ACA Repeal/Replace: Progressives Face Moral Dilemma

[Eric the Green]

(03-01-2017, 01:18 PM)Marypoza Wrote:

(03-01-2017, 05:11 AM)Eric the Green Wrote:

(03-01-2017, 03:37 AM)Marypoza Wrote:

(02-28-2017, 01:15 PM)X_4AD_84 Wrote:

(02-28-2017, 12:48 PM)Bob Butler 54 Wrote: While the tread title gives the progressives a dilemma, it seems the Republicans have all sorts of problems too.  My feeling is that when Obama put together his health care plan, the Republicans cared more about making Obama and his efforts look really bad than they did about providing health care. As a result, a lot of their base thinks a lot of ideas which might be necessary to decent health care must be repealed.  Their base is ready to vote anyone out who doesn't agree.

Now, I agree Obamacare isn't perfect.  It needs to be tuned.  Hillary was right, though.  You start with as is and tune it rather than starting from scratch.  A good sized chunk of the Republican Base and the folks they elected won't be open to this.

It seems that the less ideological Republicans and the Democrats might have to work together.

Obama-care is essentially Romney-care 2.0.

Anyone on the Right or Left who cannot face this fact is in denial of reality.

I agree, make it better. Don't trash it.

-- this piss pos is standing in the way of true health reform. It needs to go

Unfortunately, if it goes, it will only be replaced by a private Republican system.Obamacare was

-- supposed to get rid of the single payor argument for good. "Oh look! We got this crap! Who needs single payor?"
The repugs will come up with something even more crappy, which will just beg for single payor

Maybe. Unless people were to say, we've got ACA, but it's not good enough; we need further progress toward single payer.

Quote:The most insidious thing about obummercrap, which nobody seems to want to talk about, is that it forces you to buy something whether you can afford to or not (which is why most folx have these crappy plans with sky high deductibles, so they are basically still fronting their own health care, except now they are also throwing away $x/month to the insurance companies, but l digress) This sets a dangerous precedent. For instance: a common item that many budget planners tell folx in need of budget help to cut is cable. Given these Owellian times we are entering, what if Big Brother, um l mean Congress passes a law that everybody is required to have cable/internet, whether they can afford it or not. Since most cable companies are also internet providers, well, big windfall dontcha think? What if ppl were required to have a phone, & not just your cheapo run of the mill phone, but say an i-shit? There was a thread awhile back where souped up hitech rides were being discussed & l said l would be driving under the radar in my beat up old school rides. M&L said no, l would be ride sharing, or hitching rides or some such, iow, l would not be allowed to drive my low tech old schools & neither would anybody else be allowed to drive theirs.  Keep in mind, nice cars, cable, i-shits.. like health care these are things most of us want, but not everybody can afford. Then Congress passes laws forcing everybody to buy them  

Which is why, even tho l would much rather see obummercrap razed to the ground, l would be happy if the Donald simply makes it optional. The ppl who are getting their refunds taken from them are the ones that need it the most

Eric Wrote: Given America's mindset, single payer may be decades away, at least. Unless the voters wise up in the 2020s.

-- single payer could emerge from the 4 T

Eric Wrote:Or, I suppose, since Medicare was passed in the 1960s, perhaps single payer will come in the late 2040s Awakening, when Uranus the rebel planet returns to Virgo the sign of health, where it was in the sixties.

Real progress is rare in America, so it's wise not to expect too much, and to settle for what we can get.

-- makes sense. The Millies, like the GIs are a civic generation, so once they are running things they will probably lower the Medicare age to 0, if it hasn't been already

The Donald does nothing right, ever, or at all. Or as George Carlin would say, he doesn't "care about you, at all, at all, at all!"

No, Obamacare cannot work without the mandate. Making it optional destroys the funding for it. The concept of pooled resources eludes Republicans and other Obamacare critics. That was what is supposed to bring costs down. But medicaid also brings costs down because otherwise healthcare providers have to pay these bills. Red states don't provide Medicaid, so that's where costs are rising the most, and naturally the ignorant red state voters can only see the rising costs and vote for their premiums to skyrocket instead of rising.

The Republican plan simply amounts to trying to reduce costs by covering fewer people. The effect will be rising costs for everyone who pays for it.

Health care is not cable TV; it's a necessity.

But yes, the late 2040s makes sense; I forgot to mention that the previous Uranus in Virgo time was when Medicare was passed in the mid-60s. Uranus also conjunct or opposite Pluto both times too, of course.