America 'staring down the barrel of martial law', Oregon senator warns

[lwko]

America 'staring down the barrel of martial law', Oregon senator warns

https://news.yahoo.com/america-staring-d...48069.html

[pbrower2a]

(07-26-2020, 07:34 AM)lwko Wrote: America 'staring down the barrel of martial law', Oregon senator warns

https://news.yahoo.com/america-staring-d...48069.html

Martial law is possible two ways now. One is the self-coup that destroys the authority of any State or city that opposes the President's philosophy and agenda. Another is something unimaginable until recently; a military coup that overthrows an irresponsible President on the brink of dictatorship.  

We are close to having a dictatorship. From Washington to Obama, US Presidents have recognized that they have no powers not enumerated in the Constitution that Congress does not really delegate to them. Trump has taken such powers  without asking on matters never recognized by Congress. Presidents ordinarily get the powers that Congress delegates, and those are far more extensive in an economic meltdown (Obama for a short time, FDR for longer) or a major war (Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, Truman). A President who has failed to take the powers that Congress might have granted him for meeting a danger as severe as the Plague of 2020 has sought dictatorial powers for squelching political expressions that have full sanction in the First Amendment without seeking Congressional support.  

A secret police that enforces ideology or personal authority of the Leadership is typical of despotism or dictatorship. Donald Trump has tried to transform America into a personal dictatorship on behalf of something less than even a plurality. If the rest of us fail to go along, then we will be broken. One culture, that of a melding of two regional and homogeneous cultures allegedly free from cosmopolitan rootlessness (and less cosmopolitan than the others) because it less identifies with immigrant roots. (This includes people compelled to remember that their ancestors had no choice in arriving into the nightmare of slavery). Even the old colonial elite of New England are more aware of their ancestral immigration than people that have little idea of their origins. 

Most of us must decide on our own what it means to be an American. If someone claims to be an American, then he likely is. Some people may be uneasy about the way in which they became Americans -- cast-offs by other nations, illegal immigrants as ancestors, survivors of decimated tribes that once roamed the plains or forests freely, and odd and unlikely mixtures... but here we are.

So what isn't American? Association with ideologies that would destroy the connection of people, however shaky their ancestral connections are to this nation, to America. Thus Marxism-Leninism and fascism in all forms (including Ku Kluxism). Despotism of the sort that our Founding Fathers waged a war against for the achievement of independence, whether that despotism was by George III or Donald Trump.

[zdc]

If the government lied about Iraq, why would you trust them about anything else?

[David Horn]

(01-20-2021, 07:57 AM)zdc Wrote: If the government lied about Iraq, why would you trust them about anything else?

"the government" didn't lie about Iraq. That was the doing of a discrete and rabid neocon faction within the GOP.  Here's a link to who they are/were.

[DenverChick]

Americans scream tyranny is wonderful,
but Americans are unable to explain why Cubans try to escape even though Cuba has gun control and free
medical care.

[Classic-Xer]

(07-26-2020, 10:34 AM)pbrower2a Wrote:

(07-26-2020, 07:34 AM)lwko Wrote: America 'staring down the barrel of martial law', Oregon senator warns

https://news.yahoo.com/america-staring-d...48069.html

Martial law is possible two ways now. One is the self-coup that destroys the authority of any State or city that opposes the President's philosophy and agenda. Another is something unimaginable until recently; a military coup that overthrows an irresponsible President on the brink of dictatorship.  

We are close to having a dictatorship. From Washington to Obama, US Presidents have recognized that they have no powers not enumerated in the Constitution that Congress does not really delegate to them. Trump has taken such powers  without asking on matters never recognized by Congress. Presidents ordinarily get the powers that Congress delegates, and those are far more extensive in an economic meltdown (Obama for a short time, FDR for longer) or a major war (Lincoln, Wilson, FDR, Truman). A President who has failed to take the powers that Congress might have granted him for meeting a danger as severe as the Plague of 2020 has sought dictatorial powers for squelching political expressions that have full sanction in the First Amendment without seeking Congressional support.  

A secret police that enforces ideology or personal authority of the Leadership is typical of despotism or dictatorship. Donald Trump has tried to transform America into a personal dictatorship on behalf of something less than even a plurality. If the rest of us fail to go along, then we will be broken. One culture, that of a melding of two regional and homogeneous cultures allegedly free from cosmopolitan rootlessness (and less cosmopolitan than the others) because it less identifies with immigrant roots. (This includes people compelled to remember that their ancestors had no choice in arriving into the nightmare of slavery). Even the old colonial elite of New England are more aware of their ancestral immigration than people that have little idea of their origins. 

Most of us must decide on our own what it means to be an American. If someone claims to be an American, then he likely is. Some people may be uneasy about the way in which they became Americans -- cast-offs by other nations, illegal immigrants as ancestors, survivors of decimated tribes that once roamed the plains or forests freely, and odd and unlikely mixtures... but here we are.

So what isn't American? Association with ideologies that would destroy the connection of people, however shaky their ancestral connections are to this nation, to America. Thus Marxism-Leninism and fascism in all forms (including Ku Kluxism). Despotism of the sort that our Founding Fathers waged a war against for the achievement of independence, whether that despotism was by George III or Donald Trump.

Well, we are already under a left wing dictatorship right now. One that you and others elected and support today. We aren't officially at war yet but we will be within four years. So, who is going to protect you from us when the war starts? Biden's not going to be able to protect you because Biden will be to busy trying to protect himself and the foolish Democrats who started a war with America that they cannot win without Chinese support. Do we have the right to remove a Left Wing regime/dictatorship by force or allow others (barbarians) to remove it? You are so far out in left field you don't even see what I've been talking about and warning you about for years. Are you an American? I don't think you're much of an American. A true American wouldn't support a fraudulent election with illegal changes to election laws. You're not one worth dying for or sacrificing anything of value to support these days? You better start paying attention and you better start thinking like an American and start thinking in terms of how Americans are going to start reacting to the shit Democrats pass/pull and how Democrats are going to be treated and punished by Americans of all kinds these days?

[Classic-Xer]

(01-20-2021, 05:23 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 07:57 AM)zdc Wrote: If the government lied about Iraq, why would you trust them about anything else?

"the government" didn't lie about Iraq. That was the doing of a discrete and rabid neocon faction within the GOP.  Here's a link to who they are/were.

You forget that a group of Democrats voted for war with Iraq before running against the war in Iraq. The Democrats are all shit people dude and we are going to force you to accept it and watch as you go down with them.

[nclovers]

Banning vaping might be acceptable if everything wasn't already illegal.

Bombing Iran might be okay if the US wasn't at war with the entire world.

Increasing the debt might be understandable if the USA wasn't bankrupt.

[pbrower2a]

(01-24-2021, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 05:23 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 07:57 AM)zdc Wrote: If the government lied about Iraq, why would you trust them about anything else?

"the government" didn't lie about Iraq. That was the doing of a discrete and rabid neocon faction within the GOP.  Here's a link to who they are/were.

You forget that a group of Democrats voted for war with Iraq before running against the war in Iraq. The Democrats are all  shit people dude and we are going to force you to accept it and watch as you go down with them.

Recall that Henry Kissinger said of the Iran-Iraq war in the 1980's that he wished that both could lose. Both regimes were infamous for their low valuation of human life. 

After Iraq invaded Kuwait, Senator Bob Dole said that he couldn't imagine anyone to whom he would be more delighted to send Saddam Hussein than to the Lublyanka (KGB headquarters in Moscow). Gassing the Kurds was not good for developing good will among Americans on either side of the political spectrum.

I doubt that many Americans have any regrets about the hanging of Satan Hussein and his closest associates.

[David Horn]

(01-24-2021, 10:52 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 05:23 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 07:57 AM)zdc Wrote: If the government lied about Iraq, why would you trust them about anything else?

"the government" didn't lie about Iraq. That was the doing of a discrete and rabid neocon faction within the GOP.  Here's a link to who they are/were.

You forget that a group of Democrats voted for war with Iraq before running against the war in Iraq. The Democrats are all  shit people dude and we are going to force you to accept it and watch as you go down with them.

You are conflating the lied-to with the liars.  The lied-to may be guilty of being naïve or even feckless, but the liars are the truly guilty parties.  And believe me, I'm not defending the Dems who should have known better and especially not the ones who actually did.  It was still primarily a GOP hitjob.

[David Horn]

(01-24-2021, 09:21 PM)DenverChick Wrote: Americans scream tyranny is wonderful, but Americans are unable to explain why Cubans try to escape even though Cuba has gun control and free
medical care.

And who would these apologists be, exactly?

[random3]

Americans hate freedom with a passion.

[pbrower2a]

(01-25-2021, 07:26 PM)random3 Wrote: Americans hate freedom with a passion.

Everybody seems to have a different idea of what constitutes freedom. The Commies presented Marxism-Leninism as freedom from capitalist exploitation. Even the Nazis presented their cause as freedom from the "enslavement" of the Versailles Treaty and Jewish "machinations".      

Please define freedom, and then perhaps someone might talk with you.

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-26-2021, 07:02 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: Please define freedom, and then perhaps someone might talk with you.

Let me take a stab at it.  

Freedom is the ability to do as you please without interference from anybody, including the government.  The autocratic powers, the Nazi and Communists, did not live up to this.

The Founding Fathers Wrote:We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Now if you do any of the above things, the government is telling you what to do.  If you are providing a common defense, you have to obey orders.  If you are establishing justice, you can’t rob people.  If you are promoting the general welfare, you have to pay taxes.  Still, all these restrictions on freedom can be reasonable.

It is just that all folks don’t agree on what is reasonable.

[Bob Butler 54]

Continuing on, if you require meat packing plats to be considered essential businesses, some people would think it reasonable that the government make sure the plants are as safe as possible and contribute funds towards making them safe. Some people think it reasonable to regulate derivatives which could lead to economic collapse. Some people thought that owning slaves was reasonable. Some people thought it was unreasonable for FDR to regulate the economy, to try to stop the ever worsening series of depressions. In all those cases, there was a difference in opinion as to what was reasonable. I would just say that turning theory suggests that if you ignore problems they will grow, that eventually a crisis will develop, and the problems will be addressed.

And, yes, these examples are slanted. Examples of the government being considered unreasonable in limiting freedom could reasonably exist.

[Lady3]

WTF?

Defending freedom doesn't mean that you are a Commie.

The government is not your mommy.

The government is not your daddy.

Freedom is the absence of government.

Someone who smokes weed near you is not tyranny.

Tyranny is when the government says that you can't smoke pot.

When Libertarians say free speech is good, traitors who attack Libertarians are not defending freedom.

Those who scream Trump is a holy god for supporting wars, debt, and tyranny sound like hypocrites when they turn around and say Obama was evil for embracing wars, debt, and the police state.

If you think Trump should declare martial law and use the military to shoot protesters, what will you say when Biden uses the military to shoot protesters?

Can't you defend your own property?

Why not just end the tyranny that causes people to protest?

Do you think freedom doesn't benefit you?

Do you really think that you are exempt from the police state?

What country is this?

Why fight Nazis and Commies and then become Nazis and Commies?

[David Horn]

(01-26-2021, 08:09 PM)Lady3 Wrote: ... When Libertarians say free speech is good, traitors who attack Libertarians are not defending freedom.

This sounds like the rant of a teenager.  How old are you anyway?

[nyballot]

If you said that the government was wiretapping your phone in 1999, everybody would have called you a nutjob.

Now if you say that the government is wiretapping your phone, no one cares.

How can Americans sleep at night now or look in a mirror without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

[David Horn]

(01-28-2021, 07:00 PM)nyballot Wrote: If you said that the government was wiretapping your phone in 1999, everybody would have called you a nutjob.

Now if you say that the government is wiretapping your phone, no one cares.

How can Americans sleep at night now or look in a mirror without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

You should hook-up with lady3. You're made for each other.

[Einzige]

(01-28-2021, 07:00 PM)nyballot Wrote: If you said that the government was wiretapping your phone in 1999, everybody would have called you a nutjob.

Now if you say that the government is wiretapping your phone, no one cares.

How can Americans sleep at night now or look in a mirror without feeling disgusted and ashamed?

Not only the government. Google tracks your metadata and your smartphone logs your cookies and your Alexa listens to your conversations and your SmartTV measures your viewing habits...