The Partisan Divide on Issues

[Classic-Xer]

(01-19-2021, 11:32 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 03:52 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: The way I see it, one party stands for core American values and beliefs and centers more on national issues while the other mainly stands for itself, whatever it presumes to be the most popular among its groups and whatever it determines is most needed for it to win or survive at a particular time. Is Trump worse than Bumbling Biden and his token VP/princess? I don't think so myself. I think Trump was better for America than both of them put together myself. I think the Left Wing media pulled off a major stunt by taking advantage of whatever trust was left in the Democratic at a vulnerable time in American history like it did leading up to Obama's election and a lot of them are going end up dead and broke because of it this time around myself. I don't care if some American someplace does whatever it takes to get rid of some oligarch who seems to think/believe he/she is more rich and powerful than the American government and the American people. Dude, I'm one of millions of customers or one of millions of hardcore Americans who could start knocking down Verizon towers or start terminating contracts pertaining to land use and destabilize and bankrupt them tomorrow. It would only take the assassination of one rich and powerful oligarch who is broadly viewed as being above the law and the  destruction of a major corporation or two broadly viewed as being the same  by America to prompt a massive withdrawal and tank NASDAQ again. I see the extension of American growth and opportunity and freedom with the Trump party. I see a controlled system based on preference, the elimination of the three mentioned and a prolonging of the death with Biden's/Cheney's party. The Trump party represents American progress and what America has been about throughout the ages since its conception. The Democrats are the clingers like the Democrats have always been throughout the history of the party.

The way I see it, the rural cavalier culture and the urban roundheads both contributed mightily to the US culture.  It is just that come the crisis, the conservative culture winds up yielding its most abusive Agricultural Age traits.  The assumption that they will come out on top this time has no basis that I can see.

Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately. So, what are you going to do about all the racists blacks and groups of Marxist believers and the corrupt system that exists in Washington DC? How are you going to reprogram and reeducate all them and reverse the coarse and change the beliefs that you and others more or less seem to share, support and continue to advance and instill up to this point? You can't, I don't see how you can at this point. So, there's going to be a major clash and a national split that's going to result in the Democrats being left holding the bag and left to be over run by the barbarians.

[David Horn]

(01-19-2021, 11:31 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 09:10 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 04:29 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote: If the government is involved, it's a government matter and he is legally entitled to a defense.

Apparently not.  No one wants to be associated with him just now.  As of last night, no one was on his defense team.  He apparently can't even get people to come to his going away party.  Perhaps he should call on the capitol rioters again?

Well. If you make your living in politics or off politics, I guess that you have no other choice than to go along with the Democrats and they're corporate allies/sponsors at this point. If you don't, it's different. The moment Biden takes power. Trump will be a free man who is entitled to all the rights and legal protections that you and I are entitled to as US citizens. I assume that you would prefer to live out your life and die as an American citizen, or would you prefer to speed up that process and die sooner as a Biden/Harris supporter or a Democratic supporter as America begins to turn and revolt  against them?

I'm sure Bob will respond in time, but I'll put in my $0.02 now.  

The sociologists are having a heyday.  This is the Lost Cause all over again. The question this time: will they be given a free pass, as the Lost Cause certainly was, or has the progressive faction finally learned its lesson.  Bad behavior can't be ignored unless bringing it back is the intent.  And let's not forget the fact that this is the third attempt at racial healing and the second insurrection since the colonials fought the British. The last time, the South lost the war and won the peace.  If that happens again, there will be hell to pay in the 2T.

[David Horn]

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately...

Yes, we eliminated slavery, but Jim Crow is still alive and well.  That you can't see it only tells me you aren't in a place where it applies.  How big a minority population do you have in your town?

[Classic-Xer]

(01-19-2021, 11:15 AM)David Horn Wrote: And those core American Values are what, exactly?

Classic-Xer Wrote:Is Trump worse than Bumbling Biden and his token VP/princess? I don't think so myself. I think Trump was better for America than both of them put together myself. I think the Left Wing media pulled off a major stunt by taking advantage of whatever trust was left in the Democratic at a vulnerable time in American history like it did leading up to Obama's election and a lot of them are going end up dead and broke because of it this time around myself.

Again, platitudes are not reasons.  Putting a little meat on these bare bones is what I'm asking.

Classic-Xer Wrote:I don't care if some American someplace does whatever it takes to get rid of some oligarch who seems to think/believe he/she is more rich and powerful than the American government and the American people. Dude, I'm one of millions of customers or one of millions of hardcore Americans who could start knocking down Verizon towers or start terminating contracts pertaining to land use and destabilize and bankrupt them tomorrow. It would only take the assassination of one rich and powerful oligarch who is broadly viewed as being above the law and the  destruction of a major corporation or two broadly viewed as being the same  by America to prompt a massive withdrawal and tank NASDAQ again.

I'm no fan of the Uber-class either, but why back Trump: a certified member of that group himself.  There is no greater suck-up to the rich and powerful than a person like Trump who desperately wants wants into their inner circle.

Classic-Xer Wrote:I see the extension of American growth and opportunity and freedom with the Trump party. I see a controlled system based on preference, the elimination of the three mentioned and a prolonging of the death with Biden's/Cheney's party. The Trump party represents American progress and what America has been about throughout the ages since its conception. The Democrats are the clingers like the Democrats have always been throughout the history of the party.

What progress? We're nowhere right now.

I'll make it easy for you to understand core American values, how many Americans are willing to fight and die to keep the American Constitution and the American system in place? How many Democratic people are willing to die to stop climate change or die for abortion or die for illegal immigration or die for fascism or communism/socialism or die for the world or die for Joe Biden or his token VP or die for the Democratic party these days?

The blacks have been free for over a hundred and fifty years and completely free (no longer legally separated in some states) for nearly sixty year. Women have been free for about a hundred and completely free for nearly sixty years. The gays and lesbians are free as well. As a matter of fact, the American country is so free that there is little to no need for an American left these days. That's the progress that you don't see and the reason why we're nowhere at the moment with the fate of the Democrats placed in their own hands right now.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-20-2021, 05:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately...

Yes, we eliminated slavery, but Jim Crow is still alive and well.  That you can't see it only tells me you aren't in a place where it applies.  How big a minority population do you have in your town?

I'd say about half of the public school population is minority these days. You still have laws in place that restrict minorities these days. I'm not talking about economic hurdles or the inequity that exists between classes these days. I'm talking about laws that restrict purely on the basis of race these days.

[Bob Butler 54]

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately. So, what are you going to do about all the racists blacks and groups of Marxist believers and the corrupt system that exists in Washington DC? How are you going to reprogram and reeducate all them and reverse the coarse and change the beliefs that you and others more or less seem to share, support and continue to advance and instill up to this point? You can't, I don't see how you can at this point. So, there's going to be a major clash and a national split that's going to result in the Democrats being left holding the bag and left to be over run by the barbarians.

We are going through another period of reducing racial oppression, such as the US Civil War and the civil rights movement.  The result now will crate another improvement.  There may or may not be another time where it becomes an issue. Racism in America is stubborn.

Racism, sexism and elitism have created an extreme division of wealth which will have to be addressed in the near future.  These are all part of the class structure which benefits white males and long time residents at the expense of women, the minorities and the working man.  It is about time to push back.

There are no Marxist believers of note in DC.  I’m not worried about it.  That is your delusion.  You seem to equate helping the American people with autocratic failures.  You seem to think the Constitution doesn’t include as one of its purposes to ‘promote the general Welfare’.

For a long time I have been predicting a regeneracy and the fading of conservative values.  Worldviews are stubborn.  They do not change unless something like the destruction of Atlanta in the US Civil War or Hiroshima in World War II.  The worldviews must fail blatantly before people are ready to evaluate them.  Such a failure of values generally occurs only in a crisis, causing many people to change values together.  

If you combined the COVID deaths, the economic ruin resulting, the Black Lives Matter protests and the Capitol Riots together, as of just a few weeks ago It seemed obvious that these things combined hadn’t reached the Atlanta / Hiroshima level of impact.  A lot of people still clung to the conservative values.

Today?  Trump had trouble finding people to attend his goodbye at Andrews.  There is no support for the insurrectionists, even among the conservatives.  The insurrectionists themselves did not show up at Andrews, waving the flags they waved on January 6, showing support for Trump.  Trump was diminished, depressed, alone.

Were the various problems at last adding up to an Atlanta or Hiroshima?  Were Biden’s holding of a national mourning, his rejection of anti science, his support for civil rights, his attempts to restore the economy, his condemnation of politicians and media lying, at last adding up to a doubt of the conservative worldview?  It is too soon to celebrate, but my long time prediction of a failure of conservative values seems to be starting.  

Not everyone considers the failures of conservative values as having added up to cause an honest reevaluation.  Not everyone will.  But enough.

***

Watching MSNBC tonight, one of the guest experts was a doctor from Boston University.  She mentioned that Fenway Park was being used as a COVID vaccination center.  Now, the show was being produced in 30 Rock, in New York City.  There was almost an objection.  After consideration, it was considered allowable under the circumstances to mention Fenway Park favorably.  

Normalcy?

[Classic-Xer]

(01-19-2021, 11:32 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: The way I see it, the rural cavalier culture and the urban roundheads both contributed mightily to the US culture.  It is just that come the crisis, the conservative culture winds up yielding its most abusive Agricultural Age traits.  The assumption that they will come out on top this time has no basis that I can see.

The agricultural age ended over a 100 years ago. We are nearing the end of the industrial age today. So, what abusive traits does Democratic culture have to either yield or more or less die for today.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-21-2021, 12:12 AM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately. So, what are you going to do about all the racists blacks and groups of Marxist believers and the corrupt system that exists in Washington DC? How are you going to reprogram and reeducate all them and reverse the coarse and change the beliefs that you and others more or less seem to share, support and continue to advance and instill up to this point? You can't, I don't see how you can at this point. So, there's going to be a major clash and a national split that's going to result in the Democrats being left holding the bag and left to be over run by the barbarians.

We are going through another period of reducing racial oppression, such as the US Civil War and the civil rights movement.  The result now will crate another improvement.  There may or may not be another time where it becomes an issue.  Racism in America is stubborn.

Racism, sexism and elitism have created an extreme division of wealth which will have to be addressed in the near future.  These are all part of the class structure which benefits white males and long time residents at the expense of women, the minorities and the working man.  It is about time to push back.

There are no Marxist believers of note in DC.  I’m not worried about it.  That is your delusion.  You seem to equate helping the American people with autocratic failures.  You seem to think the Constitution doesn’t include as one of its purposes to ‘promote the general Welfare’.

For a long time I have been predicting a regeneracy and the fading of conservative values.  Worldviews are stubborn.  They do not change unless something like the destruction of Atlanta in the US Civil War or Hiroshima in World War II.  The worldviews must fail blatantly before people are ready to evaluate them.  Such a failure of values generally occurs only in a crisis, causing many people to change values together.  

If you combined the COVID deaths, the economic ruin resulting, the Black Lives Matter protests and the Capitol Riots together, as of just a few weeks ago It seemed obvious that these things combined hadn’t reached the Atlanta / Hiroshima level of impact.  A lot of people still clung to the conservative values.

Today?  Trump had trouble finding people to attend his goodbye at Andrews.  There is no support for the insurrectionists, even among the conservatives.  The insurrectionists themselves did not show up at Andrews, waving the flags they waved on January 6, showing support for Trump.  Trump was diminished, depressed, alone.

Were the various problems at last adding up to an Atlanta or Hiroshima?  Were Biden’s holding of a national mourning, his rejection of anti science, his support for civil rights, his attempts to restore the economy, his condemnation of politicians and media lying, at last adding up to a doubt of the conservative worldview?  It is too soon to celebrate, but my long time prediction of a failure of conservative values seems to be starting.  

Not everyone considers the failures of conservative values as having added up to cause an honest reevaluation.  Not everyone will.  But enough.

***

Watching MSNBC tonight, one of the guest experts was a doctor from Boston University.  She mentioned that Fenway Park was being used as a COVID vaccination center.  Now, the show was being produced in 30 Rock, in New York City.  There was almost an objection.  After consideration, it was considered allowable under the circumstances to mention Fenway Park favorably.  

Normalcy?

The Democrats are directly participating in some acts of racial profiling and racial oppression right now. I'm not concerned about it at the moment knowing the country is about 70% percent white these day. To be honest, I don't have a problem with whites becoming more racial oriented and scaring the shit out of racist blacks with racist symbols and calling them niggers and so forth. You reap what you sow applies. You seem to be buying into the media hype and seem to be placing your faith in a 78 year old Democrat who has dementia who should have never been elected in the first place and a token VP who has no right to be in the position that she is in either. Aren't you the one who believe systems have to fail for beliefs/values to be discarded? Well, it looks like the Democrats are perfectly positioned to do that right now. At least Pence was honest enough to admit on a national stage that he really had no right to be in his position either. I don't know why the GOP establishment is sticking their necks out and placing what's left of their party at risk being destroyed on their behalf. I assume that their eyes and ears and minds work as well as ours and they have access to the same information as we do as well. I assume that there is a helluva lot more money involved in their decisions than there is involved with our decisions. I assume they can read the writing on the wall and understand its over for them anyway at this point and the only option left is cling to the Democrats.

[David Horn]

(01-20-2021, 11:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'll make it easy for you to understand core American values, how many Americans are willing to fight and die to keep the American Constitution and the American system in place? How many Democratic people are willing to die to stop climate change or die for abortion or die for illegal immigration or die for fascism or communism/socialism or die for the world or die for Joe Biden or his token VP or die for the Democratic party these days?

The blacks have been free for over a hundred and fifty years and completely free (no longer legally separated in some states) for nearly sixty year. Women have been free for about a hundred and completely free for nearly sixty years. The gays and lesbians are free as well. As a matter of fact, the American country is so free that there is little to no need for an American left these days. That's the progress that you don't see and the reason why we're nowhere at the moment with the fate of the Democrats placed in their own hands right now.

Your grip on history is lacking. Jim Crow was still around officially in the '80s, and still is around today, though more subtle. If I'm black, I always pay more for credit, and have a harder time buying a house in a good neighborhood. Redlining is gone ... but it isn't. That's only one of a hundred topics we can explore on this topic.

[David Horn]

(01-21-2021, 12:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 05:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately...

Yes, we eliminated slavery, but Jim Crow is still alive and well.  That you can't see it only tells me you aren't in a place where it applies.  How big a minority population do you have in your town?

I'd say about half of the public school population is minority these days. You still have laws in place that restrict minorities these days. I'm not talking about economic hurdles or the inequity that exists between classes these days. I'm talking about laws that restrict purely on the basis of race these days.

Schools are actually more segregated today than they were in the pre-bussing days. And crappy schools exist where the "less desirables" live ...as they always have.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-21-2021, 02:19 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 11:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'll make it easy for you to understand core American values, how many Americans are willing to fight and die to keep the American Constitution and the American system in place? How many Democratic people are willing to die to stop climate change or die for abortion or die for illegal immigration or die for fascism or communism/socialism or die for the world or die for Joe Biden or his token VP or die for the Democratic party these days?

The blacks have been free for over a hundred and fifty years and completely free (no longer legally separated in some states) for nearly sixty year. Women have been free for about a hundred and completely free for nearly sixty years. The gays and lesbians are free as well. As a matter of fact, the American country is so free that there is little to no need for an American left these days. That's the progress that you don't see and the reason why we're nowhere at the moment with the fate of the Democrats placed in their own hands right now.

Your grip on history is lacking.  Jim Crow was still around officially in the '80s, and still is around today, though more subtle. If I'm black, I always pay more for credit, and have a harder time buying a house in a good neighborhood. Redlining is gone ... but it isn't. That's only one of a hundred topics we can explore on this topic.

I wasn't alive during Jim Crow. I know there was a lot of black vs white during my preschool years. I also know my parent left St Paul and moved to the suburbs during those years. If I had a son who got his tooth knocked out by some ghetto kid at school and a daughter who was beaten up be a group of them too, I'd pull the plug and move to a better place too. I'm glad that I'm not a milliennial who forked out a chunk on a house in Minneapolis who is stuck with a mortgage on a house that is worth less right now.

[pbrower2a]

(01-23-2021, 12:30 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-21-2021, 02:19 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 11:11 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'll make it easy for you to understand core American values, how many Americans are willing to fight and die to keep the American Constitution and the American system in place? How many Democratic people are willing to die to stop climate change or die for abortion or die for illegal immigration or die for fascism or communism/socialism or die for the world or die for Joe Biden or his token VP or die for the Democratic party these days?

The blacks have been free for over a hundred and fifty years and completely free (no longer legally separated in some states) for nearly sixty year. Women have been free for about a hundred and completely free for nearly sixty years. The gays and lesbians are free as well. As a matter of fact, the American country is so free that there is little to no need for an American left these days. That's the progress that you don't see and the reason why we're nowhere at the moment with the fate of the Democrats placed in their own hands right now.

Your grip on history is lacking.  Jim Crow was still around officially in the '80s, and still is around today, though more subtle. If I'm black, I always pay more for credit, and have a harder time buying a house in a good neighborhood. Redlining is gone ... but it isn't. That's only one of a hundred topics we can explore on this topic.

I wasn't alive during Jim Crow. I know there was a lot of black vs white during my preschool years. I also know my parent left St Paul and moved to the suburbs during those years. If I had a son who got his tooth knocked out by some ghetto kid at school and a daughter who was beaten up be a group of them too, I'd pull the plug and move to a better place too. I'm glad that I'm not a milliennial who forked out a chunk on a house in Minneapolis who is stuck with a mortgage on a house that is worth less right now.

Well, I was born a bit more than ten years after the Holocaust ended, but I can certainly draw some conclusions. As someone almost half German or Swiss in ancestry I must be careful to choose connections to Germany carefully. OK, Bach is wonderful and Nazis are dreadful. I am reasonably certain that if I look carefully enough in genealogy that leads into WWII-era Germany I would find seventh-cousins or so who perpetrated the Holocaust. I have no desire to discover that I am a seventh cousin twice removed to Herrmann Goering. 

OK... OK... OK. As a German-American (or about half so) I probably have more cultural connections to east-European Jews than do practically any other gentiles. Morals? Take away the kashrut dietary laws and Judaism is almost pure morality. If I had to choose between converting to Judaism or becoming a Nazi I would convert to Judaism because Judaism requires far fewer moral or cultural changes. When I moved from Michigan to the San Francisco Bay Area because of a transfer of my father, I found that the people to which I most easily got along were Jews and East Asians. No, I am not half-Japanese, Korean, or Chinese. The other half is largely English, Welsh, Dutch, French (Huguenot) or Scots-Irish. 

...That you were not around during Jim Crow does not exempt you from finding it an abomination  any more than being born after the Holocaust exempts me from finding it an abomination. I have no use for slavery, religious bigotry, or witch-killings. 

Are black thugs any nicer than white thugs? I have been a substitute teacher, and I have never seen the school administration show any tolerance for thuggish behavior. Your precious white children are more at risk from white thugs (yes, there are white gangs, and they are just as nasty as non-white gangs) because those gangs want to recruit your kids to join them and do thuggish deeds. 

You do not want your sons joining Proud Bois or Boogaloo Boys. Really.

[Eric the Green]

(01-23-2021, 01:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: You do not want your sons joining Proud Bois or Boogaloo Boys. Really.

Are you sure Classic Xer is not himself a member of Proud Boys? He talks like he is.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-25-2021, 11:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-23-2021, 01:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: You do not want your sons joining Proud Bois or Boogaloo Boys. Really.

Are you sure Classic Xer is not himself a member of Proud Boys? He talks like he is.

No. I'm a member of a much larger group of American citizens that's largely idle at the moment. Like I've mentioned, the ball is in your court and the fate of the Democratic party has been placed in their own hands and that's the way it should be right now. Welcome to the 4T.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-21-2021, 02:22 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-21-2021, 12:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 05:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately...

Yes, we eliminated slavery, but Jim Crow is still alive and well.  That you can't see it only tells me you aren't in a place where it applies.  How big a minority population do you have in your town?

I'd say about half of the public school population is minority these days. You still have laws in place that restrict minorities these days. I'm not talking about economic hurdles or the inequity that exists between classes these days. I'm talking about laws that restrict purely on the basis of race these days.

Schools are actually more segregated today than they were in the pre-bussing days. And crappy schools exist where the "less desirables" live ...as they always have.

My daughter says the high school is pretty much racially segregated by choice these days with the exception of those who are in sports.

[pbrower2a]

(01-26-2021, 01:36 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-21-2021, 02:22 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-21-2021, 12:05 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-20-2021, 05:17 PM)David Horn Wrote:

(01-19-2021, 11:47 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: Slavery has been resolved and Jim Crow has been resolved. This dispute that exists is a cultural and economic and class related dispute between American culture and the Liberal/Democratic elite for the most part over issues directly related to them and the use of their power and the issues related to urban Democratic culture which has a lot of internal problems and ain't been looking so great these days/lately...

Yes, we eliminated slavery, but Jim Crow is still alive and well.  That you can't see it only tells me you aren't in a place where it applies.  How big a minority population do you have in your town?

I'd say about half of the public school population is minority these days. You still have laws in place that restrict minorities these days. I'm not talking about economic hurdles or the inequity that exists between classes these days. I'm talking about laws that restrict purely on the basis of race these days.

Schools are actually more segregated today than they were in the pre-bussing days. And crappy schools exist where the "less desirables" live ...as they always have.

My daughter says the high school is pretty much racially segregated by choice these days with the exception of those who are in sports.

The more blatant segregation is between the smart kids and the not-so-smart kids. The smarter (largely middle-class) white kids see themselves having more in common with America's Model Minorities than with people that those smart white kids see as 'losers' such as dopers, dullards, and gang groupies. I have seen the pattern as a substitute teacher, and I can see behaviors that suggest a drop-out (like high rates of absence, bad grades, and disciplinary problems). In one school where I got many assignments (it was a middle school, and you can imagine what a non-nonsense teacher I am)... I could tell what class periods would be trouble. The ones with the most absences, and the ones in which students were behind the usual level of achievement. In one class, "Transition Math" (pre-algebra), the kids are fine if they are in 7th or 8th grade. Kids taking that in ninth grade (sure that is high school, but I have been there) are often trouble. It's not the design of the math textbook that is the problem. Before I give up on explaining a few things: criminality. As we all know, criminality is for stupid people.

[Bob Butler 54]

I predicted a struggle to control what is left of the Republican Party. There seem to be three factions: Trumpism, the establishment and the true conservatives such as the Lincoln Project. Originally, Trump had the Republican base voters and was using it to blackmail the rest of the party into line. Shortly after the Capitol Insurrection I thought less of Trump’s faction. A bunch of people were mad at them.

Now, the Trump faction seems resurgent. The establishment is taking Trump’s ability to primary out elected officials seriously. They seem ready to latch on to extremism to avoid this fate.

This seems a bad choice for the Republicans. They might hold on to primary victories this way, but they still have to win the general election. I don’t see the general population thrilled by extremism. If the Democrats manage to attack to crisis problems decently and the Republicans become ever so extreme, the current extremely narrow political balance should head more the Democrat’s way.

[pbrower2a]

(01-26-2021, 01:27 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:

(01-25-2021, 11:50 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(01-23-2021, 01:07 AM)pbrower2a Wrote: You do not want your sons joining Proud Bois or Boogaloo Boys. Really.

Are you sure Classic Xer is not himself a member of Proud Boys? He talks like he is.

No. I'm a member of a much larger group of American citizens that's largely idle at the moment. Like I've mentioned, the ball is in your court and the fate of the Democratic party has been placed  in their own hands and that's the way it should be right now. Welcome to the 4T.

I have the faith (and you are welcome to call it arrogance) to believe that we Democrats have far more flexibility in meeting economic distress. Our idea of what America encompasses includes people who used to vote heavily Democratic in the latter part of the 20th century: poor white people in the Mountain and Deep South. If we win such people back because of some 21st-century equivalent of a New Deal or a Marshall Plan, then your Party stands to lose landslide elections. 

I want to see a revival of service as an objective of politics at the expense of identity. Identity politics, either way, are bad politics.

The plutocrats to which you (and this means Classic X'er) show political loyalty don't give a damn about poor white people in Appalachia. Well I do, dammit! Poverty for any large group of people serves the rest of us badly unless we be exploiters. Aside from the ethical disgrace of exploitation, it is not even good for survival. To be sure one can live well as an exploiter, but one can also see the exploited turning against one. Just think of Russia in 1917 or China or northern Vietnam in the late 1940's.

Social market (like contemporary, united Germany) or Socialist state (like the former DDR)? I'd rather have the former.

[Classic-Xer]

(01-28-2021, 12:09 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: I predicted a struggle to control what is left of the Republican Party.  There seem to be three factions:  Trumpism, the establishment and the true conservatives such as the Lincoln Project.  Originally, Trump had the Republican base voters and was using it to blackmail the rest of the party into line.  Shortly after the Capitol Insurrection I thought less of Trump’s faction.  A bunch of people were mad at them.

Now, the Trump faction seems resurgent.  The establishment is taking Trump’s ability to primary out elected officials seriously.  They seem ready to latch on to extremism to avoid this fate.

This seems a bad choice for the Republicans.  They might hold on to primary victories this way, but they still have to win the general election.  I don’t see the general population thrilled by extremism.  If the Democrats manage to attack to crisis problems decently and the Republicans become ever so extreme, the current extremely narrow political balance should head more the Democrat’s way.

As I told, there's not going to be much of a struggle when the vast majority of the Republican base supported Trump through thick and thin and damn near defeated the Democratic establishment without the full support of the GOP establishment. I don't know why you would think a more radical Democratic party would not be countered by a more radical Republican party these days. Lack of common sense or wishful thinking? I've heard the support for Trump among Republicans (primarily Republican women) has risen substantially since Biden has taken office and revealed his intentions. So, other than a Supreme Court that's useless since the Constitution is no longer recognized as the governing authority by the party in power, what is the American population's only option? Like I said Bob, you are on the wrong side of an impending conflict with all of America and all of its power. Unfortunately, you don't have enough decent/normal Democrats who have courage left in Washington DC these days. So, a violent conflict is pretty much inevitable. As I recall, American forces stood down and remained idle as Berlin was conquered by barbarians. So, how close are the Woke's to being like the Nazi's or Bolsheviks or any other political cult with its own ideas, way of thinking and way of doing things vs the American way these days?

[Eric the Green]

The Trump supporters are now knowingly committed to turning the USA into an authoritarian state in which elections are decided by the views of the current president, as long as that president is a racist xenophobe neo-liberal gun totin' religious fanaticism-supporting Republican con man.

The model for them is not only Trump, but Vladimir Putin, who has all the elite bought and paid for leaving the people with no means to assert any power. A Mafia-state run by a gangster. That's what the vast majority of Republicans want, including Classic Xer.