have become "who do we DISLIKE THE LEAST". Instead of what it should be: "who do we WANT".
Our whole political system is a wreck. We are in the most dangerous time in American politics since the advent of the American Civil War. At least America united quickly in the wake of the economic meltdown that started the Great Depression, and American politics were quite placid as the Second World War loomed upon us.
We have never been at so great a risk of a political or military coup.
You say now a coup is possible? Then what does it look like? I'm confused. Describe an example of a coup in America right now.
Seven Days in May.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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09-09-2018, 10:28 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-09-2018, 10:28 AM by David Horn.)
(09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: I think the McCain funeral made it clear the new dividing line is between pro-Trump and anti-Trump. So we saw a gathering of anti-Trumpers mourning a comrade, but also in a sense mourning the end of an era.
There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
The Dems are moving back toward a focus on economics, and about time too! The GOP is just fractured, and will be until Trump is gone. Then? I can't even guess. I do think the Dems will be shedding politicians like old, scaly skin, and the new arrivals will be notably different. Whether they can win anything is another question entirely, but the post-Goldwater changes to the GOP didn't produce instant results either.
2020 will either be a sea change election, or it will usher in an even more intense focus on purging the Democrats and opposing the GOP. The newly extreme SCOTUS might actually help this process along, though we older folks may not see any benefits.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(09-09-2018, 10:28 AM)David Horn Wrote: (09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: I think the McCain funeral made it clear the new dividing line is between pro-Trump and anti-Trump. So we saw a gathering of anti-Trumpers mourning a comrade, but also in a sense mourning the end of an era.
There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
The Dems are moving back toward a focus on economics, and about time too! The GOP is just fractured, and will be until Trump is gone. Then? I can't even guess. I do think the Dems will be shedding politicians like old, scaly skin, and the new arrivals will be notably different. Whether they can win anything is another question entirely, but the post-Goldwater changes to the GOP didn't produce instant results either.
2020 will either be a sea change election, or it will usher in an even more intense focus on purging the Democrats and opposing the GOP. The newly extreme SCOTUS might actually help this process along, though we older folks may not see any benefits.
I have a different prediction. I expect a strong Third Party candidacy to challenge Trump from the Right-center This can attack his foreign policy and his insane tariffs and trade war as well as his objectionable personal and economic life. Plenty of conservatives would love to destroy his legacy and develop a different one.Note well that the Reagan era is going off into the rear-view mirror and under the horizon, so to speak.
Considering that Democrats will be picking up some seats in places now as much as R+7 in Cook PVI, it would be reasonable to expect those seats to be more conservative than the average for the Democrats as a whole. I doubt that Democrats can hold onto many of those for long. They might or might not keep a House majority into the mid-2020s, depending on the fickleness of the electorate.
I can already imagine how Democrats can gerrymander their way into Congressional majorities that they do not deserve. They can have districts that extend from core cities as far as seems safe into or past the suburbs. From a city like Columbus, Ohio (Indianapolis would work similarly) such districts might look conical -- perhaps with four cone-shaped districts that meet or nearly meet in downtown Columbus, outside of which is rural area), OK. in Michigan I would like to see Lansing and East Lansing connected... and majority-minority parts of Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and perhaps Battle Creek.
Most of us have noticed a tendency for suburban voters to drift D from R, reflecting in part that much of Suburbia is becoming legitimately urban. It could also be that the anti-intellectual appeals that Republicans have been using to appeal to Fundamentalist/Evangelical Protestants is turning off much of the educated, white middle class. Such happened in California, New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Illinois a couple of decades ago, and it has been slow to affect such states as Texas, Georgia, Indiana, and Arizona. When this trend hits in the states that have been slow to take this trend among middle-class white voters, then the GOP is in really-bad shape.
Will the GOP survive? It could survive the FDR era, and I can't see any Democrat being as strong a leader as FDR. It will be useful for people unable to compete with Democratic machines and be around as a default should Democratic officials do such inexcusable things as take bribes or sell offices. Will conservatism survive? Of course -- because many people still believe in the free market and corporate power. Will the Trump agenda survive?
No. It has badly discredited itself. Americans are learning the hard way about a political demagogue who is also a pathological liar.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(09-09-2018, 03:03 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (09-09-2018, 10:28 AM)David Horn Wrote: (09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: I think the McCain funeral made it clear the new dividing line is between pro-Trump and anti-Trump. So we saw a gathering of anti-Trumpers mourning a comrade, but also in a sense mourning the end of an era.
There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
The Dems are moving back toward a focus on economics, and about time too! The GOP is just fractured, and will be until Trump is gone. Then? I can't even guess. I do think the Dems will be shedding politicians like old, scaly skin, and the new arrivals will be notably different. Whether they can win anything is another question entirely, but the post-Goldwater changes to the GOP didn't produce instant results either.
2020 will either be a sea change election, or it will usher in an even more intense focus on purging the Democrats and opposing the GOP. The newly extreme SCOTUS might actually help this process along, though we older folks may not see any benefits.
I have a different prediction. I expect a strong Third Party candidacy to challenge Trump from the Right-center This can attack his foreign policy and his insane tariffs and trade war as well as his objectionable personal and economic life. Plenty of conservatives would love to destroy his legacy and develop a different one.Note well that the Reagan era is going off into the rear-view mirror and under the horizon, so to speak.
Considering that Democrats will be picking up some seats in places now as much as R+7 in Cook PVI, it would be reasonable to expect those seats to be more conservative than the average for the Democrats as a whole. I doubt that Democrats can hold onto many of those for long. They might or might not keep a House majority into the mid-2020s, depending on the fickleness of the electorate.
I can already imagine how Democrats can gerrymander their way into Congressional majorities that they do not deserve. They can have districts that extend from core cities as far as seems safe into or past the suburbs. From a city like Columbus, Ohio (Indianapolis would work similarly) such districts might look conical -- perhaps with four cone-shaped districts that meet or nearly meet in downtown Columbus, outside of which is rural area), OK. in Michigan I would like to see Lansing and East Lansing connected... and majority-minority parts of Grand Rapids, Kalamazoo, and perhaps Battle Creek.
Most of us have noticed a tendency for suburban voters to drift D from R, reflecting in part that much of Suburbia is becoming legitimately urban. It could also be that the anti-intellectual appeals that Republicans have been using to appeal to Fundamentalist/Evangelical Protestants is turning off much of the educated, white middle class. Such happened in California, New York, Massachusetts, Pennsylvania, and Illinois a couple of decades ago, and it has been slow to affect such states as Texas, Georgia, Indiana, and Arizona. When this trend hits in the states that have been slow to take this trend among middle-class white voters, then the GOP is in really-bad shape.
Will the GOP survive? It could survive the FDR era, and I can't see any Democrat being as strong a leader as FDR. It will be useful for people unable to compete with Democratic machines and be around as a default should Democratic officials do such inexcusable things as take bribes or sell offices. Will conservatism survive? Of course -- because many people still believe in the free market and corporate power. Will the Trump agenda survive?
No. It has badly discredited itself. Americans are learning the hard way about a political demagogue who is also a pathological liar.
Much of the now solid Trump GOP voted for Obama. In a way, they are being self interested … as they should be. If trump's overreach leads to another GOP crash, that may be all it takes. If not, then the traditional GOP needs to find a new home. If that's a new party, then so be it.
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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(09-08-2018, 09:51 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (09-08-2018, 07:50 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (09-08-2018, 07:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (09-08-2018, 03:58 PM)TheNomad Wrote: (09-08-2018, 02:12 PM)sbarrera Wrote: There was an op-ed before the election by Andrew Sullivan where he stated that the if Trump won the election, then both the Democratic and Republican parties would be destroyed. That is what happened, so it's no surprise to see unity across party lines - those lines really aren't there any more.
I've been saying this. I no longer feel as if there is even ONE political party anymore. AND that it might be the culmination of something I really don't like and that is unfortunate: all our sentiments in the political process have become "who do we DISLIKE THE LEAST". Instead of what it should be: "who do we WANT".
Our whole political system is a wreck. We are in the most dangerous time in American politics since the advent of the American Civil War. At least America united quickly in the wake of the economic meltdown that started the Great Depression, and American politics were quite placid as the Second World War loomed upon us.
We have never been at so great a risk of a political or military coup.
You say now a coup is possible? Then what does it look like? I'm confused. Describe an example of a coup in America right now.
Seven Days in May.
Really? Have we all just become hashtags of our own? Wanna know what I mean? GO TO MY WEBSITE OF 10,000 words. Or, go watch this movie which explains my theory. Or, follow me on twitter. We should just delete this forum.
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True. I won't tell how the coup turns out, as that would be a spoiler.
The President to be overthrown seems like a dead ringer for Adlai Stevenson (I forget which Roman numerals) who is a 'tired' Lost liberal whom the Right considers grossly immoral for not endorsing a ferocious, ultra-capitalist and anti-Soviet agenda.
I can imagine the update. Let's start with the obvious -- that Adlai Stevenson was a man of principle, which is very different from what Donald Trump is. I'm thinking that some senior general tells the President that he is not going to initiate an aggressive war to annex Cuba or overthrow the Venezuelan government.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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