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** 10-Feb-2020 World View: Antifa fascists
(02-10-2020, 04:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: > I don't see that antifa attacks innocents. Maybe a few bystanders
> in the way? They are dedicated to resisting fascists, as their
> name indicates. They confront them at their rallies. They disrupt
> speakers whom they consider fascist. A terrorist attacks people
> randomly, just to create terror. That's not antifa.
> Your quotes and videos claim antifa attacks right-wingers. I don't
> agree with such tactics and attacks. But these people that they
> attack are not innocent or random. They are fascists.
I believe that you've just described what Fascists are -- not the
innocent "bystanders" whose politics you loathe, but Antifa itself --
a Fascist organization that uses extreme violence to attempt to
eliminate its political opposition. Fascists don't attack randomly --
that's what terrorists do. As you say, Antifa targets its political
enemies -- that's what violent Fascists do. I don't know of any
better definition of Antifa as a Fascist organization than the one
you've given. You've really nailed it!
It never ceases to amaze me how the Left -- whether in the KKK,
Antifa, in China, or anywhere else -- is always the most violent and
most Fascist, but blames their political enemies for what they
themselves are doing, and seeks to justify their own violent Fascism
as "good violent Fascism," since it comes from the wonderful and
blessedly holy Left.
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(02-10-2020, 05:18 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 10-Feb-2020 World View: Antifa fascists
(02-10-2020, 04:53 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: > I don't see that antifa attacks innocents. Maybe a few bystanders
> in the way? They are dedicated to resisting fascists, as their
> name indicates. They confront them at their rallies. They disrupt
> speakers whom they consider fascist. A terrorist attacks people
> randomly, just to create terror. That's not antifa.
> Your quotes and videos claim antifa attacks right-wingers. I don't
> agree with such tactics and attacks. But these people that they
> attack are not innocent or random. They are fascists.
I believe that you've just described what Fascists are -- not the
innocent "bystanders" whose politics you loathe, but Antifa itself --
a Fascist organization that uses extreme violence to attempt to
eliminate its political opposition. Fascists don't attack randomly --
that's what terrorists do. As you say, Antifa targets its political
enemies -- that's what violent Fascists do. I don't know of any
better definition of Antifa as a Fascist organization than the one
you've given. You've really nailed it!
It never ceases to amaze me how the Left -- whether in the KKK,
Antifa, in China, or anywhere else -- is always the most violent and
most Fascist, but blames their political enemies for what they
themselves are doing, and seeks to justify their own violent Fascism
as "good violent Fascism," since it comes from the wonderful and
blessedly holy Left.
I didn't say I agree with antifa attacking their opponents.
Antifa is not fascist, because fascism is what they are opposed to. Fascism is an ideology, more than just a kind of tactic.
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** 10-Feb-2020 World View: Antifa Fascism
(02-10-2020, 05:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: > I didn't say I agree with antifa attacking their opponents.
> Antifa is not fascist, because fascism is what they are opposed
> to. Fascism is an ideology, more than just a kind of tactic.
Well, I'm glad that you don't agree with Antifa's violent Fascist
tactics.
But you've still defined Antifa as a violent Fascist organization.
There's no conflict between someone having an "anti-fascist" ideology,
and also being Fascist. You can be fascist and anti-fascist. There's
no conflict there.
Anyone can claim any "ideology" it wants, but in terms of actual
behavior, Antifa is a violent Fascist organization, according to your
own definition. I don't know why you would disagree with that. That
Antifa is a Fascist organization is really pretty obvious.
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02-11-2020, 12:52 AM
(This post was last modified: 02-11-2020, 12:53 AM by Eric the Green.)
(02-10-2020, 05:40 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 10-Feb-2020 World View: Antifa Fascism
(02-10-2020, 05:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: > I didn't say I agree with antifa attacking their opponents.
> Antifa is not fascist, because fascism is what they are opposed
> to. Fascism is an ideology, more than just a kind of tactic.
Well, I'm glad that you don't agree with Antifa's violent Fascist
tactics.
But you've still defined Antifa as a violent Fascist organization.
There's no conflict between someone having an "anti-fascist" ideology,
and also being Fascist. You can be fascist and anti-fascist. There's
no conflict there.
Anyone can claim any "ideology" it wants, but in terms of actual
behavior, Antifa is a violent Fascist organization, according to your
own definition. I don't know why you would disagree with that. That
Antifa is a Fascist organization is really pretty obvious.
No, fascism is an ideology based on race hatred and super-patriotism.
I disagree, because tactics don't define a political organization, only its tactics. And antifa has no ambitions of taking over power and ruling by violence. It is only there to resist the fascists. Antifa means anti-fascist.
Even if antifa had political ambitions, not all violent, authoritarian or totalitarian governments are fascist. Some are communist. Some are just thugs, usually installed by coups. Some are just thuggish kleptocracies, as is common in Africa and now ruling Venezuela.
Trump is violent and authoritarian too. He considers himself above the law, and stokes hatred of various groups. Hate crimes rise wherever he speaks. Yet you support him, and he is arguably fascist. Antifa resists Trump because Trump is a fascist.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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From a book from 1991 that I was about to discard... BAD, or the Dumbing of America by Paul Fussell.
The topic isn't simply the substandard that everyone recognizes as such and does not pretend is anything other than awful -- such as tetanus, a smelly cat-box, junk mail, or the weather on Mount Washington, Vermont. Such things are merely bad. The truly BAD is something awful that people defend or even promote as good that is at best mediocre, such as the "rich Corinthian leather" that Chrysler touted in very ordinary cars. America has oodles of bad colleges and "universities", graduation from which prepares one for nothing. Nobody would confuse Regents University (formerly CBN University associated with Pat Robertson) or Liberty University (associated with Jerry Falwell) with the renowned University of Virginia that no less a figure than Thomas Jefferson (one of the brightest men of his day) founded. But even that is better than fake schools that take one's money and grant one a Bachelor's or Master's degree, let alone a PhD, as did (this is me and not Paul Fussell) "Patriot University" which has a physical plant about the size of a ranch house that granted a PhD to the horrible Kent Hovind, promoter of young-earth Creationism and who might have taken an accounting course that might have taught him the consequences of tax fraud.
But here's a segment on Donald Trump from 1991 (page 93):
Quote:When Donald Trump brags that he is going to turn the Plaza Hotel in New York into "the most luxurious hotel in the world" , we know that his idea of "luxury' pivots on nugatory turndowns and unwanted candies at bedtime".
Were there more after 1991 (Fussell is no longer with us), then we would have plenty of examples of Donald Trump would qualify in many ways as BAD -- bad behavior (I grab them by their [crotches]), bad television (The Apprentice, which I found easy to "fire"); Trump steaks and Trump Vodka (how could one fail with either?), his involvement with the failed USFL and the Trump Shuttle airline... not to mention the horrid Trump University, not to be confused with fine schools named after such plutocrats as Stanford, Vanderbilt, and Colgate. His hotel and casino businesses have not fared well.
Trump is BAD -- hideous, yet given to overweening self-pride.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(02-12-2020, 07:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
I am only surprised that Lincoln and FDR didn't join in on the final chorus.
That this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom, and that government of the people, by the people, for the people shall not perish from the earth.
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Excellent. Too bad this song can't be played on broadcast stations, thanks to Dubya.
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(02-13-2020, 12:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (02-12-2020, 07:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
I am only surprised that Lincoln and FDR didn't join in on the final chorus.
Some lines for FDR:
I never thought I'd see the day/
Japan freer than the USA...
and just the same for Germany and Italy too
I warned us all that fear was worst/
to fall for it would make us cursed!
Courage would bring out our best/
in knocking out the fascist pest!
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(02-13-2020, 07:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (02-13-2020, 12:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (02-12-2020, 07:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
I am only surprised that Lincoln and FDR didn't join in on the final chorus.
Some lines for FDR:
I never thought I'd see the day/
Japan freer than the USA...
and just the same for Germany and Italy too
I warned us all that fear was worst/
to fall for it would make us cursed!
Courage would bring out our best/
in knocking out the fascist pest!
Ah....You sure seem to have way more freedom than any other person living under leftist authoritarian rule these days. I figure a few more years of good old fashioned American tolerance and exposure should pretty much seal your political fate. Keep singing boys.
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(02-11-2020, 12:52 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-10-2020, 05:40 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 10-Feb-2020 World View: Antifa Fascism
(02-10-2020, 05:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: > I didn't say I agree with antifa attacking their opponents.
> Antifa is not fascist, because fascism is what they are opposed
> to. Fascism is an ideology, more than just a kind of tactic.
Well, I'm glad that you don't agree with Antifa's violent Fascist
tactics.
But you've still defined Antifa as a violent Fascist organization.
There's no conflict between someone having an "anti-fascist" ideology,
and also being Fascist. You can be fascist and anti-fascist. There's
no conflict there.
Anyone can claim any "ideology" it wants, but in terms of actual
behavior, Antifa is a violent Fascist organization, according to your
own definition. I don't know why you would disagree with that. That
Antifa is a Fascist organization is really pretty obvious.
No, fascism is an ideology based on race hatred and super-patriotism.
I disagree, because tactics don't define a political organization, only its tactics. And antifa has no ambitions of taking over power and ruling by violence. It is only there to resist the fascists. Antifa means anti-fascist.
Even if antifa had political ambitions, not all violent, authoritarian or totalitarian governments are fascist. Some are communist. Some are just thugs, usually installed by coups. Some are just thuggish kleptocracies, as is common in Africa and now ruling Venezuela.
Trump is violent and authoritarian too. He considers himself above the law, and stokes hatred of various groups. Hate crimes rise wherever he speaks. Yet you support him, and he is arguably fascist. Antifa resists Trump because Trump is a fascist.
Fascism is just another progressive version of the use of big government to gain control over it's population. I guess Antifa is whatever it claims be to you right now. Are you still a fascist pig hater?
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(02-14-2020, 07:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-13-2020, 07:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (02-13-2020, 12:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (02-12-2020, 07:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
I am only surprised that Lincoln and FDR didn't join in on the final chorus.
Some lines for FDR:
I never thought I'd see the day/
Japan freer than the USA...
and just the same for Germany and Italy too
I warned us all that fear was worst/
to fall for it would make us cursed!
Courage would bring out our best/
in knocking out the fascist pest!
Ah....You sure seem to have way more freedom than any other person living under leftist authoritarian rule these days. I figure a few more years of good old fashioned American tolerance and exposure should pretty much seal your political fate. Keep singing boys.
We have the wit. Your side associates blind obedience to, and unqualified loyalty to, the personality of Donald Trump as the definitive patriotism. I never saw that with Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. One can disagree without being a traitor. One is a traitor if one betrays his country by compromising its institutions to the aid of a foreign power hostile to a longstanding heritage of one's country.
Your President holds Castro-style rallies. Your President held rallies in Iowa just before the caucus and in New Hampshire just before the primary. I could excuse Carter because he had a contest. What is Trump's excuse?
It's not the repression that we now have that scares me; it is what can follow. I am nearly broke, and I have but one escape from a fascistic regime in America. That exit, I regret to say, is typically honored in a funeral parlor and at a grave-site.
I am so broke that I might end up in an unmarked grave. OK, I have other concerns than having a stone honoring someone who missed out on something to have a monument that nobody goes to see. Mercifully I am so inconsequential that I will likely die of natural causes.
Left-wing tyranny or right-wing tyranny... both are evil.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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(02-14-2020, 07:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-11-2020, 12:52 AM)Eric the Green Wrote: (02-10-2020, 05:40 PM)John J. Xenakis Wrote: ** 10-Feb-2020 World View: Antifa Fascism
(02-10-2020, 05:21 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: > I didn't say I agree with antifa attacking their opponents.
> Antifa is not fascist, because fascism is what they are opposed
> to. Fascism is an ideology, more than just a kind of tactic.
Well, I'm glad that you don't agree with Antifa's violent Fascist
tactics.
But you've still defined Antifa as a violent Fascist organization.
There's no conflict between someone having an "anti-fascist" ideology,
and also being Fascist. You can be fascist and anti-fascist. There's
no conflict there.
Anyone can claim any "ideology" it wants, but in terms of actual
behavior, Antifa is a violent Fascist organization, according to your
own definition. I don't know why you would disagree with that. That
Antifa is a Fascist organization is really pretty obvious.
No, fascism is an ideology based on race hatred and super-patriotism.
I disagree, because tactics don't define a political organization, only its tactics. And antifa has no ambitions of taking over power and ruling by violence. It is only there to resist the fascists. Antifa means anti-fascist.
Even if antifa had political ambitions, not all violent, authoritarian or totalitarian governments are fascist. Some are communist. Some are just thugs, usually installed by coups. Some are just thuggish kleptocracies, as is common in Africa and now ruling Venezuela.
Trump is violent and authoritarian too. He considers himself above the law, and stokes hatred of various groups. Hate crimes rise wherever he speaks. Yet you support him, and he is arguably fascist. Antifa resists Trump because Trump is a fascist.
Fascism is just another progressive version of the use of big government to gain control over it's population.
I would think you would not be so inclined to support fascism, then. But you do.
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(02-14-2020, 11:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: ![[Image: 2f4921ccb1bfcba1ea22b0793639cea013b37b9a...pg?w=800&h]](https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/2f4921ccb1bfcba1ea22b0793639cea013b37b9af39ebad36248fbece11e6953.jpg?w=800&h)
Why do you guys keep clinging to Russia thingy? Is that all you have these days?
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(02-14-2020, 11:45 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (02-14-2020, 07:18 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-13-2020, 07:48 PM)pbrower2a Wrote: (02-13-2020, 12:46 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: (02-12-2020, 07:39 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
I am only surprised that Lincoln and FDR didn't join in on the final chorus.
Some lines for FDR:
I never thought I'd see the day/
Japan freer than the USA...
and just the same for Germany and Italy too
I warned us all that fear was worst/
to fall for it would make us cursed!
Courage would bring out our best/
in knocking out the fascist pest!
Ah....You sure seem to have way more freedom than any other person living under leftist authoritarian rule these days. I figure a few more years of good old fashioned American tolerance and exposure should pretty much seal your political fate. Keep singing boys.
We have the wit. Your side associates blind obedience to, and unqualified loyalty to, the personality of Donald Trump as the definitive patriotism. I never saw that with Bill Clinton or Barack Obama. One can disagree without being a traitor. One is a traitor if one betrays his country by compromising its institutions to the aid of a foreign power hostile to a longstanding heritage of one's country.
Your President holds Castro-style rallies. Your President held rallies in Iowa just before the caucus and in New Hampshire just before the primary. I could excuse Carter because he had a contest. What is Trump's excuse?
It's not the repression that we now have that scares me; it is what can follow. I am nearly broke, and I have but one escape from a fascistic regime in America. That exit, I regret to say, is typically honored in a funeral parlor and at a grave-site.
I am so broke that I might end up in an unmarked grave. OK, I have other concerns than having a stone honoring someone who missed out on something to have a monument that nobody goes to see. Mercifully I am so inconsequential that I will likely die of natural causes.
Left-wing tyranny or right-wing tyranny... both are evil.
Dude, I've been out witting the liberals for years. The Trump rallies aren't like Castro styles rallies. Where did you get that crazy idea from?
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The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.
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02-15-2020, 08:50 PM
(This post was last modified: 02-15-2020, 08:58 PM by Eric the Green.)
(02-15-2020, 06:04 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: (02-14-2020, 11:47 PM)pbrower2a Wrote:
Why do you guys keep clinging to Russia thingy? Is that all you have these days?
No, we got Ukraine too. Hadn't you heard??!
Mt. Russia-More. Very funny. But who will come and visit this monument after all the cultists who like Benedict Donald's Castro-style rallies have passed away?
Of course, Mussolini style is an even closer epithet, since he IS Mussolini.
Notice that as ugly as these 5 cats are, those who attend their rallies are even uglier.
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(02-15-2020, 06:12 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: ... The Trump rallies aren't like Castro styles rallies. Where did you get that crazy idea from?
Simple observation. He's playing on the hate, anger and fear of his sheeple, by offering to hurt those Other People they don't like. Where's the difference?
Intelligence is not knowledge and knowledge is not wisdom, but they all play well together.
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