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I'm a sceptic that the 4th Turning started in 2008
It is difficult to see cycles within cycles. The generational cycle looks reasonably well established, but longer cycles just lack the data suitable for applying to the USA. I could easily apply the Toynbee pattern for our civilization, and it the vilest part is the stage of the Universal State, the stage in which one political entity establishes its hegemony and enforces norms that preclude dissent, innovation, and reform. That's about where the Roman Empire was around AD 300. The ruling elite becomes increasingly incompetent, arrogant, inflexible, and unimaginative.

Donald Trump fits the mentality well, but his position is unstable for what looks like the long term (as in the next Saeculum). When his type becomes the norm for some "Greater America"... who knows how long from now? 200 or 500 years?... then the game is nearly up for our civilization as it is about to crumble or offer easy conquest.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist  but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.


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RE: I'm a sceptic that the 4th Turning started in 2008 - by pbrower2a - 07-27-2020, 10:40 PM

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