09-13-2021, 09:42 AM
(09-13-2021, 02:22 AM)Classic-Xer Wrote:(09-12-2021, 09:09 AM)David Horn Wrote:(09-11-2021, 04:38 PM)Classic-Xer Wrote: I'm not a Neo Liberal. I'm a Classical Liberal.
Yes, I agreee. You are an economic libertarian and a social conservative. That means that the ones with the gold make the rules, in your view at least. In my opinion you shouldn't cling too tight to that view. It may prove toxic.
I assume that you believe that ones who have no gold or want more gold from others should be the ones who make the rules instead. Or, those who represent them should be the ones who make the rules.
You miss the point of my citation of the late oil billionaire H. L. Hunt, who said
I believe in the golden rule: he who owns the gold makes the rules.
That is a citation to mock. That is the reality behind power under a feudal order or in the slave system of the ante-bellum South. Those who own the assets have all the power to exploit and brutalize the helpless people who have no stake in the system and no means of self-defense. We are talking about the sorts of leaders who burn to death anyone who stages a peasant rebellion or a slave revolt. Supposedly we are above that, but plutocrats of all times have never reliably shown any collective decency. We need some measure of democracy to mitigate the power of ownership over helpless people if we are not to resort to a revolution to bring about a Socialist regime of the Marxist-Leninist type.
The essence of democracy is the separation of power from owning the assets, commanding the troops, administering the police, or leadership in some Party apparatus. In an extreme tyranny such as Stalin's Soviet Union, the leader of the Communist Party has control of the police, the military, and the state-owned economy. Under such a regime no life is safe. In an extreme tyranny such as Nazi Germany in which the Government differed from Stalin's Soviet Union in which the State does not own everything, ownership and operation of the assets is a privilege to be taken away should the owner or manager offend the regime. In Saudi Arabia, the House of Saud owns practically everything including the precious mineral rights and allows practically no political life. Every soldier and police official knows to whom he is ultimately responsible, and that person's surname is ibn-Saud. We know how that works.
Our system decided that property rights were one defense against tyranny, as kings were typically taking land from opponents and giving it to their flunkies at convenient times to themselves. Government was not to take away small businesses at will unless for necessary public purpose (such as building a military base or establishing a post office or school, and then only with worthy compensation. So should the state of Minnesota start looking at some farmland close to US 12 west of the Twin Cities to be transformed into Interstate 92 which would be a more direct route between Minneapolis and Seattle and you own that farmland, you might not be able to stop the seizure, but you will be compensated for your loss.
But this said, we never established an order in which the biggest magnates of landed estates or giant industries got representation and the rest did not. In practice,
He who owns the gold makes the rules
applies when the richest and most powerful people are able to dominate what has become the most important aspect of American political life: campaign finance. When those rich and powerful people become exceedingly ruthless and cruel, and when they can reliably find pols delighted to do their bidding out of a quest for some measure of fame that they could never get for lack of athletic, musical, literary, or artistic skill who can get elected due to the well-funded and well-managed campaigns behind them, then they do not need to run a football like Barry Sanders, create lyrics like those of Bob Dylan, or paint like Norman Rockwell did. They can be complete @ssholes nearly the opposite of us who must suffer with a smile in our employment. In return they live extremely well.
Quote:So, whose gold are you talking about? Are you talking about the rich peoples gold, my gold, the neighbors gold or all of the gold? It's funny, other peoples gold doesn't matter to us but our gold seems to matter so much to you guys these days. So, what's the problem on the Democratic side? Ain't there enough gold on the Democratic side these days? Are there to many people on the Democratic side who have no gold these days? Are the ones in charge of distribution taking to much for themselves, their family members, friends and political contributors? I suggest that you get your mind out of the LW gutter, it may prove toxic and possibly end your life faster than you'd prefer. We've already seen what the Left can do, wait til you see what all we can do in return when the time comes.
H.L. Hunt spoke figuratively, and not literally, about gold. Owning an ounce or two of gold makes one no more powerful than someone who owns a big share of some public utility that the government only pretends to regulate, but allows to do whatever it wants in setting rates. On my (Democratic) side we believe in the popular vote under the constraints of decency that we associate with the Constitution (as in no lynching, no expropriations of assets, or the like) that we find useful in stopping the worst tendencies in human nature from becoming public policy as in Stalin's Soviet Union, Nazi Germany, or Iraq under Satan Hussein.
Most people are intent on fair pay for their work, and most people know by now that a nursing home will eventually devour any potential inheritance that remains after death. You may see a Democratic gutter -- but your GOP gutter is now far worse. Your Party needs to discover that Humanity is not reliably a mass of people lacking in impulse control, driven by greed and sex, full of anger easy to manipulate. Most of us know our limitations. Most of us want the Government to be as decent as we are ourselves, if not a bit more sophisticated at such things as law that few of us fully understand and capable of doing some things that we cannot do ourselves.
Quote:As far as the Democratic side goes, who has the bulk of the gold and who makes the rules on the Democratic side? The same group, it's the upper echelon on the Democratic side right. Do you see that as much with the Republican side? Keep in mind, the Republican side has seventy some million people who own gold. Do you have any idea how much of a loss the Democrats are going to take when America declares its independence and parts ways with Acirema?
The democratic idea is that he who has the votes through free and honest elections makes the rules, ideally with some empathy to voters.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.