12-12-2016, 03:09 PM
(12-12-2016, 02:33 PM)Kinser79 Wrote: brower2a
[quote pid='15102' dateline='1481506447']
"Alphabet Soup" admits that he used to be a neocon, and steadily went liberal as the neocon cause became increasingly objectionable. He left it not because it weakened; he left it because it began to become morally objectionable. That some are ex-Trotskyites demonstrates some of the appeal of neo-con ideology to the True Believer.
The Neo-Con ideology is itself an outgrowth of Trotskyism. They are applying the permanent revolution theory but for different reasons. As for Aphabet Soup himself, I perceive him as well meaning but ultimately very misguided.
[/quote]
Nobody is perfect. Nobody is perfectly prescient.
Quote:You having gone from supporting the legacy of Enver Hoxha to becoming a loud supporter of Donald Trump shows a lack of any thought-out principle. You can sell out a cause when it seems to be getting weak for one that seems in the ascendant.
Your diatribe about what is and is not a "True Believer" is mostly irrelevant. I still have a great deal of Respect for Stalin and yes even Enver Hoxha. I've actually used Marxism and the National Question recently in explaining national identities and how identity informs culture which of course informs politics. One of those nasty little Alt-Right theories as well.
The facts are clear. A Marxist-Leninist revolution is not going to happen in the US. The material conditions for such a thing simply does not exist, indeed it likely is not likely to exist. That being said, if they did exist, a hard line Robber Baron Republican would make a revolution likely. However, Trump is not a hard line Robber Baron Republican--which is what the opposition from the establishment Wall Street crowd clearly indicates.[/quote]
Well, at least I have no use for one of the biggest murderers of all time... or for any corrupt kleptocrat with sociopathic tendencies.
Quote:I live in a rural area. I have seen peaceful protests, but not the sorts that I want to join... Tea Party cultists and something by a LaRouche cult that protested in front of a post office with a picture of Barack Obama with a Hitler hairdo and mustache. I challenged that group with a little lie about my ethnic origin... basically because I had relatives who perished in the Holocaust (truth be told I probably had seventh-cousins or so perpetrating the Holocaust) I said that comparing Barack Obama to Adolf Hitler mocked the pointless suffering of my relatives. Those relatives might be fictional to me but they are all too real to some others.
Tell me how many tea partiers, as nasty as they are, have murdered police officers. Tell me how many tea partiers have caused riots. I'm not saying that I'm agreeing with them but BLM not they are fomenting racial hatred and division.[/quote]
As a liberal I know enough to stay away from them. I can't change their minds.
But just think of the new law in Ohio that practically criminalizes any abortion -- basically by outlawing any abortion as soon as a fetus is known to exist. I expect some protests... abortion-rights protesters might be strident, but no more so than the Tea Party.
This is my idea of how to challenge Donald Trump and his band of merry stooges
Quote:I expect Donald Trump to create plenty of issues on which I can find compatible groups to join -- labor rights, environment, reproductive rights, education, the rights of ethnic and religious minorities... If you thought that Barack Obama had trouble with the semi-literate people of the Tea Party, then just think what happens when liberals have bigger rallies and show more wit, erudition, and civility. Should someone seek to turn the protest into an excuse for a riot, then I might take some photos for use by local prosecutors. Smash a storefront window? Torch a car? Throw a brick? Assault a cop or a peaceful protester? Click. Click. Click... with the expectation that the rioter goes to the clink... clink... clink.
Were you to actually go to a protest on the left (which you won't because it would first require you to leave your house) you'd see that by far and away it is a highly radical minority which is behind those things. But it is almost always the left and not the right that has those issues. I should know I've spent most of my life on the left, and not just "I vote Democrat for X, Y, Z so I'm left" I mean the hard left.[/quote]
I am not Hard Left. I have had few opportunities for finding something worthy of protesting. I might soon have an excuse to go to Columbus, Ohio, about a three-hour drive from where I live.
Quote:Your mother and I are likely in agreement on that. Donald Trump's stated positions suggest a desire to turn race relations back at least fifty-five years and to turn labor-management relations back about ninety.
My mother is ignorant what is your excuse?
Donald Trump not only desegregates the country clubs he's bought out but also insists Jews be allowed in (and I know you have hard on for Jews). It is a point of business policy of his going back decades. Not only that he's hired hundreds if not thousands of blacks and latinos. The man is not a racist, and because his actions speak for themselves he feels no reason to justify himself to others. Tell me how many country clubs you've desegregated, how many blacks and latinos have you hired.[/quote]
I'm not a business owner. But there are people who believe that business freedom includes the right to discriminate.
Donald Trump used racist rhetoric in his campaign speeches.
Quote:We are in the penultimate stage of the Crisis -- the time in which history accelerates. Seventy-five years ago the Axis powers were kicking the Allies everywhere. Seventy years ago most of the major Axis figures were either dead or on trial for their lives. We have been on pause because we have had leadership good enough to avoid making catastrophic mistakes but not good enough (or politically strong enough) to force a decisive and satisfying end to the Crisis.
No we've been on pause because we've not had leadership at all. We've had status quo democrats blocking the GOP and status quo GOP blocking the current president. The break needs to come off so we can finish this. I'm tired of this turning, and if it takes Trump burning the country to the ground to do that great. If he instead makes America great again then great.
At this point I don't care, I just want the play button pressed. I'd like to have a 1T to enjoy before I'm senile.[/quote]
We have had gridlock that has prevented either a decisive and positive resolution or an attempt to force the issues in an apocalypse. Now that America is about to be ruled by people in lockstep, people who believe that no human suffering is in excess so long as it creates high profits or high executive compensation, we are about to reap the whirlwind.
Quote:This 4T may be more like 3/4 over. At this stage I can see similar probabilities of a salubrious ending or a horrific ending of this Crisis. We are going to see domestic strife as we have never seen before. We are going to hear invective that we will shield children from after the Crisis.
Quote:In the film Zero Generation they place the start of the 4T some where in 2008. I've always placed it in 2005-2006 with Katrina. (The big K demonstrated that the status quo isn't working and can't work and changed the mood of at least the South, if not the country.)
As it stands if we take the 2008 as the start that means that we're 8 years, almost 9 years into the 4T. 9 years into the last one was 1938, the one before that was 1859. I've said repeatedly this past election that Trump's election reminds me the most of Lincoln's.
If the following things happen there will be a civil war, you can bank on it:
1. Trump is assassinated before he takes office.
2. The Electoral College attempts to subvert the clear will of the people through faithless electors.
3. Congress when they count the votes on 6 January 2017 pull a stunt to put in Paul Ryan or some other "compromise candidate" into the Oval Office.
All of the running around about Russian agents and fake news and etc is the powers that be in panic mode because no one believes them, no one trusts them, and Trump is going to end their power.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3SLtP10NQ8
I recommend watching the film. I'm told that Bannon had a hand in it, and that he subscibes at least some what to S&H theory.
I concur on Katrina. But one other form of Civil War is a Dirty War in which the Establishment sets the police and armed forces loose to stifle dissent, if necessary with mass murder as in Chile under Pinochet. I can imagine America becoming a fascist oligarchy in which the key to survival is to play dumb, work to exhaustion for near-starvation pay, be satisfied with moronic entertainment as the Opiate of the Masses, and praise the Great and Glorious Leaders and those around him.
One can read just about anything that one wants into the S&H theory. History has shown elsewhere that anything is possible in a 4T -- much of it horrible.
The ideal subject of totalitarian rule is not the convinced Nazi or the dedicated Communist but instead the people for whom the distinction between fact and fiction, true and false, no longer exists -- Hannah Arendt.