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(03-04-2017, 04:31 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: (03-02-2017, 02:58 AM)disasterzone Wrote: For the GI Generation, Betty Freidan
For Xer Anderson Cooper.
Any other examples come to mind?
Van Jones seems to have escaped the cynicism of the X Generation. I'm sure there's others too, like Kirsten Gillibrand. But they may be typical nomads in other ways.
Perhaps David Bowie was a prophet who was like an Xer ahead of his time.
I am assuming that the Generation 68' (European Boomers) had their first cohort in 1947. David Bowie born in the first cohort of this generation.
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10-24-2018, 11:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018, 12:05 AM by Teejay.)
(10-22-2018, 07:19 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Does Trump have any Idealist traits? I don't think so. His bully-style masculinity, hedonism and lack of interest in moral or spiritual issues seems Reactive to me. He is sort of Xer born too early. Actual boomers seem to despise him, while he is more popular among Xers.
Vladimir Putin and the autocrat of Belarus, Aleksandr Lukashenko have very similar traits despite having been born in the early 1950s.
Trump is definitely a Prophet, he is very much like Mussolini (1883) another Idealist from the European generation of 98' (Euro Missionaries, with their last cohort being around 1886-1887). I would argue to his supporters he is their Grey Champion, which explains a lot of the attitudes they exhibit.
My Boomer mother and best her friend aren't spiritual at the least, however they are still very idealistic and see themselves as being very principled. Myself as a quite late wave Nomad is much more pragmatic and realistic.
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Professional athletes are often ahead of their time as creators of styles. They have the means and the publicity.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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10-25-2018, 11:07 AM
(This post was last modified: 10-25-2018, 11:10 AM by pbrower2a.)
(10-24-2018, 11:50 PM)Teejay Wrote: (10-22-2018, 07:19 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Does Trump have any Idealist traits? I don't think so. His bully-style masculinity, hedonism and lack of interest in moral or spiritual issues seems Reactive to me. He is sort of Xer born too early. Actual boomers seem to despise him, while he is more popular among Xers.
Vladimir Putin and the autocrat of Belarus, Aleksandr Lukashenko have very similar traits despite having been born in the early 1950s.
Trump is definitely a Prophet, he is very much like Mussolini (1883) another Idealist from the European generation of 98' (Euro Missionaries, with their last cohort being around 1886-1887). I would argue to his supporters he is their Grey Champion, which explains a lot of the attitudes they exhibit.
My Boomer mother and best her friend aren't spiritual at the least, however they are still very idealistic and see themselves as being very principled. Myself as a quite late wave Nomad is much more pragmatic and realistic.
Howe and Strauss put Mussolini in the Lost Generation with most fascists. He was never a man of high principle, going from one political fad (socialism) to another (militant nationalism) until putting together his fascism. He was utterly amoral, and it is likely that he believed in little but himself and vague ideas of reviving the Roman Empire. Howe and Strauss use 1882 and 1883 as a divide, probably so that he could place FDR (born January 30, 1882) as an idealist.
1882 births include some thoroughly nasty people:
Brazilian dictator Getúlio Vargas, born April 19, fascistic dictator.
Conducator (Romanian equivalent of "Fuehrer" or "Duce") Ion Antonescu, born June 14, executed for crimes against humanity, including perpetration of the Holocaust, while dictator.
Field Marshal Wilhelm Keitel, born September 22, and executed by hanging on October 16, 1945 for his responsibility in horrific war crimes involving making the German Army the Nazi Army.
Maybe the right split is between January and February of 1882.
Not at all troublesome: Igor Stravinsky, whose music and lifestyle are clearly Nomadic, was born on June 5.
It could be that the eruption of August 26, 1883 had some effect on very young infants and upon children born some time later.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(09-16-2018, 09:12 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Tolkien (born 1892) was not a Lost at all. With his ecological sensitivity and whimsical hobby of constructing Elvish languages, he looks like a proto-Silent.
He was from South Africa, don't forget that. Some of them participated in the World Wars, but were those wars a real threat for SA? The events which shaped SA most were a) the Boer Wars and b) the end of apartheid, for better or for worse. Their last big change was in 1994, not 1945.
Checking: The Boer War went from 1899-1902. Tolkien was a kid then, and his parents would have protected him. Yes, fits that he became an Artist.
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(11-14-2018, 09:33 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (09-16-2018, 09:12 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Tolkien (born 1892) was not a Lost at all. With his ecological sensitivity and whimsical hobby of constructing Elvish languages, he looks like a proto-Silent.
He was from South Africa, don't forget that. Some of them participated in the World Wars, but were those wars a real threat for SA? The events which shaped SA most were a) the Boer Wars and b) the end of apartheid, for better or for worse. Their last big change was in 1994, not 1945.
Checking: The Boer War went from 1899-1902. Tolkien was a kid then, and his parents would have protected him. Yes, fits that he became an Artist.
I had a conversation with a South African on Personality Cafe, and he also claimed the SA saeculum is out of sync with the UK/US one.
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(11-15-2018, 06:44 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-14-2018, 09:33 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (09-16-2018, 09:12 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Tolkien (born 1892) was not a Lost at all. With his ecological sensitivity and whimsical hobby of constructing Elvish languages, he looks like a proto-Silent.
He was from South Africa, don't forget that. Some of them participated in the World Wars, but were those wars a real threat for SA? The events which shaped SA most were a) the Boer Wars and b) the end of apartheid, for better or for worse. Their last big change was in 1994, not 1945.
Checking: The Boer War went from 1899-1902. Tolkien was a kid then, and his parents would have protected him. Yes, fits that he became an Artist.
I had a conversation with a South African on Personality Cafe, and he also claimed the SA saeculum is out of sync with the UK/US one.
Theory works.
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(11-15-2018, 06:44 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-14-2018, 09:33 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (09-16-2018, 09:12 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Tolkien (born 1892) was not a Lost at all. With his ecological sensitivity and whimsical hobby of constructing Elvish languages, he looks like a proto-Silent.
He was from South Africa, don't forget that. Some of them participated in the World Wars, but were those wars a real threat for SA? The events which shaped SA most were a) the Boer Wars and b) the end of apartheid, for better or for worse. Their last big change was in 1994, not 1945.
Checking: The Boer War went from 1899-1902. Tolkien was a kid then, and his parents would have protected him. Yes, fits that he became an Artist.
I had a conversation with a South African on Personality Cafe, and he also claimed the SA saeculum is out of sync with the UK/US one.
-- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
 my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020
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(11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
Maybe the cycle was reset when arriving at the new place?
When we start settling on Mars, the new society will also start with a 1T (strong social cohesion, low self-expression, both necessary because of harsh conditions). Regardless of the current turning on Earth.
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(11-15-2018, 12:04 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
Maybe the cycle was reset when arriving at the new place?
When we start settling on Mars, the new society will also start with a 1T (strong social cohesion, low self-expression, both necessary because of harsh conditions). Regardless of the current turning on Earth.
-- perhaps. Good point
my 2 yr old Niece/yr old Nephew 2020
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12-30-2018, 01:39 PM
(This post was last modified: 12-30-2018, 01:39 PM by Bill the Piper.)
Abraham Maslow? Born in 1908, but his self-actualisation theory is quite Boomerish. Then some of his talking points remind me of Stapledon, who was a Missionary. Either way, an Idealist.
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Eleanor Roosevelt. She seemed very Missionary,
Buckminster Fuller -- too visionary to be Lost.
Josef Stalin. Do you see anything idealistic about him? Reptilian values.
Pete Seeger. Boom cultural figure.
Elijah Mohammed. Founding a new religion isn't very Lost.
Napoleon Bonaparte. See also Andrew Jackson.
Johannes Brahms. Some of the most introspective music ever.
Don Knotts, Don Adams. Seemingly Silent until you see the GI birthdates
From their personal lives you would think that Marlon Brando is the Silent and Paul Newman is the GI.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(11-15-2018, 12:04 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
Maybe the cycle was reset when arriving at the new place?
When we start settling on Mars, the new society will also start with a 1T (strong social cohesion, low self-expression, both necessary because of harsh conditions). Regardless of the current turning on Earth.
Very probably. When the Soviets conquered Eastern Europe, they forced their satellites to walk to their new rhythm - Russia had a Crisis from at least 1905 (lost the war against Japan, revolts followed) until when Lenin's "New Economic Policy" started in the early 1920s. Until then, eastern central Europe was closer to the Anglo-American rhythm.
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(11-15-2018, 12:04 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
Maybe the cycle was reset when arriving at the new place?
When we start settling on Mars, the new society will also start with a 1T (strong social cohesion, low self-expression, both necessary because of harsh conditions). Regardless of the current turning on Earth.
Wait a moment... when the Puritans went to America, England was in a 2T... and America kept on with it.
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(09-09-2019, 05:16 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (11-15-2018, 12:04 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
Maybe the cycle was reset when arriving at the new place?
When we start settling on Mars, the new society will also start with a 1T (strong social cohesion, low self-expression, both necessary because of harsh conditions). Regardless of the current turning on Earth.
Wait a moment... when the Puritans went to America, England was in a 2T... and America kept on with it.
The Puritans were a faith-based intentional community, who wanted the 2T to last forever.
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09-14-2019, 05:59 AM
(This post was last modified: 09-14-2019, 06:10 AM by Eric the Green.)
(11-14-2018, 09:33 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (09-16-2018, 09:12 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Tolkien (born 1892) was not a Lost at all. With his ecological sensitivity and whimsical hobby of constructing Elvish languages, he looks like a proto-Silent.
He was from South Africa, don't forget that. Some of them participated in the World Wars, but were those wars a real threat for SA? The events which shaped SA most were a) the Boer Wars and b) the end of apartheid, for better or for worse. Their last big change was in 1994, not 1945.
Checking: The Boer War went from 1899-1902. Tolkien was a kid then, and his parents would have protected him. Yes, fits that he became an Artist.
Also, he was born in the year that Neptune and Pluto exactly aligned. For some, that was a powerful and rare influence that broke through the Lost Generation's cynicism, much as Uranus and Pluto aligning did in the sixties for Gen X. Mostly though, the generation cycle trumped the astrological in personal traits, and mainly the astrological meanings were seen in the social and cultural trends of those times. But sometimes these conjunctions and alignments of the outer invisible planets do shine through the cynical generation born during them, and they indicate the genius and the penchant among a relatively few exceptional individuals for exploring the prophetic, the fantastic, the spiritually-aware and the altered states of consciousness that were prevalent in the times they were born into, despite the social disruption such 2T times have on the families and attitudes toward children that they are raised in.
These two rare conjunctions in 1892 and 1966 and surrounding years happened to coincide with 2T awakenings in the generational cycle, intensifying and doubling the power of both cycles, but this meant that the children raised during them were more likely to experience the neglect that S&H attribute to their growing up as cynical pragmatists who were not so interested in the awakening that was going on when they were born. So the generational cycle tended to obscure the astrological resonance of the conjunction in their birth charts. But a few geniuses like Tolkien can still shine through, especially if they are born in the exact conjunction year!
Of course it could be said that it was only the generational cycle at work in these times. For myself, though, that doesn't explain why I said in late June 1966 that I could feel the power of something happening, and then I discovered astrology, and that conjunctions among outer planets explain such times, and so I asked myself whether there was a conjunction going on then, and then looked it up and found to my amazement that the rare conjunction was exact on the very day I thought it was.
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(11-15-2018, 12:04 PM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: -- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
Maybe the cycle was reset when arriving at the new place?
When we start settling on Mars, the new society will also start with a 1T (strong social cohesion, low self-expression, both necessary because of harsh conditions). Regardless of the current turning on Earth.
I look at the places to settle in our own solar system, and I don't see much land to settle on, not to mention the enormous terraforming that would be needed to live on what land there is. And I don't see much appeal to living in satellites either, or that many people could live in them. There's just isn't much out there that could accommodate our overpopulation. I'm afraid that unless we break through the light barrier, and unless other ETs already have and are visiting us, there just isn't much reason to continue the space program, and people will lose interest when our current tech obsession wanes.
And I'm afraid that you millennial guys who did not experience an awakening, just don't realize how necessary spirituality and religion are to people of other generations, and don't realize that it will always come back after it is neglected and suppressed by civic intellectual generations. And you don't realize that this, and not such movements as the Enlightenment, are what are foundational to society, and that in healthy societies spirituality and religion are basic to life throughout all turnings, whereas we Americans and many others today live in a sick society precisely because science, technology, and above all commercial values have obscured and repressed the spiritual and the artistic values. A great society cannot be based on material power and values alone. It is based on devotion and dedication to higher values and the presence of God.
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(11-15-2018, 11:53 AM)Marypoza Wrote: (11-15-2018, 06:44 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: (11-14-2018, 09:33 AM)Hintergrund Wrote: (09-16-2018, 09:12 AM)Bill the Piper Wrote: Tolkien (born 1892) was not a Lost at all. With his ecological sensitivity and whimsical hobby of constructing Elvish languages, he looks like a proto-Silent.
He was from South Africa, don't forget that. Some of them participated in the World Wars, but were those wars a real threat for SA? The events which shaped SA most were a) the Boer Wars and b) the end of apartheid, for better or for worse. Their last big change was in 1994, not 1945.
Checking: The Boer War went from 1899-1902. Tolkien was a kid then, and his parents would have protected him. Yes, fits that he became an Artist.
I had a conversation with a South African on Personality Cafe, and he also claimed the SA saeculum is out of sync with the UK/US one.
-- it's stuff like this which makes me wonder about S&H theory. If our saecula cycle derives from the British one, shouldn't that hold true 4 Canada, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, & some other places the Brits went? We should all be in sync.
I think that we ARE all in synch. After World War Two we became one global society, and that process actually started in the 1890s when imperialism reached its climax.
You can see the commonalities among peoples now to an increasing degree on the cycle. Right now we see a typical 4T trend toward reaction, tyranny and racism all over the world. And I think the global movements especially among the young of rising people power will soon break through into a new progressive trend in the next decade.
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(09-14-2019, 06:28 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: I think that we ARE all in synch. After World War Two we became one global society, and that process actually started in the 1890s when imperialism reached its climax.
You can see the commonalities among peoples now to an increasing degree on the cycle. Right now we see a typical 4T trend toward reaction, tyranny and racism all over the world. And I think the global movements especially among the young of rising people power will soon break through into a new progressive trend in the next decade.
The Second World War was ultimately the climax of the late-19th century effort to colonize the world, at least in the Pacific "theater". Except for China, almost all of that war was in colonies of European powers and Japan (which assimilated the colonial ethos) -- Indochina, Malaysia, Indonesia, the Philippines, Burma, and French, British, and Australian insular possessions. Do not forget that Alaska (Attu and Kiska were occupied shortly by Japan) and Hawaii (Battle of Midway, and remember Pearl Harbor!) were colonies of the United States. At the end of the war the Soviet Union moved into Japanese frontier areas such as the Kuril Islands, southern Sakhalin (taken by Japan from Imperial Russia in 1906), and the effective colony of Manchukuo and brutally-treated Korea.
Much of the struggle between the Axis and Allied Powers was in colonial Africa, including the British puppet state of Egypt and the French and Italian colonies. Syria and Lebanon had a struggle between the Free French and the Vichy regime for dominance, with the Free French yielding independence to both countries to keep them out of Axis hands. Nazi conquests were an attempt to turn most of Europe into a frontier for German expansion -- note well that Hitler was an avid reader of Western stories of struggles between white settlers and 'barbarous savages' in the works of Karl May. Hitler chose to treat such people as Poles and Ukrainians as 'barbarous savages' who would lose all relevance in the new zones of German Lebensraum. Hitler played his own game of Cowboys and Indians -- with the Poles and Jews as Indians.
World War II is so horrific that except for Latin America and very isolated parts of Africa it or its sequels (independence struggles for South and Southeast Asia. Communist takeovers of central and Balkan Europe and the Chinese and Greek civil wars) that it effectively creates a reset for much of the world. Little could be more a Crisis than a Communist takeover that utterly destroys the old economic elites and imposes a Marxist cover on all culture.
I am tempted to believe that the efforts of Trump, Orban, and Bolsonaro to establish illiberal pseudo-democracies will implode. People do not want to suffer for economic elites.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(09-14-2019, 10:09 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Nazi conquests were an attempt to turn most of Europe into a frontier for German expansion -- note well that Hitler was an avid reader of Western stories of struggles between white settlers and 'barbarous savages' in the works of Karl May. Hitler chose to treat such people as Poles and Ukrainians as 'barbarous savages' who would lose all relevance in the new zones of German Lebensraum. Hitler played his own game of Cowboys and Indians -- with the Poles and Jews as Indians.
Except for the fact that the nazis actually liked the Indians. Winnetou the Apache chief is a good character.
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