The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Classic-Xer]

(06-11-2020, 11:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump seems to be doubling down hard on his racist and repressive stands. He adamantly crushes demands to rename military bases in the South named after confederate generals. Why make such a big deal out of this? I admit I didn't even know who they were named after. But why make a fuss and why not just go along with the trend?

And when people in Seattle take over an area outside a police station and occupy it and announce they are turning it into a community center, Mr. Drump jumps in and says to Seattle, get rid of these people or I will do it for you. Despite the criticism he got from his own and other former generals about such rhetoric, he does not apologize but doubles down. Meanwhile he tweets his disdain for those who criticized him. Nothing unusual there.

And he does not agree with taking away criminal immunity from police, even though that is a principle roadblock in the way of reform.

I'm sure there are other examples of Trump double-downs, but those are what come to mind.

What's the difference between the blue ilk of today and the Nazi's and the Bolshevik's '(blue ilk) of old? You better be careful about who and what you support and promote these days. As I've mentioned, gunning down a bunch of fascists and communists ain't going to be a problem with today's American right. Do you know any Democrats who are DUMB enough to fight or die for you or them these days? I don't really care if you redistribute police funding to them and end up losing the bulk of your police force. I mean, the liberals are pretty much fucked already and liberals fucking themselves more makes sense to all of us at this point.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 07:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Ain't much of struggle between the so called partisan divide  at this point with Red America remaining  neutral for the most part at this point while  whatever partisan divide or cultural rift that still exists within blue America is being settled. What you've been  watching and seeing lately mainly pertains to blue America these days with the other side waiting to see which side of the blue divide prevails as the victor. I hate to say this but if your side doesn't have the balls to control a bunch of radicals  nuts and a bunch criminals then you and every other clueless fool who posts here are going to get a taste of what it was like to live in the wild west. That  seems to be the direction that the nuts and the criminals want to take blue America at this point and the liberal Democrats seem more eager to appease and cater to their demands then stop them at this point.

The looters and the Bugaboo Bois seem to be fading somewhat.  They seem to be giving up the stage.  Perhaps the few incidents where the protesters turned the violent over to the police contributed, but the protesters have been on center stage alone for the last few days.  The curfews have mostly been dropped, decriminalizing assembly and partitioning for the right of grievances and putting the onus on stopping to the violence on the too violent police.

I have always thought of the reds having a racist element, one that they generally do not push hard, but which Trump by encouraging the KKK, the Neo Nazi, the racist police, and using the military against the American people, has cashed in on.  I suspect the the vehemence of the current protest is in part a reaction against the red resonance with racist attitudes.

But with the exception of Trump and the White House administration, the red celebration of racism seems to have stepped back down in the last few weeks.  Like, when one of the recent protests takes shape, you don’t see the KKK or the Neo Nazi counter demonstrating in favor of racism.  At the moment the voice of the people is for all men being equal under law, and this has taken a crisis heart intensity of resolve.  Well might the reds, Republicans, violent police unions, KKK and Neo Nazi make themselves scarce just now.  If the civics are finally following S&H’s call to redefine what will be acceptable after the crisis, thank you, and it is about time.  If they would only show as strong a reaction against those that ignore the isolation guidelines.

But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee who has a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law, Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically staying true to his American bases. Like I said, the racist white groups aren't much different than the racist liberal groups these days. I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

[Eric the Green]

(06-11-2020, 11:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 11:07 PM)Eric the Green Wrote: Trump seems to be doubling down hard on his racist and repressive stands. He adamantly crushes demands to rename military bases in the South named after confederate generals. Why make such a big deal out of this? I admit I didn't even know who they were named after. But why make a fuss and why not just go along with the trend?

And when people in Seattle take over an area outside a police station and occupy it and announce they are turning it into a community center, Mr. Drump jumps in and says to Seattle, get rid of these people or I will do it for you. Despite the criticism he got from his own and other former generals about such rhetoric, he does not apologize but doubles down. Meanwhile he tweets his disdain for those who criticized him. Nothing unusual there.

And he does not agree with taking away criminal immunity from police, even though that is a principle roadblock in the way of reform.

I'm sure there are other examples of Trump double-downs, but those are what come to mind.

What's the difference between the blue ilk of today and the Nazi's and the Bolshevik's '(blue ilk) of old? You better be careful about who and what you support and promote these days. As I've mentioned, gunning down a bunch of fascists and communists ain't going to be a problem with today's American right.   Do you know any Democrats who are DUMB enough to fight or die for you or them  these days? I don't really care if you redistribute police funding to them and end up losing the bulk of your police force. I mean, the liberals are pretty much fucked already and liberals fucking themselves more makes sense to all of us at this point.

Another example of Trump doubling down on his repression is his tweet passing on a conspiracy theory based on some random blog post that Martin Gugino, pushed to the ground by Buffalo police during a peaceful protest, was an antifa provacateur.

https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/75...r/2457512/

Speaking of losing police, 57 of those dupes on the Buffalo force resigned when the thugs who pushed Gugino were arrested for assault. Good riddance. Meanwhile the mayor supports police reform and justice. But why were those cops out there in the first place pushing people around?

The support for your thug fake president who supports your war on the people is declining these days, and his generals won't support the coup that your fake president is planning. And your right-wing is un-American.

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.  Like I said, the racist white groups aren't   much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.  I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

I have long seen the Republican Party as having racist and elitist elements. The Tea Party did a decent job of rejecting the elite element. Establishment Republicans really had a hard time getting near the White House last time around. The recent protests are going after the racist elements. Racism, violence and murder are being rejected hard.

If these two elements are both removed, that is a win from your perspective, I would think. The small government, low taxes, ignore problems aspect remains, but has gone well past the point of diminishing returns. Still, that is part of the traditional divide, almost respectable when compared to the elitist and racist tendencies. It will cycle back and forth, government doing most with the crisis heart, then that fades down with the cycles though the unraveling.

But what you are seeing is one aspect of red culture going away, becoming less dominant, be it one aspect I suspect neither of us respect.

[David Horn]

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

One question: will submerging the racism and racist culture just trigger a resurgence in the 1T? Exiting the Great Power saeculum, when the war was won and terms of peace set, Joe McCarthy and the HUAC spun-up a hate campaign that smeared a lot of very good people. Are we due for that again?

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-12-2020, 07:50 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

One question: will submerging the racism and racist culture just trigger a resurgence in the 1T? Exiting the Great Power saeculum, when the war was won and terms of peace set, Joe McCarthy and the HUAC spun-up a hate campaign that smeared a lot of very good people.  Are we due for that again?

I am guessing they will try.  After slavery went away, they got Jim Crow.  After the civil rights movement, blacks kept the ability to use hotels and restaurants, but there were attacks on affirmative action and the continued police violence.  Racism and tribal thinking are persistent in US culture.  The never again legislation at the end of a crisis period never quite works.  I expect something.  Still, every two or four generations the racists wind up giving up ground.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-12-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.  Like I said, the racist white groups aren't   much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.  I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

I have long seen the Republican Party as having racist and elitist elements.  The Tea Party did a decent job of rejecting the elite element.  Establishment Republicans really had a hard time getting near the White House last time around.  The recent protests are going after the racist elements.  Racism, violence and murder are being rejected hard.

If these two elements are both removed, that is a win from your perspective, I would think.  The small government, low taxes, ignore problems aspect remains, but has gone well past the point of diminishing returns.  Still, that is part of the traditional divide, almost respectable when compared to the elitist and racist tendencies.  It will cycle back and forth, government doing most with the crisis heart, then that fades down with the cycles though the unraveling.

But what you are seeing is one aspect of red culture going away, becoming less dominant, be it one aspect I suspect neither of us respect.

I view the KKK and Neo Nazi's as minor problems compared the problems that we've seen recently and seen not so long ago and seen decades earlier in other places. I could be wrong but it appears that the Democratic/ liberal side has way more radicals who are into participating large scale violence and destroying private/public property that impact way more lives than those carried out by the KKK and Neo Nazi's combined these days.

However, I'm not going to be surprised when a bunch of radical liberals are either blown up or gunned down by some Neo Nazi or a group of Neo Nazi's. I'll be the first to point it out to you and every other liberal here and say I told you so. Hell, I may even decide to really rub your nose in it and add insult to injury. As a general rule, I won't go that low but I will make an exception and go that low with you and every liberal who hasn't learned to think before they blurt something that comes across as clueless liberal and automatically accuse or broad brush like clueless liberals do and so forth.

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-12-2020, 06:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I view the KKK and Neo Nazi's as minor problems compared the problems that we've seen recently and seen not so long ago and seen decades earlier in other places. I could be wrong but it appears that the Democratic/ liberal side has way more radicals who are into participating large scale violence and destroying private/public  property that impact way more  lives than those carried out by  the KKK and Neo Nazi's combined these days.

However, I'm not going to be surprised when a bunch of radical liberals are either blown up or gunned down by some Neo Nazi or a group of Neo Nazi's. I'll be the first to point it out to you and every other liberal here and say I told you so. Hell, I may even decide to really  rub your nose in it and add insult to injury. As a general rule, I won't go that low but I will make an exception and go that low with you and every liberal who hasn't learned to think before they blurt something that comes across as clueless liberal and automatically accuse or broad brush like clueless liberals do and so forth.

I must admit that what the KKK and Neo Nazis demonstrated for a while ago does seem almost quaint compared to the recent demonstrations.  I see them continuing to lie low.

I also think Governor Cuomo is correct in separating the protesters from the looters, Black Lives Matter from the Boogaloos Bois.  Different motives entirely.  You can continue to misunderstand what is happening if that it what it takes to keep your fantasies alive, but don't expect anyone to take you seriously.

[Bob Butler 54]

Well, technically...

CNN says... 

CNN Wrote:In the wake of George Floyd's killing, the Movement for Black Lives -- already a massive global force -- has succeeded in birthing a phenomenon infinitely larger than itself. It can only be called a "Great Awakening" of empathy and solidarity, one without historical precedent.

Should someone explain that the name for this event without historical precedent has been taken?  

No No.  This is a crisis...

[Eric the Green]

(06-13-2020, 02:43 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Well, technically...

CNN says... 

CNN Wrote:In the wake of George Floyd's killing, the Movement for Black Lives -- already a massive global force -- has succeeded in birthing a phenomenon infinitely larger than itself. It can only be called a "Great Awakening" of empathy and solidarity, one without historical precedent.

Should someone explain that the name for this event without historical precedent has been taken?  

No No.  This is a crisis...

Indeed, but is this (coupled with the global pandemic) the "awakening of global consciousness" I had been predicting for this period under compassionate Neptune in the universal solvent sign Pisces (which extends from 2011 to 2025), now being activated by activist Mars in conjunction with it? That is quite an amazing description of this "phenomenon." "empathy and solidarity" is quite fitting indeed for this transit.

[pbrower2a]

(06-12-2020, 06:56 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-12-2020, 05:45 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.  Like I said, the racist white groups aren't   much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.  I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too. How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance? What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics. In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understands that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

I have long seen the Republican Party as having racist and elitist elements.  The Tea Party did a decent job of rejecting the elite element.  Establishment Republicans really had a hard time getting near the White House last time around.  The recent protests are going after the racist elements.  Racism, violence and murder are being rejected hard.

If these two elements are both removed, that is a win from your perspective, I would think.  The small government, low taxes, ignore problems aspect remains, but has gone well past the point of diminishing returns.  Still, that is part of the traditional divide, almost respectable when compared to the elitist and racist tendencies.  It will cycle back and forth, government doing most with the crisis heart, then that fades down with the cycles though the unraveling.

But what you are seeing is one aspect of red culture going away, becoming less dominant, be it one aspect I suspect neither of us respect.

I view the KKK and Neo Nazi's as minor problems compared the problems that we've seen recently and seen not so long ago and seen decades earlier in other places. I could be wrong but it appears that the Democratic/ liberal side has way more radicals who are into participating large scale violence and destroying private/public  property that impact way more  lives than those carried out by  the KKK and Neo Nazi's combined these days.

When powerless, Klansmen and neo-Nazis are usually nuisances unless they commit some outrageous hate crime. But note well that the original Nazis were nothing more than a nuisance to Jewish Germans (Jews long domiciled in Germany had fully assimilated into German culture, making contributions to German culture and commerce that had nothing to do with Judaism)... until the Nazis took power. Then the Nazis went from inconvenience to degradation to personal ruin to extermination. Modern antisemitism is racist above all else, and a menace to other minorities has never looked good to Jews.  

The 1915 Ku Klux Klan, founded before Fascismo in Italy and the NSDAP in Germany, expressed hatred for Jews from its inception. The 1915 Klan is in some ways the first fascists, being fascists before Mussolini and Hitler started their sick causes.  To be sure there has been no national Klan since 1942 when the 1915 Klan disbanded as the federal government hounded it for tax fraud (I wonder why -- the Klan had too much in common with Nazis to seem innocuous), but post-WWII Klan groups have never given Jews any cause for comfort. 

Although Klan violence has been primarily against blacks, individual Klansmen have committed horrific outrages against real and imagined Jews. One ex-Klansman has exposed that the Klan attracts many sociopaths and psychopaths who trivialize the value of human life of any kind  and find Klan ideology attractive for its potential. At one time, Klan groups had an antipathy for Nazism because Nazism was exotic for being German and objectionable for being anti-American That reflected a time when Klan groups had World War II veterans who harbored hatred for Nazis for what they did in war. Besides, the Nazis used rhetoric that Klansmen could never understand and had a focus upon Jews instead of upon the focus that Kluxist had for domination and abuse. You know who. Younger Klansmen have found Nazi racial ideas, including the concept of "Aryan" superiority, compatible. 

Jewish Germans were the definitive example of a model minority before 1933. Then they became pariahs whose condition kept getting increasingly bad until the Nazis chose to exterminate them.  If one is an American Jew does one have any cause to expect anything different with the KKK? The only difference that I can see between the Klan and the Nazis is that the Nazis would be more tolerant of my taste in music, except when it comes to Felix Mendelssohn, Gustav Mahler, George Gershwin, and Aaron Copland.  I'm guessing that Klansmen listen largely to country music, which is light in structural merit and philosophical allusions.

I will take the side of the Jews against the Klan and Nazis. 

Quote:However, I'm not going to be surprised when a bunch of radical liberals are either blown up or gunned down by some Neo Nazi or a group of Neo Nazi's. I'll be the first to point it out to you and every other liberal here and say I told you so. Hell, I may even decide to really  rub your nose in it and add insult to injury. As a general rule, I won't go that low but I will make an exception and go that low with you and every liberal who hasn't learned to think before they blurt something that comes across as clueless liberal and automatically accuse or broad brush like clueless liberals do and so forth.

Any group or clique that fosters murderous hatred deserves to be harassed, if not outlawed. So it is with "hate whitey" groups that most blacks recognize as disreputable rogues. People associated with Klan, neo-Confederate, and Nazi ideology have killed with race or religion as motivation. Example:

This troubled man turned his hard life into a pretext for murders and bombings.


KKK, Nazis, and the National States Rights Party (once a vehicle for the 1948 Presidential campaign of  Strom Thurmond, but since abandoned by all but the neo-fascist American Right. A hint: James Earl Ray, assassin of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., was one of its few members in 1968.

What a Jewish teenager (it was not Anne Frank, by the way) said of a neo-Nazi 

"What have we ever done to deserve to be beaten, robbed, and killed?"

applies to the whole of Humanity. It may not be possible to prevent the horrors that you see possible by timely action, basically having a cop everywhere to arrest someone like Joseph Paul Franklin  before he can kill someone. Franklin was eventually convicted for one of his racist murders (it was of a Jew, but note well that Nazi antisemitism is racist above all else). I understand the racist abyss as well as anyone who is not a part of it; after all, absolute evil is absolutely fascinating even if it is abominable. I have had encounters on the Web with people who accused me of being Jewish (which is an ironic compliment since I admire plenty of Jews for their stellar achievements and for having never persecuted my Huguenot, Quaker, and Mennonite -- perhaps also Hussite ancestors) and have told me that the Holocaust never happened but that they would like it to happen to so filthy a Jew as me. To this I say "I would rather be a Jew than you", and "if I had to choose between being a Nazi and a Jew I would be a Jew,  because Judaism would compromise neither my moral values nor my cultural preferences.

We liberals are not clueless about fascistic evil. We are the antithesis of anti-human fascist causes. As Eric Hoffer put it: 

"The opposite of a raging fascist is not a raging Communist. The opposite of a raging fascist is a sober liberal." 

But even at that, there is nothing conservative about any genocidal manifestation of fascist ideology.

[pbrower2a]

(06-13-2020, 02:43 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: Well, technically...

CNN says... 

CNN Wrote:In the wake of George Floyd's killing, the Movement for Black Lives -- already a massive global force -- has succeeded in birthing a phenomenon infinitely larger than itself. It can only be called a "Great Awakening" of empathy and solidarity, one without historical precedent.

Should someone explain that the name for this event without historical precedent has been taken?  

No No.  This is a crisis...

Unlike the Civil Rights struggle in America (largely in an Awakening, but to a lesser extent in a High -- don't under-estimate the role of GI and even Lost blacks in the struggle for ethnic equity in the 1950's) and People Power in the Philippines or the anti-Communist revolutions in central and Balkan Europe  that occurred in the more benign phase of a 3T as an expression of a libertarian trend.... I am not quite sure of where to put the anti-Apartheid struggle in South Africa... this event is in a Crisis Era, and in the most volatile part of a Crisis Era things change rapidly and decisively. 

Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle. Confederate stuff has become an anathema with amazing haste. The US Marine Corps has banned all Confederate emblems, and NASCAR has demanded their elimination. Mississippi seems set to change its flag to remove the Flag of the Defense of Slavery.

(I have suggested that the appropriate places for displays of the Confederate flag, aside from  existing monuments to the Confederate battle dead, is among other flags of disgrace such as the Nazi flag, the Soviet flag, the flag of "Democratic Kampuchea" (Khmer Rouge), the flag of the Italian Social Republic (Mussolini's puppet state), the Apartheid era flag of South Africa, the flag of Satan Hussein's Iraq, the ISIS banner, and the current flag of North Korea.  

We Americans are catching on to the hard reality that racism is a means of dividing and controlling us.  We are also learning that the sleaziness of the previous 3T offers nothing but pain and danger.

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

[pbrower2a]

(06-12-2020, 01:11 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 09:51 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-11-2020, 07:54 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Ain't much of struggle between the so called partisan divide  at this point with Red America remaining  neutral for the most part at this point while  whatever partisan divide or cultural rift that still exists within blue America is being settled. What you've been  watching and seeing lately mainly pertains to blue America these days with the other side waiting to see which side of the blue divide prevails as the victor. I hate to say this but if your side doesn't have the balls to control a bunch of radicals  nuts and a bunch criminals then you and every other clueless fool who posts here are going to get a taste of what it was like to live in the wild west. That  seems to be the direction that the nuts and the criminals want to take blue America at this point and the liberal Democrats seem more eager to appease and cater to their demands then stop them at this point.

The looters and the Bugaboo Bois seem to be fading somewhat.  They seem to be giving up the stage.  Perhaps the few incidents where the protesters turned the violent over to the police contributed, but the protesters have been on center stage alone for the last few days.  The curfews have mostly been dropped, decriminalizing assembly and partitioning for the right of grievances and putting the onus on stopping to the violence on the too violent police.

I have always thought of the reds having a racist element, one that they generally do not push hard, but which Trump by encouraging the KKK, the Neo Nazi, the racist police, and using the military against the American people, has cashed in on.  I suspect the the vehemence of the current protest is in part a reaction against the red resonance with racist attitudes.

But with the exception of Trump and the White House administration, the red celebration of racism seems to have stepped back down in the last few weeks.  Like, when one of the recent protests takes shape, you don’t see the KKK or the Neo Nazi counter demonstrating in favor of racism.  At the moment the voice of the people is for all men being equal under law, and this has taken a crisis heart intensity of resolve.  Well might the reds, Republicans, violent police unions, KKK and Neo Nazi make themselves scarce just now.  If the civics are finally following S&H’s call to redefine what will be acceptable after the crisis, thank you, and it is about time.  If they would only show as strong a reaction against those that ignore the isolation guidelines.

But I see it as the people taking the lead and the Democrats attempting to jump on the bandwagon.  The Republican seem caught between the bandwagon and keeping the racist vote, and thus as you say are pretty much sitting this one out.  They don’t seem to see the culture changing as much of the racist culture is being submerged.

I doubt the KKK and the Neo Nazi's have much interest in supporting a Northern Republican/Yankee   who has   a Jewish daughter, a Jewish son in law,  Jewish grand kids and an immigrant wife. Trump is basically  staying true to his American bases.

Donald Trump sows the whirlwind of chaos which extremists seek to exploit. As a political naif he fails to recognize the damage that he does. For that he is useful to some of the worst figures in American political life. 

Quote:Like I said, the racist white groups aren't much different than the racist  liberal groups these days.

I dare you -- I double-dog dare you -- no I triple-dog dare you with a wolverine on the side -- to name such a group. 

Quote:I'm sure that a bunch of mindless blue idiots would agree with your views and ignore the existence of all the racists and the racist believers that we hear/see these days and a bunch of Trump haters would go along with them too.

Black Lives Matters is a legitimate cause. Looting, property destruction, and assaults are not legitimate means of protest. Cameras originally taken to demonstrations to make video of police brutality have taken video of looting, arson, and assaults by outlaws who exploited lawful and peaceful protests. I trust that the legal system will recognize that looting a store is not a legitimate deed. Black Live Matters is not about 'liberating' liquor from a store. 
 

Quote:How many American people are into looting, rioting, street justice, mob rule, courts of public opinion and other stuff associated with third world politics and ignorance?

Don't knock the Third World; it has plenty of good people and some surprising sophistication in culture. If a country like Russia were to imitate the politics of Botswana, then that would be a huge improvement. I have no problem with the rule of law, which itself implies the need for a civil society in which property and persons get respect -- or else. In such case, "or else" means prison time.  

Quote:What you don't seem to grasp is that the bulk of us can read and aren't associated with poverty and don't want anything to do with the liberals, their cities, their problems, the bulk of their social programs or their low end politics.

You hypocrite. You live near a big city and the prosperity that that city allows to flow into your suburb! You fail to recognize that unlike the white middle class that makes practically no efforts to aid white people left behind in American progress, middle-class blacks and Hispanics try to make life better for poor people of their ethnicity. We liberals want to be involved in poverty -- to ameliorate it if we cannot end it.  That means social programs. For real low-end politics (aside from personal corruption which is never something upon which any politician campaigns) just look at Donald Trump, to scammers offering conspiracy theories, and to politicians who believe that no human suffering is ever in excess so long as such misery results in the power, indulgence, or gain of economic elites. Mirror-image Marxism such as what Trump promotes  differs from Marxism only in endorsing what Marxists excoriate.     

Quote:In short, what we've seen lately isn't viewed by us as being our problem. The Republicans understand that about us which is why the party has decided to remain idle and leave it to the Democrats to figure out themselves. You may as well get used to the idea of Republican America not getting directly involved with Democratic issues.

  
Republican politicians have typically been utterly clueless about the situation. Donald Trump is the prime exemplar of the Dunning-Kruger effect in which people of superficial knowledge get a few cranky ideas and think themselves wiser and more adept than the recognized experts. Give them some more legitimate knowledge and they are humbled. 

Don't forget: President Trump even got COVID-19 wrong -- almost all wrong.

[pbrower2a]

(06-13-2020, 05:25 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

Maybe the judgment is upon the worst of the worst such as war criminals. But after the Crisis Era is over, enmities tend to die off fast. The victors recognize that the soldier drafted as cannon fodder for the losing side or the dazed and hungry people milling about in the wreckage of a once-porspeous society that was on the wrong end of a war are soon recognized as much victims as anyone else.  

I expect Donald Trump and his coterie to avoid judgment in America. If they see no pardon they might take flight. Such could be convenient in 2021.

We have big problems to take care of. people part of the solution will be relevant; people with no solutions (which includes reversion to the practices that got us into this mess) will be rendered irrelevant even if nothing worse happens to them than electoral defeat in 2022 or 2024.  3T ideas that brought America into Crisis will become irrelevant and thus be rejected. That will seem adequate rebuke to those ho harbored such ideas. That will be unpleasant, but nobody deserve a stay in any 're-education camp' of the type that appeared in Vietnam after the Communists took over the South.

[David Horn]

(06-13-2020, 05:25 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

That will be emotionally satisfying, but essentially worthless, unless the power shifts down to average people and remains there.  If we fail in that task, then the elites will bide their time and retake their current power positions. It sucks, but it's been inevitable so far.  After all, Alphas are Alphas and Betas are Betas.

[Bob Butler 54]

(06-13-2020, 07:49 AM)David Horn Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:25 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(06-13-2020, 05:04 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Donald Trump and his political allies are clearly on the wrong side of history now, and having mucked things up so badly they will be fortunate if the accounting for their misdeeds and incompetence will be gentle.

I would be inclined to doubt gentleness.  In the high, you generally stomp on the remnants of the old values with forethought and vindictiveness.  I suspect there will be movements directed against the sort of political fantasies the red have indulged in during the unraveling.

That will be emotionally satisfying, but essentially worthless, unless the power shifts down to average people and remains there.  If we fail in that task, then the elites will bide their time and retake their current power positions. It sucks, but it's been inevitable so far.  After all, Alphas are Alphas and Betas are Betas.

Was it easy to find a committed royalist after the Revolution? A slaveowner after the Civil War? A committed communist after World War II?

The Republican establishment had trouble getting any of their people near the White House once the Tea Party took over. They are not looking like they will be the dominant force anymore.

I’m not saying the elites will not be a problem. It is just that the high is rough on the old values.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-13-2020, 05:38 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: I dare you -- I double-dog dare you -- no I triple-dog dare you with a wolverine on the side -- to name such a group. 

Black Lives Matter and Antifa are the most obvious groups that you should be aware of and should have taken into account before you open your mouth and dare me to point them out to you today. OK LIBERAL DUMB FUCK, YOU CAN GO AHEAD AND JUMP ON THE BANDWAGON WITH THEM, What's so good about them? I know how smart you are and now is the time for people like you to show AMERICANS how smart you are? Are you to dumb to realize that this is the time the liberals to have prove their worth to the greater American society that the Republican party pretty much represents these days? Hollywood may be important to the immature and irrational and glamor struck emotional twits who tend to vote Democratic these days. So, what are the Democrats about other than appeasing a bunch of worthless college punks, ghetto slugs, criminals and low life's that America see's and knows exist in much higher numbers with as. if not more destructive behavior characteristics than the white groups that you guys view as somehow being more powerful and influential than them these days.

So, what's good about them that's worth losing your home, your tax base, your police force, your financial institutions and public assistance, your public schools, your fire departments, your medical response services and so forth. You're an idiot to me. Bob's an idiot. Eric is an idiot. Dave is an idiot. I know that's hard to swallow but it's the truth So, what's so good about liberal groups of cop haters., law haters, white haters, man haters, America haters, Trump haters, Republican haters and who has the authority to say the liberal haters don't have the right to directly engage these liberal groups and destroy all of them? Dude, you are so ignorant and blind that you don't seem to understand how close to you are to being like the Nazi and Bolshevik supporters. Like I said, you better wise up and start thinking more clearly and paying more attention to signs because things are going start getting more and more serious? As far as Minneapolis and it's value to the rest of Minnesota, the only people who would be crying over its loss are the liberals who are dumb enough to buy an over priced condo or over priced home in a trendy blue area or an upper end neighborhood and continue to pay higher taxes for the lack of leadership and the ugly results that we've all just witnessed here and across the entire country. Now, if you are nice enough to sacrifice a portion of your social entitlements to appease and make them happy that's cool with me. The Democratic party and it's infinite wisdom is free to vote to do that as a means to save their asses and spare themselves from feeling the misery of those who lost everything in Minneapolis.

[Bob Butler 54]

CNN reports that Fox News publishes digitally altered and misleading images of Seattle demonstrations

Among other things, they report what happened in Seattle while showing events filmed in Minnesota.

I guess living in the Fox bubble does cause a misunderstanding of what is really going on.  They deliberately try to deceive.

I would respond to Classic that Black Lives Matter's purpose is to end centuries of racist violence, not to continue racism.  Anifa's purpose is to counter racist demonstrations, not to promote racism.  As usual, you show a complete misunderstanding of your rivals motive.  It is easier to create straw men and rant against them.  Not much to do with reality.

[Classic-Xer]

(06-13-2020, 03:13 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: CNN reports that Fox News publishes digitally altered and misleading images of Seattle demonstrations

Among other things, they report what happened in Seattle while showing events filmed in Minnesota.

I guess living in the Fox bubble does cause a misunderstanding of what is really going on.  They deliberately try to deceive.

I would respond to Classic that Black Lives Matter's purpose is to end centuries of racist violence, not to continue racism.  Anifa's purpose is to counter racist demonstrations, not to promote racism.  As usual, you show a complete misunderstanding of your rivals motive.  It is easier to create straw men and rant against them.  Not much to do with reality. 

CNN??? Do you know for sure that racism was a factor in the latest cop killing or do you automatically assume that it was like every other clueless liberal these days? Yep. It is easier to create straw men and rant against them. You should know, you're guilty of doing it. So, how much violence, looting and destruction of American property have we seen the KKK and Neo Nazi's do lately. Personally, I think you and the other clowns are doing a wonderful job making America a more racist and more lawless country  You seem to be more than able to turn a blind eye to reality.