09-13-2021, 12:18 AM
(09-12-2021, 09:29 PM)Eric the Green Wrote:How many lower income voters (white, black, brown ect) do the Progressives have a financial/personal hold over these days? How many union workers (government employee's and other union related employees) does the Democratic party have a financial/ personal hold over these days? How many workers associated with non profit organizations/small businesses and other interest groups reliant upon grants and other forms of government spending does the party have a financial/financial hold over these days?(09-12-2021, 01:15 PM)sbarrera Wrote: I'm more in agreement with David's perspective (neoliberalism is economically libertarian and socially liberal) than with Eric's (neoliberalism is the platform of Trump/GOP).
I see neoliberalism as supporting globalization, freedom of capital and labor movement, and multiculturalism - which Trump supporters oppose.
I will acknowledge that maybe the Patriot Party isn't "Real America," as described by George Packer in his article, but perhaps "Free America." Actually, I see both factions visible in the Trump voting bloc:
Free America: you can't tell me what to do! (Anti-maskers/anti-vaxxers/anti-lockdowners.)
Real America: we need to go back to when America was great! (White Christian nationalists.)
Surely the energy from both of these factions was present at the Jan 6 attack on the U.S. Capitol.
Again, far too much is made of Trump's views that are not neo-liberal on that one issue of trade. Trump is a nationalist, which is socially conservative. Neo-liberalism does not support multi-culturalism. Freedom of capital and labor movement, yes. Neo-liberals are aligned with social conservatives. There's just no way they can be called liberal on social issues. Maybe the Libertarian Party can be called that. But not neo-liberals, who are mostly Republicans. The Libertarian Party does not quite equal neo-liberalism. I can go with the idea that a relatively few neo-liberals are not passionately prejudiced or socially conservative. No political box can contain absolutely everyone. But the best we can say about them is that they are neutral, or don't care; not liberal. Given their strong agreement on welfare spending, neo-liberals and social conservatives are natural allies, and they vote the same way. I don't see how anyone can ignore that.
Calling the anti-vaxxers etc. "free America" is to buy into their tragically-false narrative. It is liberals and social liberals who uphold freedom, civil rights, voting rights, democracy, free speech and press. Trump anti-maskers do not support any of those things, and certainly their leader does not. And "real America" is far too complimentary a term for social conservatives. There is nothing real about superstition and prejudice.
There's just no way to cut through the polarization and divide by trying to assign some ideas that real liberals might sympathize with to the other side. No, one side is right, and the other side is wrong. One side needs to win, and the other side needs to lose. We are 4T and we can't go back. We have to fight it out the best way we can.
If people want to say "be civil," I understand. A few people from the wrong side can be peeled off, and not by me calling them wrong. I understand. But that does not mean we can weasel our way out of the divide and the real problems by glossing over them.
The Republicans don't have that luxury. The Republicans don't have a major hold over its based and they don't have the luxury of being able to continue fucking up and advancing/promoting morons either. You'll disagree as usual but social democracy or democratic socialism is weakening the integrity and destroying democracy as we speak. America isn't going to sit around and allow the Democratic gravy train/clown show to continue. You are going to start seeing obvious signs of a national split. Once it begins, there's nothing that you or the Democrats are going to be able to do to stop it. Since the Democratic side is mainly city related and heavily reliant open the rest of the country for food, supplies, tax revenues and so forth, the Democrats are going to find themselves being bent over a barrel pretty kick. You just witnessed another prelude of what's to come. Did the recent fall of Afghanistan look like fun? You just wait and see what happens in your neck of the when America withdraws from Acirema. It's going to be a shit show.